NY - Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein confidante, arrested on Sex Abuse charges, July 2020 #2

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tayaway said:
VRG recruited other underaged girls for JE:

Daily Beast 2019

Eventually, she said Maxwell trained her to recruit new girls for Epstein.

“Jeffrey was very particular in the kind of girls he wanted. First off, the younger the better.”

Epstein said that to her, Giuffre claimed, and “Maxwell said that too. During the training and telling me how to do it, she said ‘You always have to go for the youngest-looking ones.’”

Giuffre said she reluctantly brought other girls to Epstein.

“It’ll always haunt me.”
Click to expand...
It was sooo obvious "a honey trap"! Primitive, granted, but effective.
MOO, of course :)
 
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tayaway said:
VRG recruited other underaged girls for JE:

Daily Beast 2019

Eventually, she said Maxwell trained her to recruit new girls for Epstein.

“Jeffrey was very particular in the kind of girls he wanted. First off, the younger the better.”

Epstein said that to her, Giuffre claimed, and “Maxwell said that too. During the training and telling me how to do it, she said ‘You always have to go for the youngest-looking ones.’”

Giuffre said she reluctantly brought other girls to Epstein.

“It’ll always haunt me.”
Click to expand...

Thank you for finding that.

Do we know if she did any of that when she was 18 and 19?
 
investikater said:
Thank you for finding that.

Do we know if she did any of that when she was 18 and 19?
Click to expand...

What does VRG's age have to do with it? When you're trafficked, you do what you're told. The law isn't 'well, she turned 18 or 19 in August, so she's clearly staying of her own free will now. Arrest her.' The FBI is aware of everything she's done. If they had a case against her, they'd have acted on it years ago.
 
tayaway said:
What does VRG's age have to do with it? When you're trafficked, you do what you're told. The law isn't 'well, she turned 18 or 19 in August, so she's clearly staying of her own free will now. Arrest her.' The FBI is aware of everything she's done. If they had a case against her, they'd have acted on it years ago.
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Sorry I'm still confused. I guess by where the line is between victim and perpatrator in these situations.

For example, if I take your definition of victim here, and follow it along a logical hypothetical;
then someone could be trafficked as a minor,
then have a 4 decade career as a trafficker as an adult,
and they would still be considered a victim because they were trafficked in the first place?
and never be prosecuted or sued for anything they did as a trafficker?

I guarantee you Ghislaine Maxwell's defence team have a backup plan-b defence strategy, and a sentencing strategy, where they claim she is a victim.
 
You might strike a valid point here!
After all, GM met JE when she was the most vulnerable - after her beloved Dad died in suspicious circumstances.
 
investikater said:
Sorry I'm still confused. I guess by where the line is between victim and perpatrator in these situations.

For example, if I take your definition of victim here, and follow it along a logical hypothetical;
then someone could be trafficked as a minor,
then have a 4 decade career as a trafficker as an adult,
and they would still be considered a victim because they were trafficked in the first place?
and never be prosecuted or sued for anything they did as a trafficker?

I guarantee you Ghislaine Maxwell's defence team have a backup plan-b defence strategy, and a sentencing strategy, where they claim she is a victim.
Click to expand...

VRG turned 19 a few months before she went to Thailand and broke off all contact with JE/GM. She was under their control until that point. She did not escape and then become a sex trafficker after, so your example doesn't apply.
 
tayaway said:
VRG turned 19 a few months before she went to Thailand and broke off all contact with JE/GM. She was under their control until that point. She did not escape and then become a sex trafficker after, so your example doesn't apply.
Click to expand...
Besides, she had to endure their threats even in Australia.
 
tayaway said:
[...]Minor and adult women alike were afraid of JE/GM, for a variety of reasons including the fact that JE/GM were in close with various world leaders, royals, and operated with access to an absurd amount of money.[...]
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Yes I can understand that would be terrifying. You wouldn't know who you could trust.
 
Kemug said:
It's very telling IMO that on that trip to Thailand she fully intended to go back, she wasn't looking to escape. Such was the hold that JE and GM had on her. It was only because she met and fell in love with a young Australian man that she got out.
Click to expand...
So in your opinion;
if she hadn't met and fell in love with Robert Giuffre,
she would have - as an adult,
completed her massage training,
returned to Epstein and Maxwell,
and while doing so completed her assignment from them to traffick a young Thai girl on her trip back to the US?

Is that what you are saying? If I've misunderstood - could you please explain what you do mean?
 
tayaway said:
[...]
Giuffre said she reluctantly brought other girls to Epstein.
“It’ll always haunt me.”
Click to expand...
Doing something reluctantly, or being remourseful about having done so, doesn't necessarily mean that it was not a crime, nor that you necessarily shouldn't be held accountable
tayaway said:
[...]The FBI is aware of everything she's done. If they had a case against her, they'd have acted on it years ago.[...]
Click to expand...
Not being charged with a crime, doesn't necassarily mean you haven't commited one - although obviously the presumption of innocence is very important.
Epstein basically almost completely escaped justice after so many years of offending.
Maxwell has only relatively recently been charged.
So many poeple involved have not been charged with anything nor sued.
tayaway said:
What does VRG's age have to do with it?[...]
Click to expand...
Because the things you do are legally different when you are a minor vs when you are an adult.
 
investikater said:
Could Giuffre nee Roberts have an alterior motive for her sex crime/trafficking/slavery campaigning and advocacy work?

Could she have set out to publicly establish herself firmly as a victim, so as to make it difficult;
for law enforcement to charge her with her participation in trafficking as an adult,
or for anyone to sue her for her participation in trafficking as an adult?
Click to expand...
Given Epstein's pattern of offending I think it's very easy to believe VRG is a victim of sexual abuse from the age of 15, and spent a few years at an impressionable age in an environment where this offending was normalised. She's always been treated as a victim by LE, even before her campaigning work. Just because Epstein was operating at the higher end of the trafficking industry doesn't make it less impactful on victims.
 
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Legally Bland said:
Given Epstein's pattern of offending I think it's very easy to believe VRG is a victim of sexual abuse from the age of 15, and spent a few years at an impressionable age in an environment this offending was normalised. She's always been treated as a victim by LE, even before her campaigning work. Just because Epstein was operating at the higher end of the trafficking industry doesn't make it less impactful on victims.
Click to expand...

VRG is not a POI or suspect nor is this thread the place for implying/suggesting she is. Our culture is built on a system of victim blaming. I for one, am tired of standing up for victims. What can we do to change the constant accusations against victims? edited: horrendous grammar
 
investikater said:
Mountbatten-Windsor doesnt seem to have his own thread so i wasnt sure it was correct to start a seperate one for Roberts-Guiffre



I get where you're coming from.

It's not my intention to blame Guiffre for what happened to her.

What keeps niggling at me are the things Guiffre did to others.

To other girls who were younger than her.

The things she did when she was a kid as well; No, that's not her fault.
But when SHE was an ADULT and THEY were KIDS... I'm struggling a little with who is to blame for that.

It's not that I can't see how it would have happened, or feel no compassion for her.
I understand grooming and normalisation happens. It's evil.

But lots of people who do terrible things, also have had horrible childhood experiences themselves.
Child sex offenders are sometimes former child victims of sexual abuse. But they are still held accountable for the things they have done to others.
Should we stop doing that? Should we consider them victims too?
Click to expand...

Per LE, POI PA is a person of interest, VRG is not. This forum does not allow victim blaming. eta: As already noted, once a victim becomes an adult, they do not automatically stop being a victim when still in that specific power dynamic. If you wish to label VRG a perp, there are plenty of other forums out there, like reddit, to participate in.
 
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investikater said:
Mountbatten-Windsor doesnt seem to have his own thread so i wasnt sure it was correct to start a seperate one for Roberts-Guiffre



I get where you're coming from.

It's not my intention to blame Guiffre for what happened to her.

What keeps niggling at me are the things Guiffre did to others.

To other girls who were younger than her.

The things she did when she was a kid as well; No, that's not her fault.
But when SHE was an ADULT and THEY were KIDS... I'm struggling a little with who is to blame for that.

It's not that I can't see how it would have happened, or feel no compassion for her.
I understand grooming and normalisation happens. It's evil.

But lots of people who do terrible things, also have had horrible childhood experiences themselves.
Child sex offenders are sometimes former child victims of sexual abuse. But they are still held accountable for the things they have done to others.
Should we stop doing that? Should we consider them victims too?
Click to expand...
The most important thing is that VG broke this viscious circle as soon as she could (at 19) and started a normal, law- abiding life.
 
investikater said:
So in your opinion;
if she hadn't met and fell in love with Robert Giuffre,
she would have - as an adult,
completed her massage training,
returned to Epstein and Maxwell,
and while doing so completed her assignment from them to traffick a young Thai girl on her trip back to the US?

Is that what you are saying? If I've misunderstood - could you please explain what you do mean?
Click to expand...

I have no idea what would have happened, I am only saying what did happen (as I have read.)
 
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Estelle said:
VRG made a fresh start in December, 2020 moving from Cairns to Perth in Australia.

Jeffrey Epstein sex victim Virginia Roberts moves to $1.9million Ocean Reef, Perth home with family | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...
tayaway said:
What is the point of restating this info about VRG's current financial status? Is this subtle victim blaming again? Victims are entitled to settlements and reparations.
Click to expand...

I won't read too much into the new house personally.

The property market in Australia is INSANE.

$1.9milAUD will get you a fairly modest house in parts of the southern capitals.

Perth isn't as hot (but heating) and they came from Cairns which is heating up too.
If they sold an average home they owned or mostly owned in Cairns, that would have paid a substantial amount of it.
'Safe paradise' desire sees Cairns house prices tip into millions

Beach property is more rare and valuable like most places, but it looks like it's one house back from beach-front so not as pricey.

Also you can get big mortgages here if you have a job and a deposit. (though not as big as in the US!)

Plus I don't know what the husband does for a living. Nor what Guiffre does for a living. They're old enough to have worked and saved quite a lot.
 
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