Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #11

[ana]

Thank you for sharing the information,
he wouldn't have it by default according to the wikipedia article.
Even if the 10 year counted from when the law was applied april 2003 we're past that 10 year mark now.

Almost all government employees are required to give up their dual citizenship to the best of my knowledge.

BBM
Haha, yeah. I found out that gov employees had to give up the hard way. I lost mine 9 years ago.

 

[Abigail]

I remember when my mom was trying to become a permanent US resident she had to agree to not have dual citizenship in a foreign country, this was back in the 90's, I don't know if this is still standard practice though.

Also for some security clearances you have to give up any dual citizenship's for a foreign country. I know that some tech jobs work with the government and require employees to pass certain security clearances.

*fingers crossed* that he may have had a security clearance or had to sign the same documentation as my mother giving up the dual citizenship if he even has it.

Do we know for a fact that he has dual citizenship?

Edited to add if he was born in the Netherlands, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law#By_naturalisation


So he probably doesnt have it by default.

Ok, so not having Dutch citizenship limits his options to Canada, Mexico and Carribbean -- still too many options for my comfort -- especially since he could easily take the children with him. He still can be considered a flight risk.

Not to mention the fact that an accused murderer should not be roaming free in society. Living next door to his victims. Perhaps even having 3 of his victims in his own house.

Does anyone have contact information for Judge Revoir? It doesn't appear he's been doing anything with his FB page since getting elected.

 

[zwiebel]

I fell asleep last night wondering about that strange remark by the DA that Jennifer slept naked and was found naked. As though she may have been killed while in her bed. But we know she chatted briefly online with Pob that morning. And suddenly a thought occured to me;

I think it may be possible Pob had a chat with Ganesh Ramsaran that morning, not Jennifer. Chilling, if that's the case.

If a record of 'Jennifer's' half of the conversation still exists, there may be unusual phrases or spellings that would indicate it might not be her.

I realize this would leave the children as the only witnesses that Jennifer was alive that morning. I hope the judge deciding bail conditions does too. That would make it even more important that they are not returned to their father's 'care' if he is released.

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you for the explanation I appreciate it.

I would assume a main suspect of such a crime can't just get his children back untill he is either cleared or have served his time and gets out.

It's insane a main suspect in a murder case can just wait for his trail at the comforts of his own home.

On top of that he is suspected of killing the mother of their children so I would also assume that the authorities understand the risk this man poses for his own family.

So we're basically making an assessment of his flight risk?

Yes, exactly what we are trying to do. And also where he might go if he does suddenly vanish.

I am very surprised about the difficulty in extraditing people from the Netherlands to the US. I had no idea this was the case, and of course this would be a perfect country for the husband to flee to as he's very familiar with it. He probably has relatives and friends there too.

But it's established now he can't be a Dutch citizen anymore, so I presume that option is closed to him, at least.

 

[ana]

Here is to hoping he is as broke as I suspect. According to those court judgements against him his owed money to someone at some point, hopefully it affected his credit, so he is not able to pull funds from a credit card or something to try and leave.

 

[upstatelaura]

I need to ask a silly question, what does pob stand for?

 

[ana]

I need to ask a silly question, what does pob stand for?

Username of a user that used to play a game with her.


IMO, I honestly believe that it was not her. I dont believe the children spoke to her, they may have seen her but I dont think she was alive, due to the misleading information we were given about her clothing, hair color, etc.

 

[sleepinoz]

Username of a user that used to play a game with her.


IMO, I honestly believe that it was not her. I dont believe the children spoke to her, they may have seen her but I dont think she was alive, due to the misleading information we were given about her clothing, hair color, etc.

Ana - just wanted to say I love your signature - :floorlaugh:

 

[fringles]

I think it's possible it wasn't Jen who was online that morning, but also possible that it was, and that that doesn't preclude her having been killed before she got dressed. Pathetic as it may be, one of the first things both Mr Fringles and myself do when we wake up in the morning, before we get out of bed, is hop on our phones - it's entirely plausible to me that she was online before she got up.

Alternatively, I've always thought the whole hair dye thing was bizarre. In hindsight, it looks like he planned very early to try quite hard to make it look like she ran off - I can easily imagine him insisting 'put that she might've changed her hair colour on the poster'. But I wonder if it was also an idiotic attempt to cover for something. The later rumour that GR claimed not to have been in Jen's bathroom until some time after she went missing, as well - very odd. I wonder if something happened while she was taking a shower, or the bathroom was where the murder occurred. Many dyes contain fairly strong chemicals - perhaps GR thought if he splashed dye around the bathroom it would cover evidence, and that then he could use it as an example of why he thought she had left.

 

[Abigail]

I fell asleep last night wondering about that strange remark by the DA that Jennifer slept naked and was found naked. As though she may have been killed while in her bed. But we know she chatted briefly online with Pob that morning. And suddenly a thought occured to me;

I think it may be possible Pob had a chat with Ganesh Ramsaran that morning, not Jennifer. Chilling, if that's the case.

If a record of 'Jennifer's' half of the conversation still exists, there may be unusual phrases or spellings that would indicate it might not be her.

I realize this would leave the children as the only witnesses that Jennifer was alive that morning. I hope the judge deciding bail conditions does too. That would make it even more important that they are not returned to their father's 'care' if he is released.

Actually, if I recall correctly -- she didn't chat with POB -- because they weren't playing the same game at that time. She (or someone with her ID) either played her Camelot game a little bit that morning and/or chatted with someone other than POB (and that was relayed to POB).

POB said that some of her postings had been deleted. Just like a lot of stuff Jennifer had online was deleted. He even tried to delete her little stories she had posted to her writer's club (that didn't happen -- they were still there, last I looked).

Do we know for certain that the children saw and/or spoke to Jennifer that morning? What I recall from the Sheriff's statement back in December was that it was a "normal" morning (or something). But a "normal" morning in many households includes one of parents having a bit of a sleep in from time to time. So...maybe there was something about that I have missed? Maybe it's time to go back and look at the old threads again -- there's some in late January and February I haven't reviewed since February.

I agree that the children's testimony as to whether or not they saw Jennifer alive that morning would be crucial. I hadn't considered that aspect, and it's quite chilling. I do hope the Judge takes this into consideration -- that the DA brings it to his attention!!

 

[ana]

Actually, if I recall correctly -- she didn't chat with POB -- because they weren't playing the same game at that time. She (or someone with her ID) either played her Camelot game a little bit that morning and/or chatted with someone other than POB (and that was relayed to POB).

POB said that some of her postings had been deleted. Just like a lot of stuff Jennifer had online was deleted. He even tried to delete her little stories she had posted to her writer's club (that didn't happen -- they were still there, last I looked).

Do we know for certain that the children saw and/or spoke to Jennifer that morning? What I recall from the Sheriff's statement back in December was that it was a "normal" morning (or something). But a "normal" morning in many households includes one of parents having a bit of a sleep in from time to time. So...maybe there was something about that I have missed? Maybe it's time to go back and look at the old threads again -- there's some in late January and February I haven't reviewed since February.

BBM

This is the thing that bothered me the most.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just wanted to add something about citizenships … multiple citizenships are possible (not just dual).

I know a person who has:

US citizenship/passport – born in the US with a US father, so automatically granted and not revoked when other citizenships were attained (due to ½ US blood)
British citizenship/passport – was granted British citizenship, upon application at birth, based on maternal grandfather’s British citizenship (British bloodline of mother)
Australian citizenship/passport – now lives in Australia and became a naturalised citizen some years ago

This person was not required to give up any of these citizenships at any time.

If GR’s parents held other citizenships (Indian?) when he was born, GR could have also attained their citizenship due to his bloodline.

Apparently, no matter what today’s policies are or how policies may have changed, they do not take away other existing citizenships if past laws allowed them.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that GR could still have two citizenships - Dutch & something else/US & something else

 

[sleepinoz]

Actually, if I recall correctly -- she didn't chat with POB -- because they weren't playing the same game at that time. She (or someone with her ID) either played her Camelot game a little bit that morning and/or chatted with someone other than POB (and that was relayed to POB).

POB said that some of her postings had been deleted. Just like a lot of stuff Jennifer had online was deleted. He even tried to delete her little stories she had posted to her writer's club (that didn't happen -- they were still there, last I looked).

Do we know for certain that the children saw and/or spoke to Jennifer that morning? What I recall from the Sheriff's statement back in December was that it was a "normal" morning (or something). But a "normal" morning in many households includes one of parents having a bit of a sleep in from time to time. So...maybe there was something about that I have missed? Maybe it's time to go back and look at the old threads again -- there's some in late January and February I haven't reviewed since February.

I agree that the children's testimony as to whether or not they saw Jennifer alive that morning would be crucial. I hadn't considered that aspect, and it's quite chilling. I do hope the Judge takes this into consideration -- that the DA brings it to his attention!!

Pob's post about that morning - note that it doesn't say who's morning UK or USA

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #7

 

[zwiebel]

I think both scenarios are feasible. That Jennifer sat in bed with a cup of tea or coffee and had a quick chat online, or that someone else impersonated her.

As for the children verifying Jennifer was alive that morning - I never commented on that before because all I could think of was the position they were in, and who was in that position with them. I was very worried about them. It's a different story now and I'm satisfied they are free to speak without fear, and they will be allowed to do so. Perhaps already have.

*Didn't we have that conversation with Pob about European v US time zones?

 

[Foxfire]

Actually, if I recall correctly -- she didn't chat with POB -- because they weren't playing the same game at that time. She (or someone with her ID) either played her Camelot game a little bit that morning and/or chatted with someone other than POB (and that was relayed to POB).

POB said that some of her postings had been deleted. Just like a lot of stuff Jennifer had online was deleted. He even tried to delete her little stories she had posted to her writer's club (that didn't happen -- they were still there, last I looked).

Do we know for certain that the children saw and/or spoke to Jennifer that morning? What I recall from the Sheriff's statement back in December was that it was a "normal" morning (or something). But a "normal" morning in many households includes one of parents having a bit of a sleep in from time to time. So...maybe there was something about that I have missed? Maybe it's time to go back and look at the old threads again -- there's some in late January and February I haven't reviewed since February.

I agree that the children's testimony as to whether or not they saw Jennifer alive that morning would be crucial. I hadn't considered that aspect, and it's quite chilling. I do hope the Judge takes this into consideration -- that the DA brings it to his attention!!

RE: Actually, if I recall correctly -- she didn't chat with POB -- because they weren't playing the same game at that time. She (or someone with her ID) either played her Camelot game a little bit that morning and/or chatted with someone other than POB (and that was relayed to POB).
BBM for Focus,,

Simply count the number of I's or ME's in her replys...

 

[ib3x]

Yes, exactly what we are trying to do. And also where he might go if he does suddenly vanish.

I am very surprised about the difficulty in extraditing people from the Netherlands to the US. I had no idea this was the case, and of course this would be a perfect country for the husband to flee to as he's very familiar with it. He probably has relatives and friends there too.

But it's established now he can't be a Dutch citizen anymore, so I presume that option is closed to him, at least.

It is even if he would have been extradited it would be under the strict condition that the US would allow him to serve his time in the Netherlands if he where to be extradited and convicted so he would serve his time in the Netherlands after being convicted which roughly translates into 20 year tops on paper minus one third of the sentence on good behavior so he would do about 13 years max.

Even if he doesn't have friends or family the Netherlands is a pretty low key country except for the tragedy of 6th of may, many major foreign criminals from other European countries flee to the Netherlands also because not many people bother you if you keep a low profile, also country borders are crossed in the Netherlands and Europe in general as easily as statelines are crossed in the States.

He can be a Dutch citizen again but he can't just flee to the Netherlands and expect the Dutch government to care about his rights because he has to apply and get approved for Dutch citizenship first, if he lost his citizenship with the new law regarding dual nationality that is.

But lets assume that his parents didn't give up his Dutch citizenship after they immigrated, they immigrated to Suriname first so who knows if he has gotten that nationality also I honestly can't tell, so they move to Suriname when he is 12, the law regarding dual citizenship changed in 2003 I don't know if it was in full effect at that time maybe it took a year of delay to implement that law or they give a year postponement untill 2004, to take care of their business and decide whether they want to make an effort to keep their citizenship, for every Dutch citizen who resided over 10 years in a foreign country.

He must have been notified somehow if he still had the dual citizenship that he was on the list of losing his Dutch nationality if he did not take proper action (assuming he still had one after they immigrated) I don't know if he just waived his citizenship or made an effort to somehow keep it, he worked for IBM that is an international company with many offices around the world I don't know if he ever made business trips or stays outside the States but for many laws there are exceptions or workarounds.

I don't know if there are any exceptions taken into consideration regarding the 2003 dual citizenship law.

Apoligies for the confusion but I can't find anything regarding that law in 2003 and the 10 year mark on the Dutch government site so I am in doubt and not sure how the law regarding dual nationality is exactly applied to each citizen I read on the site that they want to sharpen the dual nationality law only just since 2012 from what I read on the Dutch government site.

Dual citizenship:

Besides the Dutch nationality, you can have one or more nationalities. Sometimes you have to choose between the Dutch or the other nationality. A 2nd nationality to people who are born as a Dutchman, is no longer registered in the future in the population register.

I can translate the whole pages in coherent phrases if it is needed.

http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/nederlandse-nationaliteit/dubbele-nationaliteit

http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...rstel-strengere-eisen-voor-naturalisatie.html

 

[zwiebel]

ib3x, I think that's not correct. I think the parents were born in Suriname, they emigrated from there to Amsterdam. GR was then born in Amsterdam, and then the whole family emigrated to the US.

I think. Maybe other posters can correct me if wrong please?

ETA: Sorry, I forgot to quote your post.

 

[zwiebel]

One more quick thought - just looking at those arms of GR's. Hope we're not going to hear the old 'steroids made me do it' story.

 

[Bettylou4you]

Speaking of citizenship, I am working on my Chenango County citizenship so I can get on this jury!

 

[Bettylou4you]

One more quick thought - just looking at those arms of GR's. Hope we're not going to hear the old 'steroids made me do it' story.

I think GR poisoned her and thats what the autopsy tox report proved. He probably did it with meds though. His model seems to be fellow sicko Josh Powell. He was an overly controlling husband, kept the kids from her parents, had an affair in the months before she 'dissapeared', had a crazy alibi and now they say he poisoned SP's pancakes. If JR makes bail I wouldn't put the next scene past him of harming the children.