Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #12

[PAHouseWifey]

Upstate, It is likely that by just crossing paths with you may have been enough to help Jennifer. Sometimes just seeing a friend during a hard time is enough. You could not control the actions of the murderer.

 

[zwiebel]

Friends get caught in the fallout of failing marriages all the time - somehow ending up on one side or the other, even when they never intended to. It can be a source of great sadness and bitterness long after the marriage is over.

There is no norm for dealing with a friend's marriage that ends in murder though; I want to see the blame set squarely where it belongs - on the person who did this to Jennifer. If anyone else is found to be involved, I hope justice comes knocking for them too.

 

[Bettylou4you]

If someone sent the boxe(s) to her, how would Jenn even have known what was in the boxes if they were wrapped? Can we find out more about what JR and ES talked about regarding this?

 

[upstate]

If someone sent the boxe(s) to her, how would Jenn even have known what was in the boxes if they were wrapped? Can we find out more about what JR and ES talked about regarding this?

The last thing ES said to me was along the lines of, "blank on ws, is really blank. He has a wife and two kids and he is the one Jen had the affair with" ES also mentioned the shopping trip and how Jen couldn't stop talking about this guy from the internet, and "Jen had bought lingerie" is how I took what ES said, but she may have meant someone sent lingerie to Jen -- I start to doubt everything that was said in the beginning and I doubt ES is talking much now.

I didn't hear about wrapped boxes, I heard about lingerie, New with tags.

BTW, the person she mentioned has been verified -- I'm only repeating what ES said to me

 

[Amanda79]

Is it possible that as far as GR was concerned, Jen really didnt "know" of the affair... as in he didn't tell her and maybe he was narcissistic enough to think he would never get caught. However, Jenn had suspicians or knew for a fact and played it cool and kept a level head and had a plan (upcoming divorce lawyer meeting)... perhaps Jenn bought the lingerie for ES as a "gift". A way to let them know she knew. Kind of how upthread, Solus I believe, mentioned a convo where Jenn called ES GR's trophy wife. Just a thought.

 

[zwiebel]

I have to twist myself in knots trying to make any of it make any sense. I'm not questioning your words, upstate, I just can't see Jennifer confiding like that in someone she strongly suspected - at least - of having an affair with her husband.

I'm not doubting what you were told, just the truth of what you were told.

 

[zwiebel]

Did GR ever mention the husband in these conversations about the future - about what his reaction might be, and any problems girlfriend might have getting her own divorce/custody, etc?

 

[upstate]

I have to twist myself in knots trying to make any of it make any sense. I'm not questioning your words, upstate, I just can't see Jennifer confiding like that in someone she strongly suspected - at least - of having an affair with her husband.

I'm not doubting what you were told, just the truth of what you were told.

By that person being verified, I think it proves ES was at least partially wrong -- I just believe ES believes what she told me, or did at the time she told me -- I think I believe her anyway

 

[zwiebel]

GR telling Jennifer three times that he wanted a divorce, makes me think he orginally really did have the plan that Solus said he did - to start a new life after Christmas, and leave Jennifer free to start hers. He couldn't have known who she might tell, so it doesn't seem he could have wanted his intentions kept secret then.

But it looks like something went badly wrong with his plans at some point, and after Jennifer disappeared he didn't want the news that he had been trying to divorce her known. He wanted people to think she was the one who had strayed. I'd really like to know what it was that made GR think his divorce plans weren't going to work - whether it was Jennifer not budging about custody, money, or something else.

 

[zwiebel]

After Jennifer was found, I wonder if GR tried to retrospectively conceal his divorce plans to divert attention from ES, knowing questions about a divorce might lead to questions about the affair?

 

[Bettylou4you]

So there are 2 scenarios I see here:

Either Jenn was clueless ES was having an affair with GR and JR was smitten with someone on the internet and was confiding in a friend about herself (this will be revealed by computer and phone records if true; however irrelevant it is to the murder), or;

Jenn knew of the affair and was making ES squirm by describing basically the same thing, a married man with kids having an affair with a married woman with kids, knowing it would get back to GR that she knew what was up, or just to make ES uncomfortable.

What would be going through your head at that moment? Your friend describing an affair with a married man while you are having an affair with her husband? Pretty twisted in my mind. Enough to make ES go back to GR and tell him, (tell him what though, that Jenn knows about them or that Jenn is having an affair?) does this then cause a confrontation during which GR loses it and kills her? There is more motive here than I can even fathom, jealous rage, love triangle, betrayal, divorce….. if this is the circumstantial case GR thinks he can beat he is more delusional than I thought. Its textbook motive.

 

[Solus]

Jenn knew of the affair and was making ES squirm by describing basically the same thing, a married man with kids having an affair with a married woman with kids, knowing it would get back to GR that she knew what was up, or just to make ES uncomfortable.

I don't think the above was in Jen's character.

Either Jenn was clueless ES was having an affair with GR and JR was smitten with someone on the internet and was confiding in a friend about herself (this will be revealed by computer and phone records if true; however irrelevant it is to the murder), or;

What would be going through your head at that moment? Your friend describing an affair with a married man while you are having an affair with her husband? Pretty twisted in my mind. Enough to make ES go back to GR and tell him, (tell him what though, that Jenn knows about them or that Jenn is having an affair?) does this then cause a confrontation during which GR loses it and kills her? There is more motive here than I can even fathom, jealous rage, love triangle, betrayal, divorce….. if this is the circumstantial case GR thinks he can beat he is more delusional than I thought. Its textbook motive.

I'm not sure Jen was clueless, but may not have been positive. It is difficult to make that accusation if your not confident in how true it is.

GR was angry with ES at one point because ES didn't share some of the things she knew. He felt ES betrayed his trust. The shopping trip where Jen was checking out the cologne for example.

I favor the theory of Jen being smitten. Simply because a person that is smitten will display subtle changes. (Most lies have an element of truth to them.) A little pep in their walk so to speak. Maybe there was a slight change in her appearance as confidence is increasing.

 

[Sharoneonta]

I don't believe speculation about Jennifer's extramarital activity is up for discussion. It's making me rather uncomfortable...

 

[zwiebel]

Solus, did it seem to you that GR, while wanting to divorce Jennifer, was also jealous and possessive of her? Do you think he was checking up on her out of jealousy, or because he was trying to make a 'case' against her, for the divorce or other reasons?

 

[Jilllian]

I don't believe speculation about Jennifer's extramarital activity is up for discussion. It's making me rather uncomfortable...

i think it's showing the depths GR went to to paint jen in a negative light ~ another of all the lies he's told about her to deflect judgement of himself.
whether or not jen had an affair, and i believe she did NOT, is irrelevant.

 

[Jilllian]

As far as lingerie found in the house, I was under the impression it was found by GR and later reported? I don't think we have an answer as to where the lingerie came from and I don't think we will have that answer for a while.

Jen very well may have purchased the lingerie herself for GR and the sake of keeping her family intact

It appears to me GR went to great lengths to expose these otherwise seemingly innocent undies -- He wanted everyone to know these undies existed and how Jen probably got them from her supposed online lover she confided in ES about during their shopping trip.

RSBM, BBM

1. It was found after the police did their search, after GR allegedly waited 5 weeks to go into their master bedroom. This was the time her wedding ring was also found on her dresser, if I remember correctly. I believe it was also the time he found a prepaid VISA receipt and an envelope, as someone else mentioned. So for 5 weeks, he saw no need to go into his own closet to say, oh, i don't know, get himself some changes of clothing? Or, if they had separate closets, he did make sure to say that clothes were missing, as well as pills, which I'm assuming were also kept in the master bathroom. Speaking of bathrooms ~ who remembers the discussion about which bathroom she cut and colored her hair in? He found evidence of that. He insisted the police come right away, take the wrapped (or ribbon-tied, I can't recall), so that LE could catalog it as evidence. I think he was setting her up by producing the receipt of the prepaid card that he probably bought himself after police searched. I don't think police missed anything in the house, IMO.

2. As someone else mentioned upthread, I don't get why she would buy lingerie if she was losing weight so quickly. She was on a tight allowance budget, so why waste the money when she was in the process of working out and losing weight? I can see her buying lingerie for herself (let's face it ladies, it does make many of us feel pretty and girly, right?), but since she knew her marriage was on the rocks, and had made an appointment with a divorce attorney, why bother at that point? Seems like she was taking the first steps toward moving on.

3. I don't believe she bought it either, and the theory of her buying it for someone over the pond makes no sense. Most women receive lingerie from men, not gift it to men as gifts, right? And this guy was a gaming friend - surely she never planned on actually meeting him. Her priorities were her kids, and it seems to me that online gaming was just a distraction to pass the time (remember, she had quit or was forced to quit her job).

4. ES, IMO isn't credible at all. I wouldn't believe a word she says.

 

[Jilllian]

He felt ES betrayed his trust.

RSBM, BBM

Oh, the irony.

:facepalm:

 

[Abigail]

Like I have said before, the truth lays somewhere in the middle -- That is a lot of lingerie being found with the tags still on -- Where did the lingerie come from? Was it sent to Jen by someone else, like GR wants everyone to believe? Or all part of a premeditated murder? IMO, GR strategically placed a lot of lingerie wanting people to find it. The fact ES and Jen happen to go shopping the week before Jen was murdered and this particular lingerie was brought up in their conversations answers my question -- The more GR schemes, the more guilty he appears and he sure implicated ES a lot for someone he cares so much about -- I find it hard to believe the police aren't looking at her as a suspect

Well, it seems it wasn't meant to be discovered as a gift FOR Jennifer, but from. A receipt for purchase also found...and a postal receipt, it seems. I suppose the police had the forethought to fingerprint all those receipts and such. Wonder how many of those items had Jen's fingerprints on them?

But...this shopping trip the week prior...yes...that is something. Was wondering how GR suddenly developed psychic powers so as to know what Jennifer was shopping for, and for whom...how convenient to have his mistress take Jen on that excursion...and of course, that shopping excursion could be spun however one wanted...the lady is now dead, the companion under GR's spell.

I can't help but wonder how Jennifer even agreed to go out with the future "trophy wife." I did read in the old threads that the affair supposedly ended on Dec. 2 -- convenient that...

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

 

[Janeumayer]

Can someone remind me of the postal receipt and the relation to the lingerie? TIA

 

[Abigail]

Solus, did it seem to you that GR, while wanting to divorce Jennifer, was also jealous and possessive of her? Do you think he was checking up on her out of jealousy, or because he was trying to make a 'case' against her, for the divorce or other reasons?

That would certainly be in keeping with narcissistic injury, wouldn't it. One would think that a philandering husband would't be concerned with what his wife was up to. Apparently, some narcissists feel that their own behavior is inconsequential, but how dare the wife leave me or form affections for someone else?

But...it sounds almost as if GR was doing a lot of snooping...at some point. I mean, if I posted a package overseas, I'd stuff the customs receipt down in my purse. I certainly wouldn't leave something like that lying around the house (if it were something illicit on my part). But that purse would have gone with Jennifer out the door on her alleged shopping trip (accdg to GR's account). So...how was the receipt found?

I suspect Jennifer wasn't the one who posted the package.