Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 5

[Caring4Many]

His "Y Alibi" is for the day she went missing. And that he got a ride home from ES from the Y that day while his wife was off shopping for him..... makes me just sick to my stomach.

Looks like you were typing as I was...this both shocks & saddens me!

 

[Jilllian]

So, GR leaves @ 730am or thereabouts to take the kids to school. 15 minutes there and 15 minutes back... puts him back at 8am - he takes them if I recall as they'd be the first to be picked up in the morning if by bus, so a time saver for the kids to take them and so they don't have ride the bus for an hour- I get it.

Has it been discussed how the kids get home from school?? Do they ride the bus? Logic states they might since they'd be the first ones off on the route, but perhaps GR picked them up that day. Does anyone know? If they get home - probably around 3pm. Anyone know?

If so, that gives him 7 hours, minus the time he was @ the Y warming up.

They take the bus home. So, window of opportunity would NOT be from 10:30-3:00 as has been stated. The window of opportunity would have been form 8:00am-3:00pm. GR used 10:30 as the time he stated she left to go shopping at the mall.

Yes, that gives him 7 hours, minus the time he was at the Y, but not sure how the margin of error would fit in here, since there are holes in his alibi.

 

[enzeder]

I don't recall who said it-they were local. He was there the day she went missing & it was so out of routine they called LE once she went missing & offered tapes.

My question is how'd he get to the Y & how'd he get home? Well & what time was he there from & until.

BBM

I saw that post too.

 

[Jilllian]

No flyers up at apartments today where JR's van was found.
I could see where one was taken down though.

Handed flyers out to a group of people outside, and they said the car wasn't there for 5 days, as police have stated. One said "two days," one said "1-2 days." This is what people at that apartment complex have stated last weekend as well.

So, assailant hides the van for the first 2-3 days immediately following JR's disappearance, and then the van is moved to the apt. complex, with keys left in it, while the assailant hoped it would be stolen by someone who would ultimately be charged with a crime relating to JR's disappearance?

This looks like an almost clever set-up.

 

[Truman]

How much do you think police know regarding the "social media" aspect of this case? Do you think they know about the dueling Facebook pages? Our threads here on Websleuths? I'd like to think they follow everything, but realistically, would they have the manpower to do that?

I guess what I'm really asking is whether we should ever phone any of our observations or ideas in...what are everyone's thoughts on this?

PS A perfect example is Jillian's most recent experience at the apartment complex....
PPS Jillian, I can't thank you enough for your time and effort.

 

[enzeder]

No flyers up at apartments today where JR's van was found.
I could see where one was taken down though.

Handed flyers out to a group of people outside, and they said the car wasn't there for 5 days, as police have stated. One said "two days," one said "1-2 days." This is what people at that apartment complex have stated last weekend as well.

So, assailant hides the van for the first 2-3 days immediately following JR's disappearance, and then the van is moved to the apt. complex, with keys left in it, while the assailant hoped it would be stolen by someone who would ultimately be charged with a crime relating to JR's disappearance?

This looks like an almost clever set-up.

BBM

Thanks Jillian. Very interesting.

JR reported missing Tuesday, December 11, 2012 around 8-PM

JR phone found Wednesday, December 12th, 2012

JR car found Sunday, December 16, 2012

 

[Jilllian]

How much do you think police know regarding the "social media" aspect of this case? Do you think they know about the dueling Facebook pages? Our threads here on Websleuths? I'd like to think they follow everything, but realistically, would they have the manpower to do that?

I guess what I'm really asking is whether we should ever phone any of our observations or ideas in...what are everyone's thoughts on this?

PS A perfect example is Jillian's most recent experience at the apartment complex....
PPS Jillian, I can't thank you enough for your time and effort.

They do know about the two FB pages, and WS. Some read here, and also on FB. Not sure though if they just pop in and out, or if they read it regularly.

Personally, I think ANY tips or ideas should be brought to their attention, either via email, phone, or on their website. We might be making a mistake thinking they know something that hadn't found out yet (and I know this because I've made that mistake already).

 

[Caring4Many]

How much do you think police know regarding the "social media" aspect of this case? Do you think they know about the dueling Facebook pages? Our threads here on Websleuths? I'd like to think they follow everything, but realistically, would they have the manpower to do that?

I guess what I'm really asking is whether we should ever phone any of our observations or ideas in...what are everyone's thoughts on this?

PS A perfect example is Jillian's most recent experience at the apartment complex....
PPS Jillian, I can't thank you enough for your time and effort.

I think it's pretty safe to say they are one of the on average 15-20 "guests" we have here! :seeya: Hey guys! We're pulling for ya!

 

[OffRoadRunner]

Let's discuss that morning - hypothetically... (I wish it wasn't the case, but I think she never left the house alive)....

Let's say there was a fight or argument (over the affair) and JR was killed. How would she be moved? I would think not in the open. Covered with a blanket? Plastic? a Box? How big of material would be needed to cover a female weighing 170-190lbs.

I'm in agreement earlier that she wouldn't be transported "in the open" - or moved from house to vehicle / vehicle to hiding location without being concealed.

naked or clothed? We know the clothes, presumably the same clothes mentioned - just no shoes. If no clothes, how would someone dispose of clothes. The police did not search the home until over a week later. Regular trash removal? I wouldn't think left at home as the police might search right away - right?

I get 100lb bags of feed from our local feed store. These 100lb bags of feed are heavy and I can't imagine carrying two of them (about as clumsy as a 200 pounds of dead weight would be) very far. So I don't think she'd be far from where her van was taken.. if it was taken that day at all.... was their other van (GR's van) checked out? He had until like 8pm to go hide her van that evening. I also agree that she's close where he can keep and eye on where he put her.

Van might not have been where it was found until 3 days later... Where could someone hide her van without it being noticed? Moved at night?

Did LE subpoena his phone records? Where his phone was that day and night could very well be telling as well.

Did the kids go to school the next day? The rest of the week? Asking for a time question - as in where GR was from the next morning when he found her phone (again, were the kids in school?) all the way until Sunday (was it Sunday when JR's dad found her van?) as to his whereabouts??

Just Sleuthing out loud.

 

[SouthAussie]

No flyers up at apartments today where JR's van was found.
I could see where one was taken down though.

Handed flyers out to a group of people outside, and they said the car wasn't there for 5 days, as police have stated. One said "two days," one said "1-2 days." This is what people at that apartment complex have stated last weekend as well.

So, assailant hides the van for the first 2-3 days immediately following JR's disappearance, and then the van is moved to the apt. complex, with keys left in it, while the assailant hoped it would be stolen by someone who would ultimately be charged with a crime relating to JR's disappearance?

This looks like an almost clever set-up.

So where was the van hidden?

LnM say that Jen's parents headed right back from Az once they learned she was missing. If that is true, did they drive back? Were there a couple of days that the van could have been hidden in their garage?

Where did GR and ES meet for their tryst(s)? Some close and secret wooded area that they visited while 'running' together? A secluded enough place to leave a van for a couple of days?

 

[Caring4Many]

I'm sure this will be deleted soon, check this out-look at the first comment & who liked it.

https://m.facebook.com/MissingJenni...05600&wend=1362124799&ustart&__user=777057067

 

[nanasbabes]

wanted to let everyone know i did go to plank view manor apartments today at 9 am est and there was no sight of any of jennifers missing poster

Just an FYI - I called the apartment complex's office manager yesterday. I've been trying for 2 days but only get a machine.

I did leave a message as I wanted to ask, A. - can flyers be distributed? B- did they remove any? C. - would they know if the mailman/woman would leave them? D.- have they seen anyone removing them.

Still waiting on a call back..

I went there yesterday and wanted jillan to know they were not there then either

 

[Truman]

Embarrassingly basic question, but what does GR do? Was it normal for him to be at home or at the Y on a weekday morning?

 

[OffRoadRunner]

Embarrassingly basic question, but what does GR do? Was it normal for him to be at home or at the Y on a weekday morning?

Remote IBM Program Manager employee (works from home)

 

[enzeder]

<Mod Snip>
This post mentions calling the apartment complex too.

http://www.facebook.com/MissingJenniferRamsaran/posts/133247693511493

 

[Jilllian]

Let's discuss that morning - hypothetically... (I wish it wasn't the case, but I think she never left the house alive)....

Let's say there was a fight or argument (over the affair) and JR was killed. How would she be moved? I would think not in the open. Covered with a blanket? Plastic? a Box? How big of material would be needed to cover a female weighing 170-190lbs.

Plastic seems the best choice in terms of it not being able to transfer evidence as easily (ie. if a piece of my hair fell out onto it, it would be more likely to not be held by the plastic as it would be by a blanket, not to mention plastic helping mask obvious decomposition). Living in the country, notice how often crows circle above farmers' fields when they smell something? Ditto for sea gulls (not sure if there are any over your way). Would plastic prevent that?

Hypothetically, if she was killed in the home and not moved until dark, that seems risky. He would know the police would need a search warrant to get into the home, but still would be a bold move to keep her there while the police came to take a report. Unless the report was given at the station?

I'm in agreement earlier that she wouldn't be transported "in the open" - or moved from house to vehicle / vehicle to hiding location without being concealed.

naked or clothed? We know the clothes, presumably the same clothes mentioned - just no shoes. If no clothes, how would someone dispose of clothes. The police did not search the home until over a week later. Regular trash removal? I wouldn't think left at home as the police might search right away - right?

Still no answer to the question "What was she wearing on her feet?" Cold day, no snow, allegedly driving an hour to an hour and a half each way to/from mall, spending 4 or so hours walking. Past foot surgery. Can only speak for myself as a woman who likes shoes, but I would say no to heels for sure. Flat shoes or flat dress boots maybe. Or, if a crime was committed, no shoes at all? JR doesn't seem the type to be very into shoes, as least until "she changed." One post in the other thread (quoting MSM) said something like "She spent $300 all on herself." God forbid.

I get 100lb bags of feed from our local feed store. These 100lb bags of feed are heavy and I can't imagine carrying two of them (about as clumsy as a 200 pounds of dead weight would be) very far. So I don't think she'd be far from where her van was taken.. if it was taken that day at all.... was their other van (GR's van) checked out? He had until like 8pm to go hide her van that evening. I also agree that she's close where he can keep and eye on where he put her.

This is why I don't think she's far from a road (one heavily covered in mud.) GR is not a large man at all. No way he could carry anything that weighed 170-190 pounds. Drag, yes. Carry, no. But still not too far. Unless he had "help." I think she's close by, too.

Why 8:00pm to hide the van? Kids come home from school around 3:00. Or do you mean 8:00pm because that's when he called the police? If so, I get it.

Van might not have been where it was found until 3 days later... Where could someone hide her van without it being noticed? Moved at night?

Did LE subpoena his phone records? Where his phone was that day and night could very well be telling as well.

Could it safely have been hidden on private property of someone who either owns the property but doesn't live there? Private property of a snowbird? His own "other" property that just came to light a few days ago?

Did the kids go to school the next day? The rest of the week? Asking for a time question - as in where GR was from the next morning when he found her phone (again, were the kids in school?) all the way until Sunday (was it Sunday when JR's dad found her van?) as to his whereabouts??

Just Sleuthing out loud.

According to MSM, JR's dad found the van on Sunday.

 

[LolaAngelina]

I'm sure this will be deleted soon, check this out-look at the first comment & who liked it.

https://m.facebook.com/MissingJenni...05600&wend=1362124799&ustart&__user=777057067

Yep and notice who likes the last comment :waitasec:

 

[OffRoadRunner]

Plastic seems the best choice in terms of it not being able to transfer evidence as easily (ie. if a piece of my hair fell out onto it, it would be more likely to not be held by the plastic as it would be by a blanket, not to mention plastic helping mask obvious decomposition). Living in the country, notice how often crows circle above farmers' fields when they smell something? Ditto for sea gulls (not sure if there are any over your way). Would plastic prevent that?

Hypothetically, if she was killed in the home and not moved until dark, that seems risky. He would know the police would need a search warrant to get into the home, but still would be a bold move to keep her there while the police came to take a report. Unless the report was given at the station?



Still no answer to the question "What was she wearing on her feet?" Cold day, no snow, allegedly driving an hour to an hour and a half each way to/from mall, spending 4 or so hours walking. Past foot surgery. Can only speak for myself as a woman who likes shoes, but I would say no to heels for sure. Flat shoes or flat dress boots maybe. Or, if a crime was committed, no shoes at all? JR doesn't seem the type to be very into shoes, as least until "she changed." One post in the other thread (quoting MSM) said something like "She spent $300 all on herself." God forbid.



This is why I don't think she's far from a road (one heavily covered in mud.) GR is not a large man at all. No way he could carry anything that weighed 170-190 pounds. Drag, yes. Carry, no. But still not too far. Unless he had "help." I think she's close by, too.

Why 8:00pm to hide the van? Kids come home from school around 3:00. Or do you mean 8:00pm because that's when he called the police? If so, I get it.



Could it safely have been hidden on private property of someone who either owns the property but doesn't live there? Private property of a snowbird? His own "other" property that just came to light a few days ago?



According to MSM, JR's dad found the van on Sunday.

Plastic - Hmmmm... farmers here use plastic to wrap all their hay bales and sileage. There is a HUGE pile of plastic at that organic farm right out behind (across the creek) from the Plank Manor Apartments where her van was found. On the road up to Resevoir Hill that leads to the upper part of Moon Hill and Blackman road, there is a farm that has a ton of plastic all over it from old bales.

On Blackman Road and on Chan Aldrich roads out here in Plymouth, there are a few seasonal camps on that road (snowbirds) that has no one around right now..... a distance runner running our area would know the places where no one is around after a certain time, especially on "Seasonal" roads that are muddy! more things to think about.

 

[Truman]

I'm sure this will be deleted soon, check this out-look at the first comment & who liked it.

https://m.facebook.com/MissingJenni...05600&wend=1362124799&ustart&__user=777057067

Yep and notice who likes the last comment :waitasec:

Whoa...

I can't imagine how much her parents and extended family are suffering right now.

 

[Hexe]

Let's discuss that morning - hypothetically... (I wish it wasn't the case, but I think she never left the house alive)....

Let's say there was a fight or argument (over the affair) and JR was killed. How would she be moved? I would think not in the open. Covered with a blanket? Plastic? a Box? How big of material would be needed to cover a female weighing 170-190lbs.

I'm in agreement earlier that she wouldn't be transported "in the open" - or moved from house to vehicle / vehicle to hiding location without being concealed.

Definitely concealed, possibly wrapped in something. Bedsheets? They would be at hand, especially if the murder happened in the bedroom.

naked or clothed? We know the clothes, presumably the same clothes mentioned - just no shoes. If no clothes, how would someone dispose of clothes. The police did not search the home until over a week later. Regular trash removal? I wouldn't think left at home as the police might search right away - right?

I'd say dressed, possibly in her PJ, as there were some inconistencies about the clothes Jennifer wore when last seen.

I get 100lb bags of feed from our local feed store. These 100lb bags of feed are heavy and I can't imagine carrying two of them (about as clumsy as a 200 pounds of dead weight would be) very far. So I don't think she'd be far from where her van was taken.. if it was taken that day at all.... was their other van (GR's van) checked out?

I don't think he would risk putting Jennifer's body in his car. He wouldn't want any blood traces there. I believe also he wanted her car to be stolen so he didn't care much about the blood in Jen's van. He just didn't take into the consideration the possibility that the local thieves can fail his expectations.

Van might not have been where it was found until 3 days later... Where could someone hide her van without it being noticed? Moved at night?

Do GR or his non-mistress have any lodge or summer house somewhere in the woods? A handy place to hide the car and to bury the body. And, by the way a handy place to have some trysts. Both of them have families. Norwich and New Berlin are small towns so they could not rent a room in a hotel, cause they would bump into someone that knows either her or him (or both) and the secret affair (sorry, non-affair!) wouldn't be that secret anymore. So they needed a quiet place for their trysts, rrright?