Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 5

[cluciano63]

It is sad that so few showed up for the "event". Often vigils held for missing people in smaller towns attract hundreds of locals. Was it due to poor publicity for the event or distrust of GR? That part should not matter, as it meant to be for Jennifer. But he, and the group he has around him leave such a bad...taste. Perhaps people did not want to be seen as supporting their version(s).

 

[Londonrraine]

Welcome Bob's Chicken...Excellent first post and observations..

:sweep:

"Cleaning up the feathers!" :floorlaugh:

 

[Londonrraine]

It is sad that so few showed up for the "event". Often vigils held for missing people in smaller towns attract hundreds of locals. Was it due to poor publicity for the event or distrust of GR? That part should not matter, as it meant to be for Jennifer. But he, and the group he has around him leave such a bad...taste. Perhaps people did not want to be seen as supporting their version(s).

People need to keep their eye on what's important, and that is JENNIFER!
There's too much focus on the negative vibes out there, and that should STOP. Everyone local should really try to be out there, doing whatever they can, for Jennifer.

 

[cluciano63]

People need to keep their eye on what's important, and that is JENNIFER!
There's too much focus on the negative vibes out there, and that should STOP. Everyone local should really try to be out there, doing whatever they can, for Jennifer.

It might feel wrong though to go to an event associated with or approved by GR, at least for me. Almost seems like anti-Jennifer...

 

[momrids6]

Hope my very first post does not get me in trouble! LOL

:welcome6: :hen:

 

[Londonrraine]

So I'm sitting here stumped. I want desperately for Jennifer to be alive but the llikelihood of her leaving her babies and supporting herself for 3 month is is super unrealistic.

I feel so sad!! I know, I am such a softie but does anyone have anything positive to say I show she's alive?

Probably not. :-(

I wake up random at 3 am to check. Lame.


Jesus, hurry up forensics and phone records already.

Question, LMN and ES proclaim that there is more out there to substantiate her leaving or being ok. I beg that they release this info!

Given what we know, it would seem unlikely that Jennifer is somewhere out there, and okay. But, if I imagine Jennifer to be very loyal, sensitive and trusting, then I have to wonder how traumatic it might have been, to find out that her best friend was having an affair with her husband. The two people that, perhaps she trusted most in this world to betray her, could possibly have broken her heart so deeply that she did in fact up and leave.
I don't quite believe this is what occurred, but it is the only scenario I can imagine, in which I think she could be alive somewhere. I do think such betrayal could break a heart in two and send a person out of their normal state. It would tare me up inside, i'm sure.
My heart breaks for her, whenever I think of how she must have felt. And according to her cousin, Jennifer did know about this affair.

 

[cluciano63]

Given what we know, it would seem unlikely that Jennifer is somewhere out there, and okay. But, if I imagine Jennifer to be very loyal, sensitive and trusting, then I have to wonder how traumatic it might have been, to find out that her best friend was having an affair with her husband. The two people that, perhaps she trusted most in this world to betray her, could possibly have broken her heart so deeply that she did in fact up and leave.
I don't quite believe this is what occurred, but it is the only scenario I can imagine, in which I think she could be alive somewhere. I do think such betrayal could break a heart in two and send a person out of their normal state. It would tare me up inside, i'm sure.
My heart breaks for her, whenever I think of how she must have felt. And according to her cousin, Jennifer did know about this affair.

Yet if she was feeling hurt and vulnerable...where could she go? Who could she trust? I just hope she was not suicidal but I think she would have been found by now.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I think it's pretty safe to say they are one of the on average 15-20 "guests" we have here! :seeya: Hey guys! We're pulling for ya!

I second that!

Any and all LE and MSM reading these threads...

Thank you for your hard work in Finding Jennifer!

:gthanks:

 

[Londonrraine]

Yet if she was feeling hurt and vulnerable...where could she go? Who could she trust? I just hope she was not suicidal but I think she would have been found by now.

I wish I knew.... I am just throwing a possible scenario out there, that holds a sense of hope for Jennifer. LJ was looking for something positive, and this is what came to mind..
However, in my heart of hearts, this is not what appears to be the case, IMO. Foul play seems far more likely a scenario, and i'd like nothing more than to be wrong about that.
Where are you Jennifer?
Prayers for Jennifer & off to bed I go, night all :seeya:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Let's discuss that morning - hypothetically... (I wish it wasn't the case, but I think she never left the house alive)....

Let's say there was a fight or argument (over the affair) and JR was killed. How would she be moved? I would think not in the open. Covered with a blanket? Plastic? a Box? How big of material would be needed to cover a female weighing 170-190lbs.

I'm in agreement earlier that she wouldn't be transported "in the open" - or moved from house to vehicle / vehicle to hiding location without being concealed.

naked or clothed? We know the clothes, presumably the same clothes mentioned - just no shoes. If no clothes, how would someone dispose of clothes. The police did not search the home until over a week later. Regular trash removal? I wouldn't think left at home as the police might search right away - right?

I get 100lb bags of feed from our local feed store. These 100lb bags of feed are heavy and I can't imagine carrying two of them (about as clumsy as a 200 pounds of dead weight would be) very far. So I don't think she'd be far from where her van was taken.. if it was taken that day at all.... was their other van (GR's van) checked out? He had until like 8pm to go hide her van that evening. I also agree that she's close where he can keep and eye on where he put her.

Van might not have been where it was found until 3 days later... Where could someone hide her van without it being noticed? Moved at night?

Did LE subpoena his phone records? Where his phone was that day and night could very well be telling as well.

Did the kids go to school the next day? The rest of the week? Asking for a time question - as in where GR was from the next morning when he found her phone (again, were the kids in school?) all the way until Sunday (was it Sunday when JR's dad found her van?) as to his whereabouts??

Just Sleuthing out loud.

Many great points/questions!

1. I really do hope that GR's car was searched with a fine tooth comb, too!

2. I think the window of opportunity does stretch into the days following the day of JR's disappearance, too... There are some actions that could have been completed after that day... While kids were in school...

And steps of preparation could have been completed PRIOR to Jen's disappearance, too...(I.e.... Hole dug...etc.). If this is premeditated...

JMO

 

[BearAngel]

<modsnip>

I saw that too. Thinking from a different perspective:::::Jr sometimes seems to still be painted, with the same brush used in the initial news release that she was missing. While the new articles, and even some of her later pics, may make her appear fragile, I wonder if she truly was fragile....while her world was possibly coming apart as she knew it, once she got over the initial shock, I would think that a woman, who by her own words, sought answers to questions from breastfeeding to health issues, would she not have possibly researched her options? Jennifer was educated, and very creative...and surely angry and hurt, by anything that threatened her home, as would many women would. She did not seem to be a cowering type of woman. Is it possible that she had chosen to change her life, including the children, in that change? Instead of making it seem like GR had control, Jr told him how it was going to be from now on. She did leave that morning, but came back long enough, to let him know, that she was no longer going to put up with him and his facade of joyful and motivating enthusiasm in public, when she knew he did little or nothing to help the family unit at home ( her own words ). In his anger at losing control of her that had been building for months, there was an argument...perhaps an accident...or would he have threatened her with losing her own children, using them as pawns? :bigfight:In all fairness, we have to focus on Jennifer...she is the missing one...If indeed it was not planned, then could Jennifer be very close to home. Could the details they speak of show that she was planning a new life....without GR?
Two things of note*...yahoo chat ceased on December 14, 2012. The one pic looks like a webcam pic to me. Did this cause her to have been making plans, since the frequent chats were gone between any and all parties involved?
This link speaks volumes :shakehead: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...1491278655253.65260.1632611304&type=1&theater
IMHO only...once he stepped out on her, could she have done the same? Mothers are caretakers, and she is a beautiful woman. Would it have been culturally accepted for him, but not her? Or could her parents been coming to get her and the children? If any of our verified insiders shed light on any of this, please do. :sleuth:
Bear out fftobed:

 

[sleepinoz]

IIRC the BFF's DH works away alot - perfect empty garage for a few days maybe.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

hi all -- newbie to WS but have been following JR case after a friend got me 'hooked'. You are all doing a GREAT job -- getting her name and story out there, tossing around scenarios, love the animations! Funny how some things I would harp on in my own mind would be discussed in your forum a few hours or days later... At this time, don't think I have much 'new' to offer other than things that stick in my mind:
. the perfect 'story' and timing -- never leave her kids, concert and birthday coming up -- playing the 'mom card'... makes it look like JR ran away
. the alleged beauty shop haircut on Friday and then 4 days later changing it up... looking at some pics, it did not look like she deviated much from the same hairdo so it was prob 'the usual' at the beauty shop
. the recent link to Rochester Craig's list posting -- see it says 190 #'s for her weight -- shouldn't it be more of a range since JR could be of lesser weight?
. if GR has friends and family support -- to me -- why does it appear not that many people showed up for the 2/16 event? Because many did not know about it? Do not believe in him, the 'stories' or want to support him?
. I don't think I saw this posted -- did anyone else notice in the 1st video interview he did in his home -- alllllll the ribbons on display in the house (were behind him in the interview)? At least to me that's what they looked like. Really necessary to flaunt all that in your home? Leave them out for a bit after an event and then store away, no? Imagine having to live with 'that' in your home day in/day out? Maybe there was not another place in the home/another room to show them off?
. I had viewed his FB page quite a while back -- first impressions can speak volumes -- but all the muscle flexing, posing for the camera, etc. -- REALLY? What guy posts that many pics of self? Notice that he seemed to prefer tight in all the right places shorts too... <if you get my drift?>

Hope my very first post does not get me in trouble! LOL

:wagon: Bob's Chicken! :welcome:

thanks for your thought provoking post!

and... Thanks for helping find Jennifer!

:seeya:

 

[LadyBugSTL]

Plastic seems the best choice in terms of it not being able to transfer evidence as easily (ie. if a piece of my hair fell out onto it, it would be more likely to not be held by the plastic as it would be by a blanket, not to mention plastic helping mask obvious decomposition). Living in the country, notice how often crows circle above farmers' fields when they smell something? Ditto for sea gulls (not sure if there are any over your way). Would plastic prevent that?

Hypothetically, if she was killed in the home and not moved until dark, that seems risky. He would know the police would need a search warrant to get into the home, but still would be a bold move to keep her there while the police came to take a report. Unless the report was given at the station?



Still no answer to the question "What was she wearing on her feet?" Cold day, no snow, allegedly driving an hour to an hour and a half each way to/from mall, spending 4 or so hours walking. Past foot surgery. Can only speak for myself as a woman who likes shoes, but I would say no to heels for sure. Flat shoes or flat dress boots maybe. Or, if a crime was committed, no shoes at all? JR doesn't seem the type to be very into shoes, as least until "she changed." One post in the other thread (quoting MSM) said something like "She spent $300 all on herself." God forbid.



This is why I don't think she's far from a road (one heavily covered in mud.) GR is not a large man at all. No way he could carry anything that weighed 170-190 pounds. Drag, yes. Carry, no. But still not too far. Unless he had "help." I think she's close by, too.

Why 8:00pm to hide the van? Kids come home from school around 3:00. Or do you mean 8:00pm because that's when he called the police? If so, I get it.



Could it safely have been hidden on private property of someone who either owns the property but doesn't live there? Private property of a snowbird? His own "other" property that just came to light a few days ago?



According to MSM, JR's dad found the van on Sunday.

Something that's been nagging at me - if the van truly wasn't parked at the apartment complex the entire time Jen's been missing - and no-one saw it being parked there (that has come forward yet) - I'm wondering if it's likely it was parked there in the middle of the night a few days later.....less witnesses.

Also, if this was the case, then the van was stored elsewhere for a few days..(in a wooded area?).....is it possible (and I hate thinking this) - that Jen was also in the van during that time and then placed somewhere else (also in the dead of night and unseen) immediately prior to parking the van in the lot?

I am hoping that as part of the forensics investigation, they checked for decomp in the van?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I am toying with the idea that the van was stored... Then placed at the apartments at a later date...

However....I just thought of something..... Then how did GR get to the Y.... Then NEED a ride home from there on the day of Jenn's disappearance?

I guess he could have jogged to the YMCA... But didn't he just "spontaneously" go to the Y after his run because he was cold? And the car was parked so close to the Y...

Yet... The Y may have been along his regular jogging path, too...

Just some thoughts....

My head is spinning... :juggle:

 

[LadyBugSTL]

Let's discuss that morning - hypothetically... (I wish it wasn't the case, but I think she never left the house alive)....

Let's say there was a fight or argument (over the affair) and JR was killed. How would she be moved? I would think not in the open. Covered with a blanket? Plastic? a Box? How big of material would be needed to cover a female weighing 170-190lbs.

I'm in agreement earlier that she wouldn't be transported "in the open" - or moved from house to vehicle / vehicle to hiding location without being concealed.

naked or clothed? We know the clothes, presumably the same clothes mentioned - just no shoes. If no clothes, how would someone dispose of clothes. The police did not search the home until over a week later. Regular trash removal? I wouldn't think left at home as the police might search right away - right?

I get 100lb bags of feed from our local feed store. These 100lb bags of feed are heavy and I can't imagine carrying two of them (about as clumsy as a 200 pounds of dead weight would be) very far. So I don't think she'd be far from where her van was taken.. if it was taken that day at all.... was their other van (GR's van) checked out? He had until like 8pm to go hide her van that evening. I also agree that she's close where he can keep and eye on where he put her.

Van might not have been where it was found until 3 days later... Where could someone hide her van without it being noticed? Moved at night?

Did LE subpoena his phone records? Where his phone was that day and night could very well be telling as well.

Did the kids go to school the next day? The rest of the week? Asking for a time question - as in where GR was from the next morning when he found her phone (again, were the kids in school?) all the way until Sunday (was it Sunday when JR's dad found her van?) as to his whereabouts??

Just Sleuthing out loud.

Keep it up! Great sleuthing! I agree with everything - I personally feel she was put in a place by someone who did not feel that place could be, or would be searched, and possibly very close to home...

 

[CupCaked]

Hi All, I am new to WS and in awe of what you all do.
I have read all the threads on JR this past week.

I do not believe she left home willingly. If she did, it could be for revenge so everyone would know exactly how GR is, as opposed to how he portrays his public persona, before she went missing.

Does anyone know if her meds are missing from the home? If not, and she is still out there, has her pharmacy been checked for any refills since she has been missing? I do refills at my pharmacy online, and my son has password as well.

I used to worked at home, using VPN. My employer had a recorder and could see every move I made on pc and hear everything I was saying to our customers. It may have been different for GR, but just a thought.

Regarding dumpsters: I don't recall if the ones at the apt where van was found was searched, or some close by where the cell phone was found. Out here in AZ, the landfills have a lot of data on what was dumped by which company and where it is located in the landfill. Most of this is done electronically.There was a recent search for a missing 7 yr old girl, and that information was provided by landfill company on the news.

I am wondering if LE confirmed with FIL that he in fact did not want LE called when JR first went missing.

Also wondering if LE has or is able to get cell records of friend GR had 'tryst' with.
I am not sure if you can get a subpoena for motive.

Regarding the blood found in JR's van: Has anyone actually confirmed that JR or her son ever have a nosebleed in her van?

In addition to the Craig's list posting on 2/10/13 there is one posted on 2/23/13
http://rochester.craigslist.org/laf/3638245211.html

As far as going to GR approved events, you can glean more info by actions, tones and words said at an event, then any article, postings or video can fully show.

Something about JR's pictures stand out to me. Half of them, she looks as if she is not really smiling, but trying. It looks like she is really sad and wants to cry, but hiding it.

I believe LE is making sure they have all their ducks in a row, and is giving someone enough rope.

I'm from NY, but not the area where JR lived, and have lived the past 16 yrs in AZ.
I have shared her poster and HFJR page on FB and twitter.

You guys are awesome.

Praying for you Jennifer!

 

[Piperdog]

Hi All, I am new to WS and in awe of what you all do.
I have read all the threads on JR this past week.

I do not believe she left home willingly. If she did, it could be for revenge so everyone would know exactly how GR is, as opposed to how he portrays his public persona, before she went missing.

Does anyone know if her meds are missing from the home? If not, and she is still out there, has her pharmacy been checked for any refills since she has been missing? I do refills at my pharmacy online, and my son has password as well.

I used to worked at home, using VPN. My employer had a recorder and could see every move I made on pc and hear everything I was saying to our customers. It may have been different for GR, but just a thought.

Regarding dumpsters: I don't recall if the ones at the apt where van was found was searched, or some close by where the cell phone was found. Out here in AZ, the landfills have a lot of data on what was dumped by which company and where it is located in the landfill. Most of this is done electronically.There was a recent search for a missing 7 yr old girl, and that information was provided by landfill company on the news.

I am wondering if LE confirmed with FIL that he in fact did not want LE called when JR first went missing.

Also wondering if LE has or is able to get cell records of friend GR had 'tryst' with.
I am not sure if you can get a subpoena for motive.

Regarding the blood found in JR's van: Has anyone actually confirmed that JR or her son ever have a nosebleed in her van?

In addition to the Craig's list posting on 2/10/13 there is one posted on 2/23/13
http://rochester.craigslist.org/laf/3638245211.html

As far as going to GR approved events, you can glean more info by actions, tones and words said at an event, then any article, postings or video can fully show.

Something about JR's pictures stand out to me. Half of them, she looks as if she is not really smiling, but trying. It looks like she is really sad and wants to cry, but hiding it.

I believe LE is making sure they have all their ducks in a row, and is giving someone enough rope.

I'm from NY, but not the area where JR lived, and have lived the past 16 yrs in AZ.
I have shared her poster and HFJR page on FB and twitter.

You guys are awesome.

Praying for you Jennifer!

I'm wondering why the post is on the Rochester, NY Craigslist. Rochester is a 3 hour drive from Norwich. As far as I know, there are no postings on the "local" Craigslist adds like Binghamton, Utica, Oneonta, etc. Why Rochester?

 

[LolaAngelina]

Hi All, I am new to WS and in awe of what you all do.
I have read all the threads on JR this past week.

I do not believe she left home willingly. If she did, it could be for revenge so everyone would know exactly how GR is, as opposed to how he portrays his public persona, before she went missing.

Does anyone know if her meds are missing from the home? If not, and she is still out there, has her pharmacy been checked for any refills since she has been missing? I do refills at my pharmacy online, and my son has password as well.

I used to worked at home, using VPN. My employer had a recorder and could see every move I made on pc and hear everything I was saying to our customers. It may have been different for GR, but just a thought.

Regarding dumpsters: I don't recall if the ones at the apt where van was found was searched, or some close by where the cell phone was found. Out here in AZ, the landfills have a lot of data on what was dumped by which company and where it is located in the landfill. Most of this is done electronically.There was a recent search for a missing 7 yr old girl, and that information was provided by landfill company on the news.

I am wondering if LE confirmed with FIL that he in fact did not want LE called when JR first went missing.

Also wondering if LE has or is able to get cell records of friend GR had 'tryst' with.
I am not sure if you can get a subpoena for motive.

Regarding the blood found in JR's van: Has anyone actually confirmed that JR or her son ever have a nosebleed in her van?

In addition to the Craig's list posting on 2/10/13 there is one posted on 2/23/13
http://rochester.craigslist.org/laf/3638245211.html

As far as going to GR approved events, you can glean more info by actions, tones and words said at an event, then any article, postings or video can fully show.

Something about JR's pictures stand out to me. Half of them, she looks as if she is not really smiling, but trying. It looks like she is really sad and wants to cry, but hiding it.

I believe LE is making sure they have all their ducks in a row, and is giving someone enough rope.

I'm from NY, but not the area where JR lived, and have lived the past 16 yrs in AZ.
I have shared her poster and HFJR page on FB and twitter.

You guys are awesome.

Praying for you Jennifer!

:wagon: Cupcaked!

BBM
We haven't been given any info from LE in regards to meds and whether they have been refilled.
Yes I would think it would be quite hard to get the trysted ladie's phone records. It seems to be taking sometime just to get JR's.
I was also surprised by the small turn out at the "event". I thought at the very least people would go just to see this guy everyone was talking about. See if he made any slip ups etc (judging by the pics though he had an awesome time, couldn't keep the big smile off his face :furious

 

[sleepinoz]

I'm wondering why the post is on the Rochester, NY Craigslist. Rochester is a 3 hour drive from Norwich. As far as I know, there are no postings on the "local" Craigslist adds like Binghamton, Utica, Oneonta, etc. Why Rochester?

It's in Utica:

http://utica.craigslist.org/laf/3608344126.html