Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 9

[LivingJuicy]

I'm viewing the posts in Linear mode, lol. I'm sorry for inferring that you were. This is the second apology this morning. It's difficult to not become defensive when your viewed as being complicit to a cover up. Or you question was has become the standard view point. As I mentioned to another, I kinda feel like a turd in a punch bowl around here.

Solus - I can't speak for anyone other than myself here but I'll say this. I don't view you as an accomplice or involved nor do I believe 100% that you are in belief of Mr. Ramsaran having no involvement in his wife's death. I believe you stated yourself yesterday that at some point, you had to consider it. (I'm paraphrasing!)

I think it's logical (and you are very well read here, imo) to wonder and or assume that GR had involvement.

I think it's probably a difficult situation that you are in right now. I'm hoping you signed up here to get to the bottom of what we, websleuthers do. Solve missing people cases.

With that said - what specifically has made you consider GR to be involved, if only for a short period?

 

[Jilllian]

IMO everything that was said by GR and said by his pr team support this intent.

exactly. and this is what was sold to and bought by LE and the community at large.

still angers me that not ONE person came forward to the media right from the get-go to say "hey. something's not right here. she wouldn't have just left her kids. not at christmas time. not before her daughter's concert. not before her daughter's birthday. not at all." where were her friends? where was her former employer? waiting for Joe Mahoney to call them for an interview to *finally* shed some light on how wonderful jennifer really was?

i can't confirm that no friends of hers came forward, but i DO know that positive articles written about Jennifer in the Daily Star weren't written until someone started asking questions about the one angle approach...

the media worked with what they had at the time - and that was words from GR, his PR person/mouthpiece, and his "friends."

so sad. and inexcusable.

 

[Solus]

oh, just a wild guess since it was one of the first things that was focused on.

that planted the seed for many community members to believe that she just took off, when she was dead the entire time, IMO. and that planted seed had everything to do with her not being found for 84 days, in my opinion.

I understand that we have different perspectives. Every event has 3 sides to it. Your version, GR version and somewhere in between is the truth. Sorry don't remember the movie that came from to give it the proper credits.

I look forward to discussing these with you.

 

[mikkismom]

I'm viewing the posts in Linear mode, lol. I'm sorry for inferring that you were. This is the second apology this morning. It's difficult to not become defensive when your viewed as being complicit to a cover up. Or you question was has become the standard view point. As I mentioned to another, I kinda feel like a turd in a punch bowl around here.

With all due respect, please understand that most of us have followed this case from December. We have only seen what you see us discussing on here.

I, personally have been in a situation where someone I knew and trusted did something 'unthinkable.' It was my 'personal 9/11'. Since that incident, nothing is out of the realm of possibility for me.

Most of us only want truth and justice in the cases we follow on here - whatever that may be. We don't want to bash or harm or accuse anybody. We only have the information we have been given through MSM and verified insiders. We don't have 'all the pieces of the puzzle', but we have seen 'this picture' before.

JMO

 

[voominvava]

Yes, it does sound absurd.

As Solus has pointed out, her communication with the mythical gamer would have likely progressed to Skype or Yahoo messenger.

And, of course, LE has inspected her phone, and her phone records, and her computer, and would have come across an electronic trail, if one existed.

And we haven't heard any warnings from LE about the Camelot Killer who preys on stay-at-home Moms and lures them away from their families to a snowy grave.

But be on the alert, Ana and POB -- you never know.....

Just for argument sake, LE could very well have evidence of a close friendship that they have not revealed to the public... Just because we don't have proof, doesn't mean they don't.

 

[ana]

exactly. and this is what was sold to and bought by LE and the community at large.

still angers me that not ONE person came forward to the media right from the get-go to say "hey. something's not right here. she wouldn't have just left her kids. not at christmas time. not before her daughter's concert. not before her daughter's birthday. not at all." where were her friends? where was her former employer? waiting for Joe Mahoney to call them for an interview to *finally* shed some light on how wonderful jennifer really was?

i can't confirm that no friends of hers came forward, but i DO know that positive articles written about Jennifer in the Daily Star weren't written until someone started asking questions about the one angle approach...

the media worked with what they had at the time - and that was words from GR, his PR person/mouthpiece, and his "friends."

so sad. and inexcusable.

This makes me so sad. To just think of her away from her children and family. I have so many questions.
I am glad that eventually one person in the media saw the light.

I am beginning to wonder if any of her real friends knew that she had gone missing. Was there any press coverage with a recognizable picture of her?

 

[Solus]

waiting for Joe Mahoney to call them for an interview to *finally* shed some light on how wonderful jennifer really was?
.

This here is probably one of the causes. How many discussions have taken place on here about the first article. How many people whose intentions were to help want to have comments and statements taking out of context.

When I read the statement above (correct me if I'm wrong) that no one understood or thought that she was wonderful. I find it hard to understand why someone would think that friends making the initial comments of Jennifer was thinking that her reputation needed defending. Please keep in mind I'm referring to that point in time, not with the knowledge that is known now.

It was known the kind of person she was, it was known the type of character she had. What wasn't known was what happened, sharing information that could answer that was what would have been the primary focus.

Yes hindsight is 20/20, I understand you've given a great deal of thought to your response and to what you would have done. However that doesn't imply that what was said, was done with the intentions that you have implied.

 

[Hexe]

When I read the statement above (correct me if I'm wrong) that no one understood or thought that she was wonderful. I find it hard to understand why someone would think that friends making the initial comments of Jennifer was thinking that her reputation needed defending. Please keep in mind I'm referring to that point in time, not with the knowledge that is known now.

Not defending. Showing the people what kind of person she was. These initial comments are one sided, pointing only towards the possibility she left willingly. None of them shown that she was devoted to her family, caring person, who wouldn't even think about leaving her children. And so the picture painted was not real Jennifer.

It was known the kind of person she was, it was known the type of character she had. What wasn't known was what happened, sharing information that could answer that was what would have been the primary focus.

With all due respect, the general public did not know Jen. They knew zilch about her personality. Saying only things like these from the initial comments by anonymous friends was not helpful at all, as it reinforced the image of a woman who dumped her family for some internet lover. That was not encouraging people to look for Jen or to share with the autorities any possible helpful knowledge.

 

[Jilllian]

This here is probably one of the causes. How many discussions have taken place on here about the first article. How many people whose intentions were to help want to have comments and statements taking out of context.

When I read the statement above (correct me if I'm wrong) that no one understood or thought that she was wonderful. I find it hard to understand why someone would think that friends making the initial comments of Jennifer was thinking that her reputation needed defending. Please keep in mind I'm referring to that point in time, not with the knowledge that is known now.

It was known the kind of person she was, it was known the type of character she had. What wasn't known was what happened, sharing information that could answer that was what would have been the primary focus.

Yes hindsight is 20/20, I understand you've given a great deal of thought to your response and to what you would have done. However that doesn't imply that what was said, was done with the intentions that you have implied.

causes of what? you only quoted one sentence of my post, so there's no context, which is what you're referring to?

if it was known what kind of person she was, her character, etc. why was it not reported until after her body was found?

the seed was already planted that she left willingly. and it was planted by the loudest voices of them all. loudly enough for LE to believe it, at first anyway.

once you're verified, i do hope you can clarify these things.

 

[imamaze]

Solus,

First Welcome to Websleuths, good to have you with us.

When we read about Jennifer it was as someone that did not know her, I think the same can be said for several in Jennifer's town. They didn't know her. Why wouldn't they say, she would not leave her children at Christmas time or any time for that matter. Why did 'we' get the impression that Jennifer could have ran off with someone or went to meet somone and things turned out badly?

I'm not a local so I can only speak for what was being said by Lavanda and thru the media and LE.


Can you show us where her friends were defending her? or when they were saying No, GR is wrong, she would not leave her children. Well a couple insiders did here but why would anyone even an anonymous friend say something like she could have left to meet someone? and I'm paraphrasing here but that's how I took it. How did we get the impression she was thinking of leaving GR?

GR denied an affair 'tryst' for a long time. Now maybe not with LE I don't know. Lavanda tried to minimize it by calling it a 'tryst' when she talked to reporters.

Why would the town think Jennifer had run off? I don't understand it. Where would they get that info? I never heard this from Jennifers' Mom, Dad or sister. or even two of the verified insiders we do have here. I did hear it from someone speaking for GR or imo from what I read about what was being said about Jennifer it was from GR as well unless these anonymous friends knew she was meeting someone, she was playing games on line alot, etc.

Ima

 

[Solus]

causes of what? .

Sorry, was referring to why more family members/friends were not coming forward with information regarding Jen. Regarding Jen's good qualities.

 

[Solus]

Solus,

First Welcome to Websleuths, good to have you with us.

When we read about Jennifer it was as someone that did not know her, I think the same can be said for several in Jennifer's town. They didn't know her. Why wouldn't they say, she would not leave her children at Christmas time or any time for that matter. Why did 'we' get the impression that Jennifer could have ran off with someone or went to meet somone and things turned out badly?

I'm not a local so I can only speak for what was being said by Lavanda and thru the media and LE.


Can you show us where her friends were defending her? or when they were saying No, GR is wrong, she would not leave her children. Well a couple insiders did here but why would anyone even an anonymous friend say something like she could have left to meet someone? and I'm paraphrasing here but that's how I took it. How did we get the impression she was thinking of leaving GR?

GR denied an affair 'tryst' for a long time. Now maybe not with LE I don't know. Lavanda tried to minimize it by calling it a 'tryst' when she talked to reporters.

Why would the town think Jennifer had run off? I don't understand it. Where would they get that info? I never heard this from Jennifers' Mom, Dad or sister. or even two of the verified insiders we do have here. I did hear it from someone speaking for GR or imo from what I read about what was being said about Jennifer it was from GR as well unless these anonymous friends knew she was meeting someone, she was playing games on line alot, etc.

Ima

I can speak regarding my thoughts. I knew that Jen would never leave willingly, GR knew that she would have never abandoned the children willingly.

Yet, there everyone was. Jen was missing. I was trying to imagine what could have happened. If Jen had left willingly she was out there and alive. If she hadn't left willingly, I don't think I need to expand on that. Yes, I wanted to believe that she left, not because I thought it was because she was a horrible person, but because it gave me hope she would return.

However, I would thinking about other scenarios. How would a woman driving to Syracuse vanish. It seemed unlikely that she stopped at a stop light and was car jacked. Please remember this was only thoughts in my mind, I'm not suggesting this is what happened. Also, I've admitted, the thought that GR was involved did not show up on my radar at all. So my I started imaging other scenarios. What would have made her stop somewhere else or meet someone else. If I assumed (thoughts in my head, not saying this was Jen's mental position) some scenarios based on things I did know. Example, I knew she was spending a lot of time on games. If she had been unhappy with the marriage, if even while trying to save the marriage was thinking about the possibility it wasn't going to be saved, if she was finding comfort talking to someone she met online. Then that gave me something that would explain what happened. If she was meeting someone and that person was not who he was claiming to be. That gave me a scenario.

There wasn't intent to say that is what happened, it simply gave me a plausible scenario that my mind could understand.

It wasn't planted or suggested by anyone, it was a purely conjecture.

 

[Solus]

GR denied an affair 'tryst' for a long time. Now maybe not with LE I don't know. Lavanda tried to minimize it by calling it a 'tryst' when she talked to reporters.
Ima

Please bear with me here.

Having an affair does not mean you are involved with the disappearance and death of a spouse. If charges are placed against GR, then the affair becomes relevant. Before that time, all it is dirty laundry being aired.

If one considers for a moment that GR was not involved, the knowledge of that would only affect 3 peoples memories of their parents marriage.

However at that moment, making the affair public didn't help find out what happened to JR. Also from the moment LE arrived at the house on 12/11 they were notified about the affair. It wasn't weeks or days later, they were told that night.

 

[Ace85FL]

I can speak regarding my thoughts. I knew that Jen would never leave willingly, GR knew that she would have never abandoned the children willingly.

Yet, there everyone was. Jen was missing. I was trying to imagine what could have happened. If Jen had left willingly she was out there and alive. If she hadn't left willingly, I don't think I need to expand on that. Yes, I wanted to believe that she left, not because I thought it was because she was a horrible person, but because it gave me hope she would return.

However, I would thinking about other scenarios. How would a woman driving to Syracuse vanish. It seemed unlikely that she stopped at a stop light and was car jacked. Please remember this was only thoughts in my mind, I'm not suggesting this is what happened. Also, I've admitted, the thought that GR was involved did not show up on my radar at all. So my I started imaging other scenarios. What would have made her stop somewhere else or meet someone else. If I assumed (thoughts in my head, not saying this was Jen's mental position) some scenarios based on things I did know. Example, I knew she was spending a lot of time on games. If she had been unhappy with the marriage, if even while trying to save the marriage was thinking about the possibility it wasn't going to be saved, if she was finding comfort talking to someone she met online. Then that gave me something that would explain what happened. If she was meeting someone and that person was not who he was claiming to be. That gave me a scenario.

There wasn't intent to say that is what happened, it simply gave me a plausible scenario that my mind could understand.

It wasn't planted or suggested by anyone, it was a purely conjecture.

Solus...

I know you're in the process of being verified, and maybe can not comment yet.

But...

After your comment just now, and you pointing out that article yesterday, and that it definitely is two different people speaking (i.e. the change from quoting "a family friend" in the first paragraph, to quoting a "source who spoke to The Daily Star on the condition of anonymity" in the second paragraph).

Officials seek leads on missing area woman

Paragraph 1: (The Family Friend)
Jennifer Renz Ramsaran, the 36-year-old stay-at-home mom missing for a week under suspicious circumstances, had begun discussing the possibility of separating from her husband and had made new online gaming friends through her iPhone account, a family friend said Tuesday.

Paragraph 2: (The Anonymous Source)
“It sounded like she was developing an emotional attachment to somebody,” said a source who spoke to The Daily Star on the condition of anonymity. “If there was somebody showing her an awful lot of attention, I could see her being misled.”

<Mod Snip>

 

[Bettylou4you]

I can speak regarding my thoughts. I knew that Jen would never leave willingly, GR knew that she would have never abandoned the children willingly.

Yet, there everyone was. Jen was missing. I was trying to imagine what could have happened. If Jen had left willingly she was out there and alive. If she hadn't left willingly, I don't think I need to expand on that. Yes, I wanted to believe that she left, not because I thought it was because she was a horrible person, but because it gave me hope she would return.

However, I would thinking about other scenarios. How would a woman driving to Syracuse vanish. It seemed unlikely that she stopped at a stop light and was car jacked. Please remember this was only thoughts in my mind, I'm not suggesting this is what happened. Also, I've admitted, the thought that GR was involved did not show up on my radar at all. So my I started imaging other scenarios. What would have made her stop somewhere else or meet someone else. If I assumed (thoughts in my head, not saying this was Jen's mental position) some scenarios based on things I did know. Example, I knew she was spending a lot of time on games. If she had been unhappy with the marriage, if even while trying to save the marriage was thinking about the possibility it wasn't going to be saved, if she was finding comfort talking to someone she met online. Then that gave me something that would explain what happened. If she was meeting someone and that person was not who he was claiming to be. That gave me a scenario.

There wasn't intent to say that is what happened, it simply gave me a plausible scenario that my mind could understand.

It wasn't planted or suggested by anyone, it was a purely conjecture.

I am curious to know logistically how you know she was spending so much time on games. Were you with her for hours every day and witnessed it? Did GR tell you this first hand? Did JR tell you she was finding comfort online? Just looking for context, not being confrontational.

 

[Hexe]

Please bear with me here.

Having an affair does not mean you are involved with the disappearance and death of a spouse. If charges are placed against GR, then the affair becomes relevant. Before that time, all it is dirty laundry being aired.

Sorry, but how can we brush the possible motive for murder off, just like that? It is relevant right now, as we don't know who killed Jen and we have to look everywhere. It's not a dirty laundry, it's a freakin' MOTIVE.

If one considers for a moment that GR was not involved, the knowledge of that would only affect 3 peoples memories of their parents marriage.

And what if he is?

However at that moment, making the affair public didn't help find out what happened to JR. Also from the moment LE arrived at the house on 12/11 they were notified about the affair. It wasn't weeks or days later, they were told that night.

Yet another poster with a deep knowledge of the things that could be known only to the members of the Ramsaran household. Okay.

 

[Solus]

Sorry, but how can we brush the possible motive for murder off, just like that? It is relevant right now, as we don't know who killed Jen and we have to look everywhere. It's not a dirty laundry, it's a freakin' MOTIVE.

And what if he is?

Yet another poster with a deep knowledge of the things that could be known only to the members of the Ramsaran household. Okay.

Yes, it would be motive if police charge him or even announce him as the primary person of interest. I'm not dismissing it. I'm saying before that time spreading it around accomplishes what?

 

[Solus]

Yes, it would be motive if police charge him or even announce him as the primary person of interest. I'm not dismissing it. I'm saying before that time spreading it around accomplishes what?

To expand there was the obvious push to publish the person the affair was with. LE was aware of the affair and the person involved. So it could be investigated and followed up on, but what other possible gain is there to Jen or the family to push to have that published at this time?

 

[Solus]

If Jen enjoyed playing games but Remy did not why would that lead to contention?

The amount of time that was being spent on it.

 

[Bettylou4you]

I'm not sure where the line is to know when I'm crossing it or not, but I imagine they will snip what I can't say.

I did not see it no, but for months before hand I had heard about it. I was also present for several calls over about a 10 day time period. Where GR and JR were talking on a cell phone with the speaker. When asked what she was doing, she said playing. Please understand that I have no other context, perhaps she had just gotten on it. However, it had been a source of disagreement for a while. I'm like Jen and enjoy games, GR doesn't. I think it is because he sucks at them but that is besides the point.

It wasn't mentioned because that was known to be the cause of the disappearance. It was a single potential scenario, how many scenarios have any of you came up with in your head.

I'm getting a really creepy feeling here. Did JR know GR has her on speaker in front of others when discussing personal matters? This guy has serious boundary issues, whether its having an affair with his wifes best friemd or airing their conversations on speaker phone. Unreal. If I was JR i would have dumped that turkey in a heartbeat.