NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #1

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Keeleydoll, Can I ask where you heard that it was a couple of months ? tia lizb

Trying to read back through MSM articles now to see if I can find it.

Many of the articles refer to him as retired.

Really only looking for a timeframe of her solo jogging.


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In one news photo, it looked as if there were homes that were situated overlooking part of the trail...higher than the weeds, looking down. Is that accurate? Could someone in one of those houses, watched as this pretty girl ran alone at the same time each day? Is there any part of her usual route that can be seen from homes in Howard Beach?
 
In one news photo, it looked as if there were homes that were situated overlooking part of the trail...higher than the weeds, looking down. Is that accurate? Could someone in one of those houses, watched as this pretty girl ran alone at the same time each day? Is there any part of her usual route that can be seen from homes in Howard Beach?

If I recall correctly, LE has video of her entering the park, but not of anyone else entering the park where she did. That leads me to think she encountered someone once inside the park. And, that is why I think this is a random crime of opportunity, not a stalker or a targeted crime.
 
Ditto your thoughts flgrl. Someone who could see a part of the trail she ran on from their bedroom window. Someone who might have sat and waited to see her run by everyday. Someone who looked forward with sadistic and sexual anticipation and arousal for her run by. Someone who fantasized about her when she appeared and self satisfied. Someone whose fantasies continued to escalate with each day and citing. Someone who grew frustrated with watching and wanted her in person. Someone who lusted after her...and hated her for what he could not have or be. Someone who didn't work and spent days in his bedroom behind closed doors. A shut in and loner who resented her apparent freedom of spirit, life, health and outdoors. Not a transient. And probably not even a newcomer to the area. Probably saw her run alone on occasion and at some point decided he would prepare...and lay and wait every day..until the next time she came alone.

Alot of pent up rage and sexual violence by the time his day had come.

Also the window watcher would know the habits and timing of all who ran the park . He knew the ins and outs. He knew when the area was patrolled. He planned ALL of it as the weeks passed and his obsession amplified. (Conversation abt condom is irrelevant...think perp cared abt that?)

Also don't think there will be any DNA match since perp has lived and done whatever off the grid ...so far anyhow.

However, NYPD's finest, the best of the best won't stop - ever. AND no stone will be left unturned. The'll figure it out. But will offer no clues because as they said the perp could be watching us right now on his tv. AND they can't possibly alarm the community that it might be one of their own...people wouldn't leave their houses and everyone would start looking at everyone.

All just my own thoughts and opinions ..

And do not believe the two cases are related...except for the possibility of a copycat.

Excellent post. And perhaps NYPD thinks the perp was at the Howard Beach town hall meeting last night.
 
Excellent post. And perhaps NYPD thinks the perp was at the Howard Beach town hall meeting last night.

Eek. Hadn't thought of that.

I do think the perp is right there, under everyone's nose in the neighborhood. Blech.

jmo
 
If I recall correctly, LE has video of her entering the park, but not of anyone else entering the park where she did. That leads me to think she encountered someone once inside the park. And, that is why I think this is a random crime of opportunity, not a stalker or a targeted crime.

I think stmarysmead was thinking of an areal photo published with an article a couple of days ago that showed the exact spot where she was found and there were houses quite close by. I remember because I also wondered whether anyone in those houses either heard or saw something, or could have watched her from those houses and followed her. This did not look like and "entrance" to a park, just a row of houses next to the weeds. I'm sorry I do not remember which article this was.
 
that was the impression I got within the first few articles on the first day. dad begged off due to a sore back, I didn't think that was the first time and one article said something like that and I took it as sensationalistic reporting. then everyone ran w that one, idk why.

All this time I was thinking this was the first time she ran alone, or that it was a rare event (her running alone) - BUT if she had been running alone for days? weeks? month? - that changes everything!
 
I believe he was given a disability retirement. LE / fire are "safety" union jobs, if you cant do the job anymore you can get medically retired.

Did he retire ? originally it was said that he was out on disability. jmo But, maybe he put in his retirement when he was out. jmo
 
I think stmarysmead was thinking of an areal photo published with an article a couple of days ago that showed the exact spot where she was found and there were houses quite close by. I remember because I also wondered whether anyone in those houses either heard or saw something, or could have watched her from those houses and followed her. This did not look like and "entrance" to a park, just a row of houses next to the weeds. I'm sorry I do not remember which article this was.

It sounds like there are people who live close enough to where they'd be able to see if not for the weeds and overgrowth.

"I hear there's a couple of shanty houses out there," one neighbor, who identified himself to the Daily News as John, said.

"She used to go jogging with her father," he added. "If the weeds were not that tall, we would have seen the girl jogging on the path ... You can grab that girl, and we wouldn't know it."

https://m.mic.com/articles/150510/b...ssing-while-jogging-found-in-marsh#.vyEkOzfr1


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I think stmarysmead was thinking of an areal photo published with an article a couple of days ago that showed the exact spot where she was found and there were houses quite close by. I remember because I also wondered whether anyone in those houses either heard or saw something, or could have watched her from those houses and followed her. This did not look like and "entrance" to a park, just a row of houses next to the weeds. I'm sorry I do not remember which article this was.

Right, I hear ya.

But if someone was watching from a window that overlooks the park or her running route, that person would somehow have to enter the park. And, from the video obtained, they don't see anyone doing that, other than Karina. So, either that someone watching her from a window entered the park elsewhere or she encountered someone randomly who was already in the park.

I'm leaning toward randomly encountering someone in the park.

Seeing a jogger from your window and then hustling to the park to attack her seems a bit unlikely....though I concede that it's possible.

jmopinion
 
Right, I hear ya.

But if someone was watching from a window that overlooks the park or her running route, that person would somehow have to enter the park. And, from the video obtained, they don't see anyone doing that, other than Karina. So, either that someone watching her from a window entered the park elsewhere or she encountered someone randomly who was already in the park.

I'm leaning toward randomly encountering someone in the park.

Seeing a jogger from your window and then hustling to the park to attack her seems a bit unlikely....though I concede that it's possible.

jmopinion

A person named only as "Steve" in a news report stated that he saw her entering the trail area. I don't have a link, and have to go out. Will attempt to find later.
 
Right, I hear ya.

But if someone was watching from a window that overlooks the park or her running route, that person would somehow have to enter the park. And, from the video obtained, they don't see anyone doing that, other than Karina. So, either that someone watching her from a window entered the park elsewhere or she encountered someone randomly who was already in the park.

I'm leaning toward randomly encountering someone in the park.

Seeing a jogger from your window and then hustling to the park to attack her seems a bit unlikely....though I concede that it's possible.

jmopinion


Sorry I'm a bit confused - are the "weeds" and the "park" one and the same?

I thought there's a park and a section of that park is weeds and overgrowth with firelanes. Now, in that photo I was talking about it looked like those houses were right by the weeds, hence to my understanding they would be in the park. Someone following her into the weeds form those houses would therefore not pass any of the entrances to the park, and therefore not be on any video. I hope I'm making sense.

And maybe I got it all wrong.
 
As a retired firefighter who also searched for remains at the 9/11 World Trade Center aftermath, her father would know a lot about search and rescue.

Periwinkl3: Thank you for your service as a firefighter and especially for searching for remains after 9/11. You are a true hero.
 
A person named only as "Steve" in a news report stated that he saw her entering the trail area. I don't have a link, and have to go out. Will attempt to find later.

Is this what you're thinking of?

"Steve (redacted by me), 30, who lives one block over from the Vetranos, said he saw Karina go onto the path alone sometime after 5 p.m. Tuesday at the start of her run."

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...father-howard-beach-marshes-article-1.2736823

I don't know why, but I assumed she entered the park at the end of her run, not at the beginning. Not sure that means anything, just have to change the timeline in my bean-brain.

(I redacted his last name.)
 
A few thoughts:

as I mentioned in Vanessa's thread, as unlikely as it seems these two murders are connected (and I don't think they are, but anything is possible) it is definitely weird that both brutal attacks happened during daylight to two young women who share so many similarities. Apart from having a similar "look" and a social media presence, they also posted a fair amount of images that strike me as being highly aspirational for people without their same financial privilege- apart from being pretty both women appear "sleek" and well-groomed in their social media, which is a certain type of class marker, in addition to both posting photos of adventure vacations. That makes me give a little more weight to a stalker theory, although the least complicated explanation is that both met up with random attackers by chance.

As an aside- on this site (and in MSM and society in general) we're bombarded with sensational, horrific cases. The world at large is not as dangerous and horrific a place as it would seem if one spends a lot of time here and watching the news. Sensationalism sells, and people in general are rarely victims of serial killers or other random murderers.

Being a woman under 60 out alone on a jog who is attacked by a stranger is pretty low on the list of causes of premature death in this country. Like, lower than being a a woman under 60 driving to the gym to run on the treadmill and getting in a car crash because she's been told to never jog alone. imo.

It's still highly unlikely that any woman who run by themselves, especially in the middle of the day, are going to become murder victims. Sure, it's good to be aware of one's surroundings and listen to one's instincts (and I'm in favor of *nobody*, male or female, wearing earphones when exercising outdoors- imo it's dangerous to block out one's surroundings, especially when running near traffic, but we all make the choices for our own individual risk tolerance in order to live happy, fulfilling lives)- but victim blaming or telling women they shouldn't be able to move about the world freely as autonomous beings is *not* a good solution imo. Not everyone has or wants to have a chaperone attached to their hip at all times, and expecting woman to do so places an unfair burden on them and curtails their ability to be fully human and have equal rights out in the world at large. imo. Women are told their whole lives to be constantly on high alert every waking moment and unless they want to become limited, house-bound agoraphobics, a lot of the time they aren't going to be making the choice that's "perfectly protected" in a society that tells them that's how they have to be in order to be safe and "responsible". Eff That Noise.

Also- yeah, all those legions of untested rape kits are probably a bigger contributor to women out running alone being at risk then, you know, them out being alone. Last I heard they were starting to work through the backlog but I haven't followed up recently to see where they were in the process now. According to FBI stats, a small percentage of rapists are responsible for the majority of rapes- in other words, a huge amount of reported rapes are carried out by serial rapists with multiple victims. Being able to match rape case DNA to a even a handful of rapists could result in a huge decrease in future assault statistics. (Not to mention, some serial rapists escalate to murder).

I love this post!
 
Sorry I'm a bit confused - are the "weeds" and the "park" one and the same?

I thought there's a park and a section of that park is weeds and overgrowth with firelanes. Now, in that photo I was talking about it looked like those houses were right by the weeds, hence to my understanding they would be in the park. Someone following her into the weeds form those houses would therefore not pass any of the entrances to the park, and therefore not be on any video. I hope I'm making sense.

And maybe I got it all wrong.

No, that is making sense. I need to look at some arial shots as I want to know all the possible ways to get into that area.
 
I hate to think about this...let alone post it. But...it's really bothering me.

Anal rape is really not "common". Is it? (Not that any rape is..)

I've been trying to find info, but, not finding much.

KV's story is so so horrible.
 
I think stmarysmead was thinking of an areal photo published with an article a couple of days ago that showed the exact spot where she was found and there were houses quite close by. I remember because I also wondered whether anyone in those houses either heard or saw something, or could have watched her from those houses and followed her. This did not look like and "entrance" to a park, just a row of houses next to the weeds. I'm sorry I do not remember which article this was.

I was wondering how no one heard anything either but quickly realized they are located right near JFK airport, constant planes. Which can even be heard while the parents spoke to the media the other day.
 
I hate to think about this...let alone post it. But...it's really bothering me.

Anal rape is really not "common". Is it? (Not that any rape is..)

I've been trying to find info, but, not finding much.

KV's story is so so horrible.

IDK, but I don't think it's common. ??

The fact that she was raped in two places is one of the reasons I'm suspecting there is more than one perp. :(

So sad she had to go through this brutality.

jmopinion
 
Being a woman under 60 out alone on a jog who is attacked by a stranger is pretty low on the list of causes of premature death in this country. Like, lower than being a a woman under 60 driving to the gym to run on the treadmill and getting in a car crash because she's been told to never jog alone. imo.

The advice isn't to never jog alone, but to not go into remote areas and jog alone, or at least not without some kind of protection. To me that's good common sense. It doesn't mean one has to be a prisoner of their home, it means they use some basic safety awareness to hopefully minimize risk.

Just like young women in college are advised not to go drinking at night and then start walking around inebriated and alone, like leaving a bar, they are advised to use the buddy system. That's common sense.
 
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