NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #4

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Seems odd that the father is chatting with the press and allowing them in to photograph his home and the accused's bedroom. A male black retired principal from an inner-city public elementary school (who well knows that there are some seriously troubled students who remain past their due date in every grade in NYC schools) must realize that talking to the police without an attorney present shows a dangerous lack of common sense. And where was he for the perp walk?
 
Paige SC said:
All murderers at some point had no prior criminal history. Because of this guy's age I'm quite sure he's gotten away with plenty for a long period of time. He wasn't the salt-of-the-earth Forest Gump turned psychopathic killer overnight.

No one has been able to predict who will become a murderer or prevent murder from happening. There are clues, sure, but we don't punish people based on what they might do in the future. Understanding the minds of madness does nothing to deter crime other than satisfy our curiosity (and in many instances, unfortunately, it minimizes the crime, makes excuses for the perp and lays blame on the victim IMHO)
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Please, stop. This is such backwards thinking it's scary. They haven't been able to YET. This is what research and science, both brain and behavioral, are for. It doesn't minimize the crime and it doesn't blame the victim.

As far as sadistic killers having once not had a criminal record, they may not have had a criminal record, but you can bet they exhibit some extreme signs of tendencies to violence and a lack of empathy. If we were able to see this mans childhood records, like we did in the Todd Kohlhepp case, I'm sure there would be the warning signs. Youre obsessed with punishment! No one is suggesting we punish children for things they haven't yet done. You don't get it! You treat them young so they don't end up becoming monsters later. Wouldn't it be nice if they could be taught to control these impulses rather than wait for them to brutally torture, rape and kill innocent people? This is what experts are working on and need support in doing so.
 
stmarysmead said:
I doubt that they are in "complete and utter shock." They have a son/brother who has been threatening violence against women for years; he had to attend an alternative school because of his behavior issues; headmits to having a violent temper and stormed out of the house on the day of a heinous murder in the area...and then returned home, injured.

They accepted his "story" then, but now, even after detailed confession and DNA match...they go public blaming the police.

No one with a son with this "history" including violent threats against women...can be that "shocked." The behavior of the family at this moment does not speak well of them or show respect for the Vetranos pain. I hope they are not going to make this into a "spectacle" to free their brother, without regard to truth or public safety.

They can and should support their son/brother with some dignity and consideration for the awful tragedy of the Vetranos.
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Bravo! I agree. They can say they are shocked but I'm sure all the warning signs were absolutely there from a young age. I feel like we see this often in cases like this. I hope should any of my children exhibit this type of behavior, I'm able to be proactive and aware. I think for some parents they think seeing the best in their children is love, but it's not love to deny your child is troubled and dangerous. It sets them up to bring a lot of heart break to many people and destroy their own life in the process. Also, it's probably guilt on their part too. They want to pretend there were no warning signs because if they admit it, they will feel culpable for not doing more.
 
RainCheck said:
Please, stop. This is such backwards thinking it's scary. They haven't been able to YET. This is what research and science, both brain and behavioral, are for. It doesn't minimize the crime and it doesn't blame the victim.

As far as sadistic killers having once not had a criminal record, they may not have had a criminal record, but you can bet they exhibit some extreme signs of tendencies to violence and a lack of empathy. If we were able to see this mans childhood records, like we did in the Todd Kohlhepp case, I'm sure there would be the warning signs. Youre obsessed with punishment! No one is suggesting we punish children for things they haven't yet done. You don't get it! You treat them young so they don't end up becoming monsters later. Wouldn't it be nice if they could be taught to control these impulses rather than wait for them to brutally torture, rape and kill innocent people? This is what experts are working on and need support in doing so.
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Have cared for a few foster children who exhibited murderous tendencies. A couple were 4 and 5 years old. Just meeting them you would have had no idea what they were capable of... They were in a cutting edge therapy/behavioral program at our renowned children's hospital. Will never forget what a pediatric psychiatrist said to me once : "Some children seem to just be born to grow up and be criminals, not much can be done for them. "
 
RainCheck said:
Bravo! I agree. They can say they are shocked but I'm sure all the warning signs were absolutely there from a young age. I feel like we see this often in cases like this. I hope should any of my children exhibit this type of behavior, I'm able to be proactive and aware. I think for some parents they think seeing the best in their children is love, but it's not love to deny your child is troubled and dangerous. It sets them up to bring a lot of heart break to many people and destroy their own life in the process. Also, it's probably guilt on their part too. They want to pretend there were no warning signs because if they admit it, they will feel culpable for not doing more.
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agree, but depending on where a person lives it can be very difficult to access the kind of help needed. jmo This would not apply to NYC, though...
 
RainCheck said:
I'm not sure if this was posted yet or not, but it's being reported one of the 911 callers mentioned him by name when reporting his bizarre behavior around the park. Probably made tracking him down much easier. I wonder how they knew him? He was cited for public urination and breaking other park rules.

https://gma.yahoo.com/nypd-lieutena...er-murder-192246665--abc-news-topstories.html
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Wow..600 DNA samples taken on the case according to the article


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
RainCheck said:
Please, stop. This is such backwards thinking it's scary. They haven't been able to YET. This is what research and science, both brain and behavioral, are for. It doesn't minimize the crime and it doesn't blame the victim.

As far as sadistic killers having once not had a criminal record, they may not have had a criminal record, but you can bet they exhibit some extreme signs of tendencies to violence and a lack of empathy. If we were able to see this mans childhood records, like we did in the Todd Kohlhepp case, I'm sure there would be the warning signs. Youre obsessed with punishment! No one is suggesting we punish children for things they haven't yet done. You don't get it! You treat them young so they don't end up becoming monsters later. Wouldn't it be nice if they could be taught to control these impulses rather than wait for them to brutally torture, rape and kill innocent people? This is what experts are working on and need support in doing so.
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Many of us have given credence and HOPE to these "studies" for decades now and have grown weary of hoping. Studies also cannot help what they don't see...generational abuse and neglect from birth...children having children at 14...cycles that are excused but continue unabated. A loving parent might seek out intervention. What can ""studies" do for a child whose basic needs are very met, who lays unattended while Mom goes clubbing. One wonders what Caylee Anthony might have grown up to be...after her nights in the car trunk.

This sister has the mindset. Let's immediately blame somebody else. Never accountibilty. Never shame.

It's becoming "backwards" to just continue excuse making and "studying" with the same horrors decades after decades.

Maybe the solution is a societal return to demanding just old fashioned accountability and shame. That is not obsession with punishment: it's an acceptance of the futility and failure of decades of "studies" and "excuses."

Stop! It's become like using leeches for cancer.

How refreshing it would have been to see this Family say something not like..."we love our son, but if he did this heinous crime, he deserves punishment and the Vetrano family deserves justice."

But no.
 
The case is being presented to a grand jury to consider sexual assault charges.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nypd-lieut...-catch-queens-jogger-murder/story?id=45298579

The Legal Aid Society, which is representing Lewis, said in a statement today, "We have a full defense team working on this case, including our DNA unit dedicated to scrutinizing the evidence collected by local authorities.

bbm Make note to self, never donate to this society.


Phil Vetrano told WABC-TV he will "absolutely" be at Lewis' trial. "Every minute of the day," he said.
 
colette said:
So then instead of 2nd degree murder they should change it to 1st degree. Premeditated bringing a condom and murder during a sexual assult.
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There are certain requirements in New York State for the charge of 1st degree murder. I think killing a law enforcement officer qualifies for 1st degree. I don't recall what any others are - but it can be looked up.

There was another case I was following in NY when I was surprised the charge wasn't 1st degree and that's when I did some research into it. I don't think premeditation automatically means 1st degree in NY.

Going off my memory....
 
From several posts back : The perp had gone out (stormed out) of the house to get something to eat-- and ran into K.V. and killed her in a fit of rage.

1. So, even though not employed --his family gave him pocket money ?

2. He just happened to cross paths with her ?


He was familiar with the area.. having stalked others there ; afaik. He must have had a fair idea what path she'd have run on --and where to 'surprise' her.
Wouldn't be at all surprised to find he noticed her earlier during her run--if not as soon as she started out --and put a plan in motion.

Did he know her at all , or her running schedule ( just by appearance alone ) -- and had already been 'observing' her ? :(

My .02 is that this was more premeditated than the perp says. Not that I believe one word out of his mouth at this time.
:moo:
 
Lewis was taken into custody over the weekend. A law enforcement official told Eyewitness News the suspect made two videotaped confessions. He indicated he was angry about something at home and left the apartment. He wandered into Spring Creek Park and when he saw Karina, he just "lost it." He said he hit her and choked her. He gave a detailed account of the attack but denied any sexual assault.

Evidence has been recovered at his apartment, including clothing he may have been wearing at the time of the attack.

http://abc7ny.com/news/nypd-karina-vetranos-fight-led-to-suspected-killer/1739723/

bbm

At an earlier news conference, Queens District Attorney Richard Brown said Lewis would also be charged with sexual assault.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/06/jogger-murder-suspect-i-strangled-her-because-i-was-angry/

“The perp said he had a bad temper. He confessed on video about the assault specifically. He did not want to admit to the rape,” a source claimed.
 
The perp had a few summons which have been described as public urination and breaking park rules. I looked up NYC park rules and the list is quite long. I'm GUESSING, however, that his violation falls under the category of Prohibited Uses:

Prohibited Uses:
Destruction or Abuse of Property and Equipment
Destruction or Abuse of Trees, Plants, Flowers, Shrubs and Grass
Littering, Polluting, Dumping, and Unattended Property
Restrictions on Glass
Aviation
Explosives, Firearms and Weapons
Abuse of Park Animals
Marijuana; Controlled Substances
Failure to Control Animals
Control and Removal of Animal Waste
Urination and Defecation in Parks
Disorderly Behavior
Loitering for Illegal Purposes
Unlawful Exposure
Obstruction of Sitting Areas
Unlawful Camping
Unlawful Spitting
Unhygienic Use of Fountains, Pools, and Water
Unlawful Solicitation

A more comprehensive list is at: https://www.nycgovparks.org/rules/summary
 
Elley Mae said:
Lewis was taken into custody over the weekend. A law enforcement official told Eyewitness News the suspect made two videotaped confessions. He indicated he was angry about something at home and left the apartment. He wandered into Spring Creek Park and when he saw Karina, he just "lost it." He said he hit her and choked her. He gave a detailed account of the attack but denied any sexual assault.

Evidence has been recovered at his apartment, including clothing he may have been wearing at the time of the attack.

http://abc7ny.com/news/nypd-karina-vetranos-fight-led-to-suspected-killer/1739723/

bbm

At an earlier news conference, Queens District Attorney Richard Brown said Lewis would also be charged with sexual assault.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/06/jogger-murder-suspect-i-strangled-her-because-i-was-angry/

“The perp said he had a bad temper. He confessed on video about the assault specifically. He did not want to admit to the rape,” a source claimed.
Click to expand...

Maybe he didn't want to admit to the rape (other than the obvious reason of not admitting guilt to LE) because he didn't rape in the usual way but with perhaps an object. Maybe he's either very ashamed of that or doesn't consider it rape.

Also, in the article from earlier today, his sister said he wasn't ready for a girlfriend and stressed that the family is religious. Maybe it was easier for him to admit he hit Karina than that he raped her. Maybe hitting someone is more acceptable in his mind while sex is taboo. TOTAL SPECULATION.

Or, maybe after confessing to the killing he told himself to stop confessing. IDK!

jmo
 
Inthedetails said:
Thanks for looking that up.

1st degree in NYS covers murder while committing rape. So maybe once rape charges are added, the murder charge will change to 1st??
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I doubt at this point a rape charge would stick after Det Boyce stated in the above video that they have no evidence of a rape.
A Defense Lawyer would have a field day with that charge.
 
Rocky1 said:
I doubt at this point a rape charge would stick after Det Boyce stated in the above video that they have no evidence of a rape.
A Defense Lawyer would have a field day with that charge.
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Wonder what the autopsy said regarding rape ? also the original crime scene photos ?
 
Elley Mae said:
This link from Rocky1, thanks

https://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/09...-jogger-karina-vetrano-moments-before-attack/

Vetrano was beaten "quite severely," suggesting she put up a "ferocious fight," NYPD Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce said in an Aug. 4 news conference. The medical examiner determined strangulation to be the cause of death, and officials have said she was sexually assaulted, WPIX reports.

bbm, Not sure that dna from a rapist has to be present, but seems that LE knows she was sexual assaulted. jmo

Investigators said without witnesses their best chance of finding Vetrano's killer was to create a DNA profile using a sneaker, ear buds and a used condom found at the scene, as well as DNA discovered on Vetrano's body.

bbm
Don't know if the used condom was used by suspect.
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The condom may have been used by him but no semen was found. He may have taken it off before he finished- if he finished. Sorry to be blunt, but he may have finished in the grass for all we know.
 
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