NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #4

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IMO we're missing something about what his summer days were like after graduating with a diploma from that particular HS, which we have now learned is designated for Emotionally Disturbed students.

I do not believe he would just be sent off on his own to discover his own path with no program/s in place for him - either vocational training, paid or unpaid internship (low level in his case due to, most likely, his lack of social skills, inability to cope and visible imo emotional probs), a very structured work program, OR another program to continue to develop life skills or a program to develop employment skills.

He is labelled Emotionally Disturbed and as he approached puberty and beyond, may have learned to mask some of it or simply became more ED. IMO, it not unusual in a highly structured good program to see improvement within the classroom setting, but that does not mean it necessarily carries through outside the highly structured and supportive school setting, though, of course, that would be the goal. In one of the videos I viewed, a reporter stated that a neighbor (believe female, did not want to be identified, nor spoke or shown on camera) described CL to her as a monster who terrorized some on the block/in the neighborhood. Nothing more than that one sentence. No details.

He was supposed to be somewhere else during the day, IMO, at least part of it. Without the intensive structure, did he attend whatever program or class that was most likely in place?

What about therapy, counseling? I'm sure there was a transition into something post-graduation.

I also noticed his diploma is dated August 14, 2016 (12 days after the murder). I cannot find anything to confirm whether the HS has a summer program (it may), and not positive, but don't think it's yearlong school. Did he have to complete or retake a course or two (July - August) in order to receive his diploma?

Had he been placed in a "job" or an unpaid internship, there might have been even more females murdered. I'd like to know what program he was placed in after graduation, and whether he attended such a program from graduation to arrest.

Also, curious as to thoughts about the mid-August date on diploma since school term ends late June.
 
I tend to agree with you. There is a photo of the perp on NYPost today that is a close-up. Yesterday I wondered if this guy could have facial hair yet as he seems "young" in maturity. But the close up makes me think he could indeed grow some hair on his face.

Shadows on CLs face could give the impression of facial hair, he also might have had debris like grass and dirt on his face due to creeping around in foliage, imo, speculation.

http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs...y-murder-of-queens-jogger-karina-vetrano.html
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"At the moment, we do believe it was a stranger rape in the sense that they have very extensively looked into her relationships over time, where she worked, her boyfriend's etc., and none of that has come to fruition as a potential actuality as it refers to the murder itself," Commissioner Bratton said.

http://abc7ny.com/news/new-video-shows-karina-vetrano-on-run-before-her-murder/1508490/

So then instead of 2nd degree murder they should change it to 1st degree. Premeditated bringing a condom and murder during a sexual assult.
 
I don't remember seeing anything in MSM that Karina was raped. He may have wanted to rape her but that could have changed after she fought him. The DNA was on her neck, back, under nails and on her phone. He could have had a condom but now I think he probably did not rape her. If anyone has a link showing evidence of rape I would like to see it. So far I have seen many people posting on here that she was raped but I sure don't remember seeing it in MSM.

They have stated since the beginning that she was raped. I remember reading she was raped "x2" because I had to figure out what that meant. If you google it lots of articles come up. Here is one http://nypost.com/2016/08/04/slain-jogger-fought-for-her-life-during-gruesome-attack/
 
"At the moment, we do believe it was a stranger rape in the sense that they have very extensively looked into her relationships over time, where she worked, her boyfriend's etc., and none of that has come to fruition as a potential actuality as it refers to the murder itself," Commissioner Bratton said.

http://abc7ny.com/news/new-video-shows-karina-vetrano-on-run-before-her-murder/1508490/

And this handy right now, but there are others:

<snip> At an earlier news conference, Queens District Attorney Richard Brown said Lewis would also be charged with sexual assault.

Cops have said Vetrano, 30, was raped during the attack off a jogging path in the park.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/06/jogger-murder-suspect-i-strangled-her-because-i-was-angry/
 
So then instead of 2nd degree murder they should change it to 1st degree. Premeditated bringing a condom and murder during a sexual assult.

I have the impression the used condom was not his.
 
If the attack on karina was fueled by his alleged "hatred of women", then what was fueling his walking around howard beach, scoping out cars, and going into people's backyards ? And didn't he have a crowbar on him ? It sounds like he was looking to do a B & E ...jmo
 
This link from Rocky1, thanks

https://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/09...-jogger-karina-vetrano-moments-before-attack/

Vetrano was beaten "quite severely," suggesting she put up a "ferocious fight," NYPD Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce said in an Aug. 4 news conference. The medical examiner determined strangulation to be the cause of death, and officials have said she was sexually assaulted, WPIX reports.

bbm, Not sure that dna from a rapist has to be present, but seems that LE knows she was sexual assaulted. jmo

Investigators said without witnesses their best chance of finding Vetrano's killer was to create a DNA profile using a sneaker, ear buds and a used condom found at the scene, as well as DNA discovered on Vetrano's body.

bbm
Don't know if the used condom was used by suspect.
 
Yes, Detective Boyce has said since day one she was raped x2. Was it sexual rape? Not sure. Was an object used? Not sure. But yes, it was out in the open since dag one that she was raped.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
 
Chism raped Colleen with a tree branch. So maybe the assault was of that nature ?
No less horrific.
 
This link from Rocky1, thanks

https://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/09...-jogger-karina-vetrano-moments-before-attack/

Vetrano was beaten "quite severely," suggesting she put up a "ferocious fight," NYPD Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce said in an Aug. 4 news conference. The medical examiner determined strangulation to be the cause of death, and officials have said she was sexually assaulted, WPIX reports.

bbm, Not sure that dna from a rapist has to be present, but seems that LE knows she was sexual assaulted. jmo

Investigators said without witnesses their best chance of finding Vetrano's killer was to create a DNA profile using a sneaker, ear buds and a used condom found at the scene, as well as DNA discovered on Vetrano's body.

bbm
Don't know if the used condom was used by suspect.

Maybe they found the perps pubic hair in or on her.[emoji53]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Below is a link where Det. Boyce states there is no evidence of a rape.

[video=youtube;SaAvqheyErw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaAvqheyErw[/video]

Time stamp 3:35
 
Thanks, I don't care. Murder has been around since the beginning. Perhaps the reason can be found primarily in the lack of punitive consequences running rampant in today's society. Instead of holding murders accountable, we look for reasons to justify their actions.

BBM. Looking for explanations to (for example) extreme criminal violence is not the same as excusing them. This seems to be a case in point. The alleged murderer of KV has no criminal record. No one has given him a pass from the consequences of his crimes. No bleeding heart has excused him from the sorts of "punitive consequences" you recommend. He should and will pay a price for the crimes he committed. But trying to figure out the who's, hows and whys of crimes would seem to be a prime motivator for visitors to sites like this one. IMO, naturally,
 
Yes, Detective Boyce has said since day one she was raped x2. Was it sexual rape? Not sure. Was an object used? Not sure. But yes, it was out in the open since dag one that she was raped.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

The impression I have is that she was obviously raped "x2" in a particularly heinous manner as reported early on, but as the investigation moved forward LE decided to put the lid on those details (for any number of reasons.) But I agree, there's never been a question as to the sexual nature of the attack.
 
His family will be in complete and utter shock, they will be horrified at what he is charged with, of course they do not want to believe he has done it, it will take a long time before they will begin to accept the truth and that LE appear to have a good solid case,

I also hope LE made sure he had full capacity to engage with the interview process and that any waiver he may have signed to decline a lawyer and agree to speak to them was done properly, I think he probably spoke without a lawyer present as a good lawyer would have advised their client to not speak to LE so as not to incriminate himself

I have seen many cases where a judge has thrown out confessions because LE did not follow all the correct procedures and law when interviewing a suspect.
 
A poster mentioned this earlier and I intended to comment....isn't it police protocol to cover all ER's in the local area after a brutal attack occurs? I'm just baffled that they apparently didn't do this.
 
BBM. Looking for explanations to (for example) extreme criminal violence is not the same as excusing them. This seems to be a case in point. The alleged murderer of KV has no criminal record. No one has given him a pass from the consequences of his crimes. No bleeding heart has given him a pass from the sorts of "punitive consequences" you recommend. He should and will pay a price for the crimes he committed. But trying to figure out the who's, hows and whys of crimes would seem to be a prime motivator for visitors to sites like this one. IMO, naturally,

All murderers at some point had no prior criminal history. Because of this guy's age I'm quite sure he's gotten away with plenty for a long period of time. He wasn't the salt-of-the-earth Forest Gump turned psychopathic killer overnight.

No one has been able to predict who will become a murderer or prevent murder from happening. There are clues, sure, but we don't punish people based on what they might do in the future. Understanding the minds of madness does nothing to deter crime other than satisfy our curiosity (and in many instances, unfortunately, it minimizes the crime, makes excuses for the perp and lays blame on the victim IMHO)
 
His family will be in complete and utter shock, they will be horrified at what he is charged with, of course they do not want to believe he has done it, it will take a long time before they will begin to accept the truth and that LE appear to have a good solid case,

I also hope LE made sure he had full capacity to engage with the interview process and that any waiver he may have signed to decline a lawyer and agree to speak to them was done properly, I think he probably spoke without a lawyer present as a good lawyer would have advised their client to not speak to LE so as not to incriminate himself

I have seen many cases where a judge has thrown out confessions because LE did not follow all the correct procedures and law when interviewing a suspect.

Well, his family really needs to prepare for trial when horrifying details comes out including pictures of her beadly beaten body, the same body that PV found of his own daughter.

Im really glad he was caught. I haves no doubt in my mind he would of continued. He escalated to murder fast.
 
I doubt that they are in "complete and utter shock." They have a son/brother who has been threatening violence against women for years; he had to attend an alternative school because of his behavior issues; headmits to having a violent temper and stormed out of the house on the day of a heinous murder in the area...and then returned home, injured.

They accepted his "story" then, but now, even after detailed confession and DNA match...they go public blaming the police.

No one with a son with this "history" including violent threats against women...can be that "shocked." The behavior of the family at this moment does not speak well of them or show respect for the Vetranos pain. I hope they are not going to make this into a "spectacle" to free their brother, without regard to truth or public safety.

They can and should support their son/brother with some dignity and consideration for the awful tragedy of the Vetranos.
 
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