NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #10

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Okay, back to the drawing board here. If Redbird says, he knows someone with a prosthesis, who can, I buy that. Personally, I got a once one in a leg and well, it never went okay again, but I still have the leg and I'm pretty sure I can't. On a side note, if you ever find an SK using tea carts, you can suspect me, but not otherwise :innocent:
But seriously, that brings us in the situation, we have to suspect CPH to be what? An SK, because he covered up something in one case of which we don't even have evidence whether the case is connected to the GB4? Because, theoretically, a 60+ year old guy with breathing problems and a missing leg is still able to carry bodies around? Well, okay, maybe he can, maybe he can't. And maybe 5.5 billion other people on this planet can or can't.
Now, there comes Brewer in again. Seriously, I think, Brewer threw a little drug party and CPH was his supplier. That's generally not unknown on LI, in the Hamptons and in certain areas if Fire Island as I hear from other writers living at the East Coast, but I got no names. So Gilbert took a little too much, got on a bad trip and something bad happened. CPH tried to wash himself clean and even more, he reacted panicky when suddenly the bodies popped up everywhere. See, all we can connect him to is Shannan Gilbert, and even that only in a round about way. Not Melissa Barthelmy, not Megan Waterman, not the other Gilgo Beach victims. Not even in a similar abstract way as to SG.
That leaves us with the body parts. He worked once near Manorville and he has named his boat Canyon Explorer probably because he has been to the Grand Canyon. But the idea, that in the Grand Canyon is his other dump site is just an idea. No evidence for it in the first place, not even a credible hint. And I bet, there were more people in the medical field who worked over the last 15 years in the medical field in or near Manorville.
Sorry, but to buy all this, I need a little more facts. Something, that would point to a psychopathology fitting either a narcissistic strangler or a torso killer, something forensic, some background information about his childhood, just something. :twocents:
 
Peter Brendt said:
Okay, back to the drawing board here. If Redbird says, he knows someone with a prosthesis, who can, I buy that. Personally, I got a once one in a leg and well, it never went okay again, but I still have the leg and I'm pretty sure I can't. On a side note, if you ever find an SK using tea carts, you can suspect me, but not otherwise :innocent:
But seriously, that brings us in the situation, we have to suspect CPH to be what? An SK, because he covered up something in one case of which we don't even have evidence whether the case is connected to the GB4? Because, theoretically, a 60+ year old guy with breathing problems and a missing leg is still able to carry bodies around? Well, okay, maybe he can, maybe he can't. And maybe 5.5 billion other people on this planet can or can't.
Now, there comes Brewer in again. Seriously, I think, Brewer threw a little drug party and CPH was his supplier. That's generally not unknown on LI, in the Hamptons and in certain areas if Fire Island as I hear from other writers living at the East Coast, but I got no names. So Gilbert took a little too much, got on a bad trip and something bad happened. CPH tried to wash himself clean and even more, he reacted panicky when suddenly the bodies popped up everywhere. See, all we can connect him to is Shannan Gilbert, and even that only in a round about way. Not Melissa Barthelmy, not Megan Waterman, not the other Gilgo Beach victims. Not even in a similar abstract way as to SG.
That leaves us with the body parts. He worked once near Manorville and he has named his boat Canyon Explorer probably because he has been to the Grand Canyon. But the idea, that in the Grand Canyon is his other dump site is just an idea. No evidence for it in the first place, not even a credible hint. And I bet, there were more people in the medical field who worked over the last 15 years in the medical field in or near Manorville.
Sorry, but to buy all this, I need a little more facts. Something, that would point to a psychopathology fitting either a narcissistic strangler or a torso killer, something forensic, some background information about his childhood, just something. :twocents:
Click to expand...

Canyon Explorer probably has more to do with the Hudson Canyon off-shore fishing in the Atlantic than it has to do with the Grand Canyon. But he didn drive his daughter out that way shortly after Shannan went missing.
 
@goathairjones: That was reference to an earlier post. Fine, so the boat is named after another canyon. I'm not much of a fisherman, more a fish eater. However, he did drive his daughter around in the Grand Canyon area short after Shannan went missing? And how many other people visited Grand Canyon and other landmarks in the Southwest, like two-thousand miles away in that time? Like the four weeks after Shannan disappeared? We've reached here a point, that alone the fact, that he breathed somewhere air is taken as evidence. But it isn't and that is what gives me the headaches.
 
At this stage, the thing that strikes me mostly clearly is that we have very, very little idea about these crimes. Contrary to what I read here, recent information does nothing to connect the four corpses in burlap with the victims recently described. And the diversity of the disposal methods (not to mention the time leap forward) lends some credence to the police's suspicion that as many of three killers might have been dumping bodies in this area. (And it's entirely possible that one of them isn't a serial killer.)

Oddest of all is that there still seems to be a continuing fixation on the Shannan Gilbert case; which, as far as we know, is not a murder case, much less linked to the Gilgo Four. (If it were, her absence from her place in the chronological sequence of the quartet requires some rationalization.)

Lastly, the new information was sparse and was presented not to show progress in the case, but to plead for help. And very little help seems to have been forthcoming. One story mentioned 22 tips received since the press conference, far fewer than the thousand plus received before.
 
We have 10 threads already in this case. Some have done some pretty painstaking research. I, for one, am so tired of this case, I don't have the energy to go through the many reasons I have to suspect CPH as a prime suspect. Especially since we now have more information about the Manorville murders going back to at least 1996, I ask myself who else has been around that long and knows well all the locations where people and body parts have been found. There is his unusual career considering he is a doctor. There is his involvement with the Oak Beach Association and his great familiarily with the wetlands, parks, etc. There are the documented phone calls to the family. There is his bizarre behavior and the fact that he has interjected himself into the case. There is the fact that he probably has enough money to rent a "killing place", a large freezer, and the knowledge of how to preserve and destroy bodies efficiently. I could go on and on, but I am too tired. I would be more than happy to hear of any credible information about any other potential suspect. I personally think Sharon Gilbert was likely killed by MP and the connection to the other victims may have been through MP and members of the "Oak Beach gang." Google searches for MP show that he has a history with Long Island going back to 1994 or before. I can't see JB being crafty enough and organized enough to be a serial killer. For the most part, I am now just waiting for this case to be solved and our questions to be answered, answers only LE can know.
 
@Chanler: The behavioral patterns show at least two SKs dropping bodies/body parts in the area. But I believe, one operates from NY at least for a part of the year while he isn't even around at the east coast for the cold months. That would be, at least in my reading, LISK2 who left us the GB4.
The other one resides probably somewhere between Manorville and the coast. Torso Killers usually don't stage their messages right in their backyard. But then, it's a nasty bunch because a lot of them is really intelligent in a very malignant way.
The usual way to figure out those guys would be profiling and then drag netting. Unfortunately, profiling at the FBI appeared to have reached a new low point here and I guess, nobody here has a sufficient good contact to the SCPD to introduce some new ideas to them?
 
I've done a little research on CPH's role in all of this. He claims, in a letter he wrote to "48 Hours" that he met Alex (SG's "boyfriend") and MP a few days after the incident when they had come to Oak Beach to try to find SG. They took his card and asked him to call SG's mother. Apparently CPH called Alex and SG's mother on 5/6/10 and spoke to each for 4 minutes. On 5/9/11 he called SG's sister and spoke again for 4 minutes. He claim the calls were only to offer any help he could give but he denied ever telling any on them that he had ever actually met SG or have any arrangements to "treat" her. This is clearly at odds with what the mother claims.

I would assume LE has discussed this with Alex and MP. I would think that had he told MP that he had "arranged treatment" for SG, we would have heard about it.

I can't see any obvious reason he would have called any of them, much less claiming to arrange for some kind of treatment for her. It is possible, I suppose, that he was trying to get the mother and sister to "drop their search for SG". That may have worked for a few days but it would be unrealistic to expect the mother and sister to drop the hunt for SG forever. It sound bizarre that, were he responsible for SG's death, he would set himself up to be a prime suspect. Interestingly, he claims he heard nothing from both the mother and sister and LE until April 2011, almost a year after SG went missing and 4 months after the 4 bodies were found. I would have expected the mother and sister to have called LE about the call from CPH after a few days had gone by without hearing from SG. I would have expected LE to be all over CPH. Is it possible that the mother and sister didn't tell LE about the CPH call until 4/11? That would certainly undermine their credibility.

I really don't know what to think. I haven't heard much about CPH in a while and the last I could find, LE seemed to play him down as a suspect without formally "clearing him". He refers to conversations he had with 48 Hours producers and the letters are from him, not an attorney. It doesn't sound like he has lawyered up. I'm wondering if LE hasn't written him of as a crank.
 
@Kemo: This is all no news, but you question is one, I haven't seen here on the board at least. The point is, what did LE know after SG disappeared? In fact, they had some kind of weird report of a woman which appeared, as if she was drugged at the time she called and a second one of a man, she met (forgot his name) when she was fleeing from Brewer's house which also indicated, she was on drugs. Add to this her history of drug abuse and you know, what LE probably did at that time - nothing. Things only boiled up when they found the bodies at Gilgo Beach, but then, someone reacted fast and put two and two together - only to get out five - because till the bodies were identified, everyone assumed, SG would be one of them. Rumor has it, the dogs weren't there in the first place to search for Gilbert, but the whole thing was a normal exercise till one dog found something. So even if the family has told LE about the calls, I doubt, they reacted. Missing person cases, especially with drug abuse backgrounds, are not really top priority.
Now about all the calls. If CPH is not a hardcore SK but just a little druggie supporting his friends of the Oak Beach Party Club, he would have felt the need to wash himself prophylactic clean in case, Brewer would accuse him in the process. And this need became even bigger, when the bodies were found and LE jumped on Brewer. His planless, panicky behavior would fit much more this scenario than the theory, he is the big bad serial killer. Admittedly, most SKs are pathetic, once they are caught, so being pathetic is not evidence, he isn't one, but the rest doesn't sit right. This guy has a prosthetic, breathing problems and bad nerves.
 
goathairjones said:
I think the injury goes back to the 1990's. He was helping someone out who broke down on the side of the road. I believe it was on Sunrise Highway out east. And as he was helping this stranded vehicle, someone veered off onto the shoulder and hit him. I think he almost died as a result of this incident. But I am pretty sure that he lost at least one leg as a result of this accident. I do not know the details and I am not even sure if what I heard from my friend is correct. She lives in West Oak Beach and told me that this guy is the nicest guy in the world.

I will attempt to find out more info.
Click to expand...

The details of the accident are unverified, but I like the years 1985 - 1987 for the accident as the verified drug treatment and rehabilitation was during 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991. Yes the substance abuse could be entirely unrelated to the accident, but if the trauma led to pain killer abuse, which seems fairly likely then the years leading to the substance abuse treatment seem logical.

snipped from attached court order:

"Irrespective of the foregoing, this Court finds that Dr. Hackett is entitled to a protective order vacating the Notice of Discovery and Inspection filed by plaintiffs counsel which seeks authorizations for “medical care providers furnishing care and treatment to [Dr. Hackett] for substance abuse for the period one year prior to the incidents at issue and two years subsequent to said occurrence."

The "occurrence" was on January 17th, 1989. Which places the timeframe for rehab for substance abuse from January 1988 through January 1991. (roughly).
 

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:coffeews: anyone in the area with Wayne as a middle name?
 
Peter Brendt said:
@Chanler: The behavioral patterns show at least two SKs dropping bodies/body parts in the area. But I believe, one operates from NY at least for a part of the year while he isn't even around at the east coast for the cold months. That would be, at least in my reading, LISK2 who left us the GB4.
The other one resides probably somewhere between Manorville and the coast. Torso Killers usually don't stage their messages right in their backyard. But then, it's a nasty bunch because a lot of them is really intelligent in a very malignant way.
The usual way to figure out those guys would be Iand then drag netting. Unfortunately, profiling at the FBI appeared to shave reached a new low point here and I guess, nobody here has a sufficien?t good contact to the SCPD to introduce some new ideas to them?
Click to expand...

Is the term "torso killer" an official term used by profilers or is this a term you have coined? Is there some literature where I can learn more about "torso killers?"
 
Redbird said:
Is the term "torso killer" an official term used by profilers or is this a term you have coined? Is there some literature where I can learn more about "torso killers?"
Click to expand...

I googled the term and only derived information about the Cleveland Torso Killer. He murdered, decapitated etc., twelve victims and was never captured. But "torso killer" doesn't appear to be a specific term in criminology or its ilk.
 
Okay, so as much as we would like some more clues or real inside information, it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I've brainstormed until the end of my rope and I don't feel inspired to figure anything further. So many are so done with this sk saga and no longer post on this board. I guess if we receive some meaty information it will heighten the activity around here. I hate to say it but this board will become highly active again in about 8-10 years if (and that's a big IF) SCPD is able to make an arrest.
 
Claudette said:
Two complaints from the presser:

We have seen pictures of the sketches in news articles, but I have yet to see clear pictures of the jewelry. I would like to see them.

Why is it that the two most distinct aspects of the male (missing teeth and dressing as a female...more than likely if he was wearing those clothes it extended to hair and makeup) are not in the sketch? No one is going to recognize him from that picture.
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I believe that information about the missing teeth, woman's clothes, and being a transvestite prostitute was released to the press to mock the SK. They may even know this man is not related in anyway to the demise of the GB4 - if they can make it look like his murder was done by the same SK,(all over the press) this might piss him off.. (if that makes sense, i think you get my drift).He might feel the need to make contact and set the record straight..The profilers are not stupid, everything released at a press conference is for a specific reason. This is key in solving most cases, the manor at which the info is released. I'm curious to hear about the tips they are receiving.
 
Some pages back we discussed putting together a timeline and a summary of this case stating verified facts. The longer a case proceeds with no new information from LE the more it seems people interject rumors and the more people new to the case want to express their views but do not want to read through the case thoroughy. This can be very annoying and inconsiderate for new members to expect to be spoonfed the facts. Websleuths has emerged as the best crime forum site because our rules prevent our discussions degenerating into the sort of free-for-all one sees at other forums. The LISK site is discussing possible POI's we are not allowed to discuss here. Perhaps some who are protesting comments about CPH would find that site more interesting. When misinformation crops up here we work hard to correct it so we can be proud of work that anyone can review years later and have valuable information for research on any case they become interested in. End of sermon. Disclaimer: Not directed at any one in particular.
 
Sistah Sleuth said:
I googled the term and only derived information about the Cleveland Torso Killer. He murdered, decapitated etc., twelve victims and was never captured. But "torso killer" doesn't appear to be a specific term in criminology or its ilk.
Click to expand...

if you want to read about someone who I believe is the most similar to our SK, read about John Edward Robinson ("the white collar SK"-me)

Robinson didn't fit the profile of a SK, he was too old, too nice, soft spoken, not physically capable, looked professional in a tie, etc. which made him so disarming. By the time he was in LE radar he was an older man and his education and skills were more refined than almost all violent criminals. The average person would never suspect him of being a criminal if they came in contact with him. All of which made it very easy for him to manipulate his victims, family and law enforcement. Trusting people were easily fooled by him and believed his lies time after time.

He recruited girls using different methods, but generally under the guise of helping them and making them think he could improve their present and future situation in life. He lured young girls and sometimes young mothers away from halfway house situations.

He both directly and indirectly mislead investigators away from himself through phone calls and letters and even manipulated others to help mislead the investigation away from himself.

He did all of this while playing a visible role in his community, maintaining an image of a do gooder, good neighbor, family man, and was quick to point out his stellar civic life.

Robinson was the type of person that if you didn't look very, very closely at his entire past, dig up all of his smaller, varying, infractions, you would never suspect him and he would have gotten away with the murders.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edward_Robinson_%28serial_killer%29[/ame]

Do you see the similarities in style between Robinson and the LISK that I do?
 
truthspider said:
if you want to read about someone who I believe is the most similar to our SK, read about John Edward Robinson ("the white collar SK"-me)

Robinson didn't fit the profile of a SK, he was too old, too nice, soft spoken, not physically capable, looked professional in a tie, etc. which made him so disarming. By the time he was in LE radar he was an older man and his education and skills were more refined than almost all violent criminals. The average person would never suspect him of being a criminal if they came in contact with him. All of which made it very easy for him to manipulate his victims, family and law enforcement. Trusting people were easily fooled by him and believed his lies time after time.

He recruited girls using different methods, but generally under the guise of helping them and making them think he could improve their present and future situation in life. He lured young girls and sometimes young mothers away from halfway house situations.

He both directly and indirectly mislead investigators away from himself through phone calls and letters and even manipulated others to help mislead the investigation away from himself.

He did all of this while playing a visible role in his community, maintaining an image of a do gooder, good neighbor, family man, and was quick to point out his stellar civic life.

Robinson was the type of person that if you didn't look very, very closely at his entire past, dig up all of his smaller, varying, infractions, you would never suspect him and he would have gotten away with the murders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edward_Robinson_(serial_killer)

Do you see the similarities in style between Robinson and the LISK that I do?
Click to expand...

Thank you for this information. From what you describe, he is just about exactly the image I have in mind about our current oven roasted nut. I really don't trust information from wiki so I'm going to try and find out more about him on crimelibrary.com. I'll be back with more comments.
 
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