NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #12

[future criminologist]

I still have not heard a good awnser for why pac after being asked to come in the house because shannon was freaking out saying thier trying to kill me and he simply says have you seen the movie fear and loathing in las vegas she says yes and he said she's fine and goes back outside . how does seeing a movie mean your cohearant and better yet if he thinks she is cohearant then wouldn't you be more abliged to believe what she was saying but no he just up and goes back out to the car .

Yeah, I thought that was really odd too...if you're trying to determine if someone's coherent, that's definitely not the first question I would be asking. Then again, most of his interview with pretty odd and he seemed to be trying to choose his words carefully, because let's not forget, he's a human trafficker, so he can't make it look like he was her pimp (I think he definitely was).

Why hasn't anyone brought up the issue of SG's bipolar disorder as a factor? A manic episode or bad interaction between drugs and her meds, or going off her bipolar meds could easily explain all of her behavior that night. I am bipolar II (meaning I don't have manic episodes) but I have a good friend that is bipolar I (classic high highs and low lows), and I've been around him during a manic episode before, and it presents like the person has done too much meth or coke. Eventually, if it is not treated, it can turn into psychosis and paranoia. Which fits exactly with what everyone reported her behavior as that night. Especially if she did drugs with JB - one of the biggest reasons I have never done anything more than smoke weed (and had a really bad experience with that one) is because I don't want to risk a bad interaction with anything I'm already taking. If a bipolar stops taking their meds, AND they do coke or drink, they could easily become manic very quickly. When my friend became manic he thought everyone around him was a Nazi (he's Jewish). It's kind of hard to explain unless you've experienced it yourself or been around a bipolar during an episode, but I think it's a perfectly reasonable explanation for what happened that night, and I find it interesting that despite that we know she was a diagnosed bipolar, no one in her family, or on the boards, has posed this scenario.

 

[future criminologist]

If she was hot from a manic episode or from a bad high - or from the paranoia/delusion that comes from either of those - I could see how she would strip down and leave her stuff there before going in the water, or even just as she was running. Maybe she didn't even think it was water - when my friend mentioned above had his manic episode, he hid in a closet. He told his friends he believed it was a portal to take him to Jerusalem - and he also told his friends he thought he might be the Messiah. Bipolar disorder makes you do crazy ***** you can't explain.

 

[Clem Snide]

If she was hot from a manic episode or from a bad high - or from the paranoia/delusion that comes from either of those - I could see how she would strip down and leave her stuff there before going in the water, or even just as she was running. Maybe she didn't even think it was water - when my friend mentioned above had his manic episode, he hid in a closet. He told his friends he believed it was a portal to take him to Jerusalem - and he also told his friends he thought he might be the Messiah. Bipolar disorder makes you do crazy ***** you can't explain.

I used to work on a psych unit and bipolar disorder can indeed lead to psychosis. There's a notable difference in psychosis caused by bipolar disorder and psychosis caused by schizophrenia. Patients with bipolar psychosis seem to have far more disorganized thoughts and tend to act a lot more erratically.

Although I don't specifically recall psychosis being brought on by cocaine usage, I've seen multiple instances of THC causing prolonged (as in days) episodes. I'd have to think that cocaine, which can cause panic in people who aren't bipolar, could be a trigger for major panic in people who do.

That's why think it's possible that something small freaked her out and she ran into the marsh and drowned. Then again, I also think she could have been murdered. If and when they find her remains they hopefully can establish cause of death, though it's been two years....

 

[iceman2323]

To be honest I think SG falling into the water would sound far fetched even if this was an isolated incident. Don't buy into a few news reports and use some logic PLEASE! It doesn't add up...she was a prostitute in a remote beach area that used craigslist to find clients and that remote area was the dumping ground for 10 others. How can anyone honestly believe that this is just a coincidence?

 

[WI1987]

Shannan Gilbert, police said, may have just wandered into a mucky area and drowned.

"The detectives who have been closest to the case have always believed it wasn't murder," Suffolk County Police Chief of Detectives Dominick Varrone said yesterday.

The items recovered and their locations are indicative of a person running wildly into a marshy area in the dark, Varrone said.

www.newsday.com/news/breaking/cops-shannan-gilbert-in-there-someplace-1.3372379
^ article about the searches on Wednesday Dec 7th

 

[dcgrumpy]

To be honest I think SG falling into the water would sound far fetched even if this was an isolated incident. Don't buy into a few news reports and use some logic PLEASE! It doesn't add up...she was a prostitute in a remote beach area that used craigslist to find clients and that remote area was the dumping ground for 10 others. How can anyone honestly believe that this is just a coincidence?

So do you believe that either MP or JB are the serial killer? Or do you think she just happened to run into a serial killer?

Coming to JB's house with a driver, purse and cell phone doesn't really fit with the MO of the other murders.

 

[the quiet girl]

When I learned Shannan was bi-polar the next thought was that it explained the paranoia, if that is what it is. With this said it still does not explain the doctor calling and her disappearance. The chances of another party (SK) coming across her and taking Shannan is slim to none, imo.
How can this young girl just vanish into thin air? impossible
This is the direct fault of the cops not doing their due diligence, the answer is in this area of homes.
I do wish the family of Shannan would file a civil suit to force the people involved to talk.

 

[snapdragon2]

Yeah, I thought that was really odd too...if you're trying to determine if someone's coherent, that's definitely not the first question I would be asking. Then again, most of his interview with pretty odd and he seemed to be trying to choose his words carefully, because let's not forget, he's a human trafficker, so he can't make it look like he was her pimp (I think he definitely was).

Why hasn't anyone brought up the issue of SG's bipolar disorder as a factor? A manic episode or bad interaction between drugs and her meds, or going off her bipolar meds could easily explain all of her behavior that night. I am bipolar II (meaning I don't have manic episodes) but I have a good friend that is bipolar I (classic high highs and low lows), and I've been around him during a manic episode before, and it presents like the person has done too much meth or coke. Eventually, if it is not treated, it can turn into psychosis and paranoia. Which fits exactly with what everyone reported her behavior as that night. Especially if she did drugs with JB - one of the biggest reasons I have never done anything more than smoke weed (and had a really bad experience with that one) is because I don't want to risk a bad interaction with anything I'm already taking. If a bipolar stops taking their meds, AND they do coke or drink, they could easily become manic very quickly. When my friend became manic he thought everyone around him was a Nazi (he's Jewish). It's kind of hard to explain unless you've experienced it yourself or been around a bipolar during an episode, but I think it's a perfectly reasonable explanation for what happened that night, and I find it interesting that despite that we know she was a diagnosed bipolar, no one in her family, or on the boards, has posed this scenario.

All of this has in fact been discussed at length before.

My mother had manic depression and had a full-out psychotic break during which time she thought the Mafia and IRA were digging a tunnel into our rec room (...go figure@ She laughed about it later.) In retrospect she showed signs of manic depression for years prior (I guess bi-polar is what it's called now but not back then) and wasn't diagnosed until this total breakdown. This actual episode happened rather quickly - more or less overnight (although as I've said it wasn't really overnight since there were years leading up to it.)

Anyway - my feeling is that Shannan's behaviour had nothing to do with being bi-polar. I think her family would have a better sense of her cycling (if she in fact did) and how the illness presented itself in her and it appears to me they do not feel that is what happened - nothing like that had happened before.

There is still a stigma in our society against mental illness and people are too quick to jump on the bandwagon when they hear she was bi-polar and just assume what happened is connected to that. I respectfully disagree: it's not that simple - the addition of drugs or not, she wouldn't just go off the deep end that quickly as a result of her illness. There would have been signs she was headed that way prior, and it still wouldn't have happened like that. People with bi-polar disorder aren't raving lunatics ready to pop off at any second. It bothers me because poor Shannan already has one strike against her in that she was an escort. Why is it so hard to believe that she might have had good reason to act the way she did?

In the radio interview, her sister Sherre said she believed Shannan was drugged. That makes sense to me - realizing she had been drugged might have been what set her off and sent her into her initial panic.

 

[Salem]

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[snapdragon2]

So do you believe that either MP or JB are the serial killer? Or do you think she just happened to run into a serial killer?

Coming to JB's house with a driver, purse and cell phone doesn't really fit with the MO of the other murders.

Is it not possible that she wasn't originally brought there with the intention of being victimized, but something happened which "necessitated" silencing her?

 

[snapdragon2]

If she was hot from a manic episode or from a bad high - or from the paranoia/delusion that comes from either of those - I could see how she would strip down and leave her stuff there before going in the water, or even just as she was running. Maybe she didn't even think it was water - when my friend mentioned above had his manic episode, he hid in a closet. He told his friends he believed it was a portal to take him to Jerusalem - and he also told his friends he thought he might be the Messiah. Bipolar disorder makes you do crazy ***** you can't explain.

You don't go from perfectly fine to out of your head in two hours because of bi-polar disorder. There would be indications something is up prior to that - she would have already been acting weird and be well on her way to having an episode or psychotic break or whatever, if that is what happened. There's no indication that she had ever experienced anything like that before, or that she ever had any real manic episodes, period.

It also sounds to me that Shannan was intelligent, savvy and professional in her job. She may have "partied" with clients (although I'm pretty sure Sherre also said that she didn't - that she was careful to stay in control) but even if she did, I'd bet she did it within reason with an eye to her own safety. Something happened to her that caused her to freak out.

 

[TamgMit]

Just kind of curious someone mention coke.. just wondered if there was a possibility that SG could of possibility gotten into designer drugs such as bath salts or what they call monkey dust. Seems a lot of the things people are describing happening or finding can be sign's or symptoms of OD on this nasty stuff.. from aggitation, paranoid/ delusional thought process..to the increasing heart rate causing the sweats which probably could be cause of her stripping off her clothes as she is running down the road. Hallucinations. Have to wonder cause some of the woman's boyfriends where also drug dealers.. . Just a passing thought.

 

[future criminologist]

To be honest I think SG falling into the water would sound far fetched even if this was an isolated incident. Don't buy into a few news reports and use some logic PLEASE! It doesn't add up...she was a prostitute in a remote beach area that used craigslist to find clients and that remote area was the dumping ground for 10 others. How can anyone honestly believe that this is just a coincidence?

I really do think it could be a one-in-a-million coincidence. Or for those that believe in angels or divine intervention, SG led people to the other women, so it doesn't really matter how she died - her going missing in that area led to a massive uncovering that really needed to be discovered.

It is pretty unbelievable though, isn't it?

 

[future criminologist]

You don't go from perfectly fine to out of your head in two hours because of bi-polar disorder. There would be indications something is up prior to that - she would have already been acting weird and be well on her way to having an episode or psychotic break or whatever, if that is what happened. There's no indication that she had ever experienced anything like that before, or that she ever had any real manic episodes, period.

It also sounds to me that Shannan was intelligent, savvy and professional in her job. She may have "partied" with clients (although I'm pretty sure Sherre also said that she didn't - that she was careful to stay in control) but even if she did, I'd bet she did it within reason with an eye to her own safety. Something happened to her that caused her to freak out.

I respectfully disagree - no one in her family or who spoke to her in the days leading up to it said anything about what her status was with her meds. When you miss a dose or stop taking them suddenly or even tapering the dosage it is very easy to spiral quickly into mania. It could have also been triggered by something she took at the client's house, or even by alcohol - no matter how professional you are at your job, you never know just how your brain chemistry will react.

With no disrespect intended to Ms. G and her family, several sources in the news articles I've read have said she had used prescription drugs, marijuana, and cocaine recreationally. That doesn't make her a unintelligent, unprofessional person. I know intelligent, professional people who do recreational drugs. No matter how in control of a situation you think you are, you add a chemical imbalance in the brain plus a drug - again, we don't know if she was or was not on taking anything for bipolar - PLUS anything else that affects your brain chemistry and anything could happen really. A friend of a friend tried cocaine for the first time and jumped off the roof of his house. I am the only person I know who can't just chill out and relax when smoking weed - I have the opposite reaction of everyone I know, I get insanely hyper and paranoid and anxious, which is why I'll never smoke it again. And you never know what the hell else weed or coke is going to be laced with.

All I'm saying is, to me her actions that night indicate that her bipolar disorder and/or a drug reaction cannot be ruled out as being a factor that night.

 

[Sillybilly]

Today's Newsday article says they found shoes. I found an old article that says she was wearing strappy black sandals when she disappeared.

from:
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214

Shannan Gilbert stood on a clamorous street in midtown Manhattan, ready for work.

It was April 30, 2010, a seasonably warm spring Friday night. Clad in tight dark jeans, black strappy sandals, a low-cut blouse, and a brown leather jacket, she wore her blond hair loose over silver hoop earrings.

then

At the corner of 32nd Street and 6th Avenue, she pulled out her cellphone and called her driver, Michael Pak, he said. It was 10:02 p.m.

Her mood was calm, Pak would later recall. "She sounded normal," he said. "Everything was OK. Inside Pak's SUV, Gilbert changed into dark leather boots and posted an ad on Craigslist, he said. By midnight, she was at her first appointment, a man in a nearby apartment, Pak said.

So, it was earlier in the day that she was known to be wearing the black strappy sandals. She then changed into dark leather boots. We've never heard an account as to whether or not she changed back to her black strappy sandals before going to JB's.

 

[future criminologist]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vanished-18-months-ago.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Michael Pak was her driver on the night she went missing and claims the latest finding suggests she could have fallen into the water herself, if her phone or wallet was found still in her purse.

‘Shannan always wanted to be famous - and now she is famous,’ Mr Pak, of Jersey City, told the New York Post.

Wtf..

He's a sociopath. I don't think he cared for her as a person at all. She was a way to make money to him and that's it. In his interviews he was all smug and even laughing - and wearing sunglasses inside! Who does that? And now he probably views it as an inconvenience that because of her disappearance he has to do all these interviews.

 

[Clem Snide]

He's a sociopath. I don't think he cared for her as a person at all. She was a way to make money to him and that's it. In his interviews he was all smug and even laughing - and wearing sunglasses inside! Who does that? And now he probably views it as an inconvenience that because of her disappearance he has to do all these interviews.

Yeah. The driver and the boyfriend weren't exactly prizes, were they? MP seemed weird to me. And the fact that the boyfriend (pimp?) broke her jaw kind of speaks for itself.

 

[Sillybilly]

Re the footprints in the sand as opposed to shoeprints in the sand:

from:
http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index1.html

As the sun rose and the police finally arrived, 45 minutes after Coletti had called them, the only trace of Shannan Gilbert was a set of footprints in the sand, heading in the general direction of an empty, overlooked stretch of shore called Gilgo Beach.

Don't know how anyone knew they were Shannan's footprints leading to the beach. That aside, seems Shannan didn't have her shoes on while running (south?) towards the beach. She apparently had ditched her leather jacket up the road but, panic stricken as she was, by gum she was hanging onto that purse/wallet/pocketbook and her footwear. She must have veered back (north?) towards the marsh, still clutching those items before ditching them in the muddy marsh, stopping to remove and toss her jeans along with them, and then .... I dunno ... vapourized maybe?

 

[scandi]

from:
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214



then




So, it was earlier in the day that she was known to be wearing the black strappy sandals. She then changed into dark leather boots. We've never heard an account as to whether or not she changed back to her black strappy sandals before going to JB's.

So she would have had a bag to carry her boots in, maybe a change of pants. Would a gal in this situation bring her bag inside or leave it in the car?

I was thinking the jeans found could have been an extra pair but now think they came off her with the time and weather since she went missing. What that matters I don't know, but if she was murdered, wouldn't you think the killer would hide or dispose of her items? The cell, he must not have been worried it might tell a tale on him or he would have crushed it, right?

 

[scandi]

Re the footprints in the sand as opposed to shoeprints in the sand:

from:
http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index1.html



Don't know how anyone knew they were Shannan's footprints leading to the beach. That aside, seems Shannan didn't have her shoes on while running (south?) towards the beach. She apparently had ditched her leather jacket up the road but, panic stricken as she was, by gum she was hanging onto that purse/wallet/pocketbook and her footwear. She must have veered back (north?) towards the marsh, still clutching those items before ditching them in the muddy marsh, stopping to remove and toss her jeans along with them, and then .... I dunno ... vapourized maybe?

It was noted in an article {???} that the son living at 33 Anchor Way stated they saw her footprints in the sand. I'll go find the link. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/victims_found_killer_joined_beach_j1Hp5kTApp34jyyTtMQefJ

Snippet '*advertiser censored* Canning, 20, who lives in the area, also recalled the last time he saw the woman.

"That was the last time she was seen. We saw her footprints in the sand. She was in a panic. We thought she was on drugs."