NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

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Do you think she pegged him and it scared the heck out of her?


That's what I suspect scandi, that SG discovered something very dark and menacing while she was at JB's, and it scared the L out of her.

Maybe, as I've speculated on before, SG saw something that led her to believe a group of people at that party was going to do something to or with her, like kidnap her and send her into the sex slave trade?

Maybe those purveyors of human flesh wanted to take a 'test ride', so to speak. Most people that buy things want to see how they meet with certain expectations they have in regard to suitability for a particular purpose.
 
That could very well be it.

I just don't understand why she may have refused to leave JB's house and then head straight for GC's house? She wanted to be inside instead of outside? Inside was safer than outside?

Clarification: I am of the opinion that Shannan Gilbert selected GC's house to seek refuge in because his house appeared to be the only one astir at that hour of the morning. IMO, she would of run to any house that showed signs of activity.
Yes, Gus was awake and shaving, right? And she did knock on two other doors after she left GC's - the Canning house and BB's house. Both answered the door for her as they each said they offered to call 911 for her. That means the lights were on at those houses too. It was getting light. Evidently Dr U's home didn't have lights on as she didn't knock there, although there are beaucoup stairs to go up to get to his front door I think which could rule it out.

Does anyone know which house belongs to BB? I know it is down where Anchor Way becomes The Bayou and then Hatch Way St. Nothing is showing anything for me :banghead:


Reviewing, This seems odd to me. She knocked on Gus's door, ran around to Anchor Way, didn't knock on the address 32 Anchor Way, didn't knock on the huge house at 33 Anchor Way and then knocked on 35 Anchor way and BB's house wherever that is, down by the Bayou St/Hatch Way. Why did she skip both 32 and 33 Anchor Way? Could it be a clue? No lights on either house? Did she know someone who lived in one of those houses?

Yea, goin' crazy I am, I am. lol


I want to find that address thinking it is where someone tried to pull her into a car or truck, last place she was seen at BB's unless you believe CPH saying he saw her that night and brought her to his house. I've got to get that nailed down in my head !!!
 
Could the presence of a large body of water have inspired a possible drowning theory?


When GC and MP speculated that SG had drowned, no one had any reason to believe SG was not alive. Why did GC and MP both put forth theories that alluded to SG's demise?
 
I hope I didn't insult you or anyone else here at WS (who also post at the lisk site) <snip>

If I did, I apologize!

After looking at your comment history, I have to ask: do you have your own theory about what happened, or do you just come to WS to try to pick apart every post you read?

Constructive criticism is a good thing, until it becomes the sole premise upon which you base your comments.
 
Could it also indicate the possibility that SG didn't trust GC? Even if SG feared being arrested, that is certainly a better option than facing death.

Maybe SG had seen GC at JB's party, and she knew GC wasn't going to help her?

It's also quite strange that JB said SG ran toward GC's house. Especially in light of GC's own comment that he didn't know JB. It's also quite strange that GC and MP both speculated that SG went into the water and drowned, which not long afterward became the main theory the SCPD believed took place.

Pretty hinky don't you think? JB and GC had both lived in Oak Beach for years. How could they have not known each other? I need to verify when they each bought their homes. Just MOO anyway. lol

One more thing, I read a post where the author talked about GC's profession as an insurance fraud investigator. He didn't give me the feeling he would be knowledgeable in that type of job but it could be his age had changed him allot.
 
Jimmydo, regarding Comment #299: That is very telling. No bodies had been found yet. If you knew a freaked out woman had run away from a suspicious looking man, would you immediately think she was dead? Only if you were the killer or only if you had heard the 911 call. Both JB and MP heard the 911 call, or at least parts of it. But why would GC think she had drowned instead of thinking she had gotten away from MP, was hiding, or had been rescued by somebody.
 
@snapdragon2
Thank you… I have been thinking about this case almost non-stop for months. I have so many pieces of information that it’s been difficult to put them together. I like complex problems and believe you can't solve the overall problem if you don’t work the details. I am especially curious about the events after Shannan turned the corner onto Anchor and the exact response LE took that morning (some accounts say 1 officer/1 car, some say more than one officer, some say officers, dogs and helicopters – so ???). Those subjects will be my initial posts. I do have an overall theory and I believe there is a connection between Shannan and the 4 Gilgo and 4 AC (not the others found on Gilgo).

@claudicici
Thank you…
Re “sleepy” I was actually being facetious. I agree with you - anything but sleepy. That officer knew exactly in what community he was. He put on kid gloves before he arrived.

@jimmydo
Very informative post, thank you. I had meant that given all the (in my view, intentional) uncollected and missing evidence, that “inconclusive” would be the safe evaluation for the ME – it would allow for anyone’s agenda and appear unbiased. I know very little about this particular field and did a lot of research on “controversial” deaths and it seemed they are often deemed inconclusive. I will study the info you gave. If the ME says drowning, I’ll have more questions.

@bodhi93
I watched 48 Hours on my computer and took print screens of the close-up shots of the surveillance equipment and then pulled the product specs from the manufacturer's website. I’d like to know if there are other cameras in that community set up by individual residents (not just pointing at their own homes, but at certain areas of the community).

Neptune
 
When GC and MP speculated that SG had drowned, no one had any reason to believe SG was not alive. Why did GC and MP both put forth theories that alluded to SG's demise?

The following post is my opinion and my opinion only:

Didn't GC perceive Shannan Gilbert to be in some way mentally compromised when she was at his house? Didn't he say that she had trouble standing and almost fell?

It has been my experience (I was a lifeguard for over a decade. I worked at swimming pools, fresh water beaches and salt water beaches. I have management experience in this field as well.) that when you mix a mentally compromised (maybe) individual and a body of water of any size, let alone an ocean, bad things can happen. I can understand and appreciate why somone would consider drowning a possibility when an adult woman seemingly vanishes into thin air.
 
This article is really interesting... it has a lot of information pulled together about the life of Shannon and the last night Shannon was known to be alive. I had not heard before that her boyfriend, AD, was responsible for having broken her jaw. Apparently, MP was in Brewer's house during Shannon's 911 call because his voice is heard on that 911 tape. So, he was in the house where she suddenly felt threatened enough to call 911. He watched her run away - down to GC's, and then he briefly chased her as she ran into the marsh? How could he have lost her?

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html
 
After looking at your comment history, I have to ask: do you have your own theory about what happened, or do you just come to WS to try to pick apart every post you read?

Constructive criticism is a good thing, until it becomes the sole premise upon which you base your comments.

I am in the process of exploring a possible theory. Right now I am exploring the possibility that the perp is a computer geek who is a competent hacker/cracker. I am keeping my options open. however. My theory could completely change, change a little or not change at all as new quantifiable verifiable facts become available.

I hope to one day obtain degrees in a scientific field. I am most comfortable with the scientific process of asking questions and gathering data that support or disprove theories. I believe that testing theories is an integral part of arriving at a possible truth. I am not comfortable working with rumors, gossip and unsubstantiated statements disguised as facts.

I am responsible for nearly 40 out of thousands of posts on this forum. The math clearly proves that I have not "picked apart every post" I have read. Furthermore, most of my posts contain questions and not comments.
 
After looking at your comment history, I have to ask: do you have your own theory about what happened, or do you just come to WS to try to pick apart every post you read?

Constructive criticism is a good thing, until it becomes the sole premise upon which you base your comments.

If you choose to quote me in the future, please use my quote in it's entirety.

IMO, using parts of a quote alters the integrity of the idea that it's meant to convey. IMHO, such an action can be interpreted as deceptive.

Thank you!
 
It has been well established that SCPD ruled-out both JB & MP as suspects. Now they are convinced that she drowned on her own. Here are the reasons behind their conclusions;

To understand the police theory you first must understand how they are interpreting the fact that SG was described as having a history of being "bipolar". This is extremely important because it will give you a good understanding of why everyone acted the way they did on the night of May 1st 2010. I mean absolutely no disrespect for SG (may she rest in peace) when I say what I am about to say. It's something that is obvious to the police yet I have not heard one member here say it so here it goes;

When a woman is described as being "bipolar" or having bipolar disorder, it is a very kind way of saying that she has uncontrollable mood swings that can become quite a handful to deal with. On the upside of those swings, the bipolar woman can be extremely irritable and can often become so enraged by her anger that she acts like a complete maniac (blood pressure boiling, acting viciously, extremely short-tempered, agitated beyond belief).

In a nutshell, such a woman would be described in slang terms as a "psycho B*tch".

(once again, I mean no disrespect to SG. Just trying to paint a picture of the way it is and why the police feel the way that they do).

So just for a moment, put yourself in a police investigator's shoes and stop thinking of SG as a poor unfortunate victim who was a kind, sweet & intelligent young woman who lost her entire future and consider that a police investigator might be looking at this from the angle that SG was a woman with an explosive temper who could really dish out some anger on the spur of the moment. Now with that picture of SG in your mind, imagine if you will that SG was on a war path that night. For whatever reason, she was not in the best of moods. Perhaps she was pissed because it was a slow night and she had to make that long journey all the way out to the Island. Or perhaps it was MP who set her off when he argued with her and refused to drive to CVS upon her request. As a matter of fact, we have read from several sources that MP & SG argued intensely that night. Their argument ended with SG telling MP to "go to hell I will find my own way back to New Jersey " ( well maybe not in these exact words but something very close).

If you have ever known a young woman who was bipolar then you can appreciate what the police investigators know. And that is how it is common for just one argument to set a bipolar woman off on a warpath against everyone she encounters. Now the police investigator had to imagine what JB experienced. He hired this young woman for companionship (agreeing to pay her by the hour) but instead of receiving the optimum value for his dollar, he sits there listening to her as she starts going off on a verbal rampage about how upset she is with MP. If she is like most bipolar woman, she not only starts complaining about the grief that MP just gave her, she starts going off about all of the other recent times MP pissed her off.

You can easily imagine JB starting to be a clock watcher. Ten minutes turns into a half hour and then the next thing he knows a whole hour passes by (an hour that he paid for most likely in advance) and instead of receiving sexual favors, his head is pounding from listening to a girl he has now concluded is a lunatic with an out-of-control temper. Out of left field she starts quizzing JB about whether or not he ever hired any escorts who were transvestites. The conversation further supports his theory that this girl is nuts. Eventually it becomes apparent to JB that he is simply wasting his money because there is no sign of SG's temper cooling down (which means there is no chance of her transforming any time soon into the sensual bedroom companion that he hoped for). JB himself might be a bit of a hot head (especially after being up all night and having his "buzz" or "high" now turning into a morning hangover). So when he decides "enough is enough" and asks SG to leave (and says it with a macho meat-head attitude) he doesn't realize that SG (on her current rampage) is a force to be reckoned with. She completely loses it when he informs her that he has no intention of paying her for their time together since all she did was spend all that time complaining about MP.

All police investigators understand how a bipolar woman's rampage can easily be redirected to more than one person. So all of that rage... all of those ill emotions stirring in SG's head that were initially directed towards MP are now directed towards JB for suggesting that she leave. Once JB realizes that he is in over his head and that SG will not honor his request to vacate his premise, he brings MP into the house to assist him. The only problem is that the very source of SG's anger was MP all along. So as you can imagine, MP is the LAST person SG wanted to see. And if the situation could not get any worse, JB makes the one crucial mistake that any woman (bipolar or not) could verify is the ultimate no-no;

He puts his hands on her.

MP has stated on the A&E special that he watched as JB physically put his arms around SG in an attempt to lift her out of his house. We were told that this did not work. What all of us failed to do when we heard that was to ask ourselves why?

It's not like SG was too heavy for JB to lift.

So the only conclusion we can possibly make is that the moment JB put his arms around SG and attempted to lift her off the ground, SG fought back (punching and kicking) with an extreme vengeance. It's also not far-fetched to assume that MP may have attempted to aid JB by trying to lift SG's feet off of the ground. A police investigator would know that the moment SG put some hurt into JB (and most likely MP if he was helping JB do the lifting), it is very possible that one or both men reacted spontaneously by putting some hurt right back into SG (either by squeezing her tightly, slamming her against a wall or even throwing a punch).

The moment SG felt real raw pain would have been the moment she began to fear for her life.

Hence the 911 call.

On the tape of her 23 minute 911 call the police clearly heard an irate woman and the voices of both MP & JB attempting to be the voices of reason to calm her down. If/when we someday hear that tape, we are more than likely going to hear SG on a full blown manic rampage and then we are going to hear the calm and collective voices of both MP & JB repeating words like

"nobody is trying to hurt you"...

"all we want you to do is get in the car with Michael and go home"...

"he promises to take care of you"...

Get the idea?

I'm not saying that either man is innocent. I'm just trying to paint the picture of what the police are being forced to consider (and that is the actual facts).

If you have ever listened to 911 tapes then you are aware that some (not all) of the 911 operators can be a bit short tempered themselves. Sometimes they don't intend to sound nasty when they speak abruptly and to the point in an attempt to extract information from the caller. Imagine if you will how it is very possible that SG (with her temper flaring) lashed out verbally against the 911 operator. I would not be at all surprised if SG possibly even called the 911 operator a few choice words when it became obvious to SG that the 911 operator was having problems pinpointing SG's exact location. It is even possible that SG took out all of her rage over the phone against the 911 operator if that 911 operator refused to believe that SG was in any kind of danger. It is very possible that SG's 911 call contains an argument back and forth between them.

So her rage starts off against MP, turns towards JB and then towards 911 & the police.

If a police investigator can imagine all of this then he can also imagine SG's grief with GC when first he refused to let her into his house. Then she gets even more pissed off at him when the only aid he offers her is for him to call 911 (because at this point, the 911 operator is already on her S h*t-list along with MP, JB & now GC). If MP was aware that SG's rage turned towards 911, then that would explain his comment to GC ("you should not have done that") when GC told him that he called the police.

Now fast-forward to the police officer who eventually responded to the scene. Imagine if he was told by 911 dispatch that he was responding to the aid of a drunk woman with a horrible temper. Upon arrival he meets GC (who he does know). His friend GC tells him how the girl had a short temper and was running around on a rampage. When the responding officer interviews JB, he gets an honest "off the record" confession from JB regarding how he hired the girl but then she went psycho on him before anything ever happened sexually. He then explains how her temper turned violent once he asked her to leave and refused to pay her for her companionship.

Polygraph tests on both JB & MP pass with "flying colors" (as MP put it) and the recording of SG's 911 call fully support the statements of both men regarding how SG just basically flipped out. MP goes on record with the police by stating that he figured she would just find her way back home just as she insisted she would do (because she was angry with him). He comes out looking like a hero because initially he did not leave her stranded as she requested but rather he stayed there hoping she would calm down and come to her senses. JB comes out clean as a whistle because he cooperates with the police every step of the way (including allowing them to search both his Oak Beach home and his family's home in West Islip as well as allowing them to impound his suv). Neither JB nor MP show any sign of guilt. The police actually appreciate the fact that neither man has chosen to "lawyer-up". For all we know, some sort of off-the-record deal may have been cut with one or both men for them to receive full immunity from sex-trafficking charges in exchange for agreeing to disclose everything they know about SG's drug & alcohol consumption that evening.

Surely the investigators interviewed SG's mom, sisters, foster mom and the rest of her family. And surely they inquired about SG's temper. I never heard MG state it publicly, but there is history there in that family regarding SG that we are not aware of regarding exactly how/why SG came to live with a foster mother (and what anger/resentment issues SG had with her mom & her family over that arrangement). There is also never any mention about SG's family's initial reaction to learning that she chose to be a prostitute or their reaction towards her choosing to say with her boyfriend AD even after he broke her jaw. Surely the detectives had their work cut out for them investigating all of these scenarios. And I would not be surprised if they learned from everyone who knew SG that although she was normally a very nice person, she indeed did have an explosive, uncontrollable temper.

When attempting to construct a theory on what happened to SG, everything about her case points away from the LISK investigation. Other than being a prostitute who advertised online, there are no facts that link SG to the other victims. The fact that she traveled with MP as her personal driver was enough to convince the investigators that SG was not a victim of the LISK.

The missing surveillance tapes, CPH's phone calls to MG, CPH's letters & the way he appeared suspicious, SG's missing jacket, the discovery of SG's earring, these are all regarded as irrelevant "white noise". They do not erase what the police consider to be the true relevant facts of this case. Most important of all of those facts is what they have constructed to be SG's mental state.

Even the source of the now infamous & mysterious "tip" that led the investigators to examine the wetlands in greater detail is irrelevant to the facts of this case. But once SG's personal belongings were found scattered throughout the wetlands it became obvious to the investigators that in her state of mind, SG would have had a very difficult time attempting to navigate the unforgiving terrain as she tried to make headway towards Ocean Parkway's lights. When one of the police investigators sunk down in water up to his chest and had to receive assistance from several other officers to pull him out of the quick-sand-like "muck", the investigators realized how easy it would have been for SG to drown in the dark.

And that was it.

All of the pieces fit.

All that was left was to find her body intact (which they did) and her case would be ruled an accidental drowning (which it probably will).

Case closed.

I don't necessarily agree with all of these conclusions but I can see how the police can make a very solid argument in favor of them.
 
@Seaslug- You nailed it. That was an excellent piece of writing and explanation of the facts. Bravo!
 
I am not familiar with this web site that much. So I am asking if there are honest true psychics that are on here and/or have lent there ear to these threads?

Things of that nature are usually discussed in the Parking Lot. If this is something that interests you, you can poke around there.

Personally, I'm a sceptic (though not neccesarily an unbeliever). ;)
 
I appreciate you telling a possible story from the police prospective. However, there were a few points that I question as a police officer and how they should react to a call.
In short, I did make a call about someone I had known that did something to a baby. I was told they put tape across the paci to keep it in their mouth because "they couldn't deal with the baby not shutting up". appalling so I called it in
This person in turn threatened me that if I did not call back and claim it was a flase report on my end they would call in a false report about me and my children, real nice huh. These sick ppl, I do not regret calling till this day! Anyway so I called the police asap letting them know what was said to me about them. The police came out and talked to me. He stated even believing me if they did make that call they would still have to check it out.
So, even with ppl and the perp's/ the John (JB) giving a off hand comment of "nah shes just looney" the cop would still have to do their due diligence and search. Unfortunately they did not, this is the defunct LI LE.

sigh if only we would get a hold of those tapes!

Also, a side note about bi-polar diagnosis and women. I feel a lot of times women in our society are delegated as bi-polar because well you know we think women are moody. we= society as a whole
Not that this woman had a rough life, her depression and reaction to the crap that happened to her as a child would be a normal reaction. Especially young girls/kids would not know how to channel the disappointment at life but, with some anger.
I wish she was given a second opinion on this bi-polar thing.
just thought I would through that out there
 
sea slug...omg

let me add that an episode like this can turn into blind hysteria when PTSD enters the picture, having had her jaw broken could trigger a reaction to any kind of forceful treatment by someone.

hysterical , trying to elude the cops...

but then off come the pants and I'm left in utter frustration again.
 
is it possible that she was carrying those jeans the whole time? is it possible that she was not in her pants at GC's and he chose to omit this fact in order not to "rat on his neighbor" because of what that would imply?

because if Shannan was trying to escape and saw herself coming out on the side of the road where she saw the light, how would she expect to get away unnoticed in her underpants?
 
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