NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

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All MG has to do is ask her phone service provider to issue her another copy of the phone records. Hopefully, they still have records from May 2010.

As to the tapes...we read early on that the system taped over but that all recordings were backed up to some sort of hard drive...so there still would have been a record and it should have shown images of anyone passing that gate between 2:00 AM and 9:00 AM, May 1, 2010. That would include the LE response, MP & SG coming and possibly going, any guest or residents coming and/or going and anyone else who had occasion to approach the gatehouse and the cameras.

it would also prove whether JB opened the gate for MP or if he actually sat outside the gate, for any amount of time, before coming into the private community to retrieve or search for Shannan.


I would be interested in reading anything that discusses this harddrive you brought up. Do you have any links?

What if the perp hacked/cracked the harddrive and tampered with the data about the comings and goings of the parties involved that should of been recorded?
 
Dwntwnslim,

If you watch this video you can get some area as to the terrain of where SG's body was found. I do not know what the water level was that day, but I doubt it was much higher than in the picture because of the presence of drainage ditches in the area. But I could be wrong on this point

Some brush and trees appear to be more than a few years old, so I would not expect this area has been underwater for long periods of time.

The temperature was reported to be about 50 degrees.

Because of the temperature, terrain and topography I rule out drowning.
 
Dwntwnslim,

If you watch this video you can get some area as to the terrain of where SG's body was found. I do not know what the water level was that day, but I doubt it was much higher than in the picture because of the presence of drainage ditches in the area. But I could be wrong on this point

Some brush and trees appear to be more than a few years old, so I would not expect this area has been underwater for long periods of time.

The temperature was reported to be about 50 degrees.

Because of the temperature, terrain and topography I rule out drowning.


If you don't know how deep the water was on the day Shannan Gilbert died, how could you possibly rule out drowning as a Possibility?

Knowing the air temperature is helpful. Were you able to answer any of the questions I posed that would aid in effectively dismissing drowning as a possibility? There are more variables that should be considered, BTW. The ones I mentioned, were merely the variables I could remember off the top of my head.

What about the "dry drowning" scenario? You would need to know the temperature of the water, whether or not Ms. Gilbert was taking any prescribed medications (Rx meds can interfere with a person's homeostatic status), whether or not Ms. Gilbert was under the influence of any drugs or alcohol (alcohol/drugs can also interfere with a person's homeostatic status in addition to impairing coordination and judgement) to rule that one at minimum.

Were you able to rule out the possibility of head injury with any degree of certainty? Gus Coletti mentioned that Ms. Gilbert was having balance issues in addition to speech problems when he encountered her. Balance and speech problems often accompany head injuries. For Example: If Shannan Gilbert had a head injury, and was presenting with balance problems, should could of fallen face down in a puddle and drowned.
 
from my view/interpretation of the remains - Gilbert's body was found face up
 
from my view/interpretation of the remains - Gilbert's body was found face up

Have the authorities mentioned whether or not if position that Shannan Gilbert's remains were found in, was the position Ms. Gilbert died in?

Keep in mind, the scenario I presented was only an Example. I did not say that is what happened.
 
@Seaslug44
since joe the psychic was there
and you felt he was incredibly credible

did ya'll go and search the area he said to look at? WITH HIM?

where was equisearch?

did robin sax's private investigators go and search that area?
robin sax had 2 private investigators out there - did they head off in the direction that joe the psychic said to go search????

this is not only sick - its incredibly sad. so incredibly sad.
 
@Seaslug44
since joe the psychic was there
and you felt he was incredibly credible

did ya'll go and search the area he said to look at? WITH HIM?

where was equisearch?

did robin sax's private investigators go and search that area?
robin sax had 2 private investigators out there - did they head off in the direction that joe the psychic said to go search????

this is not only sick - its incredibly sad. so incredibly sad.
1) never said any psychic was credible.
2) why would I search Oak Beach with or without a psychic? Truthspider is the one with the high-tech spy van, not me. I now live hundreds of miles North in another state. Even if I did still live on the Island I do not feel that it is appropriate to inject oneself into an investigation like that. It's one thing to Sleuth and write about it. Actually searching for bodies is another (and it completely crosses the line).

Not cool.
 
Dwntwnslim and others.

We can debate until we are blue in the face if SG drowned and died of natural causes, or was murdered. Right now nobody knows for sure.

I believe she died because of someone's criminal actions. Of course drowning could be cause of death, and if the SK is real smart he killed her that way.

If you have the belief SG died naturally, case closed and there is no need to look any farther.


The SK and LE like the drowning theory, for opposite reasons obviously.

I believe we on this web site have to do everything possible to search for the real truth, not plausible or possible explanations.

Again several people keep saying on this site, dying in a swamp/wetland while under the influence of drugs and alcohol is not unusual, but nobody has given me any examples from MSM in the last thirty years of any drowning in any of Long Island's hundreds of acres of wetland/swamps.

If it is not unusual it should have happened scores of times previously. I challenge you; if you insist on the theory of people wandering off into swamps and drowning please back it up with historical incidents.


Otherwise do not insist it is a common occurrence.

Thanks
 
I can see SG getting in a situation at JB's home where she ended up in a disagreement about payment for services delivered or received, or drugs delivered or received. I can see her being so upset that it escalated into a drama scene where MP was called and also became "the enemy" in SG's mind. I can see JB and/or MP trying to restrain SG and thus, her call to 911 that "they" were trying to kill her. I can see her running for help to GC's house....but I have not come up with a good reason for her to run out of his home. I simply cannot entertain a scenario where this street smart girl, who has survived a lot of crap in her life, runs into the brambles behind CPH's house, removes her shoes/boots (???), throws down her purse with her cell phone (!!!), and removes her jeans. She then runs essentially naked through thick bramble until she encounters a deep spot within site of the road where she just drowns. Pretty much as likely as monkeys are to fly out of my butt and fly towards the west as their droppings turn to gold before they hit the ground.
 
@SeaSlug
oh
i'm sorry
i thought when you said joe the psychic was 100% accurate
you were right there
and not 100 miles away. seems like you were saying
he nailed.....exactly the place shannan gilbert was found
like you - knew....cuz you were there in person.

This is sick...
Back in August, one of the psychics who walked the OBA community with Mari zoned in directly upon the direction of Shannan's body-

Quote:
“Something happened here,” Joe says. “I’m picking up a whole lot of vibrations right here.” Joe is of partial Native American descent and his manner of speaking, the intonation and cadence, has a certain indigenous quality to it that I enjoy.
I look around at the terrain. It’s near the space in the reeds by the basketball court. There are no houses directly in sight yet...

We continue down Anchor Way to where it intersects with the road named The Bayou. This is supposedly where Shannan’s jacket was found. We look to Joe for what he’s sensing.

He shakes his head. “I felt more back the other way,” he says.
-Written by Jim Jones Here

Sick right?

His perception was 100 percent accurate!
 
Dwntwnslim and others.

We can debate until we are blue in the face if SG drowned and died of natural causes, or was murdered. Right now nobody knows for sure.

I believe she died because of someone's criminal actions. Of course drowning could be cause of death, and if the SK is real smart he killed her that way.

If you have the belief SG died naturally, case closed and there is no need to look any farther.


The SK and LE like the drowning theory, for opposite reasons obviously.

I believe we on this web site have to do everything possible to search for the real truth, not plausible or possible explanations.

Again several people keep saying on this site, dying in a swamp/wetland while under the influence of drugs and alcohol is not unusual, but nobody has given me any examples from MSM in the last thirty years of any drowning in any of Long Island's hundreds of acres of wetland/swamps.

If it is not unusual it should have happened scores of times previously. I challenge you; if you insist on the theory of people wandering off into swamps and drowning please back it up with historical incidents.


Otherwise do not insist it is a common occurrence.

Thanks

"The SK and LE like the drowning theory, for opposite reasons obviously.”

How do you know what the perp's likes and dislikes are?


“I believe we on this web site have to do everything possible to search for the real truth, not plausible or possible explanations.”

Don't you have to look for Possible explanations because the rest are impossible by definition?


How Do You Form a Hypothesis?

The first step is to collect as many observations as possible about the problem you are trying to examine. Then consider your observations and think about how they might relate to the problem. Try to imagine possible solutions to explain your observations. Once you come up with a possible explanation, ask yourself if it could be proven wrong by an experiment. If it could be proven wrong, then you have formed a hypothesis. If there is no way to prove it wrong, go back to your data and try to come up with another hypothesis.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNGGwf0ecoI2VoDCkSGOTeBZyTC4Xw&cad=rja


“Otherwise do not insist it is a common occurrence.”

I haven't insisted that it is a "common occurrence” but, The Center for Disease Control sure has:

“In 2007, there were 3,443 fatal unintentional drownings (non-boating related) in the United States, averaging ten deaths per day. An additional 496 people died from drowning in boating-related incidents.1,2”

“Natual Water Settings (such as lakes, rivers, or the ocean). The percent of drownings in natural water settings increases with age. When a location was known, 65% of drownings among those 15 years and older occurred in natural water settings.8”

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html
 
That's interesting. In another thread (forgive me, I don't remember which one) people were discussing cadaver dogs and somebody who trains them said a person will leave a scent within seconds of death.

ETA: I think it was the Lisa Irwin thread. If I find it, I will come back and post what the dog trainer over there said.

What I've read is decpmposition begins right at death. But it takes about 2 hours for that scent to be potent enough for a dog's sensory system to pick it up. IMO
 
What I've read is decpmposition begins right at death. But it takes about 2 hours for that scent to be potent enough for a dog's sensory system to pick it up. IMO

I found what I was looking for. In the Lisa Irwin thread, there is a Websleuths poster called Sarx, who is a Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR.

He/She said that a cadaver dog can pick up the scent the moment death occurs.

Here is the link. The post I am referring to is post number 38, on page 2.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152258&page=2
 
I put out a request for Oriah and Sarx to give us their opinion here in this thread. Oriah, I believe, works with dogs who are cross trained, so her input would be very valuable to us with respect to a body located in water.
 
I totally agree with you Inspectr. I am going to take this one step further and state that Mari's story about a May 1st or May 2nd phone call is unproven. She has not produced any phone records to back her claim that the doctor called her the day after Shannan went missing. Yes, there are the two other phone calls. But check this out regarding those calls-

Jim Jones was the closest unbiased person to Mari during this investigation. Jim Jones is a reporter and was a very close friend of Mari's. This is a direct quote from Jim regarding the phone calls


From Jim Jone's Blog

So there you have every logical explanation right from a very close source. Mari thinks she received a call from CPH on May 2nd regarding Shannan and the rehab. The doctor says "prove it" because the phone records DO NOT. Mari can't be certain at this point because very early on she gave her phone records to the police. As you pointed out Inspectr, Dormer (whose department has those phone records) has stated that the alleged phone call accusation has been "Debunked".

Would Dormer really say that if the phone records suggested otherwise?

Would CPH strongly suggest that Mari show her phone records to the police unless he was absolutely certain that his and her phone records do not support the May 2nd phone call accusation?

We also have the actual truth here regarding the Rehab confusion. CPH states that HE DID mention rehab. But not because he ran one but because Alex & Michael told him that she was in rehab once before and CPH told Mari on the phone that he was hoping that maybe she is in rehab again and that is why nobody has heard from her.

We also are enlightened to the fact that other than what Mari claims, there truly is no footage or proof that CPH ever denied the phone calls. I think one of the reasons why SCPD has stated that he is not a suspect is because as they said, he has been very cooperative and honest with them. I am willing to bet that CPH did indeed disclose to the police about his phone calls very early on in this investigation (long before Mari ever went public about the phone calls). And I am willing to bet that when they interviewed AD & MP, both men confirmed CPH's story by stating to the police that they indeed gave CPH the phone numbers and asked him to call. If anything, more focus should be put on MP & AD to inquire as to exactly why they chose to push those phone numbers on to the doc.

We even get the truth here about the video tapes. It's a 2 week loop (which is common with those old VHS or 8mm tape systems). My new system in my house has a 1TB hard drive. So even at the D1 (high quality) recording level with 16 cameras with audio recording at once, I have like a year's worth of time before old footage gets recorded over (and five years with the online backup). But on those old systems that were installed before hard drives and the internet, 48 hours to 2 weeks was the norm before old footage was erased. Blame the SCPD on that misstep. They should have asked for the tape right away instead of waiting a few months or a year.

CPH reveals here that he knows that if he doesn't speak to the media they "make stuff up" about him.

No kidding.

That pretty much explains all of the political B.S. in that old Newsday article about him losing his old position with Suffolk County.

Seems to be some very logical and reasonable explanations for everything.

Unless Mari can produce actual phone records (not retyped) that prove that CPH called her on May 2nd (or if the police are willing to state that it is true) we simply cannot trust the word of someone going through so much emotional stress. I say this with no disrespect for Mair. Just saying... if I were on the jury I would say "show me the phone records certified by the phone company". I simply could not count upon someone's memory from almost two years ago.

And, as you can see, this is where Truth learned about the book by CPH's father (this blog by Jim Jones has been posted many times here before).

Seaslug, this is positively the best post I've seen on this thread. For anyone who would still believe that CPH had anything to do with Shannan Gilbert's disappearance, this post says it all.

I'm glad that it seems Mari and Sherre are not flat out liars. I always believed both Mari and CPH about the call, and now it really just seems like a mistake on Mari's part.

I'll say though that Mari's apparently mistaken allegation has lead to the utter destruction of Mr. Hackett's good name both here on this board, in the media and elsewhere online. Many have shredded him, his family, even his ancestors where by all accounts he's a decent, hardworking guy.

Furthermore, Mari's mistake has lead at least the "online" investigation here at Websleuths to take a dramatic turn away from looking more at the victims of a real serial killer. I would say that about 95% of the posts on this thread are related to Shannan and Oak Beach, and it seems that the mystery and intrigue of discussing and debating Oak Beach-related theories has outstripped any further analysis of the GB4, Manorville, etc. I'm glad that it seems police were not similarly misdirected.

For anyone who can't access the original article, here's the cached version. The original premise was: Which one is lying or telling a half-truth: police or Mari/Sherre?

P.S.: The quoted text above from Seaslug's original post is incomplete. Please refer to Seaslug's original post #403 for complete text.
 
I posted this several months ago...but just realized that the coffee grower guy actually lives next to Barbara Brennan

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6510912&postcount=153"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #9[/ame]
 
I would be interested in reading anything that discusses this harddrive you brought up. Do you have any links?

What if the perp hacked/cracked the harddrive and tampered with the data about the comings and goings of the parties involved that should of been recorded?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04...beach-as-part-of-serial-killer-investigation/

Although the videotapes are taped over every 24 hours, the videos are also stored on a hard drive.
 
I posted this several months ago...but just realized that the coffee grower guy actually lives next to Barbara Brennan

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #9

Well....isn't THAT interesting! Good sleuthing there, MrsPC! Does he import/export? This is interesting to me because the burlap bag that I managed to get ahold of was stamped with the emblem of a coffee company.

wm
 
he had one son that was killed in a car wreck in 2001, and another son who overdosed on heroin there at his Oak Beach home in May 2007. he also has another son still living named Christopher.
 
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