NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

[internetgirl101]

"The remains of the new victims were found about 500 metres apart."

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Serial_..._in_New_York,_more_bodies_found?dpl_id=254412

 

[Verity]

Today's Newsday article updated at 10.57pm. http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/cops-at-gilgo-3-more-remains-totaling-8-1.2799238 Now has 57 comments on it. Because it's a subscription only site tied to cable TV, I would say most if not all are comments from locals. Here are a few that jumped out as interesting:

"I wonder if the police ever thought about the boaters who anchor in Hemlock Cove, very close to where the bodies were found. Could any of them have seen a suspicious car pulled over on the shoulder just long enough to dump a body? "


"Crazy stuff!!!! I keep thinking that it could be a person with a 4X4 pass who fishes regularly over that way...No one would ever think twice about seeing a big ole 4X4 with fishing poles standing on the side of the road at 2:30am....it would also explain the burlap.... "

"Isnt the Ocean Pkwy patrolled by the State, not the county? "


""Obviously this guy is always heading West.. All the bodies have been found on the North side of the parkway. Nobody ever goes on the bay side. No one fishes on that side either, unless your in a boat. I wonder if they considered that? Most people with beach permits take their trucks on the beach side. At night it is so desolate, there aren't even camera's. I am sure there will be now.. 8 bodies.. OMG I just can't believe they found more bodies. These poor people and their families.. GotsToBeKidding... I personally think it's the guy who last saw her alive... And that would be the man who called the cops.. I say search every freggin house out there. "

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

I have updated the case archive album with today's discoveries.

Also... I see a little bit of misinfo in a few posts, a link a while back that was dated 12/13 was mistaken for todays news.

And... if you want to find out a little more about the first 4 victims, it is all there in the case archive. Good details.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Ocean Parkway Murders -NY-/

 

[MrsG728]

"Crazy stuff!!!! I keep thinking that it could be a person with a 4X4 pass who fishes regularly over that way...No one would ever think twice about seeing a big ole 4X4 with fishing poles standing on the side of the road at 2:30am....it would also explain the burlap.... "

I agree 100%


"Isnt the Ocean Pkwy patrolled by the State, not the county? "

I believe local precincts as of 2008

"Obviously this guy is always heading West.. All the bodies have been found on the North side of the parkway. Nobody ever goes on the bay side. No one fishes on that side either, unless your in a boat. I wonder if they considered that? Most people with beach permits take their trucks on the beach side. "
yep.

Thanks for posting these, V.

 

[MrsG728]

I have updated the case archive album with today's discoveries.

Also... I see a little bit of misinfo in a few posts, a link a while back that was dated 12/13 was mistaken for todays news.

And... if you want to find out a little more about the first 4 victims, it is all there in the case archive. Good details.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Ocean Parkway Murders -NY-/

Amanda i have a news12 account, do you know how i could post news clips on WS or a site like yours so ppl here can see?

 

[scandi]

This is the article that mentions the prostitute who is missing was being driven to meet a client on Fire Island. I guess her driver took a wrong turn to Oak Beach, maybe made an improper pass at her, she got real scared, jumped out of his alt. sports vehicle and ran up to that house in the photo with the dock. I think her name is Shannan. Just supposition, trying to piece it together and IMO:

http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/12/13/2-bodies-found-in-oak-beach-in-3-days/

" . . . . The woman was last heard from when she was driven to Long Island by a man to meet a client on Fire Island, another barrier island just east of Oak Beach, according to a police spokesman."

 

[scandi]

Hi Mrs G, It is great to have you here. A few questions if I may:

The big bridge that comes down to LI, is there a continuation of it that goes to Fire Island? It looks like there is another exit off this island {going towards NYC - North, right?} and am a bit curious about that.

What do the locals say? Could it be Shannan's driver killed her, maybe even accidentally, and her case is not of the SK. It just so happened that in looking for Shannan they found more bodies?

Do you know pretty close on the map as to where they found the most recent bodies? I saw a map on CNN that showed the body finds platted out and haven't seen it here.

Oh, and I see Staten Island where the S of L is. Can you tell me about where she is on a map and how close or far away she is from where they are searching.

Ta

 

[ThoughtFox]

Were they covered in snow?

The cold/bad weather is the only thing I can think of as to why it took so long to find these bodies.

I have a friend who lives on Long Island and they had massive amounts of snow this winter.

You can see what it's like in this article from January 2011:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0...Northeast-70-percent-of-US-now-coated-in-snow

 

[ThoughtFox]

I was looking up some backstory and found this ironic statement from last December:

Dormer also assured residents that they shouldn’t worry about their safety.

“I don’t want anybody to think that we have a Jack the Ripper running around Suffolk County with blood dripping from a knife,” Dormer said.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/12/16/man-recalls-missing-n-j-prostitute-as-delirious/

A few months later and I bet everyone is afraid, and we might just have a Jack-the-Ripper after all!

 

[MrsG728]

Hi Mrs G, It is great to have you here. A few questions if I may:

The big bridge that comes down to LI, is there a continuation of it that goes to Fire Island? It looks like there is another exit off this island {going towards NYC - North, right?} and am a bit curious about that.

What do the locals say? Could it be Shannan's driver killed her, maybe even accidentally, and her case is not of the SK. It just so happened that in looking for Shannan they found more bodies?

Do you know pretty close on the map as to where they found the most recent bodies? I saw a map on CNN that showed the body finds platted out and haven't seen it here.

Oh, and I see Staten Island where the S of L is. Can you tell me about where she is on a map and how close or far away she is from where they are searching.

Ta

Hi Scandi

1. Although the Robert Moses bridge is connected to the barrier island portion of Fire Island National Seashore (FINS), Fire island is not accessible by car. You must drive to Bay Shore or Sayville to pick up the ferry. Cars are not allowed on Fire Island. This is the attraction

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/mrsgeluso/WS pics/Captreemap.jpg

*exception: A small community on Fire Island called Kismet is the closest to this area. You have to cross from Oak Beach across a little bridge onto Captree Island, Then into Robert Moses State Park. These are the Ocean Beaches on LI. Go East toward the Fire Island Lighthouse onto a single-lane access road. It has a barricade and is controlled by town officials. Each of Kismet's year-rounders or seasonals with a car must have a permit to access Kismet, which is a decal on the car. During the school year, one school bus goes back and forth once a day into Kismet to the Babylon school district.

Local aren't sure- my friends who live in Gilgo seem to think this guy is suspicious. These homes aren't attached, and it is not a common area for prostitutes. Fire Island has been known to attract some party boys.

I will try to find a map from News 12. I think it is exactly 4 miles from Cedar Beach to OBI parking lot, eastbound if I am not mistaken. Bay Shore is 15 minutes approx from OBI (Oak Beach Inn).

Still can't believe this is happening here.

 

[MrsG728]

Map of the murders, 1st 4 bodies. I will update when newsday does

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/mrsgeluso/WS%20pics/GilgoMurdersMap1.jpg



Weather, snow, foliage in December:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/mrsgeluso/WS pics/decemberbeach.jpg


Aerial view of the area- you can see the bridge to the ocean beaches/Robert moses in the background. OBI Parking Lot is in the foreground. Bodies were found just West of the picture initially, but newer ones were found closer to this area.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/mrsgeluso/WS pics/overheadview.jpg

• This aerial photo over Oak Beach shows a staging area set up in the parking lot of the former Oak Beach Inn, just west of the Oak Island Beach Association community. Law enforcement agencies investigated the Oak Island home of Joseph Brewer, shown four houses east (above) the Oak Beach Inn parking lot. (Dec. 16, 2010) Photo Credit: Kevin P. Coughlin

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/mrsgeluso/WS pics/brambles.jpg
Thick brambles, green in summer.

 

[scandi]

Map of the murders, 1st 4 bodies. I will update when newsday does

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/mrsgeluso/WS%20pics/GilgoMurdersMap1.jpg



Weather, snow, foliage in December:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/mrsgeluso/WS pics/decemberbeach.jpg


Aerial view of the area- you can see the bridge to the ocean beaches/Robert moses in the background. OBI Parking Lot is in the foreground. Bodies were found just West of the picture initially, but newer ones were found closer to this area.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/mrsgeluso/WS pics/overheadview.jpg

• This aerial photo over Oak Beach shows a staging area set up in the parking lot of the former Oak Beach Inn, just west of the Oak Island Beach Association community. Law enforcement agencies investigated the Oak Island home of Joseph Brewer, shown four houses east (above) the Oak Beach Inn parking lot. (Dec. 16, 2010) Photo Credit: Kevin P. Coughlin

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/mrsgeluso/WS pics/brambles.jpg
Thick brambles, green in summer.

Thank you so much MrsG, I've read so much tonight my eyes are drooping LOL. I haven't yet gone to read this whole thread, which I will tomoz.

See you tomoz after I look at the photos you've posted. xox

 

[MsFacetious]

Police said the search would be continued Tuesday over a broader area.

If none of the three newly discovered remains are identified as Gilbert, it will leave the possibility that a ninth body remains to be found.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/long-island-serial-killer-discovery-bodies-beach-raises/story?id=13294531

This makes no sense to me.

It does not matter if they identify Shannan.

It does not matter if they find Jimmy Hoffa.

They need to keep looking until they have cleared these areas.

If they DID find a 9th body Monday and ALL of the bodies are connected then I think there are at least 3 more. I think there is 8 or there is 12... (or another multiple of 4) unless they interrupted him.

This guy seems very obsessive compulsive. 4 bodies, 500 feet apart from each other... 1 mile apart from the next 4.

There is no way, he is just going to have 1 more out there by itself. That would drive him absolutely crazy. Trust me.

I actually, wouldn't be at all surprised if he keeps the first 3 bodies until he has 4 and then dumps them all at once.

As someone with OCD... I have done similar things with collectibles. Not put them on display until I had the whole set. (Bad example... I know, but you get the idea.)

This could even be a guy who takes one... keeps her for a length of time... then kills her when he takes a new one. We've seen that before...

I did find a link that all 8 bodies were put into burlap bags. I'll have to go find that link :banghead:

ETA: Interesting, this article says the 3 last bodies discovered had been there for at least a month:
http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/12/13/2-bodies-found-in-oak-beach-in-3-days/

To clarify... the bodies that had been there at least a month were the FIRST set. Bodies #2, 3 and 4. The ones that have since been identified. Sad as it is, I think referring to them by number is going to be the least confusing.

December - Body #1 is found by the cop. They find #2, 3, and 4 while searching after that.

March/April - Body #5 is found by someone driving by. They find #6, 7, and 8 while searching after that. Then possibly #9 is also found during that search.

This article is from December of 2010 and refers to bodies 1-4.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/12/13/2-bodies-found-in-oak-beach-in-3-days/

The first discovery of human remains was made at 2:45 p.m. Saturday in nearby Oak Beach when Canine Section Officer John Mallia and his dog, Blue, were searching along the parkway. They found skeletal remains between Cedar Beach and Gilgo Beach.

Police found the three additional unidentified bodies while searching the scene for evidence related to the original incident. The bodies were each about 500 feet apart from each other and had been there for at least one month, police said.

The medical examiner is working to identify the remains in each case while the investigation is continuing. No identifications have been made at this time.

 

[internetgirl101]

Could the killer have possibly, with a truck, reversed into the brush to let the body out? If it is possible, I think it would be easier to ram a truck through...no dragging, lifting..he wouldn't even have to get out of the vehicle. All the locations, from the photos, look like they go in a tiny bit further, unless law enforcement cut through after they found something?

Nicole Tessa..(the woman they found recently) Her husband seems a little off to me. And I found it interesting that she went missing right about the same time these bodies were found. Maybe after hearing they found the bodies, he got upset, or figured he was going to be caught anyway..so he killed her too. Interesting that it was the same officer who found her body and the first on Gilgo.

Is there a 9th set of remains? NG is the only one that said 9?

Is it possible that the 3 or 4 that were found today filled the mile long gap between the first 4 and the 5th one found? Or are they grouped in 4s a mile apart?

And hearing about Gilbert's family going in to identify the 3 most recent bodies found + the article that says the remains were there for "at least a month" scares me. At first I was thinking they were probably there long before. But now, I'm not so sure..

 

[internetgirl101]

Another thing that bothers me is SG's 911 call. Not only did they not respond quickly enough, she names her attacker!?! Why aren't they looking into that? They aren't releasing the tapes.. They don't want a lawsuit?
From the beginning, when they found the first body, the story was fishy to me. It wasn't clear who found the body, how they found it, why they were there. I DO NOT believe they were there looking for SG. I agree with someone on here that said they wouldn't have waited until cold, snowy December to look for her, when they had the whole summer! But, I knew SG was missing and thought that first body found was hers, for sure...until they found three more.
I believe the 4 women that were already identified made an appointment with a client, who was indeed, their killer. He called them to meet them, to kill them. SG, on the other hand, met with her client, and left. I believe the last person to see her was the driver. And about the driver, I read different articles. Some say the driver/boyfriend/pimp are all the same person. Other articles say the driver and the boyfriend were two different people...? Hmmm..

 

[MsFacetious]

Bodies #1-4 (Maureen, Melissa, Megan and Amber) are from:

July of 2007

July of 2009

June of 2010

September of 2010


If we look at this as a June/July and September pattern...

We are missing:

September 2007.

June/July 2008.

September 2008.

September 2009.


There ARE missing women who match these times. Those 4 could be bodies #5-8. That would cover the 8 bodies we know of... I will be interested to see their identities and when they went missing.

However, we allegedly have a 9th body now... (from family members of victims as well as from Nancy) if there really is 9, I don't think it'll stop there...

If you throw in a couple of more for escalation or opportunistic victims... you could easily get to the next "set of 4."

I think it is possible he escalated in 2010 and claimed 4 instead of the 2 that have been identified. (Possibly Shannan in May...) Maybe even an extra in a previous year. There are missing women who would fit that.

Then maybe he also started earlier... if you add in June/July 2006 and September 2006 - you could have 2 more... there are also missing women who match that.

That could be the next set of 4, if there is indeed more bodies.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6290090&postcount=368"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010- All id'd, #2[/ame]


Or maybe the locations of the bodies, the distances of the bodies, the timing of the disappearances and the circumstances surrounding them are just a big ol' coincidence... :innocent:

 

[MsFacetious]

The four women identified so far were all lured to Long Island by Craigslist ads, as was Gilbert.

The bodies of the four were all wrapped in burlap.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...li_beach_nkxe20Btof0RQJCICvMzAJ#ixzz1IdPBbS00


The first discovery of human remains was made at 2:45 p.m. Saturday in nearby Oak Beach when Canine Section Officer John Mallia and his dog, Blue, were searching along the parkway. They found skeletal remains between Cedar Beach and Gilgo Beach.

Police found the three additional unidentified bodies while searching the scene for evidence related to the original incident. The bodies were each about 500 feet apart from each other and had been there for at least one month, police said.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/12/13/2-bodies-found-in-oak-beach-in-3-days/

This article from December 2010 talks about the FIRST 4 bodies. Maureen, Melissa, Megan and Amber.

Officer John Mallia was walking his dog Blue when Blue led him to the first body. He found the FIRST body (as well as Nicole Tessa a week later.)

Then they did a search and found the next 3 bodies.

Then they said that THOSE bodies (#1-4) had been there for at least a month.

We have not heard much about how long the three bodies found MONDAY had been there... bodies #6-8.

Of the new victims, Varrone would say only that their remains had been there for some time.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/12/13/2-bodies-found-in-oak-beach-in-3-days/

Shannan Gilbert's sister said on Nancy Grace tonight that they were going to do the DNA as quickly as possible to identify the bodies found Monday, bodies #6-8. I do not believe that they are actually having the family identify anything.

Another thing that bothers me is SG's 911 call. Not only did they not respond quickly enough, she names her attacker!?! Why aren't they looking into that? They aren't releasing the tapes.. They don't want a lawsuit?
From the beginning, when they found the first body, the story was fishy to me. It wasn't clear who found the body, how they found it, why they were there. I DO NOT believe they were there looking for SG. I agree with someone on here that said they wouldn't have waited until cold, snowy December to look for her, when they had the whole summer! But, I knew SG was missing and thought that first body found was hers, for sure...until they found three more.
I believe the 4 women that were already identified made an appointment with a client, who was indeed, their killer. He called them to meet them, to kill them. SG, on the other hand, met with her client, and left. I believe the last person to see her was the driver. And about the driver, I read different articles. Some say the driver/boyfriend/pimp are all the same person. Other articles say the driver and the boyfriend were two different people...? Hmmm..

 

[Tugela]

Bodies #1-4 (Maureen, Melissa, Megan and Amber) are from:

July of 2007

July of 2009

June of 2010

September of 2010


If we look at this as a June/July and September pattern...

We are missing:

September 2007.

June/July 2008.

September 2008.

September 2009.


There ARE missing women who match these times. Those 4 could be bodies #5-8. That would cover the 8 bodies we know of... I will be interested to see their identities and when they went missing.

However, we allegedly have a 9th body now... (from family members of victims as well as from Nancy) if there really is 9, I don't think it'll stop there...

If you throw in a couple of more for escalation or opportunistic victims... you could easily get to the next "set of 4."

I think it is possible he escalated in 2010 and claimed 4 instead of the 2 that have been identified. (Possibly Shannan in May...) Maybe even an extra in a previous year. There are missing women who would fit that.

Then maybe he also started earlier... if you add in June/July 2006 and September 2006 - you could have 2 more... there are also missing women who match that.

That could be the next set of 4, if there is indeed more bodies.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010- All id'd, #2


Or maybe the locations of the bodies, the distances of the bodies, the timing of the disappearances and the circumstances surrounding them are just a big ol' coincidence... :innocent:

You are being presumptious about there being sets of 4. More likely the clusters are marked by some sort of landmark, such as a sign or mileage marker, that he was using to get his bearings (at night, with nothing out there it would be pretty difficult to tell where he was otherwise).

The timing for the womens dissappearances suggest that whatever he is doing is seasonal. At least for the women dumped there. He is probably someone who works in that area during summer. If he is killing, he is likely killing at other times of the year as well, but those women are dumped somewhere else.

There will probably be a lot more than the women they have found so far.

 

[Tugela]

I believe the 4 women that were already identified made an appointment with a client, who was indeed, their killer. He called them to meet them, to kill them. SG, on the other hand, met with her client, and left. I believe the last person to see her was the driver. And about the driver, I read different articles. Some say the driver/boyfriend/pimp are all the same person. Other articles say the driver and the boyfriend were two different people...? Hmmm..

If they are working independently on a part time basis (as is the case for with the majority of "craigslist" girls) the driver/boyfriend/pimp indeed would likely be the same person.

 

[internetgirl101]

"The man who drove the missing 24-year-old Jersey City prostitute to her client in Oak Beach, Long Island on May 1 -- the day she went missing -- said today she was "delirious" and "irrational" when she made a 23-minute 911 call from the john's house.
Another man, the boyfriend of Shannon Maria Gilbert, told The Jersey Journal today that he initially thought Gilbert, of Christopher Columbus Drive in Jersey City, had left him when she didn't return home....On May 3, the boyfriend and the driver returned to Oak Beach in search of Gilbert and checked local beaches and area hospitals, according to the driver."

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2010/12/boyfriend_and_the_driver_of_sh.html