NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

[scandi]

The four women identified so far were all lured to Long Island by Craigslist ads, as was Gilbert.

The bodies of the four were all wrapped in burlap.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...li_beach_nkxe20Btof0RQJCICvMzAJ#ixzz1IdPBbS00


The first discovery of human remains was made at 2:45 p.m. Saturday in nearby Oak Beach when Canine Section Officer John Mallia and his dog, Blue, were searching along the parkway. They found skeletal remains between Cedar Beach and Gilgo Beach.

Police found the three additional unidentified bodies while searching the scene for evidence related to the original incident. The bodies were each about 500 feet apart from each other and had been there for at least one month, police said.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/12/13/2-bodies-found-in-oak-beach-in-3-days/

This article from December 2010 talks about the FIRST 4 bodies. Maureen, Melissa, Megan and Amber.

Officer John Mallia was walking his dog Blue when Blue led him to the first body. He found the FIRST body (as well as Nicole Tessa a week later.)

Then they did a search and found the next 3 bodies.

Then they said that THOSE bodies (#1-4) had been there for at least a month.

We have not heard much about how long the three bodies found MONDAY had been there... bodies #6-8.

Of the new victims, Varrone would say only that their remains had been there for some time.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/12/13/2-bodies-found-in-oak-beach-in-3-days/

Shannan Gilbert's sister said on Nancy Grace tonight that they were going to do the DNA as quickly as possible to identify the bodies found Monday, bodies #6-8. I do not believe that they are actually having the family identify anything.

Good Morning MsFacetious, Last night I read several articles and in one of them it was stated the bodies could have been there up to 18 mos. Did you read that anywhere? It could have been wrong info from the media. But I feel strongly this person could have 'stored up' the bodies till he had his set of 4 remains. A very organized killer he is from what we see.

Don't you wish we had info from the ME's office about the bodies? It is so hard to only have a piece of the puzzle.

I'm thinking too that Shannan wasn't one of his victims. Possibly, that is. How freaky would that be that one of this guys victims would be loose, running around talking to people in their homes. That shows no organization on his part so why would he allow that? IMO

Also, Do you know if the SK Albert Fish was from Long Island? Ta

 

[carbuff]

I could be wrong, obviously, but Shannon sounds like either she was having a psychotic episode or she was being stalked by somebody she knew, maybe an ex. The circumstances just don't seem right -- but on the other hand, she does fit the profile.

 

[minazoe]

I think you might be onto something with your DOT worker theory, I was wondering if it was a game or wildlife preservation person.

I also had this theroy and posted it a while back...not to be petty.

 

[minazoe]

I wonder if he lives somewhere else and has a little cottage there...maybe he shares it...
maybe he lives a couple hours away ...would it make sense to have a place there? what are the big draws there? concerts? is there fishing or any recreational stuff?

 

[ThoughtFox]

Could the killer have possibly, with a truck, reversed into the brush to let the body out? If it is possible, I think it would be easier to ram a truck through...no dragging, lifting..he wouldn't even have to get out of the vehicle. All the locations, from the photos, look like they go in a tiny bit further, unless law enforcement cut through after they found something?

Thanks. I read the remains were 20 to 30 ft off the road. I was thinking 20 feet deep into the underbrush. Didn't realize there was such a large shoulder on the highway. If he had a long-bed pickup, the bed would extend several feet past the rear tires, then opening the tailgate would add some more distance. And noone would think anything of seeing a burlap bag in the back of a pickup - at least not before this. Looks like he could have backed up to the edge of the brush, opened the tailgate, and rolled her right off. Seems like taking time to pose her would be an extra risk, but if the victims were all facing the same direction, that would seem to be more than coincidental.

I somehow just don't think so - it's probably too sandy and he would get stuck. Cars and trucks tend to sink into the sand even if there is groundcover. I doubt he would take that risk even at night. JMOO

(Personal story: I had a friend who pulled just a few inches off the road in the Arizona desert for a few minutes to heed the call of nature, and then he realized his car was so stuck in the sand he couldn't get out. He had to call Triple A to come pull him out.)

 

[carbuff]

I wonder if he lives somewhere else and has a little cottage there...maybe he shares it...
maybe he lives a couple hours away ...would it make sense to have a place there? what are the big draws there? concerts? is there fishing or any recreational stuff?

He certainly could.

Yes, concerts, fishing, clamming, summer homes for rich and not so rich from NY, NJ, NE -- and only a few miles from Jones Beach where all the NYC people go in the summer.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I somehow just don't think so - it's probably too sandy and he would get stuck. Cars and trucks tend to sink into the sand even if there is groundcover. I doubt he would take that risk even at night. JMOO

(Personal story: I had a friend who pulled just a few inches off the road in the Arizona desert for a few minutes to heed the call of nature, and then he realized his car was so stuck in the sand he couldn't get out. He had to call Triple A to come pull him out.)

A 4 wheel drive could do it. I live on the coast and 4x4 trucks and suv's drive on the beach and the sand is really thick here in NC. Just my :twocents:

wm

 

[SpyBunny]

I wonder if they have checked all 4 wheel drive approved licenses for driving on the beach, all fishing licences, or tickets for not having and in the past few years have all of the above,,,,I saw at Modells this huge cooler with wheels some large enough to fit alot of fish and or possibley a small person which ive also seen fisherman use for preserving the fish they catch,,

 

[scandi]

Thanks.

I don't think he's necessarily looking for desolation. I think he's looking for a convenient place to dump the trash on his way back to the city after a satisfying weekend. I don't mean to phrase it harshly -- those poor women -- but that seems to be how he thinks about them.

Hi Carbuff, That was the feeling I got from Pat Brown on NG last night, that he lives in Oak Beach and dumped them 'on his way' to driving somewhere else. Maybe that could also mean he stays in Oak Beach and then drives W on Ocean Parkway to go back to his permanent home which is on the mainland. IMO

 

[carbuff]

I somehow just don't think so - it's probably too sandy and he would get stuck. Cars and trucks tend to sink into the sand even if there is groundcover. I doubt he would take that risk even at night. JMOO

(Personal story: I had a friend who pulled just a few inches off the road in the Arizona desert for a few minutes to heed the call of nature, and then he realized his car was so stuck in the sand he couldn't get out. He had to call Triple A to come pull him out.)

Arizona sand is not the same as Atlantic coast sand. If you look about halfway through today's video (http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/Searchers-Back-On-Gilgo-Beach-20110405-APX you can see that the searchers have some of their equipment parked on the grass.

 

[carbuff]

Hi Carbuff, That was the feeling I got from Pat Brown on NG last night, that he lives in Oak Beach and dumped them 'on his way' to driving somewhere else. Maybe that could also mean he stays in Oak Beach and then drives W on Ocean Parkway to go back to his permanent home which is on the mainland. IMO

I don't know that I'd go for "lives in" Oak Beach, but has some reason to be in the area for a summer weekend.

Locals, are there campgrounds there where he could have parked a Winnebago or pickup camper?

 

[athy]

i'm only on page 22 so please forgive me if this has already been suggested. it's been said there is a lot of clamming done in that area. what if this is a truck driver that picks up the clams and takes them to restaurants or where ever they need to go? they would have access to those bags since they would be picking up the clams. they also could push the body (sorry having to say that) out of the passenger side door and the height would give it added push to travel down into the bushes/brush.

many truckers are also on a schedule and go to different areas on a regular basis. my daughter and son-in-law are truck drivers. they have scheduled pickups and drop offs every so many weeks to the same places.

IF the AC murders are connected it could be driver is in the one area during x number of weeks and LI area x numbers of weeks and hate to say this but perhaps another area another x number of weeks. if i were LE i would check with LE up and down the east coast shore to see if there are similiar bodies found in other states.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I'm not sure if this means anything, but thought I'd post it anyway.

Police enter Oak Beach residential area

Originally published: April 5, 2011 12:03 PM
Updated: April 5, 2011 1:05 PM

"About a half-dozen police vehicles involved into the search drove into the gated Oak Beach community, where Shannan Gilbert, 24, was last seen alive nearly a year ago. Other police command vehicles remained parked along the parkway."

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/police-enter-oak-beach-residential-area-1.2801373

 

[stillwatersc]

IF the AC murders are connected it could be driver is in the one area during x number of weeks and LI area x numbers of weeks and hate to say this but perhaps another area another x number of weeks. if i were LE i would check with LE up and down the east coast shore to see if there are similiar bodies found in other states.

Some differences, but another group of 4 in Daytona:

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/01/10/a-serial-killer-on-the-loose.html

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58261&highlight=daytona+beach+serial+killer

 

[SurfieTX]

Crime experts predicted the latest sets of remains are connected to the slayings of the other four women.

"This is the work of one or two people, and most likely one person, and they're clearly linked," said Lawrence Kobilinsky, a forensic scientist at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

"Murderers don't know to go to this one area to drop off bodies. The odds are unthinkable that it's not the same individual."

Joseph Pollini, a former NYPD cold case investigator, said the proximity of the latest remains to the other four strongly suggests they were also victims of a serial killer. "This seems fairly systematic and fairly focused, and looks like one individual dropping them off," he said.

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/police-enter-oak-beach-residential-area-1.2801373

 

[Verity]

Not many down here, sorry. There are tons of party boats in the area, clamming, and further East- Farms. But Ocean parkway isn't the best, most convenient roadway to North Fork farms. Nor as desolate as some areas around the farms...

BBM: I beg to differ. Desolate is not a word I would use to describe any part of the North Fork. It's rural countryside, meaning lots of open space and farmland, vineyards, small villages. Of course these are interwoven with wooded areas, but I don't think of woods as desolate places and the parks are manned all Summer.

I do agree with you that Ocean Parkway isn't the most convenient roadway to get to and from the North Fork farms if you're traveling from points west of Jones Beach Ampitheater, and traveling for work commuter purposes, but it's used by many people located east of JB, for scenic reasons to get to other parts of Nassau, as much as convenience for the theater.

Now, I'm starting to see how the dates fit with Atlantic City, and seasonal workers, I'm thinking:

1. Possible Seasonal Worker Locations,
a) Nikon Jones Beach Ampitheater
b) Long Beach Boardwalk
c) East End of LI

2. Nature of Seasonal Work
Landscapers do not "winter" in Atlantic City, neither lifeguards, they go South to warmer climes, so my attention would be on:
a) Security personnel
b) Hospitality - bartenders, food/concession stands
c) Cleaners - trash removal

All of whom I imagine could move seasonally between LI and Atlantic City. There's no casinos out east, but casino boats from points further west - I'm not sure, but imagine places like Freeport and Long Beach also hire in extra seasonal staff in their hundreds between MD and LD.

I appreciate 1 victim went missing May 1st, but most seasonal staff start before then - ads currently out now for this year already.

 

[Aleph]

I think you might be onto something with your DOT worker theory, I was wondering if it was a game or wildlife preservation person.

If it's someone who (for example) cuts the grass nearby, revisiting the crime scene while on the job could give him an extra thrill. That would be very high-risk, and akin to pooping where you eat, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

 

[MsFacetious]

Good Morning MsFacetious, Last night I read several articles and in one of them it was stated the bodies could have been there up to 18 mos. Did you read that anywhere? It could have been wrong info from the media. But I feel strongly this person could have 'stored up' the bodies till he had his set of 4 remains. A very organized killer he is from what we see.

Don't you wish we had info from the ME's office about the bodies? It is so hard to only have a piece of the puzzle.

I'm thinking too that Shannan wasn't one of his victims. Possibly, that is. How freaky would that be that one of this guys victims would be loose, running around talking to people in their homes. That shows no organization on his part so why would he allow that? IMO

Also, Do you know if the SK Albert Fish was from Long Island? Ta

Good Afternoon Scandi :seeya:

I have seen a few articles that stated that the first four bodies had been there at least a month and as long as 18 months. (I will quote and link them below.) That was before they identified them and knew when they went missing. I am guessing it is probably 3 months - 3 years... since the first went missing in 2007 and the most recent in September 2010. At least I am hoping he does not keep them alive for months before killing them.

I thought he might store them until he gets 4 bodies and then dump them all. If he does, it doesn't sound like he prevents them from decomposing in the meantime. So I am not so sure about that... maybe he really does go back and dump more bodies. Perhaps this would also give him a chance to ensure the previous ones were still where he left them?

It would definitely be very nice to know how these women died. The Atlantic City women were asphyxiated... but we may not know that with these women.

Shannan's public display, calling 911... is the reason I have a hard time believing that the man who hired her is involved at all. (That and some have gone so far as to say the police cleared him.)

However, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for me to think the killer may have had a scanner for some reason and heard that call and responded... then saw her as a victim of opportunity. If she IS one of his victims there is a reason she doesn't fit the pattern of timing and no last known location. Victim of opportunity could be one of those reasons.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-victims-Craigslist-killer.html#ixzz1IfhwPVHM

Megan Waterman...

'She wasn't a $20 corner girl. She said, "Mom, you can't believe the clients we have: doctors, police officers, famous people."


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...osing-remains-people-near-secluded-beach.html

He said the skeletal remains of all four people appear to have been there for at least a month, but 'some appear to be have been there longer than others'.

Detectives said today that the bodies could have been tossed there as long as 18 months ago.

The different levels of decomposition suggested the victims were dumped there at different times, police said.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Body-Search-Resumes-Along-LI-Beach-118862714.html


Investigators believe the bodies were systematically dumped over a period of 18 months or longer, and that the killings are linked.

The women's causes of death have yet to be revealed; but it's believed each was killed in the same way by the same person or persons, said Suffolk DA Thomas Spota at a January news conference.

"This fits the definition of what a serial killer would be," Spota added.


Albert Fish was born in Washington DC and then moved to New York when he was 20. He did some time in Sing Sing at 33... then committed crimes in Deleware and Washington DC. In New York, Staten Island, Brooklyn, Waterloo, Manhattan and spent time in Bellevue Psychiatric Hospital. He was convicted in White Plains at age 64 and executed at Sing Sing 10 months later.

 

[MsFacetious]

There is DNA in these (Daytona) cases... so if they get DNA from the Long Island cases, they could rule out a connection here.

I hope they got DNA...

Some differences, but another group of 4 in Daytona:

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/01/10/a-serial-killer-on-the-loose.html

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58261&highlight=daytona+beach+serial+killer

 

[iluvhitchens]

If this has been discussed before please forgive me and enlighten me! These cops are having such a difficult time looking-I understand some have poison ivy and they are worried about ticks. How is it, that a cop driving slowly had something catch his eye? And this is not the same cop who found the first 4 right? Also, a woman runs screaming from Joe Brewer(or we assume it to be Joe) and the police do not consider him a suspect???? I wonder who were the men these other ladies last made contact with? What/who got them to that area? Was the money offered that good??? Could these johns be a front? I don't really know what I am trying to say--I am confused. I have so many problems with this story. But it is obvious this person(s) knows the area VERY WELL. I don't think this is someone that moves.