NY-Long Island-Four bodies found on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #1

[chemcopout]

Atlantic City police identified the victims as Molly Jean Dilts, 20; Kim Raffo, 35; Tracy Ann Roberts, 23; and Barbara V. Breidor, 42.

Found in a drainage ditch in Egg Harbor Township on Monday was identified. The woman is 23-year-old Tracy Ann Roberts. Roberts was a 5'8" tall, white female, about 120 pounds with a butterfly tattoo on the small of her back.

Kim Raffo, 35.

Breidor, 5'7" white female, weighing between 140 and 150 pounds who was dressed in Capri blue pants and a long-sleeved brown zippered jacket when her body was found.

Ms. Dilts — a 5-foot, 160-pound blue-eyed woman with a bulldog tattooed on her back, a Playboy bunny tattooed on her right shoulder, and “Molly” tattooed near her navel.

Thats all I can find. HTH

trigger, thank you so much for posting this, it's extremely helpful!!

 

[chemcopout]

Those are streetwalkers though, not escorts.

from what soul describes it definitely sounds like highly organized prostitution, and not streetwalkers.

missizzy really posted helpful stuff for us, i've seen a show on one of the cable channel that describes it as she did down to a t.
a regular girl thought she was getting a modeling job, met with a man and woman, they gave her attention, groomed her, and then she got stuck in prostitution. they were extremely controlling.

it seems theres a form of "highly organized" prostitution, these people are making the big bucks, they aren't pimps and hookers on streetcorners. it's a different business, the money is higher.

 

[chemcopout]

From all age groups but mostly middle age to older guys. The women are usually in their 20s to mid 30s. Young men generally dont need to pay to meet woman that age (older guys do) and don't have the money anyway.

I would guess the perp is likely in his 40s or 50s.

while it is true that there are many "hook up" sites for young men and women, we need to realize it's possible that there may be something physically wrong with the serial killer and that he could still be a young man, yet due to whatever is physically wrong with him, he doesn't get dates well.

on the other hand, he really could be any age and of any look.

i had a female friend who had met random men off a website for only mutual sex. it was very disturbing as i feared for her safety, yet she came home that night. so there are sites available for people to have casual sex encounters.

the problem is, this is a serial killer, he wants to kill them, not just sex. i don't know if he has sex with them.

we can assume he does, yet if there was dna left i've not heard; the remains were likely outdoors too long.

he may have some type of sexual disfunction.

someone had mentioned maybe he checks online at penn station, this is a good idea, as he may go wifi off of public places that hundreds of thousands or more people pass through a day.

he knows how to cover his tracks technologically.

i am wondering if he screens the girls for pimps after he picks them up. he may have sleep with other girls, yet couldn't kill them as he realized they have a pimp. he seems to target girls whose pimp is not near or who are working solo.

as for waterman, if akeem wasn't seen renting the room with her, i am wondering if he stayed on the bus and went to one of the burroughs to pick up drugs?

as for scraps of paper with numbers of johns, i would think the girls program the numbers into their cell phones, possibly using the cell phone planner as well.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I thought this article interesting re traffiking. It's not related to this case but has valuable info IMO.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41360579/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

wm

 

[chemcopout]

despite craiglist having removed the "prostitution" section, many seem to have found a way around it in other sections, even barter.

i've read some "shady" ads even in the barter section about guys looking for a guy who needs his plumbing fixed etc.

young girl needs study help and a tudor. who is going to find a tutor on craigslist, its not safe. they word things carefully so it's not outright.

 

[chemcopout]

I thought this article interesting re traffiking. It's not related to this case but has valuable info IMO.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41360579/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

wm

that's so horrible, 10,000 underage girls and women to the superbowl! they need to call in the reserves to bust up all the rings and their pimps

 

[Soulmagent]

Missizzy

Under the current ad listing how would an add for someone with a foot fetish be worded? And what section would a fetish be listed. Would Fetish date pay more?

I was thinking that SOMETIMES a small foot can be an indication for height but not always which could explain why there is the difference with the one victim.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Missizzy

Under the current ad listing how would an add for someone with a foot fetish be worded? And what section would a fetish be listed. Would Fetish date pay more?

I was thinking that SOMETIMES a small foot can be an indication for height but not always which could explain why there is the difference with the one victim.

Soulmagnet, Good Thinking! I would have never thought of that!

I am the same stature as 3 of these victims, 5 ft/105 and wear 5 1/2 size shoes. My sister is 5 ft 6 inches/130 and also wears a 5 1/2 shoe. (We have sis giggles together about how disproportionate her hand and foot size is to her body stature. Sis is a hoot LOL!)

I really think these girls were advertising independently of an escort service. I also think this person may be wealthy. Here's why I think this......

My bf has a friend who is very wealthy....direct descendent of a US president from years past, raised with a silver spoon and an alcoholic to boot! I'll call him BoBo.

BoBo lives down the street and we walked to his house one night and from there walked to the corner bar / restaurant to watch some friends play in a band. BoBo was feeling randy when we returned to his place after the bar and decided to call an escort service because he was 'lonely'. Dear bf asked me if I wanted to leave but I chose to stay because I was naive yet curious as I was a news reporter at the time.

BoBo looked up a service in the Yellow pages and called. He said "She better be young, she better be cute and she better be hot!" He had to give an address, phone number and credit card number, then the guy called the number back to verify.

Girl shows up wearing a halter top and daisy dukes. She's 21 years old and a single mom, she is driving her own car. She only brings her phone and cigarettes inside. We sat and talked for awhile about 'the life'. She made it clear that it was up to her once she's with a client as to how far it goes. The initial charge was 200.00 for one hr, IIRC. She was articulate, bright, and candid during our discussion.

Once the hour was up, her phone started ringing over and over. It was her pimp/boss. she said her time was up but BoBo insisted he would pay more if she would stay. She excused herself, said she had to go down to her car to fetch her purse and call her boss to let him know all is well. Dear bf and I decided it was time to walk home. It was 1 am at this point and we had spent one hour of BoBo's time shooting the breeze.

BoBo told dear bf the next day that they really hit it off and it 'only' cost him 300 dollars extra for her to stay. I do not know if she was paid separately or what since the initial cc pmt by phone.

Last I heard, BoBo and she became friends and stayed in touch. She supposedly left the lifestyle but this was years ago and we don't socialize with BoBo anymore. I think about that young woman and the risks she took and the things I learned from her that night. It makes me so sad.

I don't know if all escort services take such precautions as the one I mentioned above. It seems to me it would be more difficult to track prostitutes who work independently of such agencies.

Like I said this was years ago so things may be different now. I am learning alot from all of you on this subject.

Just wanted to throw in my :twocents:

MOO

wm

 

[Missizzy]

Yes, even now on CL, something about feet will be mentioned. Just read through the ads on any mid-size city's "Casual Encounters" page. It's pretty clear who's selling sex and there are almost always "teases" as to special services or unique features--large breasts, an "apple-bottom", etc. I saw one yesterday which had not been flagged which proudly announced...."Look like I'm 14 but I'm really 19". One has to wonder.

Just an observation and totally O/T but it is beyond me why CL allows the m4m Casual Encounters site far more leeway as far as graphic descriptions and photos but it sure seems that way to me. Even in tiny little Ashland, it's common place to see teens ("college boys") on there advertising. Having nine sons, it really rattles me.

Being that the Super Bowl issue has come up, it caused one of my earlier threads to be brought back to the front page of the Spotlight on Children page. This is an excellent article about "The Game" as perceived by girls and young women themselves. This is exactly what our family experienced. Please note that you can click on Part 2 at the bottom of the article:

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/06/13175...n-girls-describe-life-in-the-game?ft=1&f=1001

Trafficked Teen Girls Describe Life In 'The Game'

December 10, 2010

You can also listen to this on audio.

 

[svpernin]

This is my first time posting here so I apologize if I am not doing this right. I have read this entire thread and just wanted to add a few things. I’ve been following this case closely, I live in the area and all the victims were women around my age. I’m amazed by the lack of concern I’ve been noticing. I don’t know if people seem less concerned with the crimes because of the lifestyle of the victims or the hush-hush handling by LE (which I know is likely for a good reason), but local media’s coverage has been surprisingly scarce. There’s actually even been talk of massively cutting the budget for the Suffolk County crime lab which is absolutely ridiculous considering there’s a serial killer at large (unless LE knows something we don’t, which is entirely possible).

Anyway, I haven’t seen this posted yet so I wanted to mention it: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...ker_probe_turns_to_fone_calls_from_johns.html

Most of the article is common sense for an investigation of this nature but I found it interesting that they mentioned that they are looking into three specific men who had been in contact with more than one of the victims (At least, that’s what it seems to be saying, the wording is open to interpretation). I wonder if JB is one of those men? I also wonder if they are including SG’s phone records in their search, I think it would be beneficial because I have a feeling she is going to be the key to solving this case (she already has been a critical player in the discovery of the bodies).

My heart goes out to the families of these women. I hope this monster is brought to justice before he is able to rob another child of his/her mother.

To everyone who has been posting on here, keep up the good work, the collective knowledge of concerned individuals could have a great impact on a case like this.

 

[Missizzy]

Welcome, svpernin!! Glad to have you posting.

Many many times, if a woman is thought to have been a prostitute, the case will get little press and ruffle less feathers than say if the murdered person was an elementary school teacher or nurse. To the families of the these women, the pain is the same, however. No one ever does anything to "deserve" to be murdered, IMO.

Soulmagent, I realized I didn't really answer your question about feet (my size too, BTW). I'm assuming that you are talking about feet and not shoes. Unless the woman was extremely petite and child-like, I'm not sure that would show up in the ad. It would probably be discussed during the negotiations. Before the changes, I've seen lists of desires which can be catered to and festishism almost always showed up as well as a number are far less socially accepted ones. I would assume that once a john stated his wishes and if they were unique, the price would go up.

I've seen everything concerning cross-dressing, threesomes, BDSM, special services for oral and anal sex, sex-play involving other bodily fluids--you name it and there's a person out there.

I can remember seeing ads which showed just a photo of a woman's foot in a spike heel. Now, I would expect an ad header to read, "Do you like tiny feet?" or "Any shoe fetish guys out there?" Remember that some men are turned on by feet and other by the shoes.

 

[flourish]

This is my first time posting here so I apologize if I am not doing this right. I have read this entire thread and just wanted to add a few things. I’ve been following this case closely, I live in the area and all the victims were women around my age. I’m amazed by the lack of concern I’ve been noticing. I don’t know if people seem less concerned with the crimes because of the lifestyle of the victims or the hush-hush handling by LE (which I know is likely for a good reason), but local media’s coverage has been surprisingly scarce. There’s actually even been talk of massively cutting the budget for the Suffolk County crime lab which is absolutely ridiculous considering there’s a serial killer at large (unless LE knows something we don’t, which is entirely possible).

Anyway, I haven’t seen this posted yet so I wanted to mention it: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...ker_probe_turns_to_fone_calls_from_johns.html

Most of the article is common sense for an investigation of this nature but I found it interesting that they mentioned that they are looking into three specific men who had been in contact with more than one of the victims (At least, that’s what it seems to be saying, the wording is open to interpretation). I wonder if JB is one of those men? I also wonder if they are including SG’s phone records in their search, I think it would be beneficial because I have a feeling she is going to be the key to solving this case (she already has been a critical player in the discovery of the bodies).

My heart goes out to the families of these women. I hope this monster is brought to justice before he is able to rob another child of his/her mother.

To everyone who has been posting on here, keep up the good work, the collective knowledge of concerned individuals could have a great impact on a case like this.

:wagon: :welcome:

 

[Sonya610]

Under the current ad listing how would an add for someone with a foot fetish be worded?

Look up words like worship, barefoot, toes, etc... Also if there are trendy "code words" they might involve expensive open-toed shoe brands. I don't follow shoes but what are the most well known expensive types?

Foot fetish often involves submissive males worshipping women's feet so the expensive shoe "gifts" would likely be a keyword. Never heard of a serial killer having a foot fetish (other than "Kiss the Girls") but anything is possible.

 

[minazoe]

actually guys, I have read that foot fetish, among other things like panty stealing and peeping are often precursors to serial killing, among other things in childhood like fire starting and abusing animals.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

actually guys, I have read that foot fetish, among other things like panty stealing and peeping are often precursors to serial killing, among other things in childhood like fire starting and abusing animals.

I agree minazoe. Russell Williams stole women's lingerie and dressed up in his loot and photographed himself in said lingerie before he escalated to sexual assault and eventually murder.

MOO

wm

 

[svpernin]

actually guys, I have read that foot fetish, among other things like panty stealing and peeping are often precursors to serial killing, among other things in childhood like fire starting and abusing animals.

I've heard this before, too. Fetishism and peeping seem like the ultimate objectification IMO. It's seeing one specific part of a person rather than the entire person, usually in order to feed some selfish desire. I suppose it correlates with murder because it makes it that much easier to devalue the humanity of the victim?

 

[Soulmagent]

Welcome, svpernin!! Glad to have you posting.

It would probably be discussed during the negotiations. Before the changes, I've seen lists of desires which can be catered to and festishism almost always showed up as well as a number are far less socially accepted ones. I would assume that once a john stated his wishes and if they were unique, the price would go up.

I've seen everything concerning cross-dressing, threesomes, BDSM, special services for oral and anal sex, sex-play involving other bodily fluids--you name it and there's a person out there.

I can remember seeing ads which showed just a photo of a woman's foot in a spike heel. Now, I would expect an ad header to read, "Do you like tiny feet?" or "Any shoe fetish guys out there?" Remember that some men are turned on by feet and other by the shoes.

Sorry to snipp I hate doing it. I read all parts of your post and take in every word Just trying to Highlight specifics.

I was thinking if I was doing this kinda thing I would want to make the most money with least amount of work. So a guy with a foot fetish ad might be something I trolled for if I needed fast cash and I would think it great not to have them touch anyother part of my body. Compared to other aspects of the job ,this one sounds like a breeze. As I have heard some guys will pay good money to pLay with feet and
I would not ever do this just trying to figure stuff out

I was wondering if it was possible the girls ANSWERED the ad that led to their death versing creating one. It would be harder to trace if their was a number that was expected to be called and after everything was done the phone disappeared and the ad did to. It would give the murderer more control over the information that out there.

1. He has the victims phone so nothing is revealed unless/until phone records are looked into. Buys time in case extra time is needed.

2. The ad would be removed as soon as a murder commited.

3. A cheap toss away phone could be tossed or the number changed without ever having have your name attached to it.

4. The phone number in the ad removes the ad being linked to a victims computer in a they contacted for sure kind of way.



I only guessed at a foot fetish because of the height issue and that made sence and works for me. It could be any fetish. I wish we know more about the girls likes and dislikes and limits as I think it would help. I am sure LE has that information. The media will not report on it even if they were told because of the nature of the line of work. I think it is important we remember these girl did look at this as their job.

So Missizzy another question more so about free lancers and girls who work in "smaller offices" if you can help.

Do those girls normaly when chatting about their work offer different kinda of descriptions about what kinda of position they hold an umm.. job title I guess is what I mean.

Like one girl does do somethings would she have a code word the indicated she was a fetish girl and her title would reflect that widely in the network of prostitution?



And yet another didnt do the fetish thing would have a word that means that is not their job.

I am sorry if I am confuzzyling :crazy:

I am just trying to limit what I should be looking for.

 

[Sonya610]

I've heard this before, too. Fetishism and peeping seem like the ultimate objectification IMO. It's seeing one specific part of a person rather than the entire person, usually in order to feed some selfish desire. I suppose it correlates with murder because it makes it that much easier to devalue the humanity of the victim?

That is a very very broad category though. Watching *advertiser censored* is also a form of objectification to feed a "selfish desire" however it is EXTREMELY common, seeing as how 98% of young men have seen *advertiser censored* these days but only a minute fraction will become serial killers it is a mute point.

Fetishes are quite common too just depends on what society sees as "normal" fetish and "not normal". If it is common it is normal (i.e women wearing high heels and stockings) if it is not that common it is "a weird fetish". A foot fetish may seem odd now, but for hundreds of years many women in China had their feet bound and yes, a tiny deformed lotus flower foot was considered the height of mainstream normal eroticism.

 

[Soulmagent]

That is a very very broad category though. Watching *advertiser censored* is also a form of objectification to feed a "selfish desire" however it is EXTREMELY common, seeing as how 98% of young men have seen *advertiser censored* these days but only a minute fraction will become serial killers it is a mute point.

Fetishes are quite common too just depends on what society sees as "normal" fetish and "not normal". If it is common it is normal (i.e women wearing high heels and stockings) if it is not that common it is "a weird fetish". A foot fetish may seem odd now, but for hundreds of years many women in China had their feet bound and yes, a tiny deformed lotus flower foot was considered the height of mainstream normal eroticism.

I have not ever met anyone who admitted to having a foot fetish but I do not think it to be a weird fetish in the terms you present it in .

I do believe many normal people have foot fetishes.

I am not trying to hate on foot fetish people at all. I think he may have listed there for the height /size issue.

His ad may say.

I love small feet. etc... because of his assumption small feet small woman.

He may have a foot fetish which if he is the same murderer as in NJ explains the woman being found still in her clothes.

Anyone else got a mini profile?

I have foot fetish and ideology of some sort.

My opinions were based soley on the Ocean parkway victims.

 

[Aleph]

From all age groups but mostly middle age to older guys. The women are usually in their 20s to mid 30s. Young men generally dont need to pay to meet woman that age (older guys do) and don't have the money anyway.

I would guess the perp is likely in his 40s or 50s.

BBM.

Makes sense. If the perp is older, that might explain his preference for smaller women. I just finished John Douglas's book on the BTK killer, who had to retire due to age. He just wasn't as good at controlling his victims anymore.