GUILTY OH - Barbara Weaver, 30, murdered in her Apple Creek home, 2 June 2009

[Jen38]

". In this community of quiet-spoken, humble pacifists, such behavior "really stands out against the social landscape," observes Medical Sociologist Janice Egeland, who has spent more than 25 years among the Old Order Amish, as the group is formally known. When it does occur, the Amish often have an explanation: "Siss im blut," they say; the peculiar behavior is "in the blood."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,963725,00.html

This is a very interesting article and, for anyone wanting to know more, there is plenty of information available. I'd like to point out that schizophrenia is the next level up from manic depression.

My opinion only

It would be interesting to see a comparison, percentage wise, of the level of incidence in the Amish community versus us 'English', as they refer to us. I appreciate the link - thanks.

 

[nursebeeme]

We have been in the military nearly 20 years, but I grew up in this area... in Wayne County Ohio (in a farm town outside of Wooster). Most Amish only keep a gun for hunting. My guess is that a hunting rifle is the murder weapon. I would also hazard a guess that this family lived on a farm or had relatives that did who they helped with morning farm chores that start VERY early. I also would bet that the TOD is sometime after the husband left on his alleged fishing trip and before the rest of the family was up to start the day.

This story is sad to me on so many levels. If you have never been to Amish country in Ohio.. I can not even begin to describe it... Every time I go home to Ohio I just don't want to leave again. Time slows down. Things are simple. Everything in life is taken to its' lowest possible denominator. Things like this just don't happen... This is a sad day.

 

[nursebeeme]

as to the hunting and fishing store the family supposedly owned (a few links up) does anyone know the name of it? I may just know some of these people! The Millers and the Troyers are very common large families ((of which I actually know quite a few))

 

[nursebeeme]

Bishop Leroy Keim was among family and friends to gather at the Weaver home, fronted by a well-tended garden and surrounded by outbuildings. The Weaver family business, Maysville Outfitters, is located on the family property.

http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4599974

yes.....I know this business.....

 

[nursebeeme]

Also, other posters had asked about crimes being covered up in the Amish community. I can tell you that if there was abuse in the home no one would hear about it (99.9% of the time)

Also, I want to know the ages of the children. The gunshot wound was to the chest. Could this have been a horrible accident? Also the Daily Record is reporting that they do not yet know if a weapon was recovered in the home http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4599974

 

[daisy.faithfull]

We have been in the military nearly 20 years, but I grew up in this area... in Wayne County Ohio (in a farm town outside of Wooster). Most Amish only keep a gun for hunting. My guess is that a hunting rifle is the murder weapon. I would also hazard a guess that this family lived on a farm or had relatives that did who they helped with morning farm chores that start VERY early. I also would bet that the TOD is sometime after the husband left on his alleged fishing trip and before the rest of the family was up to start the day.

This story is sad to me on so many levels. If you have never been to Amish country in Ohio.. I can not even begin to describe it... Every time I go home to Ohio I just don't want to leave again. Time slows down. Things are simple. Everything in life is taken to its' lowest possible denominator. Things like this just don't happen... This is a sad day.

About the likelihood that a rifle would have been used... don't rifles make a louder noise than handguns? And, can rifles use a silencer?

It hasn't "clicked" for me until now that a farm might indicate that the families next door neighbors might not live close enough to have heard a gun shot...

It is very sad that something like this happened in such a quiet community... it probably makes it all the more horrifying for the community, especially the children since they just aren't exposed to this stuff like we are.

Oh, that makes me think of another question... I know they wouldn't have televisions, radios, or computers to be aware of what is being reported outside the community are saying about this, I wonder it they allow newspapers from outside the community or just those published within?

 

[nursebeeme]

Oh, that makes me think of another question... I know they wouldn't have televisions, radios, or computers to be aware of what is being reported outside the community are saying about this, I wonder it they allow newspapers from outside the community or just those published within?

respectfully snipped. They would most likely have a radio. They can read the newspaper. The local paper to Apple Creek is the Wooster Daily Record. Also, Amish business owners are usually allowed a cell phone to conduct business only. I wonder myself if Eli had the phone and it was on him.

Also, for a bit more insight into the Amish community there.. Our WalMart in Wooster and our McDonalds have a buggy hitch (as do many other local businesses).. and it is not uncommon to see buggies in town. The other way that Amish get around is by a driver. I have a good friend who "drives the Amish".. it is a kind of taxi per se.. It is an econoline van. He will take people to the store, to the Doctor, etc... Some business owners will have a truck or car.. if it is used for business. For example.. there are a lot of cabinet makers, and roofers in the area.. they are allowed cars and trucks for this purpose. Sometimes they will hire an English driver.. and sometimes they will drive themselves depending on the order they belong to.

Here also is a piece on Rumschpringe (when teens are allowed to explore the English world before they accept the Amish religion).. I can tell you many a story myself.. but check it out.

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/may/amish/

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Also, other posters had asked about crimes being covered up in the Amish community. I can tell you that if there was abuse in the home no one would hear about it (99.9% of the time)

Also, I want to know the ages of the children. The gunshot wound was to the chest. Could this have been a horrible accident? Also the Daily Record is reporting that they do not yet know if a weapon was recovered in the home http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4599974

I don't think I've seen the ages of the children anywhere which seems unusual don't you think? It seems like 30 is awful young to have 5 children so maybe she had her first early and/or she had them close together?

If she was shot in the bedroom though wouldn't it be strange that a child would be in there with his mom and accidently shot her?

Then again since it is a possibility the mother was abusing the child due to untreated mental issues maybe a child was retaliating? I really, really hate to mention that, but considering the CNN article that Blackwatch posted, mental illness doesn't discriminate between men or women does it? That was an interesting article Blackwatch, it is cool of the Amish to allow us access to those records because it looks like it helps with "our" scientific community's understanding of mental illness.

 

[nursebeeme]

The Amish typically marry VERY young... having 5 by the age of 30 is really not that big of a deal.. I agree about the mental illness factor. I also wonder if it could have been suicide and wonder what the age of the youngest child is (PPD)

 

[daisy.faithfull]

The Amish typically marry VERY young... having 5 by the age of 30 is really not that big of a deal.. I agree about the mental illness factor. I also wonder if it could have been suicide and wonder what the age of the youngest child is (PPD)

Hadn't even considered depression/PPD/suicide. She would have had to have been very troubled to suicide and leave only her children to find her. This is so sad.

Thank you nursebeeme for the first hand knowledge you've shared! I really hope that the media keeps us updated because I'd like to see that the family gets answers and justice.

 

[Jolynna]

I find it frustrating, too, that nothing more has been said in the papers. Is it because there truly is nothing more to report, or is it because of the "code of silence" (with the outside world) the Amish adhere to? I mean, if no one's talking, no one's talking.....we've seen that before.

It's possible the husband killed her before he left for his fishing trip (maybe he thought that would provide him with an alibi. It was also reported that none of the children heard any shots. Maybe that could have been muffled by a pillow/comforter/quilt -- (I don't know anything about guns, and don't even know if it's possible to silence the sound of a shot, without a silencer.)

I have also heard the various stories about sexual abuse within the community (not that one in particular, just the Amish as a whole) -- and stories of young girls being "given" to older men (uncles, etc.)...I don't know how much of that is true, and how much is just imagined by outsiders because we know so little about what goes on within the community, which makes you imagine the worst. I do remember the 20/20 epsidoe that was done (or was it dateline?) that "exposed" all the craziness that goes on with the young Amish (drinking, using electric devices, smoking, etc.). None of that was any surprise to anyone who lives near an Amish community (growing up, all we heard on Sunday nights was the vibrations from boom boxes mixed with the clopping of horse hooves going down our road well past 2 am).

The 20/20 episode was called Satan's Playground.

I have more Amish neighbors than "English". Some of them I know really, really well. My husband calls himself the adopted son of a 93 year old Amish lady that he sends flowers to every mother's day and on her birthday. She made us a quilt. My husband probably spends more time hanging out with Amish neighbors than "English".

I don't think it is possible to gather humans without having some hypocrites and evil doers included in the midst. People are people.

It is my impression that a lot that goes on is handled within the community. But, I can't say that is something I've been told directly by an Amish aquaintance.

JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Also, other posters had asked about crimes being covered up in the Amish community. I can tell you that if there was abuse in the home no one would hear about it (99.9% of the time)

Also, I want to know the ages of the children. The gunshot wound was to the chest. Could this have been a horrible accident? Also the Daily Record is reporting that they do not yet know if a weapon was recovered in the home http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4599974

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/19637690/detail.html
This article doesn't seem to say anything that we haven't learned already, except that Barbara was found by her nine year old boy.

 

[nursebeeme]

The 20/20 episode was called Satan's Playground.

I have more Amish neighbors than "English". Some of them I know really, really well. My husband calls himself the adopted son of a 93 year old Amish lady that he sends flowers to every mother's day and on her birthday. She made us a quilt. My husband probably spends more time hanging out with Amish neighbors than "English".

I don't think it is possible to gather humans without having some hypocrites and evil doers included in the midst. People are people.

It is my impression that a lot that goes on is handled within the community. But, I can't say that is something I've been told directly by an Amish aquaintance.

JMO

I just rewatched "devil's playground"... outstanding documentary.

It takes me back home. ((oh how the military life with all the moving can wear on the soul! I long for home!))

 

[oh_gal]

About the likelihood that a rifle would have been used... don't rifles make a louder noise than handguns? And, can rifles use a silencer?

It hasn't "clicked" for me until now that a farm might indicate that the families next door neighbors might not live close enough to have heard a gun shot...

It is very sad that something like this happened in such a quiet community... it probably makes it all the more horrifying for the community, especially the children since they just aren't exposed to this stuff like we are.

Oh, that makes me think of another question... I know they wouldn't have televisions, radios, or computers to be aware of what is being reported outside the community are saying about this, I wonder it they allow newspapers from outside the community or just those published within?

I had to comment on your comment about them not having televisions, radios, the internet, etc. I take my daughters to storytime at our local library....and it always amazes me (just a bit) to see all of the Amish people sitting at the internet stations, surfing the net. They seem very at ease doing this....so while they may not subscribe to the local daily paper, they have ways of knowing what's going on in the world around them.

 

[oh_gal]

The Amish typically marry VERY young... having 5 by the age of 30 is really not that big of a deal.. I agree about the mental illness factor. I also wonder if it could have been suicide and wonder what the age of the youngest child is (PPD)

What I found interesting during one of the interviews done with an Amishman (don't know who he was...they didn't show his face, only his hands on the handlebars of what I assume was a scooter.....as he was commenting on the death, he said something to the effect of, 'well, maybe she had some enemies.' That statement just seems so "odd" to me...the first time I heard it, it stuck out at me, and it's bothered me ever since. It seemed cryptic to me, but maybe this poor man was just trying to make sense of what had happened in his community.

I've searched, but that video, the first one shown when the story broke last week, is apparently gone, and has been replaced by others. It was shown on News Net 5's website, www.newsnet5.com.

(I hope I was allowed to post my paraphrased quote without having a direct link to the video to substantiate it. If not, mods, please remove my post. Thanks!)

 

[Blackwatch]

I had to comment on your comment about them not having televisions, radios, the internet, etc. I take my daughters to storytime at our local library....and it always amazes me (just a bit) to see all of the Amish people sitting at the internet stations, surfing the net. They seem very at ease doing this....so while they may not subscribe to the local daily paper, they have ways of knowing what's going on in the world around them.

Your observation about the internet use in libraries pointed something out to me. The Amish are not allowed to have most modern things, cars, computers, and usually, no electricity. However, even though they can't own these things, they can USE them. That has always seemed a bit hypocritcal to me. No offense intended, just an observation.

 

[impatientredhead]

With no witnesses, no documentation of earlier abuse, and the husband being on a fishing trip this will be a very difficult case to prosecute unless they literally can find the gun that was used with only one persons prints on them.

 

[oh_gal]

Your observation about the internet use in libraries pointed something out to me. The Amish are not allowed to have most modern things, cars, computers, and usually, no electricity. However, even though they can't own these things, they can USE them. That has always seemed a bit hypocritcal to me. No offense intended, just an observation.

That's always been hard for me to grasp, too. I know that each local community sets it's own rules (on whether you can use, say, gasoline powered weed eaters, for instance). As for riding in cars, I think the main point is that it not be a "convenience" for them -- they can do it, but it shouldn't be so easy, that they do it rather than using their horse and buggy.

While it's true the Amish around here are allowed to have cell phones IF they have a business, and use it for those purposes only, that's never the way it goes...so while we "think" they're living a life of shunning modern conveniences, that's not entirely true. I personally know of one Amish guy who asked me the other day if I'd seen the movie, "Hotel for Dogs." When I said I hadn't, he said he had, and that he really liked it. I said, "how did you see it?" He said, "I have a portable DVD player." I said, "How in the world do you charge it up?" He said, "Oh, I bring it into work here, and they let me use their electricity." (He works in a certain supercenter). And this was not a young guy, going through his "rumschpringe".

 

[akashana]

Re the incidences of inbreeding in the Amish, they keep reams of geneological records of all births, deaths and marriages to avoid just this issue, but as is the problem in all closed communities (whether they are closed to outsiders by design or geography), stuff happens, and as was mentioned, it is dealt with in the community. Since children are schooled through only the 7th grade (IIRC) at Amish-taught schools, they can effectively hide any mental deficiencies or other hallmarks of inbreeding from society at large.

None of the above is meant to be disparaging of the Amish. I, too, grew up in Ohio, and it was common to see Amish families drive their horse-drawn buggies to the Ohio Valley Mall in full Amish dress. i have always respected their pacifism and self-sufficiency, and I think that they allow teens their Rumspringa period is what sets them apart from other, more cult-like, religious communities. They want their kids to understand fully what they are giving up and to do so with a clear heart and mind.

And most of the kids do surrender all worldly ties and return to the simple life of an Amish community.

 

[Pandora]

The Amish here have laptops & various appliances that run on battery power which recharges using a generator. (Allegedly Old Order, but you can't prove it by me.)

I once gave an Amish man a ride and my former MIL had a fit! She worked in a video store and they would come in and rent the raunchiest *advertiser censored* in the back room. She made me swear that I would never pick up another.