GUILTY OH - Elaina Steinfurth, 17 months, Toledo, 2 Jun 2013 - #4

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LittleRose, thank you for such a carefully composed and informative post!

Welcome to WS :)

btw, I don't post much but I read a LOT...and I really like what you have to say.

~jmo~
 
Solitaryone said:
I really hope AS and SK didn't throw baby Elaina in that river. Where else could they have put her? What does everyone think about whether they put her in the river or somewhere else? And what does everyone think the reasons could be that TPD asked the judge to delay until Monday? I would think they'd have more than one reason, at least I hope so. Just very frustrated. And sad as well as angry.
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I think AS has been trying to draw attention to that river from the beginning, which makes me think she is nowhere near there. We've got witnesses who saw her and SK out around midnight the night before. I believe we've also heard that SK picked AS and the children up from somewhere. We see on the video what looks like AS walking away with Elaina only so I'm still wondering where K was at this time and how they ended up all together for SK to pick them up and where they were at the time. Also what time was it when SK picked them up and what condition was Elaina in at that time? What did that text message that only SK could help her mean?

SK has to be involved somehow because he seems to be sticking to the story that Elaina was fine until she was put down for a nap. But he also seems to be abandoning the "mysterious intruder" storyline by suggesting AS was in and out of the house prior to Elaina going missing. I believe he was lying and that Elaina was removed from the house either around midnight or sometime during one of the "store runs" in the AM.

I suppose the river part could be true but unfortunately there just seems like there could be so many other alternatives given that we can't even pinpoint when Elaina disappeared from the house.

MOO
 
Tonya421 said:
I know she had a lawyer at her first court appearance, but I don't remember his name
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I've not followed this sad case closely enough to know the details, but I had figured the lawyer we saw in court was appointed aka a Public Defender. Does anyone know for sure?

~jmo~
 
ArianeEmory said:
Is it weird that we haven't heard anything about/from AS's lawyer? Does she have one yet? I would think one of those celeb defense attorneys would have swooped in by now.
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I would think she has been assigned an attorney from the public defenders office. And for the sake of that sweet baby girl and her paternal family, I pray that none of those "celebrity" attorneys step foot into Toledo.

MOO
 
LittleRose said:
Don't we all want a fairytale ending to this story? She's been in the care of a wonderful great aunt of a cousin twice removed from AS all these weeks. Baby Elaina is happy and healthy and enjoying life as a toddler in the month of June in Toledo, Ohio. God, that is my desire here. But, look at the house in which she was last seen alive! Look at the video of the mom swatting her with a magazine at the edge of the porch! Listen to the stories of the verbally and physically abusive mom and the recovering heroine-addicted boyfriend. What is the reality?

I always want to ask, "Why?"

Traumagenic dynamics- trauma is passed down through generations. AS is several generations in the making. According to her sister, their mother was not in their lives. Was AS abandoned by her mother? Was she left unprotected? Was she 'thrown away' or 'tossed in life's murky waters and swift currents'? History repeats itself.

To me, AS is looking like a typical borderline (personality disorder): depression; anxiety; substance abuse; impulse control; black and white thinking; fear of abandonment; raging; etc. It's a serious mental illness. It doesn't mean she's not responsible for her actions. It does, however, explain her self-destructive nature and her disassociation/disconnection from her feelings/empathy.

I fear her sweet baby girls have always been at risk for severe abuse and/or neglect.

I'm wondering if any mental health professionals lurking on this board can explain the subconscious abandonment fears that plague borderline moms when their babies start to walk. I have been told they will defend against that inevitable independence on the baby's part by abandoning the baby first, either emotionally or physically, or both?

Could that phenomenon be at the heart of this "disappearance"?
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Borderline Personalities do not see shades of gray- everything is extreme and black and white, as you said. If you are constantly on guard waiting to be abandoned/ rejected and can only see in black and white, then when a child that used to depend completely on you for everything begins to display some level of independence, then the threat of change from "needs me" to "doesn't need me" can be overwhelming. Remember, we can grieve the loss of dependency while also celebrating the strength and growth of independence at the same time (black and white= gray.) Think about if you could only see one of those at a time, and to an intense extreme. The grieving/ loss therefore rejection... the dark. It could be very scary for them to trust the baby to begin with, which can exacerbate the later feelings of rejection/ no longer being needed. Rejection to BPD can be like life or death to their existence, and their emotional reactions can be that intense- fight or flight kind of response. I do not know enough about her to guess as to her mental disability/ personality disorder as yet, if ever. It is always a red flag, though, when a person is in a relationship with an addict- addicts need co-dependents. AKA man (or person) addicts. Just like with Aliayah (hope I'm spelling her name right) I wonder if the moms are trying to cover for men who are rage- aholics as well as addicts. Too many females put their men ahead of their children, it makes me want to vomit, which may or may not be true in this case.
Hope this helps?
 
I have been following this case almost non stop. I have never been on WS this much nor as often.

We know nothing or at least nothing new. It is all conjunctures being discussed between members.

This is becoming/has become a case like dozens of others. A child disappears, we sort of know (at least to some extent) what happened and by whom and yet they walk away and after a while it is all forgotten.

It is so sad, it is unbelievable. Boy/girl friends, drugs, everything is more important than they are.
 
Frannie said:
I have been following this case almost non stop. I have never been on WS this much nor as often.

We know nothing or at least nothing new. It is all conjunctures being discussed between members.

This is becoming/has become a case like dozens of others. A child disappears, we sort of know (at least to some extent) what happened and by whom and yet they walk away and after a while it is all forgotten.

It is so sad, it is unbelievable. Boy/girl friends, drugs, everything is more important than they are.
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Hi Frannie! ITA with the sentiments you expressed in your post.

I do believe that this particular case will be resolved, and hopefully soon. Apart from the media attention it has received (primarily on NG), there are so many 'parties' involved who can and will be squeezed for information. If they're smart, they'll give it up. It's likely one will turn on another as well, among the whole bunch and most likely AS vs SK.

...just shedding a little light of hope on the subject...

~jmo~
 
LittleRose said:
To me, AS is looking like a typical borderline (personality disorder): depression; anxiety; substance abuse; impulse control; black and white thinking; fear of abandonment; raging; etc. It's a serious mental illness. It doesn't mean she's not responsible for her actions. It does, however, explain her self-destructive nature and her disassociation/disconnection from her feelings/empathy.

I fear her sweet baby girls have always been at risk for severe abuse and/or neglect.

I'm wondering if any mental health professionals lurking on this board can explain the subconscious abandonment fears that plague borderline moms when their babies start to walk. I have been told they will defend against that inevitable independence on the baby's part by abandoning the baby first, either emotionally or physically, or both?

Could that phenomenon be at the heart of this "disappearance"?

I pray that this sweet baby, Elaina, is safe and wrapped in loving arms right now. Mostly, I hope that her beautiful, sad eyes are sparkling and twinkling with joy and peace. This is the kind of story that makes me so badly want to believe in God. Elaina deserves that kind of love and protection.
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Ummm as a borderline personality disorder sufferer I disagree, one of my babies already walks (I have no abandonment issues with him walking) and number 2 baby is just starting to try to walk (again no issues)

I agree her baby girls could have always been at risk, for me I currently take meds, am looked after fortnightly by mental health to ensure I'm ok, because if I'm ok, then my babies are. Borderline a are more common to self harm than anything..

Respectfully I disagree with your statement "typical borderline" as to be honest every borderline is different we only have to exhibit 5 of 9 issues on the scale to be diagnosed with this
 
Kamille said:
I think AS has been trying to draw attention to that river from the beginning, which makes me think she is nowhere near there. We've got witnesses who saw her and SK out around midnight the night before. I believe we've also heard that SK picked AS and the children up from somewhere. We see on the video what looks like AS walking away with Elaina only so I'm still wondering where K was at this time and how they ended up all together for SK to pick them up and where they were at the time. Also what time was it when SK picked them up and what condition was Elaina in at that time? What did that text message that only SK could help her mean?

SK has to be involved somehow because he seems to be sticking to the story that Elaina was fine until she was put down for a nap. But he also seems to be abandoning the "mysterious intruder" storyline by suggesting AS was in and out of the house prior to Elaina going missing. I believe he was lying and that Elaina was removed from the house either around midnight or sometime during one of the "store runs" in the AM.

I suppose the river part could be true but unfortunately there just seems like there could be so many other alternatives given that we can't even pinpoint when Elaina disappeared from the house.

MOO
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I want to think the diversion of the diaper found near the river was just that - a diversion. But I think that's giving her too much credit. She had no other plan with this than to blame it on someone else - IMO. I think she thought no more about a diversion or 'fooling investigators' than she did about where she was sleeping with her kids each night. I believe strongly Elaina was killed in a fit of rage and AS (with help - because she didn't have a vehicle) threw her into the river, leaving the diaper as if it would fit and button up the kidnapping story and that would be it. The problem is the police never stopped putting pressure on her and then VOILA, the poor Elaina WAS injured but it was by THE BOYFRIEND! She had to switch to the backburner story because a week or so went by and the kidnapping story wasn't cutting it.

One question I have is, where was SK during the time before AS was arrested, when they were doing initial searches? Was he right there supporting her to find the baby or was he removing himself further from the situation? To me, what was going on with him during this time is very telling.
 
Please oh please let today be the day! The Steinfurth family needs this little girl Elaina home with them. Praying today is the day!
 
ceecee30 said:
Ummm as a borderline personality disorder sufferer I disagree, one of my babies already walks (I have no abandonment issues with him walking) and number 2 baby is just starting to try to walk (again no issues)

I agree her baby girls could have always been at risk, for me I currently take meds, am looked after fortnightly by mental health to ensure I'm ok, because if I'm ok, then my babies are. Borderline a are more common to self harm than anything..

Respectfully I disagree with your statement "typical borderline" as to be honest every borderline is different we only have to exhibit 5 of 9 issues on the scale to be diagnosed with this
Click to expand...

I agree that borderlines are more likely to turn their rage inward (self-harm), but it seems like the lion's share of these mom's who harm their children end up with the borderline diagnosis, at the minimum.

There is a big behavioral difference between undiagnosed borderlines and those in therapy with insight and the desire to change. There's also a difference between borderlines in the severity of their illness and how the traits are expressed.

I'm interested in understanding As's subconscious motivations. Sounds like she subverted TJ's possible abandonment by abandoning him first (cheating). Also, sounds like her older baby girl, KS, was already a daddy's girl (abandoned AS). Did that perceived rejection coincide with AS's conception of Elaina? You can always have more and more children (some speculate octomom is borderline). AS told her sis she wanted to run off with Elaina, so TJ could never see her again (Elaina would never abandon her). Elaina was slow to walk (severe neglect- left in a playpen for huge chunks of the day will do that). And when she gets more steady on her feet and enters into the tantrum stage as all toddlers do (12-18 months), AS takes her to a hell-hole of a house to spend time with an unstable and dangerous man, who has absolutely no bond with Elaina. Why would a mother do this?

I believe AS loved Elaina.

Just wondering if AS so dreaded Elaina's future independence, which signified abandonment to AS, that she subverted that anticipated rejection, by abandoning Elaina first. This would all be subconscious, of course.

These patterns can go back generations.

My heart breaks for Elaina, another thrown away babiy. This is a tragedy. If only we could turn this nightmare into a fairytale in which Elaina is rescued. I think it's my desire and hope to see that ending, which feuls my interest in a case like this.
 
shana said:
I've not followed this sad case closely enough to know the details, but I had figured the lawyer we saw in court was appointed aka a Public Defender. Does anyone know for sure?

~jmo~
Click to expand...

Yes, she has a public defender, I don't recall what his name is. All we can think of the reason TPD wanted the continuance is that they are holding out for new information or tying up loose ends before they file additional charges.
 
writer7 said:
I've been looking at our maps made by great members here. Does anyone remember who the local was who said she saw buzzards around the Hollywood Casino? I wonder if she ever called that into the police?......If I were a local, I'd search the shore by the casino (buzzards), and I'd probably search under the bridge that takes 75 across the river, too, for good measure. .
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We saw the turkey vultures Monday morning. The casino area was searched already but were sent back out again and also asked to check the entrance/exit ramp circles as that was where the vulture was circling at that time. And yes, someone had already reported that (not sure to who) as others were aware of the buzzards.

Keep reporting those odd things you see! People are doing their best to follow up on "tips" and are reporting them to family or search headquarters. Not everyone wants to call a tip in but are at least telling someone. Friends and family of searchers were on the news sending text updates yesterday which they shared. When that "found at an undisclosed location" came thru, yes, there was panic and people were running to cars headed for the river as that was the obvious while everyone else tried to determine what the????? Along with where??

I came here and got the info Ferretmommy had just posted. Thanks to all the great postings!!! We got the info out and everyone calmed that adrenal buzz down tho' it took a while.

1-800-CALL-FBI
 
Good Morning. I promise to not post from my cell phone anymore due to typos. It is not my forte!

Family and friends are searching today and the family has an event planned at 2 p.m. Search Headquarters is on Leonard at Federal St. Searchers are needed today and everyday until Elaina is found.
https://www.facebook.com/HelpFindElainaSteinfurth?fref=ts

Justice4Nevaeh is organizing searchers tomorrow at 10 a.m. They have a map of areas searched and turn searcher reports/finds over to LE to follow up on.

T.J. and friends were out in a boat early yesterday searching the edges of the Maumee and at Maumee Bay. Family friends were in a boat yesterday afternoon doing something similar. I think this was prompted by the article on the cell mate of AS.

Several people were interviewed again (not T.J.'s family) yesterday morn and the police were at the home of one of the people interviewed in the neighborhood mentioned in the news article. He came down and showed us the card that was left at his house.

I do not think there is any official SAR working on this. From what I know, "Dog Lady" and an Ohio rep of Texas EquuSearch contacted a member of Justice4Nevaeh, last Monday within a half hour of each other. (I was there when the calls came in.) TE said they had to be called in by FBI and was offering services of 45 which was shared with the family. J4N contacted FBI who said to contact the lead detective (on vacation) for permission. That was done and later permission was obtained for TE. (Detective was not familiar with TE.) Now there is a fundraiser in OH stopping TE from attending. An offer to send a couple of "mappers" over to "help" was turned down after consulting with family. During that conversation we found out TE had contacted local news and it was reported they were coming. All I can say is "Dog Lady" showed up with dogs and an offer and areas were searched several different days with Kimber, her dog. TE had a fundraiser. Just sayin'.

We also asked reporters involved with the cell mate story and news released yesterday without being verified, to notify family before they release their stories. (I will not comment on what seemed to be a lack of compassion on the cell mate story as I could be wrong.) Toledo Free Press (or close to that name) must have still been at an undisclosed location so they did not get our message!! One reporter (I will find her name) said they always verify with the police and had come to the search headquarters to verify what had been said as they had heard nothing. Thank you for that! I know T.J.'s family appreciates the news coverage and helping to keep little Elaina's name and story out in the public's eye. I get the reporting first thing, but please let the family know first, especially if it is potentially devastating news!!! This family has been on an emotional roller coaster as the searchers have been.

Again, I say I am just a regular person who lives nearby and I knew no one in Toledo previously. I am down there with Justice4Nevaeh. If I mention their name it is with their permission.

Please join the family wherever you are at 2 p.m. today and light a candle asking Elaina be brought into the Light and found. Thank you.

1-800-CALL-FBI
 
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