OH OH - Jane Gault, 17, Barberton, 14 March 1982

[upallnite]

This is carried over from Thread Uppallnite? It was getting long. Please continue here.

 

[upallnite]

Ok, I don't even know where to begin with this since most of what I knew about this turned out to be totally different than it may have actually happened. I got a police report this morning saying two brothers, T.B and R.B found my sister when they were running their dog. R.B was 33 and T.B was 27. They lived locally. It also states that they tagged into evidence a flight bag and three sweaters. I am assuming they are brothers BTW. Hopefully someone can help me pull useful info onto this thread from the other thread because I've never done that.It said in the report that they thought she was a mannequin, as they had found a mannequin there before?

 

[mysteriew]

Didn't you say that a boy came up to you at school and said that he was there when your sister was found? Was he related to the two men? Do you remember his name? It is possible that he was there, as the LE would most likely have based their report on what the adults said, and they may have missed the fact that he was there. Or he could have meant that after he heard, he went to the canal while they were recovering her body. Either way, it might be worthwhile to talk with him if we can locate him. Do you know the two men? Or know if they are still around?

 

[upallnite]

Yes, that really happened, Maybe they had kids? I don't know.

 

[Shadow205]

Kristy,

You have the 2 names from the police report on the 2 guys that found Jane. CHeck your phone book & see if you locate them. I tried on line & didn't have any luck. They would be able to answer the question once and for all about her hands & feet being bound. I am not sure how you could go about finding out if it is true that the city paid for her entire funeral if the funeral home doesn't have record of it. That is one of the points that really bugs me. Why would they have paid for it? She was not indigent. Hopefully you will get that autopsy report tomorrow.

 

[upallnite]

Kristy,

You have the 2 names from the police report on the 2 guys that found Jane. CHeck your phone book & see if you locate them. I tried on line & didn't have any luck. They would be able to answer the question once and for all about her hands & feet being bound. I am not sure how you could go about finding out if it is true that the city paid for her entire funeral if the funeral home doesn't have record of it. That is one of the points that really bugs me. Why would they have paid for it? She was not indigent. Hopefully you will get that autopsy report tomorrow.

I know, everyone thinks this is odd. I want to contact these guys. Did you notice there are phone numbers on there for them? Doubtful they are current, I wanted to wait until tomorrow to do this because I'd like to speak to them in person if possible and I have to go to work.

 

[shadowangel]

I found only one listing for the last name in Barberton. It was not either of these, and the address is not the same. Could still be related, though. I found 6 TBs, 2 in PA, but only one RB, in NC.

Curiouser and curiouser, one might say. I can only assume the "flight bag" was located somewhere near Jane, though I'm not certain how they would ascertain it belonged to her. The narrative on the report says the two men saw her floating, so there goes the whole "accidentally broke through the ice and drowned" theory. The report is as about as uninformative as we all expected it would be. (BTW, the BC doesn't give the hospital's address, the address is under the mother's info. The two sections are seperate).

Is the autopsy report still pending?

 

[upallnite]

I found only one listing for the last name in Barberton. It was not either of these, and the address is not the same. Could still be related, though. I found 6 TBs, 2 in PA, but only one RB, in NC.

Curiouser and curiouser, one might say. I can only assume the "flight bag" was located somewhere near Jane, though I'm not certain how they would ascertain it belonged to her. The narrative on the report says the two men saw her floating, so there goes the whole "accidentally broke through the ice and drowned" theory. The report is as about as uninformative as we all expected it would be. (BTW, the BC doesn't give the hospital's address, the address is under the mother's info. The two sections are seperate).

Is the autopsy report still pending?

No, I think the pending was before on the medical certificate, then the death certificate says death cause undetermined. SA, did you get all 4 items I sent?

 

[upallnite]

No, I think the pending was before on the medical certificate, then the death certificate says death cause undetermined. SA, did you get all 4 items I sent?

And also why did they think she was a mannequin if she was as decomposed as previously told to me, there should have been no doubt, and what was this business about them finding a mannequin previously? That sounds really goofy!!!Also, it doesn't state what she was wearing.

 

[shadowangel]

I got all the reports, but couldn't open one. The autopsy report should be fairly in-depth, listing height, weight, any observable physical defects, etc, etc. This whole "undetermined" thing makes NO sense.
I thought the mannequin thing was a little goofy, too. Like you'd just expect to see a mannequin floating down the local canal...Sounds just like the two young men who discovered Boulder Jane Doe back in 1954. Just like.
I don't think she was in the water all that long...The reports are just adding to the mystery at this point. The only resolution is to find some of the folks that were there...If you like, I'll PM you the info on the "B" I found in Barberton.

"TB" and "RB" have different addresses listed. Am I reading the officer correct, E or C Martin?

 

[shadowangel]

I talked to some docs here, they tell me it takes very little water for a person to drown. I would think that if Jane had aspirated any water at all, the ME would have listed her death as drowning rather than "undetermined". If she had not taken in any water, then she was dead before being placed into the canal.

 

[smile22]

have you thought about writing to the govener of your state to get access to her reccords i also read in the other thread that your sister has a copy of the utopsy or something but wont let you have it or something. i know they are hurting as well and want to leave well enugh alone. and if i was in your shoes id want to find out everything. its going to be a hard road but ill search for info myself and prayers are with you in your search

 

[upallnite]

Yes,but the night I started doing this. I was watching cold case files and they had a little girl on there, whose parents admitted to drowning, and they plunged her into freezing cold water. The coronor said it was pyrocardial something...maybe shock? She had no water in her lungs, that's why I'm even wondering at all. I cannot believe I just coincidentally seen that on tv that same night. My fiance says he doesn't believe those parents didn't kill her in some other way first.

 

[shadowangel]

Here is a good article on the forensics of drowning, in simple terms:

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/llb/water.htm

Even in the case of death due to cardiac arrest from freezing water, the damage to the heart can be detected during the medical examination.

 

[Shadow205]

I know, everyone thinks this is odd. I want to contact these guys. Did you notice there are phone numbers on there for them? Doubtful they are current, I wanted to wait until tomorrow to do this because I'd like to speak to them in person if possible and I have to go to work.

I just had a PM from upallnight and here is what she told me....

I just phoned T.B. He said he is actually the one who found Jane. He was running his dog alone along the canal and he seen her face down wedged under a tree. He did think she was a mannequin, and he had found one there before. He said his dog went nuts barking and he got a big stick and pushed on her and then he could tell she was a human. He ran and got R.B. and N.B. phoned the police. He said when the police got there that they moved them back and they turned her over. T.B. said she was very badly decomposed and that her hands were indeed tied in the front in like a praying position. Whew!!!!!!! I don't know what to think. This is really bad. T.B. said if I need anything or need him to make a statement he will. He said he still has nightmares about this. He said him and R.B. have wanted to contact my family, but since they never heard anything they assumed we knew what happened...

Obviously, there are some real problems with this case. I was told that it was nothing more than an accidental drowning, nothing suspicious about the body to indicate it was anything else. Comments on what upallnight's next step should be?

 

[shadowangel]

I tried to tell her to relax for a little bit...SURE!!!! :angel:

I suggested she ask TB to write a statement (which he is willing to do)...A sworn affidavit would be great. Also from RB if willing.
Have TB meet her at the site he found her sister, go through the scene...Photograph everything, create a picture "catalog" of the area.
Continue to try to reach the EMTs that recovered Jane...Being private employees, they should not be bound by any restrictions to tell their story and either coroborate or dispute the statement of TB.
After that, having everything in order, its time to move ahead, I think...Either a local investigative reporter or the state police, I think media is the better place to start though.
Right now, its just important to stick the basics and continue documenting. It would be good to speak to someone who was close to Jane at the time of her death, get a real feel for what was happening.
***right after I posted this, Upallnite PM'd me to say that her sister had just given her the name of someone who knew Jane. ***

 

[mysteriew]

I tried to tell her to relax for a little bit...SURE!!!! :angel:

I suggested she ask TB to write a statement (which he is willing to do)...A sworn affidavit would be great. Also from RB if willing.
Have TB meet her at the site he found her sister, go through the scene...Photograph everything, create a picture "catalog" of the area.
Continue to try to reach the EMTs that recovered Jane...Being private employees, they should not be bound by any restrictions to tell their story and either coroborate or dispute the statement of TB.
After that, having everything in order, its time to move ahead, I think...Either a local investigative reporter or the state police, I think media is the better place to start though.
Right now, its just important to stick the basics and continue documenting. It would be good to speak to someone who was close to Jane at the time of her death, get a real feel for what was happening.

Don't jump ahead too fast. Wait for the autopsy report to come in. After all of the paperwork has been collected, then make an appt with an attorney. Preferably one from out of town. Have the witnesses make a sworn statement at the attorney's office. Once that has been done- the attorney should be able to advise the next step to take.

 

[mysteriew]

Isn't there a couple of attorneys on this board? They should be able to advise the next step to take to get this reopened.

 

[shelsearay]

I'm sending you a PM. My sister and I have worked for more than 5 years on a 30 year old case. While we still don't have all the answers, I can tell you I have learned to work the system. Probably could write an instruction manual. I'll get down to the nitty gritty on the PM.

 

[upallnite]

I spoke to the other brother R.B earlier, he remembers the same as his brother about her hands being bound in front of her in a praying position. He also remembers she was wearing a t-shirt, jeans and coboyboots. No coat. I have also learned today that she was seen as late as January 16th 1982 by several people. I learned that friends of hers came forward and identified the clothes she was wearing as the last they seen her in. I will elaborate greatly on all of this later. I had plans for tonight, but will definately post more later. Oh, I also learned that a jacket was found in canal and identified as hers and as being given to her by someone who's name I am not familiar with. I'll call him J.T. Autopsy reports finding cause of death undetermined. Notes there was no water in lungs. Lungs were expanded. Slight petichial hemmhoraging in sinus. Possible evidence of brain herniation of some sort, ( I'll explain later) and pinkish fluid draining from her (?).