OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

[Betty P]

Thank you, Johnny - much appreciated.

Friendly reminder for future reference - there's a link to those and other helpful info in the Media & Timeline's thread. You can find a link to Media & Timelines on the first page of each thread.

The beginning of each thread also includes a case summary, timeline and other helpful links!

First page:
OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

Media & Timelines Thread

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

Timeline:

OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

Case Summary:

OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

 

[Rutledge203]

I finally got to see it. They want all four Defense teams to have all the info for all four defendants they way it sounds to me. They want to hire a person to go through all the info and evidence for all four defendants and make sure that all four Defense teams has everything that the others do.
If there is evidence for a charge against only one or two of the four, why should the other Defense teams get that evidence? For an example, why would the other three Defense teams need the evidence against JW's charge of sex with a minor, etc.?

This is how I understood it as well.
This really made me angry.
4 terabytes of Discovery Delivered via transfer to hard drives and outlines of.

5000 items or pages I believe is the equivalent mentioned earlier.
It literally took 2 weeks to upload files when they transferred them to defense attorneys.

Besides what they may have found during the latest search (four days) at FWF. (I've heard that they found shell casings, but can't prove it). That's all I have seen reported. Plus whatever may come up due to investigating RN and FW, would complete the Discovery enough to start arguing motions.

They aren't being tried together, so I don't understand why they can defend together with the Prosecution needing to spoon feed them.

I've never followed a court case this much. Meaning pretrials, motions, etc.

Maybe this is normal. Sure can't say these defendants are not getting due process.

Excuse my blast of opinion on top of your post. But I don't understand it. It doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[Rutledge203]

I have never seen anything stating JW paid support regularly. He said in an interview that he helped her financially. I'm sure court ordered support would be more than he was giving her. Did JW have a full time job and regular income after the truck driving stopped? A court ordered support amount may have taken a large amount of what he was making. That could be incentive to try to get custody. Maybe working with that attorney before the murders, he found out he was not likely to get court ordered custody of SW and what it could cost him to pay support if he didn't get custody... That could have been incentive to make sure he got custody and didn't have to pay support. My opinions only...

This is a great point. I never considered child support as an issue with regard to custody. But of course they are connected.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Upon entering the trailer deputies found the body of Dana Manley Rhoden. Then they headed towards the sound of the crying infant. They found nineteen year-old Hanna Rhoden shot to death in bed with her unharmed five day-old daughter, Kylie wiggling next to her. Moments later they found the youngest of the victims, sixteen year-old Chris Rhoden, Jr., a high school freshman who was just issued his driver’s license. Initially there was concern about where Hanna’s two year-old daughter Sophia was, but deputies quickly learned she was staying at a relative’s home.

The Pike County Massacre

 

[Dudly]

This is a great point. I never considered child support as an issue with regard to custody. But of course they are connected.

From what I have seen personally with my son and nephew, Ohio has little sympathy for the father's financial well being when it comes to set support amounts. In my nephew's case, they claimed he was in arrears for years when it was not possible, the support was taken from his pay before he saw it. When one daughter became ineligible for support, they did not reduce his support payment saying his income had increased. After they both were ineligible, the state still was demanding the arrears he owed.
With my son, he was still paying support for a daughter that was living with him for over a year. They refused to give him credit for her living with him. On top of that, she was still claiming that daughter as a dependent for taxes, WIC, and low income housing
even though she lived with her father.
A friend of mine had an employee that was taking home $25/week after mandatory deductions for support.

With no links to post, all this is my opinion only, I guess...

 

[Cool Cats]

Defense in Wagner case motions to have equal access to information

More discussion of the request for a "discovery coordinator" (BTW, if granted there are several people here who should apply for the job ). I agree, the state has given them a good summary/outline of the evidence in the case. If its in a spreadsheet format, that should be plenty of information.

JMO, but sometimes I get the impression at the W hearings that the attorneys don't spend a lot of time working on these cases until a few days before each hearing. They don't seem to be in any hurry to bring the cases to trial. After RN decided to take the plea agreement, they're probably all treading water, so to speak, to see what the other defendants do next.

FW is probably trying to run the show or coordinate the defense strategies for her son and grandsons, but RN's plea really threw a spanner in the works. The discovery coordinator will likely be seen as helpful to a coordinated defense strategy among the 4 Ws. Can't wait to see what happens tomorrow. AW has to realize by now she's been thrown under the bus.

Rita said this in court:

Newcomb told the judge she changed her plea because, "It's not a good Christian thing to lie and I couldn't live with it anymore."

What lie did she tell the Grand Jury? Did she lie and say she signed the documents? How could she do that and then plead not guilty?

Or was the lie that she had no idea who signed the documents, when in fact she knew Angela instigated the whole custody document thing?

Then pleading not guilty means a handwriting expert will find out she did not sign them, which is what happened...Given that, what on earth
did Angela think the outcome would be?

Your quote: "AW has to realize by now she's been thrown under the bus."

Didn't Angela throw herself under the bus?

A convoluted plot making zero sense to me.

 

[Betty P]

Rita said this in court:

Newcomb told the judge she changed her plea because, "It's not a good Christian thing to lie and I couldn't live with it anymore."

What lie did she tell the Grand Jury? Did she lie and say she signed the documents? How could she do that and then plead not guilty?

Then pleading not guilty means a handwriting expert will find out she did not sign them, which is what happened...
What did Angela think the outcome would be?

Your quote: "AW has to realize by now she's been thrown under the bus."

Didn't Angela throw herself under the bus?

Lying, then pleading not guilty happens frequently, from what I've seen. If you follow criminal trials, you'll see it happen routinely.

An attorney friend of mine once said "Never admit to anything that could incriminate you", the point being, in the U.S., you're innocent until proven guilty. Make the state show evidence against you and prove you committed a crime. In the face of overwhelming evidence, terrible guilt and/or a plea bargain, many criminals confess to their crime. Happens both ways. Others choose to plead not guilty and ride it out. It's a personal decision, made with the advice of an attorney.

RN admitted that she lied to the GJ about signing/notarizing one of the custody documents. Her "not guilty" plea was not unusual, especially if she was at risk of getting dragged into a big murder trial. Her decision worked out as well as it could have for her - she was able to plead down to a misdemeanor offense from a felony.

My remark about AW is refers to her mother taking a plea, combined with the fact that FW doesn't seem to be supporting her. ICBW, its my opinion.

ETA: Here's a link to a good post in the Crimes In the News/Media & Timeline Subforum. It explains understanding your Fifth Amendment Rights.

Don't Talk to the Cops Video Series

 

[Cool Cats]

Lying, then pleading not guilty happens frequently, from what I've seen. If you follow criminal trials, you'll see it happen routinely.

An attorney friend of mine once said "Never admit to anything that could incriminate you", the point being, in the U.S., you're innocent until proven guilty. Make the state show evidence against you and prove you committed a crime. In the face of overwhelming evidence, terrible guilt and/or a plea bargain, many criminals confess to their crime. Happens both ways. Others choose to plead not guilty and ride it out. It's a personal decision, made with the advice of an attorney.

RN admitted that she lied to the GJ about signing/notarizing one of the custody documents. Her "not guilty" plea was not unusual, especially if she was at risk of getting dragged into a big murder trial. Her decision worked out as well as it could have for her - she was able to plead down to a misdemeanor offense from a felony.

My remark about AW is refers to her mother taking a plea, combined with the fact that FW doesn't seem to be supporting her. ICBW, its my opinion.

ETA: Here's a link to a good post in the Crimes In the News/Media & Timeline Subforum. It explains understanding your Fifth Amendment Rights.

Don't Talk to the Cops Video Series

Right, people usually do plead not guilty at first when facing multiple felony charges, makes sense. Then they find out about the evidence against them and either go to trial or work out a plea deal.

If Fred keeps not showing up for Angie's hearings, when in fact she has made appearances at the other 3's hearings, then yes it does seem Fred has tossed her under the bus or off the cliff, maybe under a train..lol..

So what you are saying is that the lie Rita told the GJ was that it was her signature on the 3 -- I believe it is -- custody documents. OK, so Angie told her to take the blame but it still makes no sense to me because Angie should have known handwriting experts would uncover the truth.

What did Angie think was going to happen in Rita's trial?
That the prosecution was going to argue Rita is not guilty of forgery, due to her signature being fake, and then the defense was going to argue she is guilty of forgery because she testified under oath that she did sign/notarize them?

Angie's plot couldn't hold H2O even if Rita wanted it to...2 Cents........

 

[evelezrn]

What did she do? This must have been before the hearing...
I always assumed she wore them for privacy because she ends up on camera alot and gets alot of scrutiny.
I wonder if she will--for once--come to Angela's hearing this Wednesday since Jake is also scheduled that day?

Jake 10:00am Angela 1:30pm. If she's there for Jake then just leaves and doesn't come back, well that will say a whole lot about who she blames.
Opinion

CC

Bolded with blue text above.

Re FW's "sunglasses episode"

Watch carefully from very beginning through 2 minutes 32 seconds.
At 17 second's into the video, she was fine without the glasses while chatting with people. Again at 2 min 24 seconds she demonstrates it again. Then it will make a little more sense. JMO of course.

 

[Cool Cats]

CC

Bolded with blue text above.

Re FW's "sunglasses episode"

Watch carefully from very beginning through 2 minutes 32 seconds.
At 17 second's into the video, she was fine without the glasses while chatting with people. Again at 2 min 24 seconds she demonstrates it again. Then it will make a little more sense. JMO of course.

Cool

She must read Websleuths because she is letting us know, according to her, that the sunglasses are for the light bothering her eyes. Robin looked directly into the camera at that time also, and Fred made sure no one blocked their view.

Before they sat down, on close up, Robin looked like she was crying and/or on verge of tears. Fred looked upset when she put her head in her hand. Billy's attorney was out there "reassuring" them.

 

[Betty P]

Right, people usually do plead not guilty at first when facing multiple felony charges, makes sense. Then they find out about the evidence against them and either go to trial or work out a plea deal.

If Fred keeps not showing up for Angie's hearings, when in fact she has made appearances at the other 3's hearings, then yes it does seem Fred has tossed her under the bus or off the cliff, maybe under a train..lol..

So what you are saying is that the lie Rita told the GJ was that it was her signature on the 3 -- I believe it is -- custody documents. OK, so Angie told her to take the blame but it still makes no sense to me because Angie should have known handwriting experts would uncover the truth.

What did Angie think was going to happen in court?
That the prosecution was going to argue Rita is not guilty of forgery, due to her signature being fake, and then the defense was going to argue she is guilty of forgery because she testified that she did sign them?

Angie's plot couldn't hold H2O even if Rita wanted it to.

I don't know exactly what RN told the Grand Jury , but we'll find out eventually. As for thinking they could get by with forgeries on the documents, they're not geniuses. I think when the trials get underway, we'll see they made other mistakes.

 

[JustaboyFromMS]

Ok, so grandmaw is out the way. When is her sentencing? Where are we in the process for the other 4? Any upcoming dates?

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't know exactly what RN told the Grand Jury , but we'll find out eventually. As for thinking they could get by with forgeries on the documents, they're not geniuses. I think when the trials get underway, we'll see they made other mistakes.

Yes...Thankx for your input.

 

[Betty P]

CC

Bolded with blue text above.

Re FW's "sunglasses episode"

Watch carefully from very beginning through 2 minutes 32 seconds.
At 17 second's into the video, she was fine without the glasses while chatting with people. Again at 2 min 24 seconds she demonstrates it again. Then it will make a little more sense. JMO of course.

Ok, I looked at the reflection in her sunglasses. The only lights they reflected were the very ordinary, overhead fluorescent lights of the court room. There don't appear to be any tv lights or special lighting that could be causing her problems.

ETA: Who are the two young women with their backs to the camera? Reporters? Attorneys?

 

[Betty P]

Ok, so grandmaw is out the way. When is her sentencing? Where are we in the process for the other 4? Any upcoming dates?

Two hearings tomorrow: JW at 10 am and AW at 1:30 pm.


Check the links a ways back in the thread for news articles. They'll tell you when RNs next court date occurs. IIRC, its sometime in Jan or Feb.

 

[evelezrn]

Ok, I looked at the reflection in her sunglasses. The only lights they reflected were the very ordinary, overhead fluorescent lights of the court room. There don't appear to be any tv lights or special lighting that could be causing her problems.

ETA: Who are the two young women with their backs to the camera? Reporters? Attorneys?

BBM
I had the same question. They did not look familiar to me. I'd not seen them before.

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't know exactly what RN told the Grand Jury , but we'll find out eventually. As for thinking they could get by with forgeries on the documents, they're not geniuses. I think when the trials get underway, we'll see they made other mistakes.

This article helps verify the lie she told the Grand Jury:

"..Prosecutor Angela Canepa said in Pike County Common Pleas Court that a handwriting expert concluded that Newcomb had not signed the documents herself.

Canepa said that Newcomb admitted to falsely telling a grand jury and investigators that she had signed the documents only because her daughter — Angela Wagner, who is among those charged with the killings — told her to do so.."

So I know Rita was tired of lying but I wonder what other motivations may have been at play to convince Rita to stop lying and come clean?

Could be because the trial was close to starting and she was afraid of the outcome, she was afraid of going to jail or prison.

Could be she feels "safe" from Angie's "anger/vengence" because not only is Angie "cut off" from her right now, but Angie might never come back home to South Webster.

Could be because of the handwriting experts' opinions---that her signature is forged.
Could be her attorney strongly advised her to take a plea deal.
Could be her family strongly advised her to do so, plus, she has grandkids.
Could be she couldn't risk jail time because she needs (now) to care for her mom.
Could be she secretly suspects her daughter is guilty.
Could be a combination of reasons.

And maybe just maybe she was tired of Angela asking her to lie, bossing her around, and almost getting her bond revoked. None of that would give her the warm fuzzys towards her daughter..... Just Opinions.....

Holly Zachariah √ verified √
writer/intern coordinator
The Columbus Dispatch

 

[Betty P]

BBM
I had the same question. They did not look familiar to me. I'd not seen them before.

Later in the hearing, when Judge Deering was greeting all the parties, he mentioned at least one of the young women worked for one of Billy W's attorneys. Possibly the other one, too.

Odd the state has to pay for special consultants to help defense attorneys sort through all the evidence when AC and her team are having to manage all 6 trials.

 

[Betty P]

This article helps verify the lie she told the Grand Jury:

"..Prosecutor Angela Canepa said in Pike County Common Pleas Court that a handwriting expert concluded that Newcomb had not signed the documents herself.

Canepa said that Newcomb admitted to falsely telling a grand jury and investigators that she had signed the documents only because her daughter — Angela Wagner, who is among those charged with the killings — told her to do so.."

So I know Rita was tired of lying but I wonder what other motivations may have been at play to convince Rita to stop lying and come clean?

Could be because the trial was close to starting and she was afraid of the outcome, she was afraid of going to jail or prison.

Could be she feels "safe" from Angie's "anger/vengence" because not only is Angie "cut off" from her right now, but Angie might never come back home to South Webster.

Could be because of the handwriting experts' opinions---that her signature is forged.
Could be her attorney strongly advised her to take a plea deal.
Could be her family strongly advised her to do so, plus, she has grandkids.
Could be she couldn't risk jail time because she needed to care for her mom.
Could be she secretly suspects her daughter is guilty.
Could be a combination of reasons.

And maybe just maybe she was tired of Angela asking her to lie, bossing her around, and almost getting her bond revoked. None of that would give her the warm fuzzys towards her daughter..... Just Opinions.....

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20191...te=ampart&nocache=1&__twitter_impression=true

Like the others, she's probably had time to think and worry since the prosecution announced they had recorded the phone calls w/ AW. JMO and just speculation, but they may have picked up something in those calls that was very incriminating for RN. Enough worry about that and the results of the handwriting analysis probably pushed her enough to give up. They had too much solid evidence that she lied. When they offered her a plea down to a misdemeanor charge, she was probably ready to take it. Hard to do, considering its your child and grandchildren, but it must have seemed to her a hopeless situation.

Kind of also makes me think she wasn't aware of the murders and AW & family's involvement until later. MOO

 

[Loomis124]

Cool

She must read Websleuths because she is letting us know, according to her, that the sunglasses are for the light bothering her eyes. Robin looked directly into the camera at that time also, and Fred made sure no one blocked their view.

Before they sat down, on close up, Robin looked like she was crying and/or on verge of tears. Fred looked upset when she put her head in her hand. Billy's attorney was out there "reassuring" them.

Agree.