OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #54

[snickums]

I think Chris was killed, then Gary was shot and fell over Chris. Had nothing to do with "covering" Chris

 

[snickums]

(B) Other crimes, wrongs or acts. Evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is not admissible to prove the character of a person in order to show action in conformity therewith. It may, however, be admissible for other purposes, such as proof of motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake or accident. In criminal cases, the proponent of evidence to be offered under this rule shall provide reasonable notice in advance of trial, or during trial if the court excuses pretrial notice on good cause shown, of the general nature of any such evidence it intends to introduce at trial.

Begin reading with, "It may however..." IMO the State will use their prior acts to show motive, etc. , as stated above. Look back if needed. The Prosecution has stated this claim at the end of every single Discovery document they have filed. "Crimes, Wrongs, or Other Acts." Period.

And if anyone cares to reply, just where are the answers (from the 4 Defense teams) to the Prosecution's requests for reciprocal Discovery after each of the State's turnovers of Discovery????? There might be One, IIRC! Just like RN's case, nothing submitted in reciprocal Discovery yet. Ha ha what a joke of a joke of 8 defense attorneys, oh, I forgot...who can't read and understand Discovery. Lol All a ploy to milk the State out of every dollar they can suck dry. I hope the reason this March meeting I'd happening is to force them to do their own work if they expect to defend the killers in this massacre. All my opinion based on Discovery facts.

Rule 404 - Character Evidence not Admissible to Prove Conduct; Exceptions; Other Crimes, Ohio R. Evid. 404 | Casetext

I do know that the other brother had a kid and that girl signed the kid over to W. My guess is for $, so that would be one of the prior acts because they tried that with Hanna too.

 

[Loomis124]

I think Chris was killed, then Gary was shot and fell over Chris. Had nothing to do with "covering" Chris

The indictments say CRSR and GR were dragged to the back of the trailer.

 

[Loomis124]

I think Chris was killed, then Gary was shot and fell over Chris. Had nothing to do with "covering" Chris

The indictments say CRSR and GR were dragged to the back of the trailer.

I do know that the other brother had a kid and that girl signed the kid over to W. My guess is for $, so that would be one of the prior acts because they tried that with Hanna too.

Perfect example. Thanks!

 

[Betty P]

Ok I am going to make a post for the very first time, even tho I have followed this case right here on Websleuths even since the very beginning. I guess I was "lurking" in WS language as I have followed it very closely and feel like I know you all! I also feel like I know the Rhoden family and Hannah Gilley and my heart breaks for them and I want to see them get justice. I am so nervous to post though. I don't believe I have to repeat Cool Cats post as this reply or opinion is right below it. I hope am doing this right. IMO, GW4 looks the most upset, the most almost angry, because he has learned that the conversations with the family were taped, reported somehow, doubt it was someone wearing a wire, but don't believe they have said how they actually got the conversations. But IMO, GW4 didn't think he was in quite as deep as the others as he was there doing his part for the family's sake, for his brother's sake and that he really did not think they would get caught. And now he has found out that LE knows he was the most vocal regarding what they should do if they were caught, the revenge upon DeWine, Sheriff Reader, a BCI officer I believe, and anyone else who turned them in. He is aware he is in very deep now, if he wasn't aware before. This is my opinion only. Also even tho I don't believe anyone called them such, I myself would consider them spree killers instead of serial killers. Thanks for letting me "get my feet wet" and give my opinion.

Welcome to Websleuths Bunnylady!

We're happy to have you here and hope you enjoy visiting and discussing cases.

 

[Betty P]

I do know that the other brother had a kid and that girl signed the kid over to W. My guess is for $, so that would be one of the prior acts because they tried that with Hanna too.

Welcome to Websleuths, Snickums!

Hope you enjoy visiting here and discussing important cases!

 

[Betty P]

Humm? Good question. Why throw evidence down your own well?
Since you asked me I have a couple theories:

This is something a person does when they are in a huge hurry and don't have time to hide the evidence.

The Wagners would have had to drive pretty far away to dispose evidence because LE would use metal detectors to search but the Wagners had to get everything done before 6:30 am. It was turkey season and the hunters were legally allowed to start hunting 30 minutes before sunrise and sunrise on April 22nd 2016, was at 6:49am. So hunters could start hunting that day basically around 6:19am.

After the Wagners get home from disposing evidence they find some of their maglite and they panic because they are out of time but can't bury it near their property because a metal detector would pick it up. Being amateurs, not thinking it through, panicking, no sleep, and on the spur of the moment they toss it down the well.

Or a Wagner got lazy.

So weeks go by and a Wagner finds maglite in his barn that fell on the floor or whatever. He's busy, has stuff to do, doesn't feel like using up gas, driving out to the boonies, hiding where he parks, hiking far away from the road, then clearing brush and having to dig a deep hole.

Nah, so much easier to just chuck it down the well, no one needs to know, not even the other Wagners. It's all good - no metal detector can get it now.

Meanwhile, 3 of the Wagners are sitting in jail wondering how in the heck did maglite get down their well?...

https://sunrise-sunset.org/us/cincinnati-oh/2016/4

With all the pre-planning they allegedly did (all the shopping for shoes, surveillance cams, hacking, etc.) it seems odd they didn't properly plan how to dispose of the evidence. They seem to be a little like hoarders, given all the stuff they left behind after taking off to AK. Perhaps they had trouble parting with personal items like weapons, silencer, etc. because those were valued possessions. Maybe they hid them in places where they thought they could later retrieve them.

Dumb.

 

[Dudly]

Thank you for the information Dudly. Silencers seem to be a big part of the Wagner cases (Boondock Saints reference and found in Wagner well) and are mentioned many times in the Wagner indictments.

Yes, as you say in your post, nothing has been released about automatic weapons except automatic weapons are mentioned many times in the Wagner indictments:

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Counts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 = Aggravated Murder

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner
had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said aggravated murder."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #9 = Conspiracy

"...futherance of the conspiracy was committed by the said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner, or a person with whom the said
Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner conspired, including but not limited to the following acts, to wit: making several purchases...and/or parts to build a silencer(s)...building a silencer(s)...

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count 10, 11, 12, 13 = Aggravated Burglary

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor..."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #14 = Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance

"Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner, defendant, on or about the 1st day of January 2016, through the 22nd day of April 2016, did unlawfully and knowingly, aquire, have, carry, or use any dangerous ordnance, to wit: a firearm muffler or suppressor and/or automatic firearm."

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner had a firearm on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance..."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #22 = Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity

" The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner
had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity... "

I really have to wonder if what they are calling an "automatic weapon" means fully automatic weapon. Fully automatic weapon would be a machine gun type weapon. Pull the trigger and it shoots till it is empty or in three shot bursts. What they are referring to, I am sure, is a gun that shoots every time the trigger is pulled. Fully automatic weapons are not generally available to the public and require a special Federal Permit. If any of the Wagners were found in possession of a fully automatic weapon without the permits, they would have gone straight to jail, no passing "GO"...

 

[Dudly]

With all the pre-planning they allegedly did (all the shopping for shoes, surveillance cams, hacking, etc.) it seems odd they didn't properly plan how to dispose of the evidence. They seem to be a little like hoarders, given all the stuff they left behind after taking off to AK. Perhaps they had trouble parting with personal items like weapons, silencer, etc. because those were valued possessions. Maybe they hid them in places where they thought they could later retrieve them.

Dumb.

A TV crime show detective once said, It is a good thing criminals aren't very smart, or at least not as smart as they think they are, or they would never get caught.. Or, words to that effect.

 

[Dudly]

CC
You wrote yesterday about on the 13 of March of 2020 the prosecution and the defense is going to meet at the BCI to listen/watch the recording that the LE has of GW4 threatens to murder high ranking officials and also talks about a prison break if all the Wagners didn’t get arrested, I’m not trying to make anyone mad but someone that is a family member or a really close friend of the family wore a wire around the 4 Wagners, whoever’s has the wire on took their on life into their hands because if Billy or one of the others discovered it, (JMO) the person wearing it would be dead, I think a close family members probably had their phone hacked and didn’t know it, that is how think LE listened On the 4 Wagners.
CC
We might find out by GW4 next court date where the Wire Tap came from,
What’s everyone else opinion on the Wire Tap.

Was is said which recording(s) would be listened to? Or, that any would be listened to? I thought it was said they would discuss which recordings the Prosecution planned to use as evidence. Either way, nothing will be made public because of that meeting unless the trials start immediately after that.
No one at this point knows if it was a person, wiretap, Alexa, Cell phone records or what that caused the info to be known. It was referred to as a "Confidential Reliable Source".

 

[Betty P]

Was is said which recording(s) would be listened to? Or, that any would be listened to? I thought it was said they would discuss which recordings the Prosecution planned to use as evidence. Either way, nothing will be made public because of that meeting unless the trials start immediately after that.
No one at this point knows if it was a person, wiretap, Alexa, Cell phone records or what that caused the info to be known. It was referred to as a "Confidential Reliable Source".

Agree, and we won't know which evidence the defense attorneys will try to keep out of the trial until then. Judge Deering has already ruled many times in pre-trial hearings that defense attorneys will have to argue those evidence motions in court, as is standard practice. Seriously doubt they will be eliminating access to any evidence behind closed doors, before the trials begin.

As for the killer's hubris in dealing (or not) with evidence after the murders, they were accustomed to having things go their way in Pike County. As big fish in the little pond, they thought they would be above the law, as they often were in the past.

 

[Dudly]

Didn't they also stash a partially destroyed copy of Boondock Saints on their own property too? It baffles me too. There are so many better places that come to mind.

Maybe they're controlling enough to want to keep everything on their property?

Desire for a souvenir(s)?

I believe it was retrieved from a burned VCR on the property. My opinion only.

 

[Justus Forall]

Didn't they also stash a partially destroyed copy of Boondock Saints on their own property too? It baffles me too. There are so many better places that come to mind.

Maybe they're controlling enough to want to keep everything on their property?

Desire for a souvenir(s)?

Arrogant and overconfident?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Was is said which recording(s) would be listened to? Or, that any would be listened to? I thought it was said they would discuss which recordings the Prosecution planned to use as evidence. Either way, nothing will be made public because of that meeting unless the trials start immediately after that.
No one at this point knows if it was a person, wiretap, Alexa, Cell phone records or what that caused the info to be known. It was referred to as a "Confidential Reliable Source".

Counsel for each of the parties confirmed to the Court that counsel for the State of Ohio intends to inform counsel for the Defendant concerning certain parts of the recordings of conversations delivered as part of the discovery that the Defendant's attorneys may wish to focus upon; and counsel for each party further confirmed to the Court that they have made arrangements to have a meeting between counsel, outside the presence of the Court, at the offices of BCI in order for counsel for each party to thoroughly review the items of discovery provided by that the State of Ohio.


https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eserv...kYEdmbpzgqDgftDxKGQtzj-cb5xBJuS1E3ns43c7um-bQ

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I believe it was retrieved from a burned VCR on the property. My opinion only.

Take, for instance, some of the latest court filings in the case against the accused, the Wagner family: They reveal that among the items prosecutors have turned over to the defense team in patriarch George "Billy" Wagner's case is a clip from the violent, vigilante-justice movie "Boondock Saints"; a photo of a burned VCR; and an Excel spreadsheet that lists 519 entries of messages about child custody


The Columbus Dispatch

 

[Loomis124]

Counsel for each of the parties confirmed to the Court that counsel for the State of Ohio intends to inform counsel for the Defendant concerning certain parts of the recordings of conversations delivered as part of the discovery that the Defendant's attorneys may wish to focus upon; and counsel for each party further confirmed to the Court that they have made arrangements to have a meeting between counsel, outside the presence of the Court, at the offices of BCI in order for counsel for each party to thoroughly review the items of discovery provided by that the State of Ohio.


https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eserv...kYEdmbpzgqDgftDxKGQtzj-cb5xBJuS1E3ns43c7um-bQ

This makes me think it's more than likely the phone conversations between RN, AW, and JW. JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

This makes me think it's more than likely the phone conversations between RN, AW, and JW. JMO

Loomis
Do you think that AWs brother and BWs sister might be charged later with aiding and abetting, didn’t AC mention during the trial when AW got her communication rights taken away with her family, that RW tried to help AW communicate with BW, JMO

 

[Dudly]

Counsel for each of the parties confirmed to the Court that counsel for the State of Ohio intends to inform counsel for the Defendant concerning certain parts of the recordings of conversations delivered as part of the discovery that the Defendant's attorneys may wish to focus upon; and counsel for each party further confirmed to the Court that they have made arrangements to have a meeting between counsel, outside the presence of the Court, at the offices of BCI in order for counsel for each party to thoroughly review the items of discovery provided by that the State of Ohio.


https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eserv...kYEdmbpzgqDgftDxKGQtzj-cb5xBJuS1E3ns43c7um-bQ

What you posted was: "You wrote yesterday about on the 13 of March of 2020 the prosecution and the defense is going to meet at the BCI to listen/watch the recording that the LE has of GW4 threatens to murder high ranking officials and also talks about a prison break if all the Wagners didn’t get arrested,"

Your own link, nor comment, mentions that video would be watched or recordings listened to at that upcoming meeting.

"Counsel for each of the parties confirmed to the Court that counsel for the State of Ohio intends to inform counsel for the Defendant concerning certain parts of the recordings of conversations delivered as part of the discovery that the Defendant's attorneys may wish to focus upon;"

So why was it mentioned that they woild "listen/watch the recording?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

What you posted was: "You wrote yesterday about on the 13 of March of 2020 the prosecution and the defense is going to meet at the BCI to listen/watch the recording that the LE has of GW4 threatens to murder high ranking officials and also talks about a prison break if all the Wagners didn’t get arrested,"

Your own link, nor comment, mentions that video would be watched or recordings listened to at that upcoming meeting.

"Counsel for each of the parties confirmed to the Court that counsel for the State of Ohio intends to inform counsel for the Defendant concerning certain parts of the recordings of conversations delivered as part of the discovery that the Defendant's attorneys may wish to focus upon;"

So why was it mentioned that they woild "listen/watch the recording?

The reason I wrote that is because unlike you I can’t see what the BCI so I wrote that the attorneys are going to look or listen to what the LE has on evidence, Dudly why do you get so upset when someone has something to write about the Wagners 4? I don’t know what the BCI has do you?

 

[Loomis124]

Loomis
Do you think that AWs brother and BWs sister might be charged later with aiding and abetting, didn’t AC mention during the trial when AW got her communication rights taken away with her family, that RW tried to help AW communicate with BW, JMO

I don't remember that, Johnny. ? Can you please post a link or give more information? TIA