OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #55

[molly1255]

Well, cornfuddle is now my new word! LOL..!

I think the father-in-law discrepancy will be cleared up at the hearing by Canepa, occasionally she has had to correct other things in court for the record.

Charges dropped to one misdemeanor for Rita and charges dropped for Fred are being construed as positive I think because it plays into the lack of evidence to make charges stick maybe..?.... I'm with you...HUH...?

Defense says the prosecution cannot prove that Billy and Chris were not best friends anymore. OK, who is going to testify to that? Who will get on the stand and swear there was no falling out? Billy?

I agree it's cornfuddle - the making out like they still did not get all the Discovery is to make the case look weak.

Not sure what you meant by them not using the spying?

About no one seeing Billy commit murder? As you say, this is pretty normal for planned ahead premeditated murder. Grasping at straws.

Right. How can Bad Billy live with Fred and work for Fred when Fred is not allowed to have any contact with him?

This is ridiculous, there is no chance they will get bond. There must be an ulterior motive for asking for it. Something somewhere is going on. Sometimes I wonder if Billy and son pushed their attorneys into the Bond Motion but then I think the attorneys could easily talk them out of it.

Perplexing! Thank You so much for discussing this!....and for my new word..


Just adding my 2 Cents to yours....

I do have more words where that one came from, and will likely use them as this case moves forward! With respect to the spying - I was being sarcastic. They didn't mention that for the bond request, did they? There is no way to put a spin on the spying. That is in the indictment and it's also in evidence.

JMO, there are some silly things in the request for bond and the way I see it, I think they are trying to get some kind of win. I agree there is no way it's going to happen, but they are giving it a swing because they have nothing to lose, IMO.

JMO, this makes me seriously consider whether BW will end up trying to get a plea deal, and perhaps G4, too, to get the death penalty off the table. I do think it's interesting there's been no bond request for AW, who still wears jail garb in her pre-trial hearings, or for JW.

All JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The same people who spied on them are the ones who murdered them. There was no way the killers could have known who would be where and when without doing surveillance on the victims. They had to make sure that everyone they wanted to kill was in the right place at the right time. Keep in mind Dana worked an unexpected double shift that night. She got a phone call at work that upset her to the point of crying. Kendra was supposed to stay the night with Hannah but her BF got a toothache and she went home instead. Miranda was supposed to stay the night with Hanna G but decided to go home after work. Chelsa R unexpectedly brought over BR. Donald was supposed to stay the night with Kenny but decided to stay with his GF.

How do you think the killers knew just what night to hit the victims? They had to be hacking cell phones, doing surveillance, the whole works to know that Kendra, Miranda and Donald made other plans. They knew that CH wasn't there. They knew BR was. They knew what time Dana got home. No, they had it locked down pretty tight with hacking and camera's and in person surveillance.

I think the only two things that slipped out of their control was Chris fought back and Kenny dropped off Gary that night at Chris'. So Kenny had to go too. I don't think they knew Gary wasn't there. Or maybe they knew he wasn't supposed to be there and so surprised them when he walked in. Maybe earlier Gary made plans to stay with someone else but decided not to and called Kenny to pick him up and take him home. Kenny would have noticed any strange vehicles on the road. In short I think Kenny's was the only unplanned murder.

No links. just a theory of mine.

The only way I could really see the Wagners hearing what was going on at the Rhodens homes would be the house was bugged with listening devices and cameras, how do you think the Wagners hacked the cellphones, I would say the Wagners had some kind of ghost virus on all the computers to where the camera on the computer was watching the Rhodens family and reading all the accounts, it going to be really interesting in the next few months what the Wagners family did do and which one of the Wagners is really good as a hacker, JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The only way I could really see the Wagners hearing what was going on at the Rhodens homes would be the house was bugged with listening devices and cameras, how do you think the Wagners hacked the cellphones, I would say the Wagners had some kind of ghost virus on all the computers to where the camera on the computer was watching the Rhodens family and reading all the accounts, it going to be really interesting in the next few months what the Wagners family did do and which one of the Wagners is really good as a hacker, JMO

Just my opinion but I think Fred or RW might have had a hand in that hacking. You can get any program you want for surveillance if you have the money. Just ask any PI.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Just my opinion but I think Fred or RW might have had a hand in that hacking. You can get any program you want for surveillance if you have the money. Just ask any PI.

The prosecution should have enough evidence to charge FW again but I really think her age is why the prosecution hasn’t used state funds to do it, their letting time convict FW she 76 years old now, JMO

 

[molly1255]

B

BW is on SSI, how can he be a productive worker on FW farm????

I'm not familiar with the technicalities of SSI, so I am not a good one to ask. I do know of someone who receives SSI and who is also a door-dash driver. Perhaps a person who receives this benefit can work as long as earnings remain within a certain threshold?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I'm not familiar with the technicalities of SSI, so I am not a good one to ask. I do know of someone who receives SSI and who is also a door-dash driver. Perhaps a person who receives this benefit can work as long as earnings remain within a certain threshold?

Billy Wagner was on social security at one time I do not know if he was still drawing it at the time of arrests, JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I do have more words where that one came from, and will likely use them as this case moves forward! With respect to the spying - I was being sarcastic. They didn't mention that for the bond request, did they? There is no way to put a spin on the spying. That is in the indictment and it's also in evidence.

JMO, there are some silly things in the request for bond and the way I see it, I think they are trying to get some kind of win. I agree there is no way it's going to happen, but they are giving it a swing because they have nothing to lose, IMO.

JMO, this makes me seriously consider whether BW will end up trying to get a plea deal, and perhaps G4, too, to get the death penalty off the table. I do think it's interesting there's been no bond request for AW, who still wears jail garb in her pre-trial hearings, or for JW.

All JMO

Agree with your points and right, there is no way to spin cyber stalking when digital footprints trace back to a person's specific electronic device.

Billy only has a 7th grade education and thus can't be the mastermind according to one of his attorneys so it wouldn't surprise me if that attorney says that he isn't capable of cyber stalking and managing counter surveillance equipment etc...

Oh, I just thought of one reason the defense could be asking for Bond:

Fishing.

I think they could be fishing for the prosecution's strongest
evidence. The prosecution will have to pick and choose a few major points of evidence, distilling it down to a small reasonable amount for a Motion Hearing. What they choose to disclose could be some of the most important evidence.

Hope this makes sense. Big bass fishing boat ahead....

 

[Dudly]

Billy Wagner was on social security at one time I do not know if he was still drawing it at the time of arrests, JMO

There is Social Security, Disability Social Security, and Supplemental Security Income. I believe GWIII is getting SSI.

Understanding SSI - SSI Eligibility

 

[OhioBlues]

Agree with your points and right, there is no way to spin cyber stalking when digital footprints trace back to a person's specific electronic device.

Billy only has a 7th grade education and thus can't be the mastermind according to one of his attorneys so it wouldn't surprise me if that attorney says that he isn't capable of cyber stalking and managing counter surveillance equipment etc...

Oh, I just thought of one reason the defense could be asking for Bond:

Fishing.

I think they could be fishing for the prosecution's strongest
evidence. The prosecution will have to pick and choose a few major points of evidence, distilling it down to a small reasonable amount for a Motion Hearing. What they choose to disclose could be some of the most important evidence.

Hope this makes sense. Big bass fishing boat ahead....

What is your definition of Cyber Stalking?

 

[molly1255]

Agree with your points and right, there is no way to spin cyber stalking when digital footprints trace back to a person's specific electronic device.

Billy only has a 7th grade education and thus can't be the mastermind according to one of his attorneys so it wouldn't surprise me if that attorney says that he isn't capable of cyber stalking and managing counter surveillance equipment etc...

Oh, I just thought of one reason the defense could be asking for Bond:

Fishing.

I think they could be fishing for the prosecution's strongest
evidence. The prosecution will have to pick and choose a few major points of evidence, distilling it down to a small reasonable amount for a Motion Hearing. What they choose to disclose could be some of the most important evidence.

Hope this makes sense. Big bass fishing boat ahead....

You may be right on the fishing. On the request for bond, they allege a lack of evidence on BW.

 

[Cool Cats]

You may be right on the fishing. On the request for bond, they allege a lack of evidence on BW.

Yes, these unremarkable and generalized statements complaining about,
as you put it, "lack of evidence" show no substance, are too vauge, and prove *zilch* in my opinion:

No physical evidence that links him to any of the crime scenes.

Serious concerns with the quality of the evidence.

Weak evidence.

Disorganized evidence.

Incomplete evidence.

No eye witnesses in evidence.

...YAWN...Zzzz...wake me later.....

 

[Berrybell]

For those of you who were not on here in 2016. This was all hashed, rehashed, and hashed again until that dead horse was about grounded into hamburger meat. We did the road rage, the BBL, the drug cartel, the derby fights, the IJ fight, the threats on FB, Gary's drug connections in KY, JJ, corrupt LE, stolen cars, chicken fights, dog fights, MJ and everything else under the sun. We throwed so much crap at the wall that we had to repaint it several times. Nothing stuck. All roads led back to Jake. Don't want to brag but I believe I was the 1st one on here who said it had to be Jake/and or Jake and family. When it all shook out there was no one else with a viable motive. We argued, discussed and cussed. But it all came back to Jake and co as having the only motive that made sense.

There were no other suspects from day one. Any alternative suspects the defense attorneys and Angie come up with are figments of their imagination. I have been on here four long years now and read every theory from murder-suicide to the Martians did it.

I remember when I first saw it on TV and read about it. I thought someone in this family brought this evil into their family. I considered everyone from Dana having a BF who was POed because she was going back to Chris and Chris having a GF who was POed he went back to Dana. I thought about CR being Poed because Frankie took up with Hanna G. I thought of past BF's of Hanna G who might have been POed. Current and past BF's of Hannah R. Chris JR POing someone off bad enough to want revenge. Home invasion, robbery, Kenny getting POed and killing them all then himself, Gary going crazy on some kind of drug and killing them all then himself.

But it all came back to Hannah R. She was the only one who had a recent breakup. Nothing made any sense but Jake and his abuse of Hannah. It is a proven fact that the most dangerous time for a victim of domestic abuse is the first year they leave their abuser. The murders fell within that first year.

Jake is just another garden variety loser who beat around on his GF until she left him and went home to her family. That made him furious since he had groomed her since she was barely 13 and if he couldn't have her no one could. Problem is he had to get past her family before he could get to her. and that is exactly how it happened, he killed them all to get to her.

JMO[/QUO
BBM
And you made the most chilling and accurate statement I have read IMO, "he killed them all to get to her".

 

[Berrybell]

BBM
Raisenback, you made the most chilling and accurate statement I have read IMO, "he killed them all to get to her".

 

[IType]

B

BW is on SSI, how can he be a productive worker on FW farm????

The same way he always has--his mother pays him under the table so no income to report to Social Security Administration, IMO.

 

[IType]

Billy Wagner was on social security at one time I do not know if he was still drawing it at the time of arrests, JMO

Pretty sure it was mentioned at his arraignment that he was on SSI so was indigent and couldn't afford to pay an attorney for his defense. I think I have the link to MSM article that mentioned it. If I find it, will post--otherwise IMO

 

[IType]

Agree with your points and right, there is no way to spin cyber stalking when digital footprints trace back to a person's specific electronic device.

Billy only has a 7th grade education and thus can't be the mastermind according to one of his attorneys so it wouldn't surprise me if that attorney says that he isn't capable of cyber stalking and managing counter surveillance equipment etc...

Oh, I just thought of one reason the defense could be asking for Bond:

Fishing.

I think they could be fishing for the prosecution's strongest
evidence. The prosecution will have to pick and choose a few major points of evidence, distilling it down to a small reasonable amount for a Motion Hearing. What they choose to disclose could be some of the most important evidence.

Hope this makes sense. Big bass fishing boat ahead....

I have a couple possibilities for the BW bond reduction request. One is that possibly FW is having problems hiring employees to work at her farm. Maybe folks don't want to work for the family of four accused murderers. Running a large farm requires a lot of manual labor. I doubt FW would be of much help labor-wise, and her daughter probably would have a hard time, physically, caring for such a large animal operation all by herself.

My other thought goes back to the infamous revenge conversations--it was mentioned that the W4 should try to escape if arrested and then help the others escape. Is this part of the "escape" plan--FW trying to get BW out of jail so that he can disappear into the night? He can't be convicted if he can't be found. JMO

 

[IType]

I do have more words where that one came from, and will likely use them as this case moves forward! With respect to the spying - I was being sarcastic. They didn't mention that for the bond request, did they? There is no way to put a spin on the spying. That is in the indictment and it's also in evidence.

JMO, there are some silly things in the request for bond and the way I see it, I think they are trying to get some kind of win. I agree there is no way it's going to happen, but they are giving it a swing because they have nothing to lose, IMO.

JMO, this makes me seriously consider whether BW will end up trying to get a plea deal, and perhaps G4, too, to get the death penalty off the table. I do think it's interesting there's been no bond request for AW, who still wears jail garb in her pre-trial hearings, or for JW.

All JMO

As for AW jail clothes, I think maybe she's trying to get sympathy. If her case does go to trial, I think she will try to say she was bullied into the murders by BW and his family. IMO

I, too, find it interesting no bond reduction requests for JW or AW. I personally feel that FW is behind this sudden request for BW and then GW, trying to throw her weight around to get what she wants for her family. If that were the case, maybe JW's attorney isn't letting FW bully him into filing a motion that he knows will never be granted by the judge since this is a capital murder case. Just a thought.

As for AW having no bond reduction request--if my theory of FW trying to bully the prosecution attorneys is correct--I believe FW wouldn't include AW because she will try to blame everything on AW to make BW and her grandsons look better. JMO

I personally don't see BW being the first one to try and to cut a plea deal because his mother wouldn't allow it--she will never admit her son and grandsons committed murder. Now if one of the other three Wagners were to successfully cut a deal first, agreeing to testify against the others, that might bring BW to secondarily make a plea in order to get the DP off the table. All my opinion.

 

[molly1255]

Agree with your points and right, there is no way to spin cyber stalking when digital footprints trace back to a person's specific electronic device.

Billy only has a 7th grade education and thus can't be the mastermind according to one of his attorneys so it wouldn't surprise me if that attorney says that he isn't capable of cyber stalking and managing counter surveillance equipment etc...

Oh, I just thought of one reason the defense could be asking for Bond:

Fishing.

I think they could be fishing for the prosecution's strongest
evidence. The prosecution will have to pick and choose a few major points of evidence, distilling it down to a small reasonable amount for a Motion Hearing. What they choose to disclose could be some of the most important evidence.

Hope this makes sense. Big bass fishing boat ahead....

Just thinking about the 7th grade education. I'm not sure what happened there, but a couple of generations back and more, it was not uncommon for kids, at least in my area, to get full-time jobs after completing the 8th grade to help support their families. Both of my grandfathers fell into this category and they were both very sophisticated in what would have been considered "advanced electronics" in their era. No need to buy a radio, they made their own. No need for a television repairman. They diagnosed and fixed the problem themselves. No need to pay someone to install electrical wiring- they wired their own homes. I'm sure I'm missing a few of their combined electronic skills, but they weren't alone - this was pretty much the norm for many. Unless there is a learning disability involved, people were and are still capable of learning how to do some very complicated things if they are motivated to do so. JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Didn’t One of BW bond requests say mental????

 

[molly1255]

As for AW jail clothes, I think maybe she's trying to get sympathy. If her case does go to trial, I think she will try to say she was bullied into the murders by BW and his family. IMO

I, too, find it interesting no bond reduction requests for JW or AW. I personally feel that FW is behind this sudden request for BW and then GW, trying to throw her weight around to get what she wants for her family. If that were the case, maybe JW's attorney isn't letting FW bully him into filing a motion that he knows will never be granted by the judge since this is a capital murder case. Just a thought.

As for AW having no bond reduction request--if my theory of FW trying to bully the prosecution attorneys is correct--I believe FW wouldn't include AW because she will try to blame everything on AW to make BW and her grandsons look better. JMO

I personally don't see BW being the first one to try and to cut a plea deal because his mother wouldn't allow it--she will never admit her son and grandsons committed murder. Now if one of the other three Wagners were to successfully cut a deal first, agreeing to testify against the others, that might bring BW to secondarily make a plea in order to get the DP off the table. All my opinion.

I think "something" explains the jail garb, and I do lean in your direction - pity play attempt? She appears to be almost fragile in the pre-trial hearings, but there has to be a big contrast between appearance and personality, IMO, and I say this because of the jailhouse phone calls she made. That takes big nerve, IMO, especially when you know your calls are being recorded.

Your theory is very interesting. It's definitely food for thought!