OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #56

[Cool Cats]

She also noted on Twitter or elsewhere that she was told her phone was tapped and/or phone records confiscated as part of the investigation.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/b5970061-96a9-4921-b102-09ffced54757-jpeg.178064/

David Yost Attorney General

Re: Notice of Interception

Chris Graves letter dated March 6th, 2019
telling her that her communication with the Wagners had been intercepted starting June 9th, 2017 for 30 days then another 30 day extension was granted on July 7th, 2017.

So all those times in Alaska that Chris Graves was communicating with the Wagner's over e-mail/phones etc..BCI was monitoring it. This was from
June 9th until August 9th 2017.

They were spotted moving into a rental on June 16th, then on June 21st DeWine drew all that attention to them with the MSM laser focus announcement.

Humm.....I wonder if their rental property was bugged? The timeline fits with the Interception Request. The interception of wire, oral and electronics communication.

 

[sunshineray]

Correction:
Regarding my last post, AW's discovery says "Community Carriage & Leather
Receipts (5pp)" not 5 Receipts.

 

[sunshineray]

More interesting things listed on AW's discovery...under "Interviews by Agents" all interviewing agents are listed with the number of video or audio interviews they did. All except one which also includes, after a semicolon, "(Elizabeth Wagner contacts) (7 audios)". 7 recorded phone calls to LE?

Then there's a "Recovered Two-Way Radio" listed with a "Statements from Deputies (2pp)" and "Lab Results (1pp)".

Statements from deputies, sounds like LE who responded to one of the crime scenes. Sounds like they found a two-way radio that was taken into evidence and lab tested. That all makes me wonder if one of the W's dropped it at a scene?

If this has all been discussed before my apologies.

 

[ColMustard]

In looking through AW's discovery I see an entry for:
Community Carriage & Leather (5 receipts)

When searching that exact name online (even with "Company" or "LLC" after it), not finding much. I dis come across an Antique Automobile Club of America service type blog under page general discussion title of "Amish woodworkers- OH and PA"
where people said they used them to restore "leather and woodwork for carriages, buggies, wagons, and vintage cars". They are/were an Amish outfit listed on this blog as being in Peebles, OH
.
I cannot find that name with an online presence for shopping so I'm thinking it doesn't exist and people need to go to the physical place to do business.

What in the world would 5 separate receipts ( 5 visits?) from an Amish craftsman who restores old carriages, buggies, wagons and vintage cars being doing in AW's discovery?

What service or supplies was brought from this place by the W's? It's a local place in an area of southern Ohio not very populated so autonomy couldn't have really been expected. I kinda stumped here...horse stuff (bridles?) or upholstery leather? Thoughts?

I can post link if it's an acceptable thing to do within TOC?

MOO - Could have been the interior of the Excursion, after the stains were cut out.

 

[sunshineray]

MOO - Could have been the interior of the Excursion, after the stains were cut out.

That's what I was thinking also. That car was sold to someone who brought it to WV right? That's the state listed under the 3 W males latent prints testing. So what did the W's do, rip out parts of the upholstery where blood was and bring it to the Amish workman to re-upholster? Or stain it cleaning the possible blood stains and then had this man removed the old and put in new upholstery? (unbeknownst to him the reason I'm sure. This man seems very kind-hearted and religous in his Amish writings online)

Reminds me of the CT Jennifer Dulos case where the husband had his employee take care of replacing seats and the guy who did it saved the old ones and they were evidence against him.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

In looking through AW's discovery I see an entry for:
Community Carriage & Leather (5 receipts)

When searching that exact name online (even with "Company" or "LLC" after it), not finding much. I dis come across an Antique Automobile Club of America service type blog under page general discussion title of "Amish woodworkers- OH and PA"
where people said they used them to restore "leather and woodwork for carriages, buggies, wagons, and vintage cars". They are/were an Amish outfit listed on this blog as being in Peebles, OH
.
I cannot find that name with an online presence for shopping so I'm thinking it doesn't exist and people need to go to the physical place to do business.

What in the world would 5 separate receipts ( 5 visits?) from an Amish craftsman who restores old carriages, buggies, wagons and vintage cars being doing in AW's discovery?

What service or supplies was brought from this place by the W's? It's a local place in an area of southern Ohio not very populated so autonomy couldn't have really been expected. I kinda stumped here...horse stuff (bridles?) or upholstery leather? Thoughts?

I can post link if it's an acceptable thing to do within TOC?

blood stains in leather car seats? bet the Amish she dealt with will be called as witnesses sans pictures from the press.

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

blood stains in leather car seats? bet the Amish she dealt with will be called as witnesses sans pictures from the press.

jmo

If that's what all that discovery means he could very well be called to testify. Wouldn't that be something. I just don't know why else this business is listed in discovery. The other possible option i mentioned, horse product leather (the crimes maybe involving horses as transport) just seems really too farfetched.

 

[ColMustard]

That's what I was thinking also. That car was sold to someone who brought it to WV right? That's the state listed under the 3 W males latent prints testing. So what did the W's do, rip out parts of the upholstery where blood was and bring it to the Amish workman to re-upholster? Or stain it cleaning the possible blood stains and then had this man removed the old and put in new upholstery? (unbeknownst to him the reason I'm sure. This man seems very kind-hearted and religous in his Amish writings online)

Reminds me of the CT Jennifer Dulos case where the husband had his employee take care of replacing seats and the guy who did it saved the old ones and they were evidence against him.

Think the Excursion was in Kentucky.

 

[sunshineray]

Think the Excursion was in Kentucky.

Then what does the Latent Print Analysis-West Virginia State Patrol on page six of AW's discovery have to do with?

It lists all three W males Latent Print Standards along with West Virginia State Patrol's Forensic Lab Report.

All that is directly below JW's Truck Search Warrant with Evidence Log, 12-page Search Warrant and 95 photos of the Search.

Angela Wagner

 

[Cool Cats]

Then what does the Latent Print Analysis-West Virginia State Patrol on page six of AW's discovery have to do with?

It lists all three W males Latent Print Standards along with West Virginia State Patrol's Forensic Lab Report.

All that is directly below JW's Truck Search Warrant with Evidence Log, 12-page Search Warrant and 95 photos of the Search.

Angela Wagner

...2 Cents...

It has nothing to do with the Excursion, this is all about Jake's truck that was searched 1-17-19. Angie drove the Excursion and sold it, apparently it was her truck and Jake had his own truck. (opinion only) It does not say Excursion in this Discovery, just Jake's truck...I think the Excursion is mention elsewhere in some other Discovery Documents.

Evidently Jake's truck was found in WV so the WV forensic lab did the fingerprint analysis.

It appears that Jake's, Billy's and GW4's latent prints were found in the vehicle and the WV forensics lab ran their standard prints against them.

Standard prints are in a data base and show the prints they take upon your arrest. By this time the Wagner's were in jail and their standard prints had already been uploaded in the database.

All WV had to do was compare the latent prints found in the truck to the standard prints found in the database. A print lifted from a surface is called a latent fringerprint, but because they are not clearly visible their detection may require chemical development.

 

[Betty P]

Latent fingerprints are considered good, accurate evidence.

I'm not sure why anyone would want the murderous Wagners to go free.

Their attorneys would have to be very desperate to argue against evidence from latent fingerprints on their own vehicles.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

...2 Cents...

It has nothing to do with the Excursion, this is all about Jake's truck that was searched 1-17-19. Angie drove the Excursion and sold it, apparently it was her truck and Jake had his own truck. (opinion only) It does not say Excursion in this Discovery, just Jake's truck...I think the Excursion is mention elsewhere in some other Discovery Documents.

Evidently Jake's truck was found in WV so the WV forensic lab did the fingerprint analysis.

It appears that Jake's, Billy's and GW4's latent prints were found in the vehicle and the WV forensics lab ran their standard prints against them.

Standard prints are in a data base and show the prints they take upon your arrest. By this time the Wagner's were in jail and their standard prints had already been uploaded in the database.

All WV had to do was compare the latent prints found in the truck to the standard prints found in the database. A print lifted from a surface is called a latent fringerprint, but because they are not clearly visible their detection may require chemical development.

CC
Did you ever read anywhere about the Wagners selling car parts?????

 

[Betty P]

CC
Did you ever read anywhere about the Wagners selling car parts?????

Yes, why do you ask?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

IMO, West Virginia BCI is checking out some prints they recovered from somewhere, JMO

 

[Betty P]

IMO, West Virginia BCI is checking out some prints they recovered from somewhere, JMO

You mean they did that during the investigation, not now.

I don't think we can draw any detailed conclusions from a list of items in evidence. We'll find out during the trial.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

BP
There is a reason it is was mentioned but I really think the Wagners made money fast, to get Defiance Farm up and running, they had a lot of live stock, miniature beagle dogs, ducks, pigs, goats it takes a lot of money to feed those animals not counting paying a mortgage, insurance, gas, utilities ect. How did they pay all those bills with 2 sons working when ever they wanted to and Angela on food stamps, not counting Billy was to be stating in his old bedroom at mothers house, JMO
The government has looked at the Wagners recorded 4 years now they know how they where getting that money, that’s why where seeing things like latent fingerprints on court paperwork, JMO

 

[Betty P]

BP
There is a reason it is was mentioned but I really think the Wagners made money fast, to get Defiance Farm up and running, they had a lot of live stock, miniature beagle dogs, ducks, pigs, goats it takes a lot of money to feed those animals not counting paying a mortgage, insurance, gas, utilities ect. How did they pay all those bills with 2 sons working when ever they wanted to and Angela on food stamps, not counting Billy was to be stating in his old bedroom at mothers house, JMO
The government has looked at the Wagners recorded 4 years now they know how they where getting that money, that’s why where seeing things like latent fingerprints on court paperwork, JMO

There was a tv news station interview (probably WKRC or WEWS) on Facebook with a neighbor of the Wagners. He talked of how Billy made money going around selling stuff out of the back of his truck - car parts, tools, all kinds of things. The interview was right after they were arrested, when news reporters were interviewing locals to learn more about the Wagners. But the interview was posted on the tv station Facebook page instead of their web site.

They also probably got money from FW, or she gave them access to her Amazon.com account to buy things they needed.

 

[sunshineray]

...2 Cents...

It has nothing to do with the Excursion, this is all about Jake's truck that was searched 1-17-19. Angie drove the Excursion and sold it, apparently it was her truck and Jake had his own truck. (opinion only) It does not say Excursion in this Discovery, just Jake's truck...I think the Excursion is mention elsewhere in some other Discovery Documents.

Evidently Jake's truck was found in WV so the WV forensic lab did the fingerprint analysis.

It appears that Jake's, Billy's and GW4's latent prints were found in the vehicle and the WV forensics lab ran their standard prints against them.

Standard prints are in a data base and show the prints they take upon your arrest. By this time the Wagner's were in jail and their standard prints had already been uploaded in the database.

All WV had to do was compare the latent prints found in the truck to the standard prints found in the database. A print lifted from a surface is called a latent fringerprint, but because they are not clearly visible their detection may require chemical development.

Thanks CoolCats. I'm still trying to figure out...#1: Why a truck listed as "Jake's Truck" would be in WV? #2: If Jake's truck was sold, wouldn't it be listed in discovery with new owner's name? Even if sale was private, if title was signed over and new owner never registered it, it would still have to be someone else's property listed in official court documents and then the chain of possession explained later at trial.

I wonder if it was found in a junk yard or just sitting on someone's property in WV with no identifying transfer paperwork, VIN # gone and the latents were to prove it had been the W's vehicle..

W's arrested in November 2018 and "Jake's" truck is searched in WV in middle of January 2019.

Do you think LE had been looking for this truck since before W's moved to Alaska only to find it after arrests in WV? There must be something evidentiary found inside for it to be listed as discovery.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks CoolCats. I'm still trying to figure out...#1: Why a truck listed as "Jake's Truck" would be in WV? #2: If Jake's truck was sold, wouldn't it be listed in discovery with new owner's name? Even if sale was private, if title was signed over and new owner never registered it, it would still have to be someone else's property listed in official court documents and then the chain of possession explained later at trial.

I wonder if it was found in a junk yard or just sitting on someone's property in WV with no identifying transfer paperwork, VIN # gone and the latents were to prove it had been the W's vehicle..

W's arrested in November 2018 and "Jake's" truck is searched in WV in middle of January 2019.

Do you think LE had been looking for this truck since before W's moved to Alaska only to find it after arrests in WV? There must be something evidentiary found inside for it to be listed as discovery.

Probably just investigators strengthening their case. IF its referring to a truck that JW drove (we don't know that and probably won't until the trials begin) it could be one that appeared on security cam video, etc. It could also contain other evidence from the crimes. That's most likely the reason why JW got rid of it. Just the fact that it is or has evidence of the crime and he took steps to get rid of it after the murders is incriminating.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks CoolCats. I'm still trying to figure out...#1: Why a truck listed as "Jake's Truck" would be in WV? #2: If Jake's truck was sold, wouldn't it be listed in discovery with new owner's name? Even if sale was private, if title was signed over and new owner never registered it, it would still have to be someone else's property listed in official court documents and then the chain of possession explained later at trial.

I wonder if it was found in a junk yard or just sitting on someone's property in WV with no identifying transfer paperwork, VIN # gone and the latents were to prove it had been the W's vehicle..

W's arrested in November 2018 and "Jake's" truck is searched in WV in middle of January 2019.

Do you think LE had been looking for this truck since before W's moved to Alaska only to find it after arrests in WV? There must be something evidentiary found inside for it to be listed as discovery.

From Billy's January 17, 2019 Discovery

Ford Excursion Search (5-18-17):

Photos from search (93)
IR (5 pp)
Consents to search (4 pp)
Inventory (1p)

US 41 Trailers Search (5/12/17) :

Photos from search (188)
Miscellaneous Documents (802 pp)
IR from SA Todd Further (3 pp)
IR from SA Ed Hunter (2 pp)
Evidence Log/Inventory for white enclosed trailer (1 pp)
Evidence Log/Inventory for Black Ram 2500 (1 pp)
Evidence Log/Inventory for black/gooseneck trailer (1 pp)
Evidence Log/Inventory for Gray Dodge Ram (1 pp)
Evidence Log/Inventory for black semi-trailer (3 pp)

Wagner Trailer Search (4/15/18) :

Photos from search (26 photos)
Inventory (1 p)

Angela's March 20, 2019 Supplemental Discovery

Jake's Truck Search Warrant (1-17-2019):

Evidence Log (3 pp)
Search Warrant (12 pp)
Photos from Search (95)St

Latent Print Analysis
Standards for Billy, Jake and GW4

Comparing Latent prints found on Jake's truck to the Standard prints of Jake, Billy and GW4. Standard prints would have been taken upon their arrests and put into a national database.

Thanks CoolCats. I'm still trying to figure out...#1: Why a truck listed as "Jake's Truck" would be in WV? #2: If Jake's truck was sold, wouldn't it be listed in discovery with new owner's name? Even if sale was private, if title was signed over and new owner never registered it, it would still have to be someone else's property listed in official court documents and then the chain of possession explained later at trial.

I wonder if it was found in a junk yard or just sitting on someone's property in WV with no identifying transfer paperwork, VIN # gone and the latents were to prove it had been the W's vehicle..

W's arrested in November 2018 and "Jake's" truck is searched in WV in middle of January 2019.

Do you think LE had been looking for this truck since before W's moved to Alaska only to find it after arrests in WV? There must be something evidentiary found inside for it to be listed as discovery.

Someone bought the Excursion and so LE had to get a Consent to Search Form, had to get the new owner's consent to search it. But with Jake's truck instead of getting a Consent to Search Form they had to have a judge sign off on an actual Search Warrant. This is why I think that Jake still owned his truck.

The other Wagner vehicles were searched before they were arrested so why was Jake's truck searched after? Because they didn't find it until then.

Some time before he was arrested his truck was taken out of Ohio.
When Jake got arrested there has to be a reason his truck was in WV rather than being parked at his home. If it had been parked at his home LE would have searched it that month, November 2018, not January 2019.
I think they were looking for it then found it. Maybe Jake didn't want LE to know about it.

Just my take on it.....