OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #56

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I'm thinking they brought it up because they could use it as a reason to justify the custody battle between JW and Hanna R. They probably didn't want LE to focus on the custody fight as the motive for the murders. Remember, Leonard M said that police had been called a couple weeks before the murders over a fight and they behaved badly towards the victims. So, Pike County LE already knew there was a custody battle going on.
Wasn't it AW and/or JW who first mentioned publicly that JW and HR had drawn up an agreement that all were happy with? Then their lawyer mentioned it again saying it all was done amicably (not by him) with no fighting, but that the agreement had never been filed before HR's death.

I'm sure, because of the multiple lie detectors they gave to BM, right off the bat LE wasn't really taking what the M family had to say very seriously. AJMO
 
The indictments allege a sophisticated plot.

The four started conspiring in January 2016, court records allege. In the following months they bought “specific shoes from Walmart,” as well as the materials to build one or more “brass catchers” and silencers, ammunition, a magazine clip, and a “bug” detector.

“They obviously went to great lengths in this case,” said Dan Baker, a retired homicide detective from the Dayton police department, after reviewing the indictments.

He said a brass catcher is commonly a mesh bag that hooks onto the side of a rifle such as an AR-15 and catches spent cartridges.

“These killers, if used, wanted to not leave any spent cartridges,” Baker said. “Even though the bullets are recovered, prints and DNA are more likely found on the cartridges due to hand loading. So, they did not want to leave the cartridges.”
Pike County investigation: 8 deaths and multiple arrests were tied to one key factor — child custody
 
The shoes are more of a mystery, he said. They could have been a pair of cheap shoes used once and thrown away after the crime.

The indictments also say the killers closely monitored the victims, their habits and sleeping routines, sleeping locations, social media accounts, layout of their homes and surveillance devices, and pets on the property.

“It has always been suspicious to me and other investigators about the ability of the killers to enter without disruptive detection by the occupants, thus eliminating a confrontation,” Baker said. “It smacked of significant familiarity with the locations, habits and coordination needed to get in and out.”

If the Wagners were frequent visitors to the Rhoden homes, that would also diminish the significance of trace fingerprints or DNA evidence at the scene, Baker said.

In addition to capital murder, the four members of the Wagner family are each accused of forging a set of custody documents 19 days before the murders. The documents are not on record in Pike County Juvenile Court and prosecutors have revealed little else about them.

Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader said the accused were meticulous in their planning, but made mistakes.

“They did this quickly, coldly, calmly and very carefully. But not carefully enough,” he said. “They left traces, they left a trail. The parts to build a silencer, the forged documents, the cameras, cellphones, all that they tampered with.

“And the lies, all the lies they told us.”


https://www.daytondailynews.com/new...ner-pat-flanagan-dies/RKAiwIjbaGg6faBxYh08yL/
 
The four started conspiring in January 2016, court records allege. In the following months they bought “specific shoes from Walmart,” as well as the materials to build one or more “brass catchers” and silencers, ammunition, a magazine clip, and a “bug” detector.

“They obviously went to great lengths in this case,” said Dan Baker, a retired homicide detective from the Dayton police department, after reviewing the indictments.

He said a brass catcher is commonly a mesh bag that hooks onto the side of a rifle such as an AR-15 and catches spent cartridges.

“These killers, if used, wanted to not leave any spent cartridges,” Baker said. “Even though the bullets are recovered, prints and DNA are more likely found on the cartridges due to hand loading. So, they did not want to leave the cartridges
Pike County investigation: 8 deaths and multiple arrests were tied to one key factor — child custody
 
BBM

Humm...Very interesting...The Wagner's inserted themselves into the investigation:

Wagner family Attorney Clark after laser focus announcement:

"...I believe the real answers to the murders lay with drug lords who police have failed to locate.
The Wagners had supplied police with invaluable information to help the investigation.
Why have the authorities not followed up on the leads that the Wagners wanted to give? Is it because the authorities carelessly waited 4-5 months to get back to Billy Wagner?..."

"Leads" means suspects. What else could it mean? And their attorney points to drug lords as suspects.
LE apparently was blowing off the Wagners, pegging them as liars after all those false leads/suspects.

I think they hid the notion that Jake wanted full custody if that's what you mean.

Angela:
"They were only trying to finalize in writing the visitation they already had in place."

Jake:
"The visitation was working fine, I didn't want that (full custody) I was only suppose to spend time with her and give her a nice childhood."
**cough**

...2 Cents...
BBM

Humm...Very interesting...The Wagner's inserted themselves into the investigation:

Wagner family Attorney Clark after laser focus announcement:

"...I believe the real answers to the murders lay with drug lords who police have failed to locate.
The Wagners had supplied police with invaluable information to help the investigation.
Why have the authorities not followed up on the leads that the Wagners wanted to give? Is it because the authorities carelessly waited 4-5 months to get back to Billy Wagner?..."

"Leads" means suspects. What else could it mean? And their attorney points to drug lords as suspects.
LE apparently was blowing off the Wagners, pegging them as liars after all those false leads/suspects.

I think they hid the notion that Jake wanted full custody if that's what you mean.

Angela:
"They were only trying to finalize in writing the visitation they already had in place."

Jake:
"The visitation was working fine, I didn't want that (full custody) I was only suppose to spend time with her and give her a nice childhood."
**cough**

...2 Cents...

Leads don’t necessarily mean names of people. It could mean telling them to be looking at demo derby drivers, a motorcycle gang, Mexican Cartels, etc...
 
My thoughts are LE likely talked to the W's very early on because of the custody dispute. LE was looking at anyone and everyone who may have had a dispute with any of the R's. It's hard to get inside the minds of murderers but I imagine the W's likely came off as very sincere and very helpful. They didn't want LE to figure out the motive for the murders was custody.

I go back to my homicide detective relative and the things that he talked about. I am absolutely positive that anyone who showed their face twice to him to provide information about a murder case would have been viewed with suspicion by him, especially if that person or persons were known to have had a relationship and then a dispute with the victim or victims and that dispute was "won" by murder. It was not a secret to LE there had been a custody dispute and that JW quickly swooped in to get custody of SW after the murders.

Not following up on leads the Wag's wanted to provide, waiting 4-5 months to get back to BW, who apparently wanted to talk to LE badly to give them information? Drug lords! Hmmmmm. Betcha their insides were churning as they waited and waited no one from LE called.

I still question whether there really was a grow op. LM was absolutely blown away when he heard that and his reaction was genuine. He didn't know anything about it. LM still referred to CR Sr. as his son-in-law, even though DR and CR were divorced. LM was on the R properties, likely on a regular basis, and I think if something big was going on, he would have noticed it and his reaction to the news of a grow op would have different than what he expressed.

We're going to have to wait until the trials to find out what kind of games LE played with the W's in order to solve the case and how long it took to collect enough evidence for a successful prosecution, and also to see what kind of games the W's tried to play with LE.

I agree - leads = suspects.

All JMO

LM was asked on video who killed the family and he mentioned road rage and custody. So LE knew from that first week about the custody dispute.

So when Jake and Angela said there was no custody dispute that was probably one of the first lies they told, it directly contradicts family testimony and I expect some family will take the stand at trial about the custody dispute.

The Wagners fit your detective's description of suspicious criminals:

1.) Inserting themselves into an investigation more than once.
2.) They know the victims.
3.) Had a dispute with the victims.
4.) The dispute was "won" by the murders.

Games LE played with them? A very big one, something rarely done, the laser focus announcement. See, without the announcement they would have been able to fly under the radar in AK.

Jake said they came to get away from death threats and so S wouldn't hear it and it was in her best interest etc...But then he said "it followed us here."

Yah it followed them....No accident...DeWine wanted to disrupt their stay in Kenai, not let them fly under the radar. Maybe they wired their Kenai house and wanted to get them talking amongst themselves?

What a mess of publicity DeWine created for them!

They were stalked by photographers and had their photos taken - Walmart, church, yard with toys - and splashed all over -
their activities published including Jake's speeding ticket, Billy's ticket for not having a life jacket in a boat, fishing licence, thrift store shopping, fish fry in their yard, Billy motorcycling alone on country roads, reporters asking questions coming up to the house...

If this wasn't a long game played between the Wagner's and DeWine then I don't know what is. Because of the laser focus announcement every Dick Tom and Harry were calling the Anchorage Police Department and Alaska State Troopers.

"...The news of DeWine's press has filled the airwaves on the Kenai Peninsula and been the topic of some cafe and workplace conversations in the last week...."

Alaska State Troopers have asked that Alaskans with information about the investigation call Ohio investigators at (855) 224-6446, rather than troopers.

The Anchorage Police Department says it is not taking calls about the Ohio homicide investigation. It says the department has been inundated with 911 calls but that "APD is not involved in the investigation."

Conklin said. "I just struck up a conversation with them saying 'hi welcome to the neighborhood' and just a few hours later, he said he was shocked when he logged into Facebook and saw media reports that his new neighbors were a focus in the ongoing investigation of eight members of the Rhoden family who were all shot to death in Pike County in April 2016.

Conklin said he called Ohio authorities as well as Alaska state troopers to tell them the Wagners had just moved in. To his knowledge, police have not visited the home.

...2 Cents...
 
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CC
Your are correct in all that you have stated in this post, you did a really good job, Do you think that Billy was giving information to LE about his associates instead of Chris Sr being some kind of bad person that he was made out to be, If you go back and watch the old news reporters interviews everyone they ask about the Rhodens being corrupted, no one never knew anything about the Rhodens had marijuana growing/dealing, Remember what pastor Phil said when he was asked the question about if the Rhodens dealt marijuana, He said they didn’t have new cars or nice homes, Pastor Phil said the Rhodens where hard working family, BUT guess who had new trucks, new 4 Wheelers new guns just anything they wanted, Tell ME how a man on SSI with his wife that doesn’t work and on food stamps , 2 sons that doesn’t have full time jobs, that haves so much, JMO Billy Wagner was turning all the local bad people in that he new that was into no good to save his family from going to jail, JMO

I just thought of a sneaky reason for the laser focus!

The Wagner property is searched and the Wagner's flee and LE knows the Wagner's are now on high alert. If they didn't feel like suspects before they do now. Well what if they disappear and LE can't find them? Remember they discussed escaping from jail? Well, if your escaping from jail you need a place to hide out, right?

So I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that DeWine simply did the laser focus to make it really difficult for them to escape and hide out.

Why put out photos?

So people can identify them and notice them and it would be next to impossible for them to change identity and disappear with a little "help" financially from a rich relative.

As for Billy turning in his own business associates I think he'd turn in anyone to keep the eye of the law away from his cowardly tail. We know he gave up Chris Sr's
business associates but we don't know if he was simply asked for the info or if he was playing LE, bringing up the names as suspects/leads.

How did he even know the business associates? With all his toys he was possibly playing 2 hands. Hands under the table - err - getting paid under the table by Chris Sr. and Mommy Dearest. ______OPINION 2 CENTS______
 
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I just thought of a sneaky reason for the laser focus!

The Wagner property is searched and the Wagner's flee and LE knows the Wagner's are now on high alert. If they didn't feel like suspects before they do now. Well what if they disappear and LE can't find them? Remember they discussed escaping from jail? Well, if your escaping from jail you need a place to hideout, right?

So I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that DeWine simply did the laser focus to make it really difficult for them to escape and hide out.

Why put out photos?

So people can identify them and notice them and it would be next to impossible for them to change identity and disappear with a little "help" financially from a rich relative.

As for Billy turning in his own business associates I think he'd turn in anyone to keep the eye of the law away from his cowardly tail. We know he gave up Chris Sr's
business associates but we don't know if he was simply asked for the info or if he was playing LE, bringing up the names as suspects/leads.

How did he even know the business associates? With all his toys he was possibly playing 2 hands. Hands under the table - err - getting paid under the table by Chris Sr. and Mommy Dearest. ______OPINION 2 CENTS______
Just thinking out loud here.

If the W4 were trying to put the murders blame on the "drug cartels", the cartels in the area could not have been very happy with the LE attention that ensued. As I recall there were many drug busts in the area within the next year or two. It was never confirmed the arrests were directly related to the murders.

In April 2017, just as it emerged the W4 were the implied main suspects in the R/G murders, the W4 packed up, went into hiding, then moved up to AK (sometime between May and June 2017).

Could it be because the W4 were afraid the drug cartels were mad and seeking deadly revenge on them for implying the cartels were responsible for the R/G murders??

JMO, MOO, etc.
 
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I just thought of a sneaky reason for the laser focus!

The Wagner property is searched and the Wagner's flee and LE knows the Wagner's are now on high alert. If they didn't feel like suspects before they do now. Well what if they disappear and LE can't find them? Remember they discussed escaping from jail? Well, if your escaping from jail you need a place to hide out, right?

So I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that DeWine simply did the laser focus to make it really difficult for them to escape and hide out.

Why put out photos?

So people can identify them and notice them and it would be next to impossible for them to change identity and disappear with a little "help" financially from a rich relative.

As for Billy turning in his own business associates I think he'd turn in anyone to keep the eye of the law away from his cowardly tail. We know he gave up Chris Sr's
business associates but we don't know if he was simply asked for the info or if he was playing LE, bringing up the names as suspects/leads.

How did he even know the business associates? With all his toys he was possibly playing 2 hands. Hands under the table - err - getting paid under the table by Chris Sr. and Mommy Dearest. ______OPINION 2 CENTS______

Means, motive and opportunity...only the Wagners had all three -- IN MY OPINION.
 
LM was asked on video who killed the family and he mentioned road rage and custody. So LE knew from that first week about the custody dispute.

So when Jake and Angela said there was no custody dispute that was probably one of the first lies they told, it directly contradicts family testimony and I expect some family will take the stand at trial about the custody dispute.

The Wagners fit your detective's description of suspicious criminals:

1.) Inserting themselves into an investigation more than once.
2.) They know the victims.
3.) Had a dispute with the victims.
4.) The dispute was "won" by the murders.

Games LE played with them? A very big one, something rarely done, the laser focus announcement. See, without the announcement they would have been able to fly under the radar in AK.

Jake said they came to get away from death threats and so S wouldn't hear it and it was in her best interest etc...But then he said "it followed us here."

Yah it followed them....No accident...DeWine wanted to disrupt their stay in Kenai, not let them fly under the radar. Maybe they wired their Kenai house and wanted to get them talking amongst themselves?

What a mess of publicity DeWine created for them!

They were stalked by photographers and had their photos taken - Walmart, church, yard with toys - and splashed all over -
their activities published including Jake's speeding ticket, Billy's ticket for not having a life jacket in a boat, fishing licence, thrift store shopping, fish fry in their yard, Billy motorcycling alone on country roads, reporters asking questions coming up to the house...

If this wasn't a long game played between the Wagner's and DeWine then I don't know what is. Because of the laser focus announcement every Dick Tom and Harry were calling the Anchorage Police Department and Alaska State Troopers.

"...The news of DeWine's press has filled the airwaves on the Kenai Peninsula and been the topic of some cafe and workplace conversations in the last week...."

Alaska State Troopers have asked that Alaskans with information about the investigation call Ohio investigators at (855) 224-6446, rather than troopers.

The Anchorage Police Department says it is not taking calls about the Ohio homicide investigation. It says the department has been inundated with 911 calls but that "APD is not involved in the investigation."

Conklin said. "I just struck up a conversation with them saying 'hi welcome to the neighborhood' and just a few hours later, he said he was shocked when he logged into Facebook and saw media reports that his new neighbors were a focus in the ongoing investigation of eight members of the Rhoden family who were all shot to death in Pike County in April 2016.

Conklin said he called Ohio authorities as well as Alaska state troopers to tell them the Wagners had just moved in. To his knowledge, police have not visited the home.

...2 Cents...

You nailed it in terms of the games LE played with the W's! DeWine made sure they had no peace in Alaska and he made sure the whole country knew exactly who they were and that the laser focus was on them for one of the most hideous mass murders in the history of our country. The Wags also had to be aware that LE was building a case against them and I'm sure there had to be this constant niggling feeling "what did they find, or what did we forget to do to cover our tracks"?

It will be interesting to learn what other tactics were taken by LE to "unsettle" the Wags before DeWine called them out. I've recently watched a few of the old pressers, and I kind of get the feeling the pressers were intended more for the Wags than they were for the public.

All JMO
 
BP
In the older post was there discussion about Wagners might have been in Some kind of militant survivalist group in o

BCI investigators are trained in not to get tunnel vision, meaning that the LE investigation was looking everywhere and that they was looking at everyone and listening, The Wagners didn’t have anyone fooled, LE was on to the Wagners lies earlier than we know they let the Wagners have enough time to convict themselves, JMO

Johnny, kinda off topic from this post, but as far as the shoes listed in AW's Discovery, you can Google all of them and see them and their costs.

Angela Wagner
 
Johnny, kinda off topic from this post, but as far as the shoes listed in AW's Discovery, you can Google all of them and see them and their costs.

Angela Wagner
The shoes wasn’t about price, the retired detective made the comment about throw away shoes after a murder, I think that the Wagners bought the boots from Walmart to match the Manleys shoes, so the blame would point away from them, don’t get me wrong I buy my boots at Walmart sometimes.
The Retired Detective commented on AR15 using Brass Catcher, it would almost be impossible to attach a brass catcher to a pistol, the killers probably used AR15 on the Rhodens and Hanna Gilley the night of the murders, I just wonder if Gary was shot with Big Chris gun after they killed Chris? I know now why George Wagner iv was So nervous about the DNA results ( if his DNA was found at the Rhodens or not) because they left shell casings????
 
Wasn't it AW and/or JW who first mentioned publicly that JW and HR had drawn up an agreement that all were happy with? Then their lawyer mentioned it again saying it all was done amicably (not by him) with no fighting, but that the agreement had never been filed before HR's death.

I'm sure, because of the multiple lie detectors they gave to BM, right off the bat LE wasn't really taking what the M family had to say very seriously. AJMO
There are quite a number of attorneys in this case. Which attorney are you referring to that drew up a custody agreement?

As of July 2017, attorney John Kearson Clark was the legal spokesman for the W4. In his interview with the Daily Mail, he was the one that publicly espoused the innocence of the W4 after they moved to AK.

Pictured, people in laser focus of multiple murder hunt | Daily Mail Online

From RN's case, it appeared an attorney named Bruce Dailey was really the one generating the legal papers.

How this fits in, I have no idea.

Thoughts....
 
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There are quite a number of attorneys in this case. Which attorney are you referring to that drew up a custody agreement?

As of July 2017, attorney John Kearson Clark was the legal spokesman for the W4. In his interview with the Daily Mail, he was the one that publicly espoused the innocence of the W4 after they moved to AK.

Pictured, people in laser focus of multiple murder hunt | Daily Mail Online

From RN's case, it appeared an attorney named Bruce Dailey was really the one generating the legal papers.

How this fits in, I have no idea.

Thoughts....



This is all JMO.

Bruce Dailey talked to the W4 ONLY about custody. He is from Texas so he may have mentioned or even printed out the Texas Custody papers.

I believe that Ohio has standardized forms for custody, paternity etc and the Texas papers are against Ohio law.

If he recommended that the W's use a Texas form for custody of SW (when her mother was still alive) then I hope he is in serious trouble.

It doesn't seem like the transaction was completed on Dailey's end because his office didn't notarize them.

JMO, it appears that he has probably held the answers to who murdered this family since the beginning.
 
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