OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #74

[Cool Cats]

@RAISINISBACK I am copy/pasting a couple of your statements from last thread here!
What the actual frick did Angie want with all those grandkids to take care of? If I had been her I would have been on a fast plane to Costa Rica as soon as those boys mentioned it.

I think for Angela it was all about control. She didn't have a life outside of her kids. IMO, she built a life around her husband and boys. Her husband was up to no good and then got the boys into that same life. She just assisted and supported it all. I know we've discussed here the relationship between Hannah and Jake and how young Hannah was. Angela knew this too. I have sons and no way I'd allow my over age sons, underage girlfriend to move in. She wanted the baby because I think she wanted a girl, she wanted to control things. For her there was no life outside her kids/grandkids. You had a life you were living other than raising your son so once he was grown, you had other interests and things to focus on. When someone has nothing else, sometimes that is good and positive. Many grandmothers love helping care for grandchild while parents work because the world is a crazy place and it's hard to trust strangers these days to care for your children. I know many grandparents that happily care for grandchildren during the day, but are also just as happy to send them on their way home at night. There is a wide range of normal when it comes to these relationships and we all navigate that when it comes and what we are comfortable with and what we personally can do. Angela Wanger was not normal. Her motive was just control. What she says goes and it seems from outside looking in, her sons just did what she said and anyone that opposed her got hell.

This is really the heart of this case. Most of us here are "normal" and me saying that is including a very wide range of "normal". Plenty of different personalities and views make up a large spectrum of "normal" behaviors. That is what makes the world so unique and generally a great place. We (general we) can't fully grasp they why and how because we just don't think like these people. We want to use our "normal" logic to try to figure out the why and how, but it just isn't going to ever make sense. We are not this controlling, we can't imagine ever trying to forge custody documents, or hiding our spouse up in a room and not letting them speak to their parents, trying to have grandkids call us mom, or any of these others ludicris things Angela did. We probably don't have a family unit that we operate like a cult. We don't vote on family matters like murdering an entire family.

I think this was just a perfect storm unfortunately. I am not defending Jake or George, but growing up in this environment with Angela controlling everything, it does change a person. I am sure the ability to get them to all agree to do this started with how they were raised. Over time as decisions were made to operate as a family unit, I am sure loyalty starts to come in, not going against the group, being guilted over smaller decisions, then this plan comes up and over the course of a few months, they planned it and then when it came to it, they all participated.

I think money issues were a very big thing with Angela Wagner. With the boys and their families living with her and Angie mostly taking care of the kids and sharing bank accounts, this gave Angie financial security. The grandkids calling her mom would make them even closer to her and maybe more likely to be there for her and help her financially in her old age etc...

I will bet you dollars to doughnuts that Angie knew that eventually her son's wives would want their own places and bank accounts. Then what?

Billy was living at FWF and for all we know went back there after AK. We don't know if he was there helping her financially or had a retirement plan for her. We don't know if Angie was even in Fred's will.

So I think one clue to Angie's behavior was financial. Her "Boys" took care of her and she took care of them by babysitting their children, the more the merrier.

What kind of retirement would Angie have on her own? She just sold some animals here and there and even needed her "Boys" to help with that.

I think one piece to Angie's strange and odd personality and lifestyle had to do with financial circumstances. I do believe it was more than just financial but on Bethel Hill Rd she seemed very financially dependent on Fred/Billy (she worked for Fred and Billy got a small amount of disability and food stamps) and then on Peterson Rd she seemed very financially dependent on her farm and her "boys" helping with the farm, and needed their bank accounts and the grandchildren would have very likely gotton some type of State aid, some type of financial assistance.

I just think that Angie sized up her financial situation and knew she needed help from her "boys."

So there could be alot of reasons why Angie is why she is, but one consideration to consider is money money money. And the more valuable she was to taking care of her grand kids made her more valuable to her own sons taking care of her.

Wives get in the way. Wives don't want to live 30 years taking care of their mother in law, living with her, sharing bank accounts with her.

Wives would take care of and be the mothers to her grandkids and have their own bank accounts and their own homes and mortgages and car bills and food and utilities to pay. There would be no money for Angie.

If Angie had this big career with benefits and retirement, or had her own disability and food stamps I have never heard of it.

Am I the only one on here who thinks Angie had a financial motive to keep her boys living with her? To keep taking care of their children? To run off their wives? Even to plan murder?

I also think she was very jealous of Dana. For many reasons. Including Dana and Chris talked about getting back together, Hanna and 2 grandchildren living with her, Dana's independent job, Chris buying her a house, all her large family support, having lots of grandkids and kids living close by, etc........

Angie also evidently had no problem whatsoever in Dana being killed. Angie is a total @#$%&

 

[IType]

I also think AW wanting her grandchildren was for financial gain, as well as her son's financially supporting her.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

@RAISINISBACK I am copy/pasting a couple of your statements from last thread here!
What the actual frick did Angie want with all those grandkids to take care of? If I had been her I would have been on a fast plane to Costa Rica as soon as those boys mentioned it.

I think for Angela it was all about control. She didn't have a life outside of her kids. IMO, she built a life around her husband and boys. Her husband was up to no good and then got the boys into that same life. She just assisted and supported it all. I know we've discussed here the relationship between Hannah and Jake and how young Hannah was. Angela knew this too. I have sons and no way I'd allow my over age sons, underage girlfriend to move in. She wanted the baby because I think she wanted a girl, she wanted to control things. For her there was no life outside her kids/grandkids. You had a life you were living other than raising your son so once he was grown, you had other interests and things to focus on. When someone has nothing else, sometimes that is good and positive. Many grandmothers love helping care for grandchild while parents work because the world is a crazy place and it's hard to trust strangers these days to care for your children. I know many grandparents that happily care for grandchildren during the day, but are also just as happy to send them on their way home at night. There is a wide range of normal when it comes to these relationships and we all navigate that when it comes and what we are comfortable with and what we personally can do. Angela Wanger was not normal. Her motive was just control. What she says goes and it seems from outside looking in, her sons just did what she said and anyone that opposed her got hell.

This is really the heart of this case. Most of us here are "normal" and me saying that is including a very wide range of "normal". Plenty of different personalities and views make up a large spectrum of "normal" behaviors. That is what makes the world so unique and generally a great place. We (general we) can't fully grasp they why and how because we just don't think like these people. We want to use our "normal" logic to try to figure out the why and how, but it just isn't going to ever make sense. We are not this controlling, we can't imagine ever trying to forge custody documents, or hiding our spouse up in a room and not letting them speak to their parents, trying to have grandkids call us mom, or any of these others ludicris things Angela did. We probably don't have a family unit that we operate like a cult. We don't vote on family matters like murdering an entire family.

I think this was just a perfect storm unfortunately. I am not defending Jake or George, but growing up in this environment with Angela controlling everything, it does change a person. I am sure the ability to get them to all agree to do this started with how they were raised. Over time as decisions were made to operate as a family unit, I am sure loyalty starts to come in, not going against the group, being guilted over smaller decisions, then this plan comes up and over the course of a few months, they planned it and then when it came to it, they all participated.

BBM

What you say makes a lot of sense. But I think some things to point out is:

None of us on here lived with this family. That is why I am eagerly awaiting the testimony of the ex wives.

You are right that this family does not seem normal.

But in many ways it does. Angie jumping to her sons defense in an argument with their wife. Many mothers do this. Many parents home school their kids. Many parents allow their single children to live with them in the home, considering them children until they are married. Indeed many parents allow their married kids and wives and GK's to live with them if they don't have a home. All that is pretty normal in today's world.

But I have to point out that we have not heard any testimony from any one who actually testified to any of what we have heard. Up to now it is just a lot of rumors and gossip. I want to know what the ex's says about the family dynamics.

On the other hand. we have heard, but as yet has not been entered into court testimony that George and T., his wife, got into an argument in which Angie jumped to George's defense, threatened his wife with a gun causing her to run for her life. But we have not heard that George threatened her with a gun or that she was afraid of him and we know for a fact that George did not go kill his ex wife and her whole family. So where does this leave us as far as George is concerned? I have struggled for many long years on here trying to find a valid reason George why would risk his own child to get custody of his brothers for him. Maybe it will all be revealed in time.

You are right that many grandparents babysit for their GK's while the parents work. But not that many nowadays since most GP's work well into their 70's. Most parents send them to daycare and school.

My DIL never worked on a job. She stayed home and took care of her kids. My son and her tried to teach the kids moral values but when they graduated high school, off they went to college and after they got out were expected to buy their own home even before they got married. Indeed my oldest GS bought his home at 18 before college. My DIL still has 2 at home and in school. My son's children are his and my DIL's responsibility.

My GDIL's both work, only one has children that are in daycare and school. My son and DIL have kept their GK's a couple of times when they were too sick to go to daycare. Other than that my GS and his wife are expected to care for the children they have as those children are their responsibility.

You had a life you were living other than raising your son so once he was grown, you had other interests and things to focus on

Maybe it is just me. My parents had 9 children, only 2 of them are younger than me. I never lived with my family after I was an adult. My mother died when I was 14 and my father when I was 17. Both sets of grandparents were already dead. I lived with my older sister until I graduated high school and off to college I went. That is not to say I was not well loved. I was supported, given advice if I asked for it and even money if I needed it. That is not to say our family was not close because we were very close, even to this day and very involved with each other. We attended all tribal events that included every member of the tribe including my extended family. But I was expected to live my own life apart from my siblings. And we never babysat for each others kids. My parents were the same way with my older siblings who had children before they died.

Maybe my family is the one who is not normal. I don't know.

JMO

 

[Myland]

IMO no

Jmo I hope not cause there has to be some evidence in cr truck since Jake said they drove it jmo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I did find them, thanks. I snagged them and will try to post. They seem to be between Angenette Levy... her notes??.. and @chasingpaper89. I hope these are approved.

So much of this does not make sense.

Frankie and Chris SR told her to stop associating with the W's but yet Chris Sr allowed his underage, minor daughter to live with them????? Frankie doesn't tell his dad maybe my sister is in danger, make her come home to live??????

CR tells Chris SR Hannah called and said Jake threatened to cut her legs off and Chris Sr says "Thank you for letting me know"?????? He doesn't go get her which he legally can because she is a minor and make her live at home with him or Dana, he doesn't forbid her to see or talk to Jake again which he legally can do???????

Hannah gets mat at CR for telling Chris SR what Jake said??????

HMMMMMM

Once again this is all hearsay since CR did not hear jake say it or see it. And once again she did not even mention George.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

@RAISINISBACK When we look at all their behaviors as a whole, it isn't normal. Homeschooling is normal, adult children living at home is normal, grandkids even living with grandparents is normal. But the reasons why is what makes it questionable. If they are all living at home with their wives and kids and grandma wants to be called mom, grandma has passwords for accounts, says who can come around and who can't, who can talk to who, etc. We have daughter in law running for her life leaving her child behind. There is a bigger picture here that is not normal.

My point with all that is this motive of having custody of a grandchild/child seems wild to most of us because this isn't something we could ever consider. Their family dynamic was just very different and in my opinion, not normal. It is not healthy for the grandparents to be controlling the kids and grandkids and all living together and voting on things. It's one thing if a family is on hard times and living there because they have to, but to have a mother that wants control, it does point to why/how this was a motive, when most of us who have a normal life (again normal is a wide range of things, but something normal in a healthy for all involved way) can't comprehend how this is the motive, but it appears that it is.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

In the previous thread, someone mentioned that AW couldn't testify to anything that happened at any of the murder scenes because it would be hearsay since she wasn't there. I don't believe that's entirely accurate.

Since it's GW4's trial, she couldn't testify as to anything BW and JW told her that GW4 did at the crime scenes--that would be hearsay. However, if GW4 directly told AW from his own lips something that he did, it wouldn't be hearsay. Example, if GW4 directly said to AW, "I tried to fire the first shot but I couldn't see over the oil filter suppressor." I'm pretty sure that's not hearsay since AW is stating something that GW4 said directly to her about his actions during the crimes. JMO

As for there being no physical evidence GW4 was at any of the crime scenes yet, I think it is coming. I think AW can testify about several things regarding the shoe prints that will confirm which Athletic Works shoe prints are GW4's even though she wasn't there, thus proving GW4 was in fact present during the murders. She can verify in her testimony, not using hearsay:

What shoes she bought for JW
What shoes she bought for GW4
Whether she bought any footwear for BW
Whether JW and GW4 were wearing those shoes when they left the Peterson Road house on the way to the murder scenes
What shoes BW was wearing when he left to go to the murder scenes
What BW's normal shoe size is and whether BW's feet would fit into either pair of the Athletic Works tennis shoes she bought
What shoes those three had on when they returned home and whether she saw the "murder shoes" burned

In addition, JW can also testify as to which shoes GW4 wore while at the murder scenes

I really think JW and AW will hammer home the validity of the shoe print evidence for GW4, but time will tell.

All JMO

Not according to Jake she can't. AC said in opening statement that Jake said they dressed in the murder clothes and shoes in the barn after they left the house and burned everything they wore on the way home and put on clean clothes.

Believe me I have listened to that opening statement about 5 times. It feels like it is imprinted on my brain.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Patience Grasshopper.

I have faith in the jury. I have faith in the prosecutors. Thankfully I have no faith in the defense lawyers. They best they have had so far is - objection, objection. Though slowly, the evidence is nicely unfolding.

After all of the evidence has been shown, IMO the linchpin will be laying out the Conspiracy charge, #22.

I do believe justice is coming!

JMO

I hope so. I waited a long time to see all 4 W's go down hard.

 

[sunshineray]

The article said he was a Rhoden relative. Definitely not Kenny and Chris Sr's dad. The dad was Clarence Rhoden who passed away long before 2016.

But thanks for bringing this up. Interesting to hear the 911 call again. I remember when this happened.

Was he GR's brother? Or his cousin? GR's father's name was Kenneth

 

[sunshineray]

Not according to Jake she can't. AC said in opening statement that Jake said they dressed in the murder clothes and shoes in the barn after they left the house and burned everything they wore on the way home and put on clean clothes.

Believe me I have listened to that opening statement about 5 times. It feels like it is imprinted on my brain.

JMO

I'm sure AW has got to be on all those hours of recorded conversations. Time will tell if the prosecution uses them.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have a question and maybe someone knows, but has all of the blood and prints evidence been presented to jury?

I think so yes. But I could be wrong. The prosecution might give us some evidence on George yet. But my hopes are fading.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I'd like to think that the prosecution will be able to place GW4 @the crime scenes and perhaps planning of the crimes beyond a reasonable doubt. Right now, the ground work is being laid. IMO

I'm curious (and too lazy) to look it up but does anyone know if one or more of the 22 charges include GW4's threat against DeWine, BCI agent and a former Pike County sheriff?

What to Know About the 2016 Pike County Massacre as George Wagner IV's Trial Begins in Ohio

Opening statements are set to begin in the trial of George Wagner, IV in the murders of eight members of the Rhoden and Gilley families more than six years after their deaths.

lawandcrime.com

"During George Wagner, IV’s arraignment, prosecutors said he had been recorded on wiretaps talking abot carrying out acts of violence against DeWine, lead BCI case agent Ryan Scheiderer and former Pike Co. Sheriff Charlie Reader if the family were arrested."

No. George's threats which were also about anyone going against them, were not listed as a specific charge in his 22 count indictment. Sheriff Reader said he took precautions to keep himself safe when the threats were made known to him.

These threats were made before the Wagners were arrested so I assume all those people threatened took extra safety precautions. George said he wanted to smash Scheiderer's face in.

The Wagners were talking amongst themselves but had they actually gone out threatening people to their faces, then I believe they would have been charged.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes, I recall that! He was terrified! IIRC, it was investigated and found to not be a threat. Those murders traumatized so many people for a very long time.

There's another interview out there with Geneva Rhoden, not many months after the murders where she speaks of being terrified at night. She has nightmares and wakes up, then can't get back to sleep because she was afraid someone was going to break in and kill her, too. Very sad.

Seeing the crime scene photos during this trial probably traumatizes them all over again.

After the first photos of Kenny were shown, the camera panned to Miss Geneva who was openly sobbing while her daughter held her. She has not been back in court since. I feel like her family told her seeing all that devastation in the crime scene photos was too much for her and is making her stay home and watch it online like we are so as to not be subjected to all those horrible crime scene photos of her family.

God Bless Miss Geneva. I pray AC pulls off a conviction on George so she can have justice.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Thank you! I was confused and remembered it was a father. So this Kenneth Rhoden would be a brother to Clearance Rhoden (who was Kenneth and Chris Sr's dad).

GR's dad was Kenneth but the 911 caller was his other son , also named Kenneth

 

[Piffcat]

what angela canepa needs to do is frame this evidence correctly. that starts with explaining to the jury something like this-

4 family members worked in close cooperation in order to accomplish the goal of murdering 8 family members in one night. the murder plan is intricate, specific and coldly calculated. it could not be accomplished alone, and for this reason the 4 family members worked in unison so the murders would be possible. all 4 family members had the solitary goal of eliminating anyone who could threaten the success of the 8 murders. this goal of custody was desired by all family members not just jake. aquiring full custody while strongarming the biological mothers out of the childrens life in order for angela to retain sole role as mother. angela, jake, illy and george previously committed felonies (threats of violence and pulling weapons)so g4 wife would give up full custody. they used attorneys and their access to funds to dishonestly and illegally remove a mother from g4s son.
the wagner crime family tried these initial tactics when jakes daughters became a target. however they did not work on hanna because she had strong family support and the funds to fight the wagners. just like g4 sons mother, hanna had done nothing wrong and was a great parent. jake violently controlled her as long as he could. when she removed herself from the abusive situation and refused to budge, the 4 wagners set the goal to kill her and anyone else who could stop this custody goal. each wagner had a part to play in the beginiing planning stages, the killing stages, and the cover up stages. g4s tasks were
purchasing the "murder truck" which had no tie to the wagners. george and jake modified this murder truck so that g4 and jake could be at crsr without crsr knowing. george bought a nightscope and a mask to prepare for the night time murders. he bought a 40 caliber glock which was also used in the murders. before leaving for the murders, all 4 wagners agreed to kill everyone at each household.
during the murders jake and george were hidden under a truck while billy distracted crsr. george or jake fired a shot from the sks rifle which broke crsr arm disabled him at which point billy shot gary and crsr. g4 and billy dragged the bodies to a back room so they wouldnt be found right away. g4 stepped in blood and left a footprint at crsr.george helped drive one of the trucks on the trips to other murder scenes. he stood guard while jake murdered 5 more people-including 2 nursing mothers a 16 year old, a father of 2 and a grandmother. g4 was there to make sure none of them survived.
after the murders g4 worked with his family to throw the investigation off. he warned family members to stay away from places where leo showed up. he spoke loudly about revenge and busting out of jail if they were arrested. he was essentially the hype man for the wagners.

there is 0 lack of evidence

 

[RAISINISBACK]

As someone mentioned earlier, Jake and Angie will be able to present solid, first person witness testimony to GW's plans and activities that night. Angie can testify to the fact that George was wearing those shoes that night, did so deliberately and according to plan. Jake will testify that he wore his and saw George wear his. No reasonable doubt there. Same for weapons GW took with him. We'll also hear the wiretap recordings of GW talking about the murders that night. GW4, in his own words. Very incriminating. Just a few things.

Right now, the state hasn't yet reached the point where the Wagners pack up and head for AK, where many of the recordings took place. We'll also soon hear some testimony from GW4's ex about his violent tendencies.

I love you @Betty P . You always seem to cheer me up. I hope you are right.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

what angela canepa needs to do is frame this evidence correctly. that starts with explaining to the jury something like this-

4 family members worked in close cooperation in order to accomplish the goal of murdering 8 family members in one night. the murder plan is intricate, specific and coldly calculated. it could not be accomplished alone, and for this reason the 4 family members worked in unison so the murders would be possible. all 4 family members had the solitary goal of eliminating anyone who could threaten the success of the 8 murders. this goal of custody was desired by all family members not just jake. aquiring full custody while strongarming the biological mothers out of the childrens life in order for angela to retain sole role as mother. angela, jake, illy and george previously committed felonies (threats of violence and pulling weapons)so g4 wife would give up full custody. they used attorneys and their access to funds to dishonestly and illegally remove a mother from g4s son.
the wagner crime family tried these initial tactics when jakes daughters became a target. however they did not work on hanna because she had strong family support and the funds to fight the wagners. just like g4 sons mother, hanna had done nothing wrong and was a great parent. jake violently controlled her as long as he could. when she removed herself from the abusive situation and refused to budge, the 4 wagners set the goal to kill her and anyone else who could stop this custody goal. each wagner had a part to play in the beginiing planning stages, the killing stages, and the cover up stages. g4s tasks were
purchasing the "murder truck" which had no tie to the wagners. george and jake modified this murder truck so that g4 and jake could be at crsr without crsr knowing. george bought a nightscope and a mask to prepare for the night time murders. he bought a 40 caliber glock which was also used in the murders. before leaving for the murders, all 4 wagners agreed to kill everyone at each household.
during the murders jake and george were hidden under a truck while billy distracted crsr. george or jake fired a shot from the sks rifle which broke crsr arm disabled him at which point billy shot gary and crsr. g4 and billy dragged the bodies to a back room so they wouldnt be found right away. g4 stepped in blood and left a footprint at crsr.george helped drive one of the trucks on the trips to other murder scenes. he stood guard while jake murdered 5 more people-including 2 nursing mothers a 16 year old, a father of 2 and a grandmother. g4 was there to make sure none of them survived.
after the murders g4 worked with his family to throw the investigation off. he warned family members to stay away from places where leo showed up. he spoke loudly about revenge and busting out of jail if they were arrested. he was essentially the hype man for the wagners.

there is 0 lack of evidence

All of that, IMO, is closing statement bound. They will hear it all laid out just like that...once it's all on the record and no more witnesses, prosecution or defense, are called.

 

[Myland]

After the first photos of Kenny were shown, the camera panned to Miss Geneva who was openly sobbing while her daughter held her. She has not been back in court since. I feel like her family told her seeing all that devastation in the crime scene photos was too much for her and is making her stay home and watch it online like we are so as to not be subjected to all those horrible crime scene photos of her family.

God Bless Miss Geneva. I pray AC pulls off a conviction on George so she can have justice.

JMO

Jmo I read somewhere they have a room downstairs of courthouse for her to view trial due to her difficulties of the stairs. She is pitiful, it’s too much for one mother and grandmother. I believe she has enormous support from family, but nothing would really help with that pain. Jmo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think money issues were a very big thing with Angela Wagner. With the boys and their families living with her and Angie mostly taking care of the kids and sharing bank accounts, this gave Angie financial security. The grandkids calling her mom would make them even closer to her and maybe more likely to be there for her and help her financially in her old age etc...

I will bet you dollars to doughnuts that Angie knew that eventually her son's wives would want their own places and bank accounts. Then what?

Billy was living at FWF and for all we know went back there after AK. We don't know if he was there helping her financially or had a retirement plan for her. We don't know if Angie was even in Fred's will.

So I think one clue to Angie's behavior was financial. Her "Boys" took care of her and she took care of them by babysitting their children, the more the merrier.

What kind of retirement would Angie have on her own? She just sold some animals here and there and even needed her "Boys" to help with that.

I think one piece to Angie's strange and odd personality and lifestyle had to do with financial circumstances. I do believe it was more than just financial but on Bethel Hill Rd she seemed very financially dependent on Fred/Billy (she worked for Fred and Billy got a small amount of disability and food stamps) and then on Peterson Rd she seemed very financially dependent on her farm and her "boys" helping with the farm, and needed their bank accounts and the grandchildren would have very likely gotton some type of State aid, some type of financial assistance.

I just think that Angie sized up her financial situation and knew she needed help from her "boys."

So there could be alot of reasons why Angie is why she is, but one consideration to consider is money money money. And the more valuable she was to taking care of her grand kids made her more valuable to her own sons taking care of her.

Wives get in the way. Wives don't want to live 30 years taking care of their mother in law, living with her, sharing bank accounts with her.

Wives would take care of and be the mothers to her grandkids and have their own bank accounts and their own homes and mortgages and car bills and food and utilities to pay. There would be no money for Angie.

If Angie had this big career with benefits and retirement, or had her own disability and food stamps I have never heard of it.

Am I the only one on here who thinks Angie had a financial motive to keep her boys living with her? To keep taking care of their children? To run off their wives? Even to plan murder?

I also think she was very jealous of Dana. For many reasons. Including Dana and Chris talked about getting back together, Hanna and 2 grandchildren living with her, Dana's independent job, Chris buying her a house, all her large family support, having lots of grandkids and kids living close by, etc........

Angie also evidently had no problem whatsoever in Dana being killed. Angie is a total @#$%&

They always say follow the money trail.

On the other hand, there are many colleges she could have attended virtually free of charge with grants and low interest loans. Got herself a career which paid very well.

But then she could have just got a job like Dana did.

One thing that is weighing on me in all this testimony is what they are saying about Jake not letting Hannah leave the house. During the time Hannah was with jake and even when she lived with the W's Hannah finished high school. Hannah had a job. Hannah was at Chris Sr's side in the hospital. Hannah visited family and friends. Hannah had a car.

Like I said, all this emotional testimony about Jakes abuse is damaging the states case against George. Do I think Jake was abusive? Violently so. But what does that have to do with George?

The prosecution is stomping all over their own case and covering any real evidence they have against George up with the truck load of red herrings of emotional testimony about Jake abusing Hannah.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I'd like to think that the prosecution will be able to place GW4 @the crime scenes and perhaps planning of the crimes beyond a reasonable doubt. Right now, the ground work is being laid. IMO

I'm curious (and too lazy) to look it up but does anyone know if one or more of the 22 charges include GW4's threat against DeWine, BCI agent and a former Pike County sheriff?

What to Know About the 2016 Pike County Massacre as George Wagner IV's Trial Begins in Ohio

Opening statements are set to begin in the trial of George Wagner, IV in the murders of eight members of the Rhoden and Gilley families more than six years after their deaths.

lawandcrime.com

"During George Wagner, IV’s arraignment, prosecutors said he had been recorded on wiretaps talking abot carrying out acts of violence against DeWine, lead BCI case agent Ryan Scheiderer and former Pike Co. Sheriff Charlie Reader if the family were arrested."

Aren't those threats included in the "other bad acts" list?