OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #74

[Dudly]

Since you mentioned taking notes, I wonder how big the note books are that the jurors get? IIRC, at the beginning of last week at the latest, the judge said that they gave some of the jurors a second notebook and more would be available to the jurors if they wanted them. It sounds like the jurors are taking alot of notes. ETA-when I think of notebooks, I think of the notebooks with lines that kids use for school (so alot of lines and pages.)

I thought they would be the yellow legal pads you see often…

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Raisnback makes a truthful point, it is vary hard to know which way a jury will vote, I hope with this jury coming from Pike county Ohio knows how the Wagners bent the law for their own gain also Billy and Angela raised those two sons to be Outlaws, JMO

 

[Chelly]

Any ideas on whether Jake and Angela will testify in upcoming week?

 

[rsd1200]

This may have already been posted. It's from @WLWT (Twitter). GW3, GW4, and JW, attending Gary's funeral in Ky. Is it me, or do both brothers appear to have darker hair? I have a FB photo, of the brothers, on the Peterson Rd. farm, somewhere in the "cloud", and both appear to have darker hair, but FB photos aren't allowed on WS, iirc. I hope we hear more about GW4, as the trial comes to a close.

 

[Myland]

This may have already been posted. It's from @WLWT (Twitter). GW3, GW4, and JW, attending Gary's funeral in Ky. Is it me, or do both brothers appear to have darker hair? I have a FB photo, of the brothers, on the Peterson Rd. farm, somewhere in the "cloud", and both appear to have darker hair, but FB photos aren't allowed on WS, iirc. I hope we hear more about GW4, as the trial comes to a close.

View attachment 370390

Jmo I had seen this photo earlier and thought maybe Billy had been in a fight but then I seen a photo of Billy in court with sores on his face in the same spot so I am questioning my original thought of him being in a physical fight from this picture.

 

[rsd1200]

What is the penalty for knowing after the fact about a murder and not reporting it?

According to the Ohio code, there is none, if reporting it would incriminate a family member. I may have read it wrong, but Ohio is one of the few states who even has a law about reporting knowledge of a criminal act.

Section 2921.22 | Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury.

 

[rsd1200]

Any ideas on whether Jake and Angela will testify in upcoming week?

I think they will follow through with their plea deal, but I hope the plea does not allow them to opt out. Maybe their egos won't allow them to do so...

 

[gizmobtj]

GW4 is charged with multiple counts and those counts need foundation and to be explained. Realistically for GW4 to get a fair trial it has to happen this way otherwise the jury would not have much to go on. I try to put myself in the juror's seat. I agree RB that not much has come out about GW4 but if the trial focused just on GW4 from the beginning and had no background info I would wonder. I think the way this is going chronologically day by day, scene by scene. victim by victim is the only way to do it They tell a story with all of the participants and locations. We just have to be patient. I think it is about to get interesting!

I am with you. So far the trial has been about laying the foundation for the reason for the killing, sliding in points that will corraborate Jake's stated testimony and preempting defense arugments (such as, how did the footprint get into the house -- i.e. it was raining, etc.). It's about "tightening the kill chain" and encirclement. If George just went along with the dumb ideas of his family (more so than the active others), it seems as if it's a good strategy -- i.e. the only plausible explanation based on pattern of life and evidence is that he wasn't home per AW and he was there per JW

 

[FonescaFan]

I actually think Jake was the driving force, not Angie. I think Jake was Angie's favorite and when Hannah left him he was trying any thing he could to get her back. He had groomed her for years, since she was barely 13 and he just could not let her go. When it was obvious she was not going to put his name on the birth certificate, not coming back to him, indeed was moving in with another man he went batshyte crazy. Being Mama's boy he went to Angie and she started nagging Billy to do something about it. AC even said that Angie was nagging, nagging, nagging Billy.

I have said from day one this is Jake's show all the way and this trial is nothing but Jake's show all the way.

Otherwise George's ex wife and her whole family would be dead too.

I am wondering if the thought ever crossed Hannah's mind that Jake was a pedophile who groomed her from a young age and that is why she dug her heels in and wouldn't allow him to take SW or KR. Just a thought.
JMO

Interesting theory. IMO Jake did whatever AW told him to do. IMO he had no real sense of self, no personal accomplishments, no independent thoughts or goals for his life. He lived in a fantasy world of movies and video games, and shared the limited (warped) world-view and religion of his insular family. I believe he wanted approval so badly that he did what his family told him to do re: his life, girlfriends, children, everything. And so when AW’s custody plans for S failed, he eagerly went along with the murder plot. And his lack of self esteem, fantasy mindset, and desire to please was why he easily killed 5 people that night. Jail is probably the first time he‘s been on his own, and has had to maybe think for himself. This is why he was the first to take a plea— he wanted the approval of his new authority figures-- his defense attorney, and it’s why he’ll stick to his proffer on the stand. JMOO. Also, in no way do I feel sorry for him or am trying to minimize his actions. In this day and age he had every opportunity to learn about life outside of his home, to learn right from wrong, and to leave when he turned 18. I’m anxious to hear his testimony and I pray it results in a conviction for GWIV.

 

[Chelly]

I think they will follow through with their plea deal, but I hope the plea does not allow them to opt out. Maybe their egos won't allow them to do so...

I have no doubt Jake and Angela will follow through with their plea deal. But wondering if prosecution will call them to the witness stand next week? Or, will prosecution continue to call other witnesses next week? If Jake and Angela are the ones who say George is complicit in the murders, isn't it about time for the jury to hear their testimony?

 

[gizmobtj]

In the previous thread, someone mentioned that AW couldn't testify to anything that happened at any of the murder scenes because it would be hearsay since she wasn't there. I don't believe that's entirely accurate.

Since it's GW4's trial, she couldn't testify as to anything BW and JW told her that GW4 did at the crime scenes--that would be hearsay. However, if GW4 directly told AW from his own lips something that he did, it wouldn't be hearsay. Example, if GW4 directly said to AW, "I tried to fire the first shot but I couldn't see over the oil filter suppressor." I'm pretty sure that's not hearsay since AW is stating something that GW4 said directly to her about his actions during the crimes. JMO

As for there being no physical evidence GW4 was at any of the crime scenes yet, I think it is coming. I think AW can testify about several things regarding the shoe prints that will confirm which Athletic Works shoe prints are GW4's even though she wasn't there, thus proving GW4 was in fact present during the murders. She can verify in her testimony, not using hearsay:

What shoes she bought for JW
What shoes she bought for GW4
Whether she bought any footwear for BW
Whether JW and GW4 were wearing those shoes when they left the Peterson Road house on the way to the murder scenes
What shoes BW was wearing when he left to go to the murder scenes
What BW's normal shoe size is and whether BW's feet would fit into either pair of the Athletic Works tennis shoes she bought
What shoes those three had on when they returned home and whether she saw the "murder shoes" burned

In addition, JW can also testify as to which shoes GW4 wore while at the murder scenes

I really think JW and AW will hammer home the validity of the shoe print evidence for GW4, but time will tell.

All JMO

I think it could go even further. If it's a "statement against interest" of it exposes the person testifying to liability (i.e. conspiracy or other charges) and the person is unavailable (i.e. won't testify), it is an exception to the hearsay rule, according to Ohio R. Evid. 804, which can be found at Rule 804 - Hearsay Exceptions; Declarant Unavailable, Ohio R. Evid. 804 | Casetext Search + Citator

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[gizmobtj]

I think I will pass, since it sounds like a call between Chelsa and Hannah in which HR told CR something Jake said. In other words, hearsay.

JMO

Eh. The fact thay HR said it is not hearsay. If you were arguing that JW said it, it would be

 

[gizmobtj]

BBM

You come across like the jury won't believe a word of what Jake and Angela testify to under oath.

I wouldn't, not without some solid evidence to back up what they say. I have seen them both lie too many times in front of cameras and reporters. Do you really think Nash and Parker have not seen those same interviews that we have, that catches both of them in lies? Or Nash and Parker haven't read what the investigators put in their reports about, as Charlie Reader so succulently put it, "And the lies. All the lies they told." Do you think Nash and Parker were deaf in that courtroom during the motion hearing where AC said Jake told several different stories and his proffer is not consistent with all the evidence that BCI has?

In my opinion Nash and Parker are going to tear both Jake and Angie a new one. Every single one of those lies they have told is going to be thrown back in their face in front of that jury. Bet on it.

Almost everything you outlined was prefixed with Jake said, Angie said. All they did was give an outline of what they say happened that night. It is going to take solid evidence to back up what Jake and Angie said before they get a conviction. As the old saying goes "talk is cheap, it takes money to buy whiskey."

Also the prosecution said they have both circumstantial evidence and actual evidence against George.

Then hopefully sometime soon we get to see the actual evidence.

Let me make this clear. I think George is guilty as sin. I have thought that for 6 years now. But I also have a bad feeling that AC is tanking her own case with these testimonies that Jake abused Hannah. That has nothing to do with George. She is dumping a boat load of red herrings all over her case. Those are MY thoughts and MY opinion. I am not asking anyone else to share them.

Give the prosecution time to prove it's case against George before you have him acquitted of 22 felonies.

Well hopefully he won't get acquitted. But with each passing day I become less sure he will be found guilty unless AC gets off her duff and presents some hard evidence to the jury. And stops bringing in all the witnesses to testify against Jake. Because while it may be very satisfying for the family to face George in court it is going to leave the jury asking "where's the evidence against this defendant who's trial we are supposed to be at?"

Better keep in mind that Jake and Angie are not on trial here. George is.

And I will tell you what I have seen. I have seen with each passing day that goes by with no evidence against George, Nash and Parker smiles more and George looks more and more relaxed. Go back and look for yourself. All 14 days of it. Catch Georges relaxed stance right after the shoe expert testified that she couldn't say for sure George wore those shoes. That's when George stopped frowning and looking so angry.

Think there might be a reason for that? My bet is Nash and Parker is not growing merrier by the day because the state is proving their case.

JMO

Snip: "I wouldn't, not without some solid evidence to back up what they say"

Hence, why the prosecution is laying out evidence to corraborate their testimony -- evidence they supposedly did not know the state had before their proffers

 

[gizmobtj]

According to the Ohio code, there is none, if reporting it would incriminate a family member. I may have read it wrong, but Ohio is one of the few states who even has a law about reporting knowledge of a criminal act.

Section 2921.22 | Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury.

Yup. In most states, I believe, it's not a crime to not report knowledge of a crime that you believe will be committed. In most states, I believe it is legal to simply not report a crime, but I believe there are some exceptions, such as Texas. But there are all sorts of laws -- for therapists and physicians, teachers, etc. that require mandatory reporting. Also, if you are an accessory after the fact or a conspirator, the 5th Amendment probably protects you from having to report, etc.

 

[Chelly]

Snip: "I wouldn't, not without some solid evidence to back up what they say"

Hence, why the prosecution is laying out evidence to corraborate their testimony -- evidence they supposedly did not know the state had before their proffers

So far, the jury has seen and heard tons of evidence against Jake. George, who is on trial, has hardly been mentioned. I have watched live stream every day, read every tweet....still, just my opinion. BTW I believe GW is as guilty as the others, but my thoughts are about what the jury is thinking.

 

[rsd1200]

I have no doubt Jake and Angela will follow through with their plea deal. But wondering if prosecution will call them to the witness stand next week? Or, will prosecution continue to call other witnesses next week? If Jake and Angela are the ones who say George is complicit in the murders, isn't it about time for the jury to hear their testimony?

BIBM Agree, I most definitely think it is time.

 

[Myland]

Jmo according to Jake’s proffer they went to fr after cr but door was locked. I believe fr and/or hg was still awake due to text message how was he not worried he was heard trying to get in door?

 

[Ann99]

Don’t see it, Jake had muscles and George was a Fat Lard Bucket at that time! JMO

I think at the very least, G4 , large as he was, could assist Billy in moving bodies
wasn’t JW busy elsewhere doing many other things related to keys, looking for more keys, looking for another safe, cash…etc. JW was busy.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

So far, the jury has seen and heard tons of evidence against Jake. George, who is on trial, has hardly been mentioned. I have watched live stream every day, read every tweet....still, just my opinion. BTW I believe GW is as guilty as the others, but my thoughts are about what the jury is thinking.

The jury has had and will have directions from the judge as to the charges, the big 3 being Aggravated Murder, Aggravated Burglary, and Conspiracy, all of which do not require any particular participant to pull the trigger. The state of course has to establish the murders first, i.e., who was murdered and how? They have to establish the aggravated burglary, i.e., someone entered these home illicitly to commit a crime. They don't have to provide motive, but cases don't usually go far without some argument as to why 8 people were slaughtered. So that's where we are right now.

None of what we've seen is just evidence against Jake. It's evidence of crimes. Autopsy reports, cause of death, blood evidence, bullet casings, missing security cameras. Right now we're getting into motive--how controlling Jake was over Hanna and eventually the forged custody documents, what Tabitha will say. That will lead to who did it and how we know who did it (the guns being tied to the ballistics, the murder truck, etc.) That evidence will take us to the Conspiracy that is tied to the charge of Aggravated Murder, to which both Angela and Jake will testify. It's up to the judge to explain the law and the prosecutors to explain why the law says the Wagners as a group are guilty. Not just Jake. Not just Angela.

It's not for nothing that Jake and Angela took a plea. The same prosecutors who go LWOP for Jake are prosecuting his brother. We've always known this case would take 6 or 7 weeks. It's 8 murders. It's complicated. But being methodical is the only way to help the jury put it all together.

 

[24Roses]

I have no doubt Jake and Angela will follow through with their plea deal. But wondering if prosecution will call them to the witness stand next week? Or, will prosecution continue to call other witnesses next week? If Jake and Angela are the ones who say George is complicit in the murders, isn't it about time for the jury to hear their testimony?

I posted an article on Friday, saying that more family members would testify next week. Reporters seem to think that would at least include JW and GWIV's grandmothers. Chelsea R. has to be cross examined 1st by the defense on Monday. So far only members of the Rhodens and Manleys have testified. IMO-CR could be the last one. J and GWIV's exes should also be testifying around the same time as the grandmother's. Maybe even some people they knew in Alaska? IMO-maybe J and AW would be towards the beginning of the week of October 10, but could also hear more LE first, too.