OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #74

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@RAISINISBACK When we look at all their behaviors as a whole, it isn't normal. Homeschooling is normal, adult children living at home is normal, grandkids even living with grandparents is normal. But the reasons why is what makes it questionable. If they are all living at home with their wives and kids and grandma wants to be called mom, grandma has passwords for accounts, says who can come around and who can't, who can talk to who, etc. We have daughter in law running for her life leaving her child behind. There is a bigger picture here that is not normal.

My point with all that is this motive of having custody of a grandchild/child seems wild to most of us because this isn't something we could ever consider. Their family dynamic was just very different and in my opinion, not normal. It is not healthy for the grandparents to be controlling the kids and grandkids and all living together and voting on things. It's one thing if a family is on hard times and living there because they have to, but to have a mother that wants control, it does point to why/how this was a motive, when most of us who have a normal life (again normal is a wide range of things, but something normal in a healthy for all involved way) can't comprehend how this is the motive, but it appears that it is.
I actually think Jake was the driving force, not Angie. I think Jake was Angie's favorite and when Hannah left him he was trying any thing he could to get her back. He had groomed her for years, since she was barely 13 and he just could not let her go. When it was obvious she was not going to put his name on the birth certificate, not coming back to him, indeed was moving in with another man he went batshyte crazy. Being Mama's boy he went to Angie and she started nagging Billy to do something about it. AC even said that Angie was nagging, nagging, nagging Billy.

I have said from day one this is Jake's show all the way and this trial is nothing but Jake's show all the way.

Otherwise George's ex wife and her whole family would be dead too.

I am wondering if the thought ever crossed Hannah's mind that Jake was a pedophile who groomed her from a young age and that is why she dug her heels in and wouldn't allow him to take SW or KR. Just a thought.
JMO
 
The problem is I feel like I am watching Jake's trial. The prosecution has barely mentioned George. I can almost count on one hand how many times George's name has been said in court, All the evidence, all the testimony is about Jake. AC has asked a couple of softball questions of the witnesses like have you ever seen George at Chris Sr's, did you see George at the fireworks display, which we don't even know why that is important, did you see George at the funeral, was he a friend of Frankies? That is it. From listening to the testimony from the R family I am getting the feeling that none of them knew George other than to say hello to if they saw him.

Cody M's testimony was distracting to say the least. All those facial expressions, mouthing things out toward the gallery, being openly hostile to the defense attorneys made his testimony seem trivial to me. Maybe not to others, but to me it did. It was very emotional, that is true, but the jury is not going to send a man to prison for life because they feel sorry for a witness who is nervous on the stand. Plus I felt he and some others are not telling the whole truth. He was Frankie's cousin and best friend, worked with him, visited him often, but yet claimed he never went to a chicken fight with him, and knew nothing about the MJ grows. That has been a reoccurring theme with a lot of the witnesses. The only two that were honest about the MJ was Luke and Kendra. I think it has to do with mistrust of LE. If it is illegal activity, admit nothing. I don't blame them after JM was arrested by BCI and charged with obstruction. Natural reaction not to trust LE not to use something you said under oath in a court of law against you. But in the end no real evidence against George and Cody finally ended up admitting he had seen him a couple of times, but never spoke to him. He really didn't have anything as far as evidence on Jake either since he did not even witness the argument April testified to.

Kendra witnessed one incident of abuse from Jake, April testified to an argument that ended up with Hannah claiming Jake chased her at high speeds, but did not witness him doing this. All of that is beside the point. Jake pleaded guilty to all counts. Bringing in testimony of arguments, instances of abuse by Jake is damaging the states case against George as it is distracting the jury with little more than gossip.

Then there was Corey H. Very emotional testimony but very little substance. Once again what he said about Jake was hearsay, what Hannah had told him. No evidence against George at all, AC finally got him to admit he may have seen George with other family members at a Bday party once. All he added in the way of evidence for me is testifying to the actions of Hannah in the hours leading up to her death.

The state has no forensic evidence against George so far. I sat through crime scene testimony, ballistic testimony, shoe print evidence, DNA and fingerprint evidence and in the end not one of the BCI agents could put a gun in George's hand, put the shoe on his foot, or prove he was at the scenes or even in Ohio that night.

No one other than Jake and Angie said he was. I have my own theory about the deal Jake made and why he made it. The only real testimony against George in this case is Jake and Angie. Actually not even Angie since she cannot testify to what happened after they walked out the door, since both she and Jake has put on record she was not at the murder scenes. She cannot even testify to the shoes being worn by George since she went on record saying they never wore them, she threw them away because they didn't like them.

I feel like all this emotional testimony about how Jake abused Hannah is extremely damaging to the state's case against George. It is distracting the jury and in the end the jury is going to come out feeling that although there may be evidence against George's family there is not one shred of evidence against George himself that has been presented so far. As I said, the jury is not going to convict a man on guilt by family association. Especially not of 8 murders and a life sentence.

I sincerely hope we get to hear some real evidence against George soon.
JMO
You are hearing evidence against George. He is charged with Aggravated Murder, Aggravated Burglary and Conspiracy--just as Angela was. In order to convict him, the state has to show the murders, the burglaries, and the conspiracy. If Jake's and Angela's proffer states that custody was the issue that precipitated the murder, then the state has to provide testimony about why custody was an issue. Don't forget that Jake and Angela have testified that George was there on the night of the murder and that he participated in the planning and preparation and coverup. That's Aggravated Murder and Conspiracy and Burglary.
 
@RAISINISBACK When we look at all their behaviors as a whole, it isn't normal. Homeschooling is normal, adult children living at home is normal, grandkids even living with grandparents is normal. But the reasons why is what makes it questionable. If they are all living at home with their wives and kids and grandma wants to be called mom, grandma has passwords for accounts, says who can come around and who can't, who can talk to who, etc. We have daughter in law running for her life leaving her child behind. There is a bigger picture here that is not normal.

My point with all that is this motive of having custody of a grandchild/child seems wild to most of us because this isn't something we could ever consider. Their family dynamic was just very different and in my opinion, not normal. It is not healthy for the grandparents to be controlling the kids and grandkids and all living together and voting on things. It's one thing if a family is on hard times and living there because they have to, but to have a mother that wants control, it does point to why/how this was a motive, when most of us who have a normal life (again normal is a wide range of things, but something normal in a healthy for all involved way) can't comprehend how this is the motive, but it appears that it is.
It's not that they are living together. It's the enmeshment. There are no psychological or emotional boundaries between them and their parents. Jake and George 4 never "individuated" from their parents, as normal adolescents do. And so Jake and GW4 do not recognize their wives as partners; they are actual outsiders in the larger family. Pretty sure that Tabitha and Hanna and EW did not get "voting rights" at the kitchen table. They couldn't even control their own sex lives.

I've always suspected the Jake picked Hanna because he thought he could groom her to accept her status because she was so young.
 
They always say follow the money traithem,

On the other hand, there are many colleges she could have attended virtually free of charge with grants and low interest loans. Got herself a career which paid very well.

But then she could have just got a job like Dana did.

One thing that is weighing on me in all this testimony is what they are saying about Jake not letting Hannah leave the house. During the time Hannah was with jake and even when she lived with the W's Hannah finished high school. Hannah had a job. Hannah was at Chris Sr's side in the hospital. Hannah visited family and friends. Hannah had a car.

Like I said, all this emotional testimony about Jakes abuse is damaging the states case against George. Do I think Jake was abusive? Violently so. But what does that have to do with George?

The prosecution is stomping all over their own case and covering any real evidence they have against George up with the truck load of red herrings of emotional testimony about Jake abusing Hannah.

JMO
There has been a lot of testimony, (proffers are testimony) not hearsay, but actual testimony from Angela and Jake that George was at the crime scenes.

You come across like the jury won't believe a word of what Jake and Angela testify to under oath.

Then on top of that the prosecution told the court they had George committing all 4 parts of the crimes without Jake and Angela's testimony.

The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.

Also the prosecutor said that Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part the other doing the other part then each is responsible for the whole.

He, the prosecutor, said that the defendant doesn't seem to get that he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime.


Until Nash's opening statement the defense did not deny that George was there, they did not deny at the hearings or in their Motions that:

1.) Angie placed him there.
2.) Jake placed him there.
3.) He went at the last minute.
4.) He only went to protect Jake from Billy.
5.) He hid at Chris's in the truck.
6.) He didn't shoot anyone while being there.

You have Jake's first hand account of George buying items to make suppressors, George helping to buy the murder truck, George modifying the murder truck, George hiding at Chris's in the murder truck, George pointing a gun at Chris but then Jake taking it away, Jake saying George moved bodies at Chris's then stood near Chris Jr's bedroom in Dana's house. Angie saying George went with Billy and Jake to the murder scenes.

2 guns used in the murders were listed as George owning them on Angie's laptop. Jake had a family gun list on his phone. George practiced shooting suppressors in his woods, George signed fake custody documents, George made threats and many incriminating statements and BCI has 8,000 statements of interest from the Wagners. George bought a glock and a night scope and a mask and used Jake's rewards card, George voted to do the murders and Angela vividly remembers asking George if he wanted to go through with it. George was in the truck at Walmart while Angie was buying the murder shoes.

Angie admits buying the murder shoes just for George to use in the murders and there was no wear on the tread of those shoes. Angie said she showed the shoes to George but George says no, she never did show him the shoes. George told lies to BCI they have recorded including telling BCI that custody was fine with Jake. The shoe expert proves there were 2 different shoe prints at the crime scenes.

The trial is still in the beginning and the prosecution hasn't even had the chance yet to prove all this evidence and get all this testimony in front of the jury. The prosecution knows they have to prove this evidence and testimony against George.

If all 12 jurors agree that George was at the crime scenes he will be convicted of murder. Nash knows this. This is why I believe Nash is changing his story and now saying George wasn't at the crime scenes, and didn't know about the murders until after they happened. George being at the crime scenes supports several other charges against him.

Give the prosecution time to prove it's case against George before you have him acquitted of 22 felonies.

Also the prosecution said they have both circumstantial evidence and actual evidence against George.

And yes they did everything together and voted on everything together. There was never a time George, Angie and Jake never lived together. Of course the prosecution will have witnesses to prove this. They have all the bank accounts showing shared money and proof the brother's worked together.

No juror in their right mind will believe George knew nothing about the murder plot. No juror in their right mind will believe that George could not have called LE or warned the Rhodens which would have prevented the whole thing.

Now Nash is saying that George didn't like how his family was run and that he fought with Billy over it and tried to talk the 3 out of committing the murders. If this was true George would have stopped his family from committing the murders, Nash is so full of it.



Canepa said there are wiretap recordings catching George speaking to Jake about them - not just Angie and Billy and Jake - but them, also meaning George - being in trouble, and that Jake should have smashed his laptop and thrown away his phone.

It won't be hard for the State to prove that George was going along with his family's Murder Conspiracy. They have 8,000 recordings of interest. Remember these few quotes from George? Scheiderer said they have incriminating statements from George. These are only a few, there will be 100's more I think because they have 8,000 of interest.

Incriminating statements:

1.) If they have the gun they have the silencer. (After Scheiderer sent George a photo of a gun BCI thought was used in the murders.)
2.) I told you to get rid of your phone.
3.) We have a family emergency. (After Scheiderer sent George the gun photo.)
4.) Don't come down here we have company.
5.) Jake's always getting us in trouble over some woman.
6.) I want to bash Scheiderer's face in.
7.) Make Reader pay make DeWine pay - violent tendencies Scheiderer said.
8.) We're being bugged don't say anything till we get home.
9.) I bought a night scope.
10.) I bought a Captain America mask.
11.) Making fun of Jake's religion many times = they don't celebrate Halloween so what was the mask for?
12.) Those not arrested will break the others out of jail.
13.) We will take revenge against anyone who goes against us.

Canepa said in her closing argument at the Bond Hearing that George's buying a night scope made it convenient to shoot people in bed in the middle of the night. Well it was dark when he was standing in Dana's house with everyone in bed.

Canepa & Scheiderer at George's Bond Hearing
 
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I just wonder WHY G4 would have felt like he needed to "go along" to protect Jake from Billy? My mind wanders back in time too much.:oops:;)
IMO, G4 didn't "need" to go along, G4 went along because he wanted to.

He was a very integral part of the W4's family plan to murder 8 people.

All for one and one for all.

Conspiracy...

JMO
 
I just wonder WHY G4 would have felt like he needed to "go along" to protect Jake from Billy? My mind wanders back in time too much.:oops:;)
If we look at George's size and Jake's size, we can also conclude that maybe George was there to protect Jake from more than just Billy. I think the possibility of multiple men being at each location some locations maybe 3 men, it makes sense to me that 3 men needed to go along for this plan. At the very least 1 lookout at each location and 2 are then able to commit whatever murders, robbery, etc they are going to do.
 
There has been a lot of testimony, (proffers are testimony) not hearsay, but actual testimony from Angela and Jake that George was at the crime scenes.

You come across like the jury won't believe a word of what Jake and Angela testify to under oath.


Then on top of that the prosecution told the court they had George committing all 4 parts of the crimes without Jake and Angela's testimony.

The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.

Also the prosecutor said that Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part the other doing the other part then each is responsible for the whole.

He, the prosecutor, said that the defendant doesn't seem to get that he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime.


Until Nash's opening statement the defense did not deny that George was there, they did not deny at the hearings or in their Motions that:

1.) Angie placed him there.
2.) Jake placed him there.
3.) He went at the last minute.
4.) He only went to protect Jake from Billy.
5.) He hid at Chris's in the truck.
6.) He didn't shoot anyone while being there.

You have Jake's first hand account of George buying items to make suppressors, George helping to buy the murder truck, George modifying the murder truck, George hiding at Chris's in the murder truck, George pointing a gun at Chris but then Jake taking it away, Jake saying George moved bodies at Chris's then stood near Chris Jr's bedroom in Dana's house. Angie saying George went with Billy and Jake to the murder scenes.

2 guns used in the murders were listed as George owning them on Angie's laptop. Jake had a family gun list on his phone. George practiced shooting suppressors in his woods, George signed fake custody documents, George made threats and many incriminating statements and BCI has 8,000 statements of interest from the Wagners. George bought a glock and a night scope and a mask and used Jake's rewards card, George voted to do the murders and Angela vividly remembers asking George if he wanted to go through with it. George was in the truck at Walmart while Angie was buying the murder shoes.

Angie admits buying the murder shoes just for George to use in the murders and there was no wear on the tread of those shoes. Angie said she showed the shoes to George but George says no, she never did show him the shoes. George told lies to BCI they have recorded including telling BCI that custody was fine with Jake. The shoe expert proves there were 2 different shoe prints at the crime scenes.

The trial is still in the beginning and the prosecution hasn't even had the chance yet to prove all this evidence and get all this testimony in front of the jury. The prosecution knows they have to prove this evidence and testimony against George.

If all 12 jurors agree that George was at the crime scenes he will be convicted of murder. Nash knows this. This is why I believe Nash is changing his story and now saying George wasn't at the crime scenes, and didn't know about the murders until after they happened. George being at the crime scenes supports several other charges against him.

Give the prosecution time to prove it's case against George before you have him acquitted of 22 felonies.

Also the prosecution said they have both circumstantial evidence and actual evidence against George.

And yes they did everything together and voted on everything together. There was never a time George, Angie and Jake never lived together. Of course the prosecution will have witnesses to prove this. They have all the bank accounts showing shared money and proof the brother's worked together.

No juror in their right mind will believe George knew nothing about the murder plot. No juror in their right mind will believe that George could not have called LE or warned the Rhodens which would have prevented the whole thing.

Now Nash is saying that George didn't like how his family was run and that he fought with Billy over it and tried to talk the 3 out of committing the murders. If this was true George would have stopped his family from committing the murders, Nash is so full of it.



Canepa said there are wiretap recordings catching George speaking to Jake about them - not just Angie and Billy and Jake - but them, also meaning George - being in trouble, and that Jake should have smashed his laptop and thrown away his phone.

It won't be hard for the State to prove that George was going along with his family's Murder Conspiracy. They have 8,000 recordings of interest. Remember these few quotes from George? Scheiderer said they have incriminating statements from George. These are only a few, there will be 100's more I think because they have 8,000 of interest.

Incriminating statements:

1.) If they have the gun they have the silencer. (After Scheiderer sent George a photo of a gun BCI thought was used in the murders.)
2.) I told you to get rid of your phone.
3.) We have a family emergency. (After Scheiderer sent George the gun photo.)
4.) Don't come down here we have company.
5.) Jake's always getting us in trouble over some woman.
6.) I want to bash Scheiderer's face in.
7.) Make Reader pay make DeWine pay - violent tendencies Scheiderer said.
8.) We're being bugged don't say anything till we get home.
9.) I bought a night scope.
10.) I bought a Captain America mask.
11.) Making fun of Jake's religion many times = they don't celebrate Halloween so what was the mask for?
12.) Those not arrested will break the others out of jail.
13.) We will take revenge against anyone who goes against us.

Canepa said in her closing argument at the Bond Hearing that George's buying a night scope made it convenient to shoot people in bed in the middle of the night. Well it was dark when he was standing in Dana's house with everyone in bed.

Canepa & Scheiderer at George's Bond Hearing
BBM

You come across like the jury won't believe a word of what Jake and Angela testify to under oath.

I wouldn't, not without some solid evidence to back up what they say. I have seen them both lie too many times in front of cameras and reporters. Do you really think Nash and Parker have not seen those same interviews that we have, that catches both of them in lies? Or Nash and Parker haven't read what the investigators put in their reports about, as Charlie Reader so succulently put it, "And the lies. All the lies they told." Do you think Nash and Parker were deaf in that courtroom during the motion hearing where AC said Jake told several different stories and his proffer is not consistent with all the evidence that BCI has?

In my opinion Nash and Parker are going to tear both Jake and Angie a new one. Every single one of those lies they have told is going to be thrown back in their face in front of that jury. Bet on it.

Almost everything you outlined was prefixed with Jake said, Angie said. All they did was give an outline of what they say happened that night. It is going to take solid evidence to back up what Jake and Angie said before they get a conviction. As the old saying goes "talk is cheap, it takes money to buy whiskey."

Also the prosecution said they have both circumstantial evidence and actual evidence against George.

Then hopefully sometime soon we get to see the actual evidence.

Let me make this clear. I think George is guilty as sin. I have thought that for 6 years now. But I also have a bad feeling that AC is tanking her own case with these testimonies that Jake abused Hannah. That has nothing to do with George. She is dumping a boat load of red herrings all over her case. Those are MY thoughts and MY opinion. I am not asking anyone else to share them.

Give the prosecution time to prove it's case against George before you have him acquitted of 22 felonies.

Well hopefully he won't get acquitted. But with each passing day I become less sure he will be found guilty unless AC gets off her duff and presents some hard evidence to the jury. And stops bringing in all the witnesses to testify against Jake. Because while it may be very satisfying for the family to face George in court it is going to leave the jury asking "where's the evidence against this defendant who's trial we are supposed to be at?"

Better keep in mind that Jake and Angie are not on trial here. George is.

And I will tell you what I have seen. I have seen with each passing day that goes by with no evidence against George, Nash and Parker smiles more and George looks more and more relaxed. Go back and look for yourself. All 14 days of it. Catch Georges relaxed stance right after the shoe expert testified that she couldn't say for sure George wore those shoes. That's when George stopped frowning and looking so angry.

Think there might be a reason for that? My bet is Nash and Parker is not growing merrier by the day because the state is proving their case.

JMO
 
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I just wonder WHY G4 would have felt like he needed to "go along" to protect Jake from Billy? My mind wanders back in time too much.:oops:;)
I think it was the other way around. I have stared at that bullet hole in that door jam for hours. Each time it looks like it would have hit mere inches away from Billy's head if he were standing there. Almost like that first shot was aimed at the back of Billy's head. No evidence or link, JMO.
 
If we look at George's size and Jake's size, we can also conclude that maybe George was there to protect Jake from more than just Billy. I think the possibility of multiple men being at each location some locations maybe 3 men, it makes sense to me that 3 men needed to go along for this plan. At the very least 1 lookout at each location and 2 are then able to commit whatever murders, robbery, etc they are going to do.
I think that Jake could have did it all without George or Billy. Once he ambushed Chris and Gary all the rest was easy peasy. All the rest were shot in their sleep. From Chris's onward all it took was one sneaky little snake slithering into the other three homes and killing them while they slept.

JMO
 
I think that Jake could have did it all without George or Billy. Once he ambushed Chris and Gary all the rest was easy peasy. All the rest were shot in their sleep. From Chris's onward all it took was one sneaky little snake slithering into the other three homes and killing them while they slept.

JMO
Jake would have no way to know if everyone would be asleep or if Hannah's boyfriend would be there, if Chris Jr had a friend over or if anyone else would be around and awake. Could one person do it all, yes. But, when there are unknowns like how many people would be there and knowing full well at least 2 homes had guns present and dogs. I think it's unlikely any one of them would have went solo on this spree. I think it's unlikely they would have went as a duo. I do think it's more likely that George went along to help be a lookout. They lived close together and if there was any hint of something going wrong at one of the homes, then it's possible that would draw attention and other family coming to help.
 
Patience Grasshopper.:)

I have faith in the jury. I have faith in the prosecutors. Thankfully I have no faith in the defense lawyers. They best they have had so far is - objection, objection. Though slowly, the evidence is nicely unfolding.

After all of the evidence has been shown, IMO the linchpin will be laying out the Conspiracy charge, #22.

I do believe justice is coming!

JMO

Great post! Put honestly and simply. Thanks. Definitely agree.
 
IMO, G4 didn't "need" to go along, G4 went along because he wanted to.

He was a very integral part of the W4's family plan to murder 8 people.

All for one and one for all.

Conspiracy...

JMO
Yup! Agree, he will be found guilty on conspiracy and going on the murder spree and end up in prison. The 4 were a strong enmeshed unit. Prosecution still has much to lay out and present to the jury. The alternate juror who took over is taking constant notes and often the jurors are on the edge of their seats according to
Agenette Levy. Sounds like a serious jury.

The trial of George Wagner IV is expected to last several weeks.
 
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Special prosecutor Angela Canepa did not accuse George Wagner, 30, of shooting anyone in April 2016, but she said he took part in planning, carrying out and covering up "one of the most heinous crimes in Ohio history."

He was with his brother and father
when they drove to three separate locations where all eight were killed, went inside with the pair and helped his brother move two of the bodies, Canepa said.

Some of the victims were treated as "collateral damage" by the Wagners, Canepa said.

"They knew that there might be other people there and agreed they would need to be killed too," she said. "People they had no issue with, they were willing to kill them indiscriminately."

A custody dispute between two families that erupted into the massacre of eight people in rural southern Ohio started with a plan to kill just one of them, a young mother refusing to give up her daughter, a prosecutor said Monday.

But just months before the killings in 2016, the family behind the plot decided to kill everyone who could point the finger at them, the prosecutor said during opening statements of the first trial in the slayings.


Massacre of 8 people began with plot to kill 19-year …

 
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Yup! Agree, he will be found guilty on conspiracy and going on the murder spree and end up in prison. The 4 were a strong enmeshed unit. Prosecution still has much to lay out and present to the jury. The alternate juror who took over is taking constant notes and often the jurors are on the edge of their seats according to
Agenette Levy. Sounds like a serious jury.

The trial of George Wagner IV is expected to last several weeks.
Since you mentioned taking notes, I wonder how big the note books are that the jurors get? IIRC, at the beginning of last week at the latest, the judge said that they gave some of the jurors a second notebook and more would be available to the jurors if they wanted them. It sounds like the jurors are taking alot of notes. ETA-when I think of notebooks, I think of the notebooks with lines that kids use for school (so alot of lines and pages.)
 
If we look at George's size and Jake's size, we can also conclude that maybe George was there to protect Jake from more than just Billy. I think the possibility of multiple men being at each location some locations maybe 3 men, it makes sense to me that 3 men needed to go along for this plan. At the very least 1 lookout at each location and 2 are then able to commit whatever murders, robbery, etc they are going to do.
Don’t see it, Jake had muscles and George was a Fat Lard Bucket at that time! JMO
 
I think that Jake could have did it all without George or Billy. Once he ambushed Chris and Gary all the rest was easy peasy. All the rest were shot in their sleep. From Chris's onward all it took was one sneaky little snake slithering into the other three homes and killing them while they slept.

JMO
So JW lied when he said DR was awake on her phone and that HR looked at him?
 
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