OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #74

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SuziQ said:
GW4 and the other three conspired together. All for one one for all. They are all equally responsible. That is the basis for the charges against GW4. Imo.
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I understand that part, but JW is saying that GW4 didn't shoot anyone and he has to testify truthfully for them all to be cleared of the DP. I agree that G4 deserves the charges he's got, due to conspiracy and aiding, etc... I do believe the four acted as one, but is the prosecution leaving an opening jic JW lies? Do they have proof that G4 pulled a trigger and caused one of the three murders that JW didn't confess to doing?
 
It’s going to take me a while to catch up but in the meantime I have a burning question:

Has there been any testimony/reasonable explanation for BW to have lived (at his parents) separately from the family? I understand he helped more and more at the farm, however, millions upon millions of people commute to their job every day. To me, it sounds like this was an on going living arrangement, more than just his father’s illness/death and it only adds to the strangeness that was the norm for the W family.

Any insight on this?
 
I saw this on an unrelated website today and it reminded me of today's day in court:
It is very tempting to take the side of the perpetrator. All the perpetrator asks is that the bystander do nothing. He appeals to the universal desire to see, hear and speak no evil. The victim, on the contrary, asks the bystander to share the burden of pain. The victim demands action, engagement, and remembering . . . In order to escape accountability for his crimes, the perpetrator does everything in his power to promote forgetting. Secrecy and silence are the perpetrator’s first line of defense. If secrecy fails, the perpetrator attacks the credibility of his victim. If he cannot silence her absolutely, he tries to make sure that no one listens. To this end, he marshals an impressive array of arguments, from the most blatant denial to the most sophisticated and elegant rationalization. After every atrocity one can expect to hear the same predictable apologies: it never happened; the victim lies; the victim exaggerates; the victim brought it on herself; and in any case it is time to forget the past and move on. The more powerful the perpetrator, the greater is his prerogative to name and define reality, and the more completely his arguments prevail.
– Judith Lewis Herman, Trauma and Recovery
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I don't think George4 will prevail but this is a pretty good description of what we saw today. Listening to Tabitha today was indeed to at least try to "share the burden of pain." I doubt that her pain and her dignity was lost on the jury, this sad and traumatized young woman who has essentially had to raise herself.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
Guns, guns, guns.
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George involved with guns plus:

Buying items like fuel filters, mask, night scope, truck, glock, 2 of his guns matched guns listed on Angie's laptop. He modified truck, lied to BCI which would be on video and recorded, left bloody footprints in a shoe his mom described buying for him, denied she showed him the shoes, seems to have left a shoe print at 2 crime scenes - Chris and Dana's. Dragged Chris and Gary's bodies with Billy.

Signed fake custody documents, did everything as an emeshed unit with his family, always having lived with Jake and Angie. Used Angie's laptop and Jake's rewards card, made all kinds of incriminating statements over the phone and in his truck and on texts. Made threats - violent tendencies according to Scheiderer - and plotted jail breaks. Dyed his hair right before murders, voted for murders, practiced shooting using suppressors, hid outside at Chris's and tried to shoot him, is placed at the murder scenes by 2, not 1, but by 2 of his co-defendants.

Ok. Some of this does only come from the proffers but not all of it. Add up evidence, curcumstantial evidence, witness testimony, expert testimony, forensics, ballistics, blood, taped and videoed interviews, his voice on BCI recordings, neighborhood video footage of trucks. Being at crime scenes ties him into Conspiracy, Tampering with Evidence, Aggravated Murder and Aggravated Robbery and being in possession of a Dangerous Ordnance the Suppressor. ETC.....

Then the case against him only gets stronger. Everyday we and the jury hear new things. The jury I believe will hear enough of all of the evidence put together to convict him of Murder Conspiracy. A totality of all the evidence that is too much for the defense to overcome.

PS. What defense? 2 co-defendants admitted their family did it, no one else. No Cartel, no drug hit men, no bad business dealings, no revenge from other people out there, no jealousy from the Manleys, ETC.....
 
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Betty P said:
It really sounds like this is AW's way of making money. Maybe she thought she could claim government funding for keeping these kids. IDK, but it had to be transactional for her. She had to be getting something out of it.
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I think AW was looking for more money later down the line - their inheritance from FW.

JMO
 
CIA Team Member said:
I think only the women on the jury can understand what this young girl went through.
She was a young child and IMO, mostly women can grasp what she went through.
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So, I am a man and I had a hard time watching her testimony today. How the men in her life treated her struck a nerve with me. You are correct, I could not know what she went through. But what I will say is this.....Numerous men in her life have let her down. Numerous failed to be a "real man". I can't really speak for her real dad he might have died early on in her life...but definitely starting with her step dad who molested her and her sisters. Then at age 11 she is sleeping in the same bed as male. So, inapropriate no matter what the age the male is. If Billy wagner was a real man he would have stopped that in the bethel road house(or any house). Then of course later on she Marries George who is still living with his parents. Of course George is going to follow the example of his father and have no respect for Tabitha. Then of course he slaps Tabitha. I have no respect for any man that lays a hand on any female. None! I truly, truly hope tabitha gets to a place where she is treated with dignity and respect.
 
Chris_p_bacon said:
So, I am a man and I had a hard time watching her testimony today. How the men in her life treated her struck a nerve with me. You are correct, I could not know what she went through. But what I will say is this.....Numerous men in her life have let her down. Numerous failed to be a "real man". I can't really speak for her real dad he might have died early on in her life...but definitely starting with her step dad who molested her and her sisters. Then at age 11 she is sleeping in the same bed as male. So, inapropriate no matter what the age the male is. If Billy wagner was a real man he would have stopped that in the bethel road house(or any house). Then of course later on she Marries George who is still living with his parents. Of course George is going to follow the example of his father and have no respect for Tabitha. Then of course he slaps Tabitha. I have no respect for any man that lays a hand on any female. None! I truly, truly hope tabitha gets to a place where she is treated with dignity and respect.
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As a male I could not agree more. And now she is being abused for being abused, by Nash.
 
Betty P said:
Angela Wagner will have to testify truthfully about all the things that happened to these girls while in her house. She will have to tell how Tabitha was physically abused by GW4 and Hanna by Jake. She will have to testify that GW4, along with the rest of his family, made the decision to kill the Rhoden family and Hannah Gilley.

IOW, Angela Canepa knows that everything Tabitha and Ms Staley testified about will be verified by Angela Wagner, per her plea agreement. AC isn't going to allow any of these witnesses to testify to anything that Angela Wagner and Jake aren't going to verify.
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I hope She has to testify about giving a small child Xanax. If she does state she gave that child Xanax, I hope she is charged seperately for that.
 
Boy Nash really takes the cake!
If I ever kill somebody then he’s the attorney for me, and his partner are two dirty SOBs, theirs all kinds of people that have to take meds for mind issues and preform big jobs everyday, attorneys Nash needs to put GW4 in mental medicine because all the Wagners are Bat $hit Crazy thinking it’s alright to shoot 8 people while the sleep, who lets 11 year old babies sleep together like man and wife, and the bad part about it is that Nash tried to make it look like Tabatha’s fault. The day.Dumb a$$ George was arrested he kept trying to make LE send Tabatha to go see a Dr, saying she crazy not to give her their son, and another thing GW4 told his 5 year son that his mommy killed the Rhoden family and was trying to posing the child,
So I ask you Sleuthers, WHO IS THE CRAZY PERSON? JMO
I can’t see why the prosecution didn’t object to that line of question because the ex-wife was not the one on trial!
 
rsd1200 said:
I understand that part, but JW is saying that GW4 didn't shoot anyone and he has to testify truthfully for them all to be cleared of the DP. I agree that G4 deserves the charges he's got, due to conspiracy and aiding, etc... I do believe the four acted as one, but is the prosecution leaving an opening jic JW lies? Do they have proof that G4 pulled a trigger and caused one of the three murders that JW didn't confess to doing?
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I don't I think it matters if GW4 Pulled the trigger or is even proved he was present. By law conspiring and planning the murders makes him just as guilty as the ones who were there and pulled the trigger.
 
Chris_p_bacon said:
So, I am a man and I had a hard time watching her testimony today. How the men in her life treated her struck a nerve with me. You are correct, I could not know what she went through. But what I will say is this.....Numerous men in her life have let her down. Numerous failed to be a "real man". I can't really speak for her real dad he might have died early on in her life...but definitely starting with her step dad who molested her and her sisters. Then at age 11 she is sleeping in the same bed as male. So, inapropriate no matter what the age the male is. If Billy wagner was a real man he would have stopped that in the bethel road house(or any house). Then of course later on she Marries George who is still living with his parents. Of course George is going to follow the example of his father and have no respect for Tabitha. Then of course he slaps Tabitha. I have no respect for any man that lays a hand on any female. None! I truly, truly hope tabitha gets to a place where she is treated with dignity and respect.
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She seems really happy with her new husband.
 
I only saw some bits of Tabitha's testimony yesterday and today. From what I saw, she was a solid witness for the prosecution. After all she has been through, I'm proud of her for standing up and boldly speaking the truth. She has honestly admitted to making mistakes in the past, that had to have been hard for her.

What tells me more is that she was willing to have her testimony recorded and broadcast. Good for her!

JMO
 
SuziQ said:
I don't I think it matters if GW4 Pulled the trigger or is even proved he was present. By law conspiring and planning the murders makes him just as guilty as the ones who were there and pulled the trigger.
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The prosecutor said that Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part and the other doing the other part

and then each is responsible for the whole.

He, the prosecutor, said that the defendant doesn't seem to get that - he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime:


The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.
 
I am 15 pages behind today and just now listening to today's testimony .. I have to say, listening to AC's angry and very obvious frustration with the defenses objections and the Judge's talking explanations to his rulings in what should be an easy "over-ruled" or "sustained" answer is quite annoying. I'm wondering if the jury is as put-off as I am right now.

Off to catch up now!
 
Cool Cats said:
The prosecutor said that Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part and the other doing the other part

and then each is responsible for the whole.

He, the prosecutor, said that the defendant doesn't seem to get that - he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime:


The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.
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He probably needs some alone time with mommy so he can get a back and ear scratch. Who knows, he may get q belly rub as a bonus
 
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