OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

[Dudly]

Here is the entire count #22 that specifically mentions Rita and Fredericka. It also mentions ---what you said in your post---the Wagners participated in a pattern of Corrupt Activity OR the Collection of an Unlawful Debt.
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/8ws31ynk746na3a9/images/12-09d55d3c30.jpg

Would blackmail count as corrupt activity? There are a couple possibilities with that...

 

[Loomis124]

Yes! That is where I saw that they have evidence from BBL. Wonder if there is any way for the public to access it? Reporters have it---but it is too much to print--- so they only do partial lists.

Evidence from BBL??? I missed this. Was th from the reporter who spent all day at the courthouse getting that stack of papers?

WAGNER INDICTMENTS TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE ---- 3 SEPARATE COUNTS

I think it is interesting that instead of them all being on one Count, the Tampering With Evidence is on 3 separate Counts. Interesting to see the differences between them.

COUNTS #15 AND #16
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/h4d30sw3k6ncl14/images/10-c53fa36f69.jpg

COUNT #17
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/h4d30sw3k6ncl14/images/24-bc8a2dbf58.jpg

The reason for having three separate could be because of the dates, but each one lists different evidence also.

COUNT 15: Apr 22, 2016
...Alter, destroy, conceal remove any record, document, or thing, to wit:
PHONES and/or CAMERAS, or other unidentified items belonging to the victims...

COUNT 16: Apr 3 2016
...Make, present, or use any record, document or thing, to wit: custody documents, knowing it to be false and with purpose to mislead a public official who is or may be engaged in such proceeding or investigation, or with purpose to corrupt the outcome of any such proceeding or investigation...

COUNT 17: Jan 1 2016 - May 9 2017 (day they went to Alaska)
...Alter, destroy, conceal, or remove any record, document or thing, to wit:
Silencer, and/or parts of a home security system, and other identified items, with which to impair its value or availability as evidence in couch proceeding or investigation...

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Heard a comment by a cop one time and it is definitely true. "If crooks were as smart as they think they are, we'd never catch any of them."

How could the W’s have done better? Well they would’ve gotten rid of the excursion and all the blood evidence inside of it? Maybe catch it on fire or destroy everything inside it?

As for the silencer found in the well.. I would’ve destroyed it somehow or would’ve thrown it away in a different town. Somewhere where it doesn’t connect you to it if ever found.

The security system and trail cams should’ve never been touched. Go in with your whole body covered up and there’s no need to mess with the security cameras.

Buying stuff to commit the crime (brass catchers, specific shoes, video camera etc). You don’t go to Walmart and buy these. You buy stuff like this at a flea market or you go out of town somewhere and pay in cash.

Forged documents. It doesn’t prove murder but it definitely help assure LE that they weren’t on the right track.


Acting right after the murders. When LE announced the laser focus on the Wagner’s and when they begin doing multiple interviewews with them, you don’t stay quiet and try to avoid the world. You post on Facebook saying “le is really questioning me like I did it lol how dumb can u be .. they actually think I’m involved etc”

The last thing you want to do is be real quiet and shut down all your social media. Jake shoulda been in that court room looking back at the surviving family members saying “I didn’t do it you gotta believe me”

 

[Tena]

Yes, they're specific to the type of tampering done: silencer, custody docs, phones & cameras, etc.


Per earlier discussion, note that Count 22, Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity, has weapons specifications linked to the charge. The corrupt activity they engaged in involved illegal use of firearms, silencer, etc. Count 22 probably covers the overall planning and execution of the murders.

I just wonder when they started their planning to obtain custody. They could have started harassing HMR way back with threats and she held her ground. Hence ongoing corrupt activity, which includes the grandmothers being part of the enterprise, which eventually leads up to the deaths. Something had been going on for sometime with this custody issue. JMO

 

[Deleted member 237253]

I just wonder when they started their planning to obtain custody. They could have started harassing HMR way back with threats and she held her ground. Hence ongoing corrupt activity, which includes the grandmothers being part of the enterprise, which eventually leads up to the deaths. Something had been going on for sometime with this custody issue. JMO

My guess probably when Jake found out HMR was pregnant with another man's child. Jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

Evidence from BBL??? I missed this. Was th from the reporter who spent all day at the courthouse getting that stack of papers?


The reason for having three separate could be because of the dates, but each one lists different evidence also.

COUNT 15: Apr 22, 2016
...Alter, destroy, conceal remove any record, document, or thing, to wit:
PHONES and/or CAMERAS, or other unidentified items belonging to the victims...

COUNT 16: Apr 3 2016
...Make, present, or use any record, document or thing, to wit: custody documents, knowing it to be false and with purpose to mislead a public official who is or may be engaged in such proceeding or investigation, or with purpose to corrupt the outcome of any such proceeding or investigation...

COUNT 17: Jan 1 2016 - May 9 2017 (day they went to Alaska)
...Alter, destroy, conceal, or remove any record, document or thing, to wit:
Silencer, and/or parts of a home security system, and other identified items, with which to impair its value or availability as evidence in couch proceeding or investigation...

The information on BBL I got from looking at the stack of papers in the news video clip.
Movie’s use of gun silencer mirrors that of slain Rhoden family

The top of the article has a short news video clip and if you touch bottom of screen you can go to different photos and stop on them. Around the 46 second mark, on the evidence list, it says 1 EXCEL spreadsheet for BBL.

I wasn't thinking about dates but your right the dates also matter. Date of forged custody, date of murders when they were in their houses taking the phones and cameras and shell casings, then the "blanket" date covering the time planning the murders until leaving for Alaska.

Interesting that tampering went on before the murders not just during or after.

 

[Dudly]

How could the W’s have done better? Well they would’ve gotten rid of the excursion and all the blood evidence inside of it? Maybe catch it on fire or destroy everything inside it?

As for the silencer found in the well.. I would’ve destroyed it somehow or would’ve thrown it away in a different town. Somewhere where it doesn’t connect you to it if ever found.

The security system and trail cams should’ve never been touched. Go in with your whole body covered up and there’s no need to mess with the security cameras.

Buying stuff to commit the crime (brass catchers, specific shoes, video camera etc). You don’t go to Walmart and buy these. You buy stuff like this at a flea market or you go out of town somewhere and pay in cash.

Forged documents. It doesn’t prove murder but it definitely help assure LE that they weren’t on the right track.


Acting right after the murders. When LE announced the laser focus on the Wagner’s and when they begin doing multiple interviewews with them, you don’t stay quiet and try to avoid the world. You post on Facebook saying “le is really questioning me like I did it lol how dumb can u be .. they actually think I’m involved etc”

The last thing you want to do is be real quiet and shut down all your social media. Jake shoulda been in that court room looking back at the surviving family members saying “I didn’t do it you gotta believe me”

Almost anywhere in that area would have been better than their choice to destroy/hide evidence. They aren't that far from the Ohio River. Just putting things in a trash bag and setting it out by the road to be picked up would have been better...

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Almost anywhere in that area would have been better than their choice to destroy/hide evidence. They aren't that far from the Ohio River. Just putting things in a trash bag and setting it out by the road to be picked up would have been better...

The Ohio river is very close by. I’m not sure why they kept things like the silencer and security system wow how dumb can U be. They were even dumber bc LE let them get confident thinking they done got away with it. Wrong

 

[Myland]

Wonder what Wagner trailers were searched on 4/15/18. Was that the date they returned to Ohio?

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Wonder what Wagner trailers were searched on 4/15/18. Was that the date they returned to Ohio?

Maybe the one in Alaska?

 

[Loomis124]

The information on BBL I got from looking at the stack of papers in the news video clip.
Movie’s use of gun silencer mirrors that of slain Rhoden family

The top of the article has a short news video clip and if you touch bottom of screen you can go to different photos and stop on them. Around the 46 second mark, on the evidence list, it says 1 EXCEL spreadsheet for BBL.

I wasn't thinking about dates but your right the dates also matter. Date of forged custody, date of murders when they were in their houses taking the phones and cameras and shell casings, then the "blanket" date covering the time planning the murders until leaving for Alaska.

Interesting that tampering went on before the murders not just during or after.

Thanks so much! Did you notice the entry "photos of 1911.22"? Is this the kind of guns used??? Wow. These were used in the movie, too! Cool Cats, will you please look at the evidence list and verify for me? I'm on my phone and having problems getting it to stop on certain pages. TY

 

[Loomis124]

Did anyone else notice they did a search of 845 Bethel Hill Rd. 7/13/17 and have 318 photos and 3 pp inventory!! This was from Cool Cats reference to the short video clip.

Also, "a list of guns"
Pike County murders: Court documents reveal new details

 

[Loomis124]

John Bedell, News Center 7, spent weeks searching through court documents to find new evidence.

If I lived closer, I would be doing this. JS

 

[Loomis124]

I refuse to "like" or be a part of the posts here "troubleshooting" the Wagners' moves in these murders. I can't believe Websleuths condones such. JM very strong Opinion. I see no place for these posts here. TY

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks so much! Did you notice the entry "photos of 1911.22"? Is this the kind of guns used??? Wow. These were used in the movie, too! Cool Cats, will you please look at the evidence list and verify for me? I'm on my phone and having problems getting it to stop on certain pages. TY

Hey @Loomis124, I went back to look and I was able to greatly enlarge it and you are right it says: 1911.22 (2).

Are you sure this type of gun was used in the movie?
The Boondock Saints (1999)

Two Irish Catholic brothers become vigilantes and wipe out Boston's criminal underworld in the name of God.
___________________________________
Because if it was, if the Wagners used a
gun that mimics the movie, then this is important! It could be part of the reason that the movie has been called into evidence. Good find Loomis.
Gun Review: Chiappa 1911-.22 | Gun Digest
Share

With all the controls in the same places as a traditional 1911, the Chiappa 1911-22 gives you a great platform for training.

It sells for under $300, shoots like it is worth $600, and will make any handgunner a better shot in short order.

In most cases when turning to the .22 Long Rifle as a training replacement for a larger centerfire round like the .45 ACP, shooters will opt for something like a Ruger Mark III, or swap out the guts of the 1911 .45 ACP for a .22 Long Rifle conversion kit. Those options work, but now there is a third option, a dedicated pistol that looks and works just like a 1911, but fires the .22 LR. Chiappa Firearms makes this option affordable, accurate and dependable.

Chiappa Firearms has just introduced the new and innovative Model 1911-22. This is not a reworked .45-caliber weapon, but a handgun built from the frame up as a dead look alike to its big brother the Colt .45 1911 Government. Unlike some other replica firearms, the 1911-22 makes use of its own proprietary “Chiappalloy” frame and steel castings, which moves it well away from the plastic and pot metal guns that are floating around in some circles now a days. This handgun is a gun, and not a reworked paint ball system, or based on a plastic toy.

Chiappa .22LR 1911
For Sale from The Sportsman |

With tactical extender. This gun would easily adapt to a silencer/muffler/suppressor |
https://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/5212/996093148/wm_4330545.jpg

 

[Wampuscat]

Whatever. JMO. One doesn't single out private parts by mistake.

It was an example of the sensitive information contained within autopsy results as standard practice -the point was that portions of autopsy results would be redacted exactly BECAUSE of not wanting to upset family members and to respect the victim’s privacy. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

Chiappa .22LR 1911
For Sale from The Sportsman |

With tactical extender. This gun would easily adapt to a silencer/muffler/suppressor |
https://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/5212/996093148/wm_4330545.jpg

[/QUOTE]
Walmart.com also sells Chippewa boots

 

[Loomis124]

Hey @Loomis124, I went back to look and I was able to greatly enlarge it and you are right it says: 1911.22 (2).

Are you sure this type of gun was used in the movie?
The Boondock Saints (1999)

Two Irish Catholic brothers become vigilantes and wipe out Boston's criminal underworld in the name of God.
___________________________________
Because if it was, if the Wagners used a
gun that mimics the movie, then this is important! It could be part of the reason that the movie has been called into evidence. Good find Loomis.
Gun Review: Chiappa 1911-.22 | Gun Digest
Share

With all the controls in the same places as a traditional 1911, the Chiappa 1911-22 gives you a great platform for training.

It sells for under $300, shoots like it is worth $600, and will make any handgunner a better shot in short order.

In most cases when turning to the .22 Long Rifle as a training replacement for a larger centerfire round like the .45 ACP, shooters will opt for something like a Ruger Mark III, or swap out the guts of the 1911 .45 ACP for a .22 Long Rifle conversion kit. Those options work, but now there is a third option, a dedicated pistol that looks and works just like a 1911, but fires the .22 LR. Chiappa Firearms makes this option affordable, accurate and dependable.

Chiappa Firearms has just introduced the new and innovative Model 1911-22. This is not a reworked .45-caliber weapon, but a handgun built from the frame up as a dead look alike to its big brother the Colt .45 1911 Government. Unlike some other replica firearms, the 1911-22 makes use of its own proprietary “Chiappalloy” frame and steel castings, which moves it well away from the plastic and pot metal guns that are floating around in some circles now a days. This handgun is a gun, and not a reworked paint ball system, or based on a plastic toy.

Chiappa .22LR 1911
For Sale from The Sportsman |

With tactical extender. This gun would easily adapt to a silencer/muffler/suppressor |
https://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/5212/996093148/wm_4330545.jpg

 

[Loomis124]

I am not sure. Asking for help connecting the guns to the movie. IMO, the Ws chose their own, to replicate the movie as closely as possible. Others thoughts?

 

[Cool Cats]

I am not sure. Asking for help connecting the guns to the movie. IMO, the Ws chose their own, to replicate the movie as closely as possible. Others thoughts?

Well, even if the 1911.22 wasn't used in the movie it still is part of the evidence list. No doubt there.

The indictments mention an automatic firearm and the 1911.22 IS a semi automatic handgun.

".....the grand jurors find that the said George Washington Wagner had a firearm that was an automatic firearm....."
More Views

• 
• 

Chiappa 401.038 1911-22 Semi Automatic Handgun .22 LR 5" Barrel 10 Rounds Wood Grips Black Finish 1911-22 BLACK