OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #11

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The thread is slowing down, so let's play a little game.

Other than the obvious who and why, what is the one question you would like to see answered? Here's mine:

Where was Chris Sr. when this all started. Was he staying at Dana's trailer or was he at the 4077 trailer or somewhere else?

TOD on all the victims. Who was shot where (in regards to where on the body) and how many gunshots each vic suffered.
 
The thread is slowing down, so let's play a little game.

Other than the obvious who and why, what is the one question you would like to see answered? Here's mine:

Where was Chris Sr. when this all started. Was he staying at Dana's trailer or was he at the 4077 trailer or somewhere else?

You do know you're in charge of the one question list now, right? :laughing:
 
The thread is slowing down, so let's play a little game.

Other than the obvious who and why, what is the one question you would like to see answered? Here's mine:

Where was Chris Sr. when this all started. Was he staying at Dana's trailer or was he at the 4077 trailer or somewhere else?

Who was shot first, were they beaten up, and shot the most times? I think that's the key.

Well, actually that's three questions in one, but I think they go together. :)
 
My problem with the theory of "Hillbilly Justice" is the fact that an entire family was murdered. My mother grew up in WV coal country and heard plenty of stories of "Hillbilly Justice", but rarely was a whole family targeted for the evils of a few individuals. I have my own ideas about motives, but it is only speculation so I won't waste your time here with my own theories. We will learn, in time, what Law Enforcement knows and go from there.

With the lack of any new information on this case all we can do is speculate and discuss our theories. Please share!
 
The thread is slowing down, so let's play a little game.

Other than the obvious who and why, what is the one question you would like to see answered? Here's mine:

Where was Chris Sr. when this all started. Was he staying at Dana's trailer or was he at the 4077 trailer or somewhere else?

I would like to see the inventory of the evidence collected at the scenes.

ETA: To frame my answer in the form of a question..."what were the pieces of evidence collected at the scene?"
 
I have lurked at WS for years, but this is the first case I have followed since the day of the crime. I have read every thread, read most articles, and have my own theories that I actually haven't seen posted here yet. I live about an hour and a half from Pike/Adams county, and my local media has been linked here many, many times. I grew up in rural PA, so have a fairly good grasp about the way of life in the Rhoden's community.

The thing that's been most interesting in reading all these threads is the some of the commentary on the lifestyle of the victims. I've tried to come up with a way to describe it to my best friend, and "white privilege" doesn't quite stick. I told her it feels like cultural elitism. I know that many people here are just learning about an entirely different way of life than they are used to, but there are a fair amount of posts that leave the realm of learning and stray into judgement. If written about a family of color, many of the things said here about the victims would have resulted in accusations of racism, and rightfully so. People here may not have any idea what it means to be in a cycle of generational poverty, have scarce job opportunities, and limited educational resources. This should be an opportunity to do some research on what life is like for the rural poor, not the chance to stand on a soapbox and wonder "Why all these girls have babies?" There are countless resources available to learn more. Looking at the Rhodens through a white, middle-class suburban/urban lens is just as unfair as looking at people of color through that lens.

And, because everyone is here to get their two cents in,;)
there are a number of things that have come up time and time again that I may have some insight on.

Re: DS and BJM not knowing "street" addresses. Rural mail delivery routes were all given physical "street" addresses over the past few years as emergency services were streamlined. My grandmother has lived on the same road in PA for 55 years. She has an address that I know do not know, and have to look up every time we mail her something. I can tell you how to get to her house, via road names that the locals have used in those hills forever that do not match what the state says they are. If you were on GPS, you'd get lost. It's not a stretch that anyone wouldn't know a road name/number.

Re: all the women in this family are in health care. Well, if you call washing bed pans and giving sponge baths health care, okay. But that's a big leap. Pike County has a CTC school has a "Health Academy" that would earn a student an STNA certificate either while they were in high school, or even if they dropped out. State requirements do not require a diploma, just 75 hours of class and passing the exam. Minimum age is 16, and classes outside the CTC can be completed in 2 weeks. These "health care" jobs pay about $10 an hour.

Re: the turkey hunter would not have been in the woods before first light to hear the shots. My exhusband was a huge hunter. Spring gobbler was his nemesis. Turkey are elusive! He was always in his blind WELL before first light, often leaving around 3:30 AM. Turkeys are easiest at first and last light. Any turkey hunter that was serious absolutely would have been in his blind at 4:00 AM.



The tarps, the cars, the poor spelling, the babies, and the intertwining of families are a part of their culture, just as Starbucks and mini-vans and Target runs are to some of us. When you look at the Rhodens through a sociological lens rather than the one of your own culture, it's easier to see them as people and not simply victims.
 
^^^^MVLM, thanks for your post and welcome to commenting here. I agree with everything you say. I would add that the information about the family growing weed for sale also causes undeserved criticism of them. This practice is now legal in many states and will likely become legal here in Ohio within the next couple of years.

Please feel free to share your theories. We've discussed just about everything here so far.

:welcome4:
 
^^^^MVLM, thanks for your post and welcome to commenting here. I agree with everything you say. I would add that the information about the family growing weed for sale also causes undeserved criticism of them. This practice is now legal in many states and will likely become legal here in Ohio within the next couple of years.

Please feel free to share your theories. We've discussed just about everything here so far.

:welcome4:

I think the growing weed has caused both undeserved and deserved criticism. I personally think it should be legal and they should be able to grow as much as they want. That being said, it isn't legal. The choice to grow it may or may not have contributed to the killings, but it likely involved them in some way into a part of the world that is more dangerous than it would have been previous to their involvement in a cannabis grow. That makes it fair game for some criticism, IMO.
 
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http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/adams-county/multiple-fatalities-confirmed-at-pike-county-home

This went right over my head the first time around. One of the properties is referenced as belonging to a sibling. Is that where Frankie was living?

If you're referring to the R&MW cited in that article, MSW was a first cousin to CRSr & KR on their mother's side, not a sibling.

The do have a sister, BW, who is married to a DW.

The address of 4199 Union Hill Road in Pike County resolves at the Pike County auditor database to R&MW, but it is listed as a delinquent tax account only that dates back to 1998.

If I'm reading the data correctly, I think that tax/penalties were for a mobile home only -- no acreage.

http://www.pike-co.org/

I think that is an address for where FR was living. Can't say for sure if the R&MW tax account is for the mobile home currently located there or not.

The WS poster Dayna understands the property ownership better than I do. IIRC, there is some cloudy data as to who does own that particular real estate.

MW died in 2012. Her obituary and her father's obituary are helpful for lining out some of the family relationships.

http://m.newswatchman.com/obituaries/article_39d07754-af00-5649-8e92-8a1edbf0226a.html?mode=jqm

http://m.legacy.com/obituaries/port...-stone&pid=171244415&referrer=0&preview=false
 
I have lurked at WS for years, but this is the first case I have followed since the day of the crime. I have read every thread, read most articles, and have my own theories that I actually haven't seen posted here yet. I live about an hour and a half from Pike/Adams county, and my local media has been linked here many, many times. I grew up in rural PA, so have a fairly good grasp about the way of life in the Rhoden's community.

The thing that's been most interesting in reading all these threads is the some of the commentary on the lifestyle of the victims. I've tried to come up with a way to describe it to my best friend, and "white privilege" doesn't quite stick. I told her it feels like cultural elitism. I know that many people here are just learning about an entirely different way of life than they are used to, but there are a fair amount of posts that leave the realm of learning and stray into judgement. If written about a family of color, many of the things said here about the victims would have resulted in accusations of racism, and rightfully so. People here may not have any idea what it means to be in a cycle of generational poverty, have scarce job opportunities, and limited educational resources. This should be an opportunity to do some research on what life is like for the rural poor, not the chance to stand on a soapbox and wonder "Why all these girls have babies?" There are countless resources available to learn more. Looking at the Rhodens through a white, middle-class suburban/urban lens is just as unfair as looking at people of color through that lens.

And, because everyone is here to get their two cents in,;)
there are a number of things that have come up time and time again that I may have some insight on.

Re: DS and BJM not knowing "street" addresses. Rural mail delivery routes were all given physical "street" addresses over the past few years as emergency services were streamlined. My grandmother has lived on the same road in PA for 55 years. She has an address that I know do not know, and have to look up every time we mail her something. I can tell you how to get to her house, via road names that the locals have used in those hills forever that do not match what the state says they are. If you were on GPS, you'd get lost. It's not a stretch that anyone wouldn't know a road name/number.

Re: all the women in this family are in health care. Well, if you call washing bed pans and giving sponge baths health care, okay. But that's a big leap. Pike County has a CTC school has a "Health Academy" that would earn a student an STNA certificate either while they were in high school, or even if they dropped out. State requirements do not require a diploma, just 75 hours of class and passing the exam. Minimum age is 16, and classes outside the CTC can be completed in 2 weeks. These "health care" jobs pay about $10 an hour.

Re: the turkey hunter would not have been in the woods before first light to hear the shots. My exhusband was a huge hunter. Spring gobbler was his nemesis. Turkey are elusive! He was always in his blind WELL before first light, often leaving around 3:30 AM. Turkeys are easiest at first and last light. Any turkey hunter that was serious absolutely would have been in his blind at 4:00 AM.



The tarps, the cars, the poor spelling, the babies, and the intertwining of families are a part of their culture, just as Starbucks and mini-vans and Target runs are to some of us. When you look at the Rhodens through a sociological lens rather than the one of your own culture, it's easier to see them as people and not simply victims.

Great post! Thank you for your insight! I agree! Welcome to Websleuths!
 
If you're referring to the R&MW cited in that article, MSW was a first cousin to CRSr & KR on their mother's side, not a sibling.

The do have a sister, BW, who is married to a DW.

The address of 4199 Union Hill Road in Pike County resolves at the Pike County auditor database to R&MW, but it is listed as a delinquent tax account only that dates back to 1998.

If I'm reading the data correctly, I think that tax/penalties were for a mobile home only -- no acreage.

http://www.pike-co.org/

I think that is an address for where FR was living. Can't say for sure if the R&MW tax account is for the mobile home currently located there or not.

The WS poster Dayna understands the property ownership better than I do. IIRC, there is some cloudy data as to who does own that particular real estate.

MW died in 2012. Her obituary and her father's obituary are helpful for lining out some of the family relationships.

http://m.newswatchman.com/obituaries/article_39d07754-af00-5649-8e92-8a1edbf0226a.html?mode=jqm

http://m.legacy.com/obituaries/port...-stone&pid=171244415&referrer=0&preview=false

My head is anywhere but here. You are so right. I'm going to edit my post. Just giving you a head's up.
 
Been following from the beginning, but this is my first post, so please bear with me--

I want to start out by saying the way this family was judged, and then just as quickly forgotten, by the media is beyond sad; but, it’s not nearly as sad as what’s going on online and on social media. Ugh. Thanks for keeping it civil here on WS.

Yes, this family is big and super close with complicated relationships, and houses within miles of each other…. were known to break up and get back together every few years. Yes, some had kids out of wedlock, appear to have “dated around,” and may have been magnets for drama.

Hmm…sounds a lot like another American family we all know and love—the Kardashians! Just because they do it in better shoes, with fleets of shiny cars in front of their homes, rather than a yard full of rusty metal heaps, that makes it cool? There are plenty of people from all walks of life (and all tax brackets, for that matter) who have complicated and less-than-perfect personal lives. However, when Appalachian people do it—it’s “trashy.” When wealthy people do it, it’s “interesting gossip.” And when celebrities do it, it’s Tuesday…but I digress….

Ok, got that off my chest! Now, in regards to the case, I would like to point out a few things I’ve been pondering:

1. The dogs—I think this is getting blown WAY out of proportion. The only info we have about them is from LM, who said “they’d eat you up.” But we don’t even know if they were inside the house. With a days-old baby in such a small living space, I would say it’s doubtful they were inside. Firstly, because you’d want to avoid their barking waking the baby, and, secondly, because of safety. (Aggressive, big dog + newborn baby = not recommended). Even if these dogs were outside and barked at an intruder, these dogs are country dogs that probably barked at everything. So I do not find LM’s statements sufficient evidence to assume the killers were known to the family. My dog knows my mailman, but still barks bloody murder every single day when he comes to the door.

2. The number of/location of the gunshot wounds—all we know from the coroner’s report is the following: The Hamilton County coroner said the victims – three women, four men and a 16-year-old boy – had wounds to their heads, torso and other parts of the body. Dr. Lakshmi Sammarco said one victim had a single wound, one had two wounds, and the rest had three or more. The report didn’t specify which victim had which number of wounds. Some victims showed “signs of soft tissue bruising,” her report stated.

She didn’t say EVERYONE had GSWs to the torso, legs, etc….or everyone had been badly beaten. Instead vaguely stated they had wounds to various parts of their body. (Is "vague" the theme of this case, or what??)

1 victim: 1 GSW
1 victim: 2 GSW
2 victims: 3 GSW
1 victim: 4 GSW
2 victims: 5 GSW
1 victim: 9 GSW

For all we know, only ONE or TWO people had wounds to various parts of the body. Perhaps, this person was fleeing and/or put up some sort of fight? Thus, requiring multiple shots to take down?

So far, two family members have leaked details about the manner of death of their loved ones and the location of the GSWs— DS stated that [KR] was lying in bed with a gunshot wound (presumably to the head, due to his statement “he had blood in his eyes), and another family member stated GR had “3 gunshot wounds to the back of the head.” All of this must be taken with a grain of salt, but still, as it stands now, the trend seems to be direct, deliberate kill shots.

It has been speculated one of victim was found near the woods, presumably trying to flee. If that is the case, 9 GSWs in various parts of the body makes sense. And/or 9 shots from afar to ensure him/her was indeed dead. Or, 9 shots could simply be someone emptying their clip. We just don’t know.

IMO, I don’t think a lot of time was spent at each crime scene, or that any torture (as it’s been speculated) took place. From the very beginning, “execution-style” has been emphasized by the AG and the MSM. This, to me, implies deliberate kill-shots on defenseless individuals. Other phrases like “carefully planned” and “sophisticated operation” imply these killers were not messing around.

IMO these killers were doing a “job” and were in and out FAST. They had a lot to do that night; why dilly dally? I feel the number of shots implies nothing more than the fact that the shooter(s) wanted to ensure these people were dead—no survivors.

IMO, this wasn’t a robbery—if it was a robbery, and so much time was spent casing the family and their daily comings and goings, why not just rob them when they weren’t home? Why take the risk of dealing with/torturing/attempting to kill so many people at once? Do you know how hard that is to pull off and not get caught/killed during the process?

IMO, this has to do with cars— the $$ in the “junk car” business is huge. So far it’s been confirmed by MSM 18 cars were towed last Tuesday, and presumably more the next day. That's a lot of cars from outside when the crime is murder by gunshot inside a residence...

Lastly, I find it interesting that an accused chop-shop-mastermind was on trial for an alleged murder-for-hire plot at the same time these murders took place. (http://www.examiner.org/news/64927-case-detective-details-investigation) Not accusing anyone, simply pointing out the irony, and that a hired hit man/men is one theory for this case that shouldn’t be discounted.
 
My head is anywhere but here. You are so right. I'm going to edit my post. Just giving you a head's up.

Totally understandable. Big family and eight people murdered. Four residences.

Very little information released by investigators.

Definitely has my head spinning at times. :)
 
^^^^MVLM, thanks for your post and welcome to commenting here. I agree with everything you say. I would add that the information about the family growing weed for sale also causes undeserved criticism of them. This practice is now legal in many states and will likely become legal here in Ohio within the next couple of years.

Please feel free to share your theories. We've discussed just about everything here so far.

:welcome4:



Thank you! Regarding the "grow op"--I am dubious, and I don't think I have seen anyone else say that either. I didn't have a favorable opinion of DeWine going into this, and it hasn't changed much. I think the pot is a red herring...there may be some, but not to the level that he has said. 200 plants? Maybe. But "sophisticated" feels like a stretch to me. I feel like the pot is being used to take some of the heat off LE...it alters public perception of the victims to a degree (Hey, Jeff Ruby, why don't you set up trust funds for those three kids??), makes the community think that LE is working on bringing a whole bunch of people down, explaining the delays, and possibly also takes some heat of Reader for the shatter thing. But again, that all JMO.

I have absolutely no way to back this up, so no one ask for links! Ha! But, MOO: The Highwaymen and the Iron Horsemen both have a presence in OH and KY, and have had turf wars in the past. Given the proximity to the US 23, it's plausible that The Highwaymen use that route for trafficking. My former husband worked for a MC in the mid 90s (he was a tattoo artist in their shop) and drugs were not the only thing they dealt in. I am connecting the cars to a chop shop operation and the chop shop to the Highwaymen.The cars may have also been used to transport drugs--not being driven, but towed. Drugs stashed in the cars. So, either something happened with CRsr and KR and their Highwaymen connection, OR something happened between the Iron Horsemen and the Highwaymen, which led the Iron Horseman to the Rhodens.

I think everyone in the family knew about the pot, mostly because it wasn't a big deal operation.I think only CRsr, KR, and GR knew about the bigger thing. An MC would never kill a child, which is where this all started for me.

Obviously, this is all convoluted, and very much JMO.
 
Been following from the beginning, but this is my first post, so please bear with me--

I want to start out by saying the way this family was judged, and then just as quickly forgotten, by the media is beyond sad; but, it’s not nearly as sad as what’s going on online and on social media. Ugh. Thanks for keeping it civil here on WS.

Yes, this family is big and super close with complicated relationships, and houses within miles of each other…. were known to break up and get back together every few years. Yes, some had kids out of wedlock, appear to have “dated around,” and may have been magnets for drama.

Hmm…sounds a lot like another American family we all know and love—the Kardashians! Just because they do it in better shoes, with fleets of shiny cars in front of their homes, rather than a yard full of rusty metal heaps, that makes it cool? There are plenty of people from all walks of life (and all tax brackets, for that matter) who have complicated and less-than-perfect personal lives. However, when Appalachian people do it—it’s “trashy.” When wealthy people do it, it’s “interesting gossip.” And when celebrities do it, it’s Tuesday…but I digress….

Ok, got that off my chest! Now, in regards to the case, I would like to point out a few things I’ve been pondering:

1. The dogs—I think this is getting blown WAY out of proportion. The only info we have about them is from LM, who said “they’d eat you up.” But we don’t even know if they were inside the house. With a days-old baby in such a small living space, I would say it’s doubtful they were inside. Firstly, because you’d want to avoid their barking waking the baby, and, secondly, because of safety. (Aggressive, big dog + newborn baby = not recommended). Even if these dogs were outside and barked at an intruder, these dogs are country dogs that probably barked at everything. So I do not find LM’s statements sufficient evidence to assume the killers were known to the family. My dog knows my mailman, but still barks bloody murder every single day when he comes to the door.

2. The number of/location of the gunshot wounds—all we know from the coroner’s report is the following: The Hamilton County coroner said the victims – three women, four men and a 16-year-old boy – had wounds to their heads, torso and other parts of the body. Dr. Lakshmi Sammarco said one victim had a single wound, one had two wounds, and the rest had three or more. The report didn’t specify which victim had which number of wounds. Some victims showed “signs of soft tissue bruising,” her report stated.

She didn’t say EVERYONE had GSWs to the torso, legs, etc….or everyone had been badly beaten. Instead vaguely stated they had wounds to various parts of their body. (Is "vague" the theme of this case, or what??)

1 victim: 1 GSW
1 victim: 2 GSW
2 victims: 3 GSW
1 victim: 4 GSW
2 victims: 5 GSW
1 victim: 9 GSW

For all we know, only ONE or TWO people had wounds to various parts of the body. Perhaps, this person was fleeing and/or put up some sort of fight? Thus, requiring multiple shots to take down?

So far, two family members have leaked details about the manner of death of their loved ones and the location of the GSWs— DS stated that [KR] was lying in bed with a gunshot wound (presumably to the head, due to his statement “he had blood in his eyes), and another family member stated GR had “3 gunshot wounds to the back of the head.” All of this must be taken with a grain of salt, but still, as it stands now, the trend seems to be direct, deliberate kill shots.

It has been speculated one of victim was found near the woods, presumably trying to flee. If that is the case, 9 GSWs in various parts of the body makes sense. And/or 9 shots from afar to ensure him/her was indeed dead. Or, 9 shots could simply be someone emptying their clip. We just don’t know.

IMO, I don’t think a lot of time was spent at each crime scene, or that any torture (as it’s been speculated) took place. From the very beginning, “execution-style” has been emphasized by the AG and the MSM. This, to me, implies deliberate kill-shots on defenseless individuals. Other phrases like “carefully planned” and “sophisticated operation” imply these killers were not messing around.

IMO these killers were doing a “job” and were in and out FAST. They had a lot to do that night; why dilly dally? I feel the number of shots implies nothing more than the fact that the shooter(s) wanted to ensure these people were dead—no survivors.

IMO, this wasn’t a robbery—if it was a robbery, and so much time was spent casing the family and their daily comings and goings, why not just rob them when they weren’t home? Why take the risk of dealing with/torturing/attempting to kill so many people at once? Do you know how hard that is to pull off and not get caught/killed during the process?

IMO, this has to do with cars— the $$ in the “junk car” business is huge. So far it’s been confirmed by MSM 18 cars were towed last Tuesday, and presumably more the next day. That's a lot of cars from outside when the crime is murder by gunshot inside a residence...

Lastly, I find it interesting that an accused chop-shop-mastermind was on trial for an alleged murder-for-hire plot at the same time these murders took place. (http://www.examiner.org/news/64927-case-detective-details-investigation) Not accusing anyone, simply pointing out the irony, and that a hired hit man/men is one theory for this case that shouldn’t be discounted.

This is a really great post. Thanks. I agree with your robbery assessment - why rob when everyone is home? Also, I am not sure as some are that the killers were intimately familiar with the comings and goings of the family. They came in the dead of night, when people are very likely to be there. That doesn't imply knowledge of schedules, but the opposite the way I see it. I also very much agree that this was done fast and methodically. I envision two shooters. If the rumor that one person was running for the woods when shot is true that would have been the one place where there were three victims. Maybe that was not expected - you take target on right I take target on left, kill. Next house. In one house a third got out and ran for it before being taken down..? The dogs are a question, but if they were chained up and not running loose and you are planning on executing all the adults, who cares if they bark?

I think this was a hit of some kind. Not personal. No idea why or who, just theories. Thanks for your interesting post. All this is JMO. :)
 
Thank you! Regarding the "grow op"--I am dubious, and I don't think I have seen anyone else say that either. I didn't have a favorable opinion of DeWine going into this, and it hasn't changed much. I think the pot is a red herring...there may be some, but not to the level that he has said. 200 plants? Maybe. But "sophisticated" feels like a stretch to me. I feel like the pot is being used to take some of the heat off LE...it alters public perception of the victims to a degree (Hey, Jeff Ruby, why don't you set up trust funds for those three kids??), makes the community think that LE is working on bringing a whole bunch of people down, explaining the delays, and possibly also takes some heat of Reader for the shatter thing. But again, that all JMO.

I have absolutely no way to back this up, so no one ask for links! Ha! But, MOO: The Highwaymen and the Iron Horsemen both have a presence in OH and KY, and have had turf wars in the past. Given the proximity to the US 23, it's plausible that The Highwaymen use that route for trafficking. My former husband worked for a MC in the mid 90s (he was a tattoo artist in their shop) and drugs were not the only thing they dealt in. I am connecting the cars to a chop shop operation and the chop shop to the Highwaymen.The cars may have also been used to transport drugs--not being driven, but towed. Drugs stashed in the cars. So, either something happened with CRsr and KR and their Highwaymen connection, OR something happened between the Iron Horsemen and the Highwaymen, which led the Iron Horseman to the Rhodens.

I think everyone in the family knew about the pot, mostly because it wasn't a big deal operation.I think only CRsr, KR, and GR knew about the bigger thing. An MC would never kill a child, which is where this all started for me.

Obviously, this is all convoluted, and very much JMO.

Wait! You lost me. Or maybe I am just dumb but what the heck is the Highwaymen and the Iron Horsemen and what is a MC?
 
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