OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #18

[rsd1200]

rsd, I live in an older model double wide, and with age, shifting of ground and ordinary ware and tare, my walls have become paper thin. They didn't build as well as they do today. (mine is a 1999) and you can hear a conversation outside if it is going on inside, especially if your by a window. And the windows were open at 2 of the locations, would that make a difference?

It would, however, you also have to factor in that there is wind to carry the sound different directions, as well as trees and mountainous areas to block and muffle the sound. I know what you mean about the being able to hear what's going on outside, from within, your trailer, but the further you walk away from your trailer, the less likely you are to make out what's being said, and then not even be able to hear it at all, b/c of those different factors. The gunshot is the same way. Sound won't carry far with all of those things at play plus being contained by a room, with more rooms and items for it to bounce off of. What sound does escape will be diminished by the outside effects, and will make it harder for the person who did hear the gunshot, to determine where it came from and how far away it was. I hope I explained that right.

 

[glf]

True, D's statements can be interpreted several different ways. What really bothers me is the friend who thought D was being stalked. I can't follow things on FB because I have just refused to be a part of that junk. From seeing things that are posted by people close to my kids ages, people use the site to air their differences. I don't do "moma drama". My daughter and her husband used to have spats over their cell phones. I finally told her they ought to get rid of them, the first time there would be an argument over cell phones between me and her dad, they would both go in the trash. Now my husband has to have a cell phone for his job, (he's a truck driver) but we foot the bill. I have a trachphone, and tell everybody to call the house first, then call my cell if I 'm not home. My husband spends more for his phone than the home phone and my cell together on a monthly basis. Couples have a home phone, then it's THEIR phone, not his and hers, so it doesn't matter who answers it. Not nearly as stressful as a cell phone.
And look at all the baloney on Hanna's and Chris's FB pages. Gives new meaning to "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen)!

 

[amauet1]

I understand. I've been around a lot of that too. Never was addicted but know others who were, and are, and the paranoia, and drama, that goes with it. Paranoia I can see, for growers and users, and I saw their lives as very drama filled as well. But, I just didn't see them as feeling that they were on high alert, as in, about to be murdered type of high alert though, which is how I read your post. I wasn't offended by your post, I just responded w/my opinion. Hope I didn't offend you either.

No, no offense at all. I just meant that they were being "watchful" because of the pot and arguments the "boys" had been in lately. My "wording" was off. I truly enjoy your posts and agree with most of them. Different ways of thinking and opinions are what make the world go round.

 

[amauet1]

Amuet1. I think you were VERY polite! I was correcting another poster who associated the term "high alert" as something you posted. I was pointing out to the poster that the term you used in your post was "on alert". Not directed toward you at all.

I know, thank you!

 

[amauet1]

It would, however, you also have to factor in that there is wind to carry the sound different directions, as well as trees and mountainous areas to block and muffle the sound. I know what you mean about the being able to hear what's going on outside, from within, your trailer, but the further you walk away from your trailer, the less likely you are to make out what's being said, and then not even be able to hear it at all, b/c of those different factors. The gunshot is the same way. Sound won't carry far with all of those things at play plus being contained by a room, with more rooms and items for it to bounce off of. What sound does escape will be diminished by the outside effects, and will make it harder for the person who did hear the gunshot, to determine where it came from and how far away it was. I hope I explained that right.

Wouldn't you think a gun being shot inside would be pretty loud?

 

[rsd1200]

True, D's statements can be interpreted several different ways. What really bothers me is the friend who thought D was being stalked. I can't follow things on FB because I have just refused to be a part of that junk. From seeing things that are posted by people close to my kids ages, people use the site to air their differences. I don't do "moma drama". My daughter and her husband used to have spats over their cell phones. I finally told her they ought to get rid of them, the first time there would be an argument over cell phones between me and her dad, they would both go in the trash. Now my husband has to have a cell phone for his job, (he's a truck driver) but we foot the bill. I have a trachphone, and tell everybody to call the house first, then call my cell if I 'm not home. My husband spends more for his phone than the home phone and my cell together on a monthly basis. Couples have a home phone, then it's THEIR phone, not his and hers, so it doesn't matter who answers it. Not nearly as stressful as a cell phone.
And look at all the baloney on Hanna's and Chris's FB pages. Gives new meaning to "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen)!

Yeah, ya gotta have thick skin to be on FB or any internet site really. It's a jungle out there! I kind of took the "stalker' comment to mean a FB stalker. I've had some friends on FB who had those kinds of "stalkers". They were very annoying, and they took notice of them, but they mainly went away if they ignored them.

 

[amauet1]

Yeah, ya gotta have thick skin to be on FB or any internet site really. It's a jungle out there! I kind of took the "stalker' comment to mean a FB stalker. I've had some friends on FB who had those kinds of "stalkers". They were very annoying, and they took notice of them, but they mainly went away if they ignored them.

I'm on FB, but I don't post really personal things, my kids do. My youngest even posted her engagement on FB before she "told" me! lol. I like it to see pictures and keep up with extended family, but that's all I use it for. I don't own a cell-phone, I lived without one and don't see any reason (for me) for one other than other than to use them in case of an emergency.

 

[amauet1]

I agree. "High alert" seems like hyperbole. Has anyone in the family described the victims as fearing for their lives before the murders?

Hi, I didn't say "high alert" I said "on alert" and I have tried to apologize for my "wording" of my post.

 

[rsd1200]

Wouldn't you think a gun being shot inside would be pretty loud?

It would be extremely loud in the interior of the trailers (or any home). Loud enough that the assailant(s) would probably be deafened for a bit if they were not wearing ear protection of some type. But, whatever sound did escape the trailers would still become muted by wind direction, the wooded area, and the mountains. When the already diminished sound waves that did escape the trailer hit other objects, or were carried by the breeze, it would diminish them even further. Most likely CR1 & GR never heard the shots at FR's and HG's trailer, or vice versa, depending on who was murdered first. If so it would have most likely been so diminished they'd not recognized them as gun shots. The sound would have to escape one trailer, then enter another, through only an open window. Unless the windows were open facing one another, the sound waves would not make turns. I'm pulling this from distant memory so I hope I'm explaining it correctly (and right). Think about dropping a pebble in an aquarium. The water will wave out, hit the sides and ripple back. Some may find a leak or go over the edge but for the most part it just bounces back. Sound waves are much the same but we hear them. Some will escape but the further they go and the more things they hit the more their sound diminishes. In other words, the turkey hunter would have had to have been extremely close to hear the gunshot in a trailer (from my understanding of sound waves). I'm no expert on this at all though. I may have a link that may explain it better. Let me look to see if I've still got it bookmarked.

 

[rsd1200]

Wouldn't you think a gun being shot inside would be pretty loud?

Here are a couple of links that explains it far better than me.



http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/recognizing-the-sound-of-gunfire

http://filename=facility_mngmnt/design/designing_and.htm&CAT=Facility Management

 

[jk204]

I know that many of you will struggle with that order which seems inconsistent with the cartel theory. But it is totally consistent with another one.

May I suggest we organize our thoughts and start storyboarding the case along 3 TRACKS to the case as per the discussions on this thread:

1) the business / cartel track: 1 or several killers. business/criminal motive related to drugs or other activity. ruthless but still rational.
2) the extended family track: 1 gunman very close from the family, lone male, probably single given night crime. planned but personal. motive is irrational like often in family killings. usual ends with suicide, but not here.
3) the serial killer track: lone killer. knows family, but not necessarily a member. has done it before in the area and will repeat.

I am on the "extended family track". Recent contributions I have made are related. In the coming days I will continue to develop it and I look forward to your ideas.

cheers. JK

Hi All, I said I'd be back with a scenario where killer is a relative.

WHY sleuth on this scenario? I don't discard the scenario of drug related murders, but most often in America, family mass murders are committed by relative. There is nothing in this case yet that excludes it.

PART 1

SUSPECT: most often - male, lone perp, likes guns, distressed.
- history of violence sometimes with a record.
- immaturity in dealing with anger. Higher probability below 30 than above.

Particular to this case:
- probably single given night time crime
- probably strong man since he fought physically CRSr

MOTIVE: Totally Irrational. Sleuths, no need to over rationalize this scenario. There have been cases where motive was hatred, breakups, envy, humiliation, custody disputes...

For a single man, I would be looking at relationship with the women of the family and males protecting them.

The outstanding event here is HR giving birth and bringing her baby home. In the "crazy relative" scenario, it is not a small detail.

Stay tuned for part 2

 

[rsd1200]

I'm on FB, but I don't post really personal things, my kids do. My youngest even posted her engagement on FB before she "told" me! lol. I like it to see pictures and keep up with extended family, but that's all I use it for. I don't own a cell-phone, I lived without one and don't see any reason (for me) for one other than other than to use them in case of an emergency.

I have FB, but mostly post to a very few close friends/family. I try to keep it cheerful, positive, and stay away from hotbed topics. I do not understand why people post Public, or about their private lives. I do have a cell phone but I avoid talking on it unless it is a have to case. I can usually say what I need to say in a few texts. If it's what I consider private, I'll make a call, b/c "Write it regret it". lol

 

[sumzero]

True, D's statements can be interpreted several different ways. What really bothers me is the friend who thought D was being stalked. I can't follow things on FB because I have just refused to be a part of that junk. From seeing things that are posted by people close to my kids ages, people use the site to air their differences. I don't do "moma drama". My daughter and her husband used to have spats over their cell phones. I finally told her they ought to get rid of them, the first time there would be an argument over cell phones between me and her dad, they would both go in the trash. Now my husband has to have a cell phone for his job, (he's a truck driver) but we foot the bill. I have a trachphone, and tell everybody to call the house first, then call my cell if I 'm not home. My husband spends more for his phone than the home phone and my cell together on a monthly basis. Couples have a home phone, then it's THEIR phone, not his and hers, so it doesn't matter who answers it. Not nearly as stressful as a cell phone.
And look at all the baloney on Hanna's and Chris's FB pages. Gives new meaning to "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen)!

I don't know if there's another source for the alleged "stalking". But here's the CNN transcript where it is mentioned: http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1604/24/cnr.04.html It seems to me that "stalking" might be imprecise (as the CNN analyst suggests). Dana's friend seems to have concluded, in retrospect, that Dana was being "stalked" because the killer(s) had to know when she would be home from work.

 

[jk204]

Hi All, I said I'd be back with a scenario where killer is a relative.

WHY sleuth on this scenario? I don't discard the scenario of drug related murders, but most often in America, family mass murders are committed by relative. There is nothing in this case yet that excludes it.

PART 1

SUSPECT: most often - male, lone perp, likes guns, distressed.
- history of violence sometimes with a record.
- immaturity in dealing with anger. Higher probability below 30 than above.

Particular to this case:
- probably single given night time crime
- probably strong man since he fought physically CRSr

MOTIVE: Totally Irrational. Sleuths, no need to over rationalize this scenario. There have been cases where motive was hatred, breakups, envy, humiliation, custody disputes...

For a single man, I would be looking at relationship with the women of the family and males protecting them.

The outstanding event here is HR giving birth and bringing her baby home. In the "crazy relative" scenario, it is not a small detail.

Stay tuned for part 2

Extended Family Track - PART 2

In this scenario killer is a relative with irrational motive

SEQUENCE OF EVENTS:
In a earlier post dating 6-25-16 on thread #18, I described order of killing. Here are the underlying assumptions of the scenario:

1. People killed in their bed were killed first and others woke up to the noise.
- so HR was killed first at DR
- FR and HHG were killed before their neighbours CRSr and GR.
2. The assaillant faced 2 men - CRSr and GR. It is fair to assume he shot one (GR) and and the other tried to disarm him. This would explain CRSr wounds in the torso and extremities
3. It is possible that the victims who were up (DR+CRjr , CRSr+GR) let the perp come in since he is known.
4. The dogs knew the assaillant, could have barked a bit, but did not attack in this scenario.

THE INVESTIGATION:

Often family mass murders end with suicide of the assaillant. In those cases, they are easy to solve. This one is different.

Early in the investigation, LE would be able to distinguish the scenario I am describing from a drug related case targeting CRSr and GR with crime scene and autopsy. So, IMO, LEO know already what they dealing with.

In this scenario, it would be fair to assume that the suspect has been interviewed and that LE has an eye on him.

In past postings, I have made the point that it is difficult to establish proof when the suspect is a regular of the homes. The investigation would focus on hard evidence: weapon, DNA under the nails for victims who fought, victims blood on suspect clothes. Without any, it is a difficult case.

LE could place the suspect under surveillance. Provide no info. Put a bit of pressure on the family and watch for the mistake.

It is particularly difficult here to establish a case to convict beyond a reasonable doubt given all the different criminal angles of this case.

GROW OP: Circumstancial

This is a family that lived free and with few rules. How justice is made in this environment? How problems are solved? In this scenario, the grow op is just a symptom, not the cause.

 

[GeeEm]

BJM has been with the Rhoden family for a long time. I think it was Tony Rhoden who said that once your part of their family, your a family member for life. She and a couple of other Manleys are mentioned in Clarence Rhoden's obit. Listed there just like you would mention all of the extended family in any obit. She was considered part of the Rhoden family, probably shortly after CR1 and Dana started dating.

It seems she was around to "help" where ever she was needed. So it would seem she was part of the inner circle of this family and would know a lot about them, either by them confiding in her, or just by people talking to her in confidence. She said she helped "bring up" CR1 and Dana's children and was helping Frankie and Hanna with their little ones. She was after all " Aunt Jo". Family helps family, so I'm not surprised that she was there a lot.

Kenneth was " on alert", Dana was "on alert", Frankie was "on alert". They "knew" something was up, and I believe so did BJM. The "hunter said he heard shots around 4am and because this was "well planned" I think the preps had their own "time line" to get all this done. I don't think it took much more than an hour to get it all done. So IMO all this started around 3am. All this is JMO.

I think that poor woman knows something and is scared out of her wits she will be next. She's between a rock and a hard place, wanting to help, but scared to. Again JMO.

Where is the info that K,D, F were "on alert"?

I've been following this case since 4/22 and have never seen anything that said those three were "on alert." DR's FB post on the BH memorial page was the only indicator something was up.

No offense, but I don't recall seeing you here before the past week or so. Many of the things you've asked have been covered extensively and are easily answered by reading up on the media page. Also, some of what you've said doesn't have anything to back it up, so I'm not sure where you are coming from...it's one thing to have a hunch, but if you are making blanket statements about the victims' mind-sets, it would be nice to have a link or source. JMO, of course.

Agree. ☝🏻
Can you provide us with with the links to confirm
your sources? Please, not trying to sound snarky

 

[GeeEm]

I guess my assumption would be if you had grow ops on your property, security cameras make sense. Granted I don't know any drug producers, but they do seem to be on the cutting edge of technology. Survellance cameras don't actually eliminate crime, since footage is viewed after the fact, so to me don't mean "high alert." If you are in fear of getting robbed, cameras help determine who did it. If you are in fear of getting killed, cameras done do squat except help LE.

High alert to me is people taking shifts and walking the perimeter armed, and certainly not posting personal pictures and whereabouts on Facebook regularly as DR, CRjr, FR, HMR, and HHG all did. I don't see high alert here. I see KR mad because he was robbed and CRsr protecting his crop. And of course that's all speculation based on MHO, no links or evidence.

I have been following this case from the beginning and I don't recall anything about "high alert".

If the deceased victims thought something was wrong wouldn't they have phoned the LE? JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

References to someone hearing gunshots did NOT come from MSM or LE and is therefore considered rumor and is off-limits (as previously advised by Mods/Admin). Posts containing such reference have been either removed or edited. Please do not discuss it as it is not considered fact from an official source.

Also folks .. please watch your quotes to ensure they appear correctly. It is very time-consuming for Mods to go back and fix them all up. If you see a broken quote, please Alert on it immediately so they aren't as difficult to track down as to who really said what.

:tyou:

 

[amauet1]

It would be extremely loud in the interior of the trailers (or any home). Loud enough that the assailant(s) would probably be deafened for a bit if they were not wearing ear protection of some type. But, whatever sound did escape the trailers would still become muted by wind direction, the wooded area, and the mountains. When the already diminished sound waves that did escape the trailer hit other objects, or were carried by the breeze, it would diminish them even further. Most likely CR1 & GR never heard the shots at FR's and HG's trailer, or vice versa, depending on who was murdered first. If so it would have most likely been so diminished they'd not recognized them as gun shots. The sound would have to escape one trailer, then enter another, through only an open window. Unless the windows were open facing one another, the sound waves would not make turns. I'm pulling this from distant memory so I hope I'm explaining it correctly (and right). Think about dropping a pebble in an aquarium. The water will wave out, hit the sides and ripple back. Some may find a leak or go over the edge but for the most part it just bounces back. Sound waves are much the same but we hear them. Some will escape but the further they go and the more things they hit the more their sound diminishes. In other words, the turkey hunter would have had to have been extremely close to hear the gunshot in a trailer (from my understanding of sound waves). I'm no expert on this at all though. I may have a link that may explain it better. Let me look to see if I've still got it bookmarked.

Another reason I asked is the 3 yr. old child that was asleep on the couch. Now maybe he did sleep through it and maybe he didn't. That had to be loud as you said and if the child did wake up, maybe someone he knew soothed him back to sleep.

 

[GanoGano1]

Ummmm--not sure that a reward could tip the balance. I would suggest that it's not loyalty, but danger that keeps voices silent.

Considering how widespread the investigation is, and all possibilities, I think only a moron would put an award out. Way too dangerous IMO

 

[GanoGano1]

Another reason I asked is the 3 yr. old child that was asleep on the couch. Now maybe he did sleep through it and maybe he didn't. That had to be loud as you said and if the child did wake up, maybe someone he knew soothed him back to sleep.

I have a 4 year old. And IMO, that child was able to say, with the help of a trained professionals, plenty to keep them busy. No way he didn't hear the shots. .....or commotion. IMO