OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #20

[CSIDreamer]

That's what the link was referring to, there is no Crime Stoppers for Pike County. What I understood was, that any reward money for Pike, would probably have come from community businesses, and advertised through the LE dept., and not have been donated through Crime Stoppers. I'd hope I would do the right thing to, but, I'd also want to do the safe thing for my own family. If the person(s) walked or had deeper ties in the community it could be my family next.

So basically, crime stoppers (pretty much nationwide/worldwide) really have to spread out what capital they have over "x" number of crimes?

 

[GTAWmom]

What wasn't confirmed?

If any were asleep. The only statements I have heard is they appeared to have been asleep.

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[Jax49]

I was just reading about running tests on fluid out of the eye. I wonder if adrenaline is present in that fluid.

I got the same impression from LE. It sounds like 5 or 6 of them were asleep. I've never really figured out from the scant details if Dana was in bed or not.

I just learned more about that fluid than I ever wanted to know. Not that it answers your question. "Vitreous fluid is ideal for postmortem chemical analysis, as it is relatively isolated from blood and other body fluids that are affected by postmortem changes such as redistribution and hemoconcentration."

 

[Jax49]

So basically, crime stoppers (pretty much nationwide/worldwide) really have to spread out what capital they have over "x" number of crimes?

That's the way I understand it. Most of the rewards I see are under 10 grand. Not enough money to go around, so I really don't think there will be any mega rewards, even with a case this big.

 

[Dudly]

Someone mentioned whether or not a determination can be made if someone was asleep at TOD.
I DON'T HAVE a link and although I'm an RN, I don't even pretend to know the science about TOD.
But when I think about it, someone who is laying in bed just PRETENDING to be asleep would have tons of adrenaline from the fear alone. Their heart would probably be beating very strong, pulse racing and palpable. This may result in a lot more blood leaving the body with a lot more force. Maybe more rapid blood loss? Whereas someone was REALLY asleep, heart would be normal, no fear or adrenaline, and blood loss or spatter might be minimal.
Like I said ONLY a thought. NO scientific or link otherwise. Just lots of time to ponder stuff with no new news.

Sounds logical to me...

 

[rsd1200]

Note when listening to press releases the words "targeted while" and "appeared to be" and words like those. That does not show definate knowledge to. If you didnt hear it from official authorities or read it in an official report it is not official word. Medias job is to sell emotions. If you can clarify by providing a link on either Sheriff Reader or AG Dewine making statements stating on where any victims were locatated at the TOD or if in fact if one, some, or all were sleeping at TOD it would be much appreciated as with any of the other statements I have made. I would be happy to stand corrected. I dont know if you can be absolute in knowing if a victim is actually sleeping at TOD.

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That may never be known as to their sleeping status. However, seeing that this happened after 10:30 at FR & HG's home, and after midnight at DR's home, and before 5:30-7:00 a.m., on a weekday, it's likely that that, as Dewine stated, some (FR, HG, KR, and HR at least) were in bed, and probably sleeping or they'd have gotten up when hearing people coming into their home. They were all shot multiple times in the head, except for KR. Even if they were awake, it still turned out the same for them. These were folks who were not unfamiliar with firearms too, nor, I'd guess, were afraid to use them on someone who came creeping into their homes. KR was rumored to have slept w/his nearby. That's why I feel they went in at night, to catch them off guard, and asleep in their beds, b/c they didn't want to get killed trying to kill them. They knew what they were doing. They knew the Rhoden family's patterns. They didn't take a chance they'd be up watching Jimmy Fallon. They did "target" them. They scouted them out, like a hunter scouts out deer.

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Investigators-Several-dead-at-Pike-County-Ohio-home-376728131.html

 

[glf]

I just learned more about that fluid than I ever wanted to know. Not that it answers your question. "Vitreous fluid is ideal for postmortem chemical analysis, as it is relatively isolated from blood and other body fluids that are affected by postmortem changes such as redistribution and hemoconcentration."

Sounds like it would be beneficial to test tears I know that is an excellent way to measure sodium and potassium. And I once saw a program where people watched a sad movie and collected tears In a bottle, and people who were dealing with something personal, tears from sadness and stress, it was proven there was different levels of substances between the two separate groups.

 

[Jax49]

Any guesses on the chances of the press getting the autopsy reports released? Personally, I think they have a good shot at it.

 

[rsd1200]

So basically, crime stoppers (pretty much nationwide/worldwide) really have to spread out what capital they have over "x" number of crimes?

Crime Stoppers is a non-profit organization. Not all of them belong to the main branch (crime stoppers usa) and are responsible for raising the funds and disbursing rewards. The reward in the Rhoden case is not through Crime Stoppers from what I understand.

 

[glf]

Crime Stoppers is a non-profit organization. Not all of them belong to the main branch (crime stoppers usa) and are responsible for raising the funds and disbursing rewards. The reward in the Rhoden case is not through Crime Stoppers from what I understand.

I think-don't quote me on this, I read on the Ohio or So. Ohio Crime Stoppers that the rewards are put together with private donations. This was a day or so after the news on the Rhoden reward was announced

 

[glf]

Y'all forgive me, I'm dealing with a crummy headache, and I think my brain is in slow motion. I wanted to say, where the autopsy reports are concerned, I think it's anybody's guess as to what will come about.

 

[rsd1200]

I think-don't quote me on this, I read on the Ohio or So. Ohio Crime Stoppers that the rewards are put together with private donations. This was a day or so after the news on the Rhoden reward was announced

Thanks, glf. You are correct, they did put the reward together.

This is what I had read.
It’s possible that something as innocuous as geography is at play. While Columbus and Cincinnati have active Crime Stoppers programs, rural Pike County does not.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...offer-for-tips-on-8-pike-county-killings.html

I looked a bit further and found this article was sent out a couple days later:

In conjunction with the Pike County Sheriff’s Office and the Ohio Attorney General’s Office, Southern Ohio Crimestoppers (SOCS) has offered a $10,000
http://www.newswatchman.com/news/article_2f4068f2-c2f4-5e55-97e7-769ba39cba67.html

 

[rsd1200]

I live in a double wide my back door comes into the laundry room. You have to go through kitchen and dining to get to master , kitchen and living room to get to other bedrooms. So either way they can be laid out differently. J/S without her model you couldn't really tell layout.


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One of the ones I lived in, the back door opened into the kitchen area, which was on one end, and all three bedrooms were on the other end (sw). The other sw had a back door that opened into the hall near the master, but it was only a 2 br iirc (of course this was many, many years ago, so the floor plans have probably changed somewhat).

 

[rsd1200]

Someone mentioned whether or not a determination can be made if someone was asleep at TOD.
I DON'T HAVE a link and although I'm an RN, I don't even pretend to know the science about TOD.
But when I think about it, someone who is laying in bed just PRETENDING to be asleep would have tons of adrenaline from the fear alone. Their heart would probably be beating very strong, pulse racing and palpable. This may result in a lot more blood leaving the body with a lot more force. Maybe more rapid blood loss? Whereas someone was REALLY asleep, heart would be normal, no fear or adrenaline, and blood loss or spatter might be minimal.
Like I said ONLY a thought. NO scientific or link otherwise. Just lots of time to ponder stuff with no new news.

IANADr or Nurse, but, I got to thinking on this and did some looking. A person under high stress, or in fight or flight mode, will secrete more adrenaline and cortisol. It has also been found that autopsies of people who die from suicide show significantly high increase (10 fold) in CRF in bloodstream than do those who die from natural causes. CRF is secreted by the hypothalamous, which stimulates the pituitary to secrete ACTH, which in turn causes the adrenal glands to secrete adrenaline and cortisol (the hormone for fight-or-flight response). So, in a nutshell, it seems it could be found in the autopsy if these were elevated. The only problem is, these are elevated in persons who live with high levels of stress too. From what I've come to know of the Rhodens, they had a lot of fight-or-flight, and other stressful, life situations. When stress is temporary the hippocampus will shut the CRF production off though, but in stressed people this doesn't happen like it should.

Undoing Perpetual Stress: The Missing Connection Between Depression, Anxiety ...

By Richard O'Connor

 

[evelezrn]

IANADr or Nurse, but, I got to thinking on this and did some looking. A person under high stress, or in fight or flight mode, will secrete more adrenaline and cortisol. It has also been found that autopsies of people who die from suicide show significantly high increase (10 fold) in CRF in bloodstream than do those who die from natural causes. CRF is secreted by the hypothalamous, which stimulates the pituitary to secrete ACTH, which in turn causes the adrenal glands to secrete adrenaline and cortisol (the hormone for fight-or-flight response). So, in a nutshell, it seems it could be found in the autopsy if these were elevated. The only problem is, these are elevated in persons who live with high levels of stress too. From what I've come to know of the Rhodens, they had a lot of fight-or-flight, and other stressful, life situations. When stress is temporary the hippocampus will shut the CRF production off though, but in stressed people this doesn't happen like it should.

Undoing Perpetual Stress: The Missing Connection Between Depression, Anxiety ...

By Richard O'Connor

WOW !! Your NAILED the physiology and that makes total sense.

Also was thinking... (and this gets gross really fast, but bear with me...)

If i was lying perfectly still in my bed just PRETENDING to be asleep and knew I was about to get stabbed, my heart would be beating SO hard and pumping my blood SO fast that when the knife went in, my blood would spurt all over the ceiling and walls.

BUT

If I'm really actually ASLEEP, I wouldn't know it was coming. I wouldn't be scared. My heart rate would be normal. When someone stabs me, I would probably just bleed out slowly. The blood would just pool in the bed right next to me.

That could possibly be a factor investigators might take into account IF it's even possible to determine if someone were asleep or awake at TOD (from stabbing, shooting etc).

Ok. I've derailed. What a rant huh? Now my head hurts and I think it's past my bedtime.

 

[rsd1200]

WOW !! Your NAILED the physiology and that makes total sense.

Also was thinking... (and this gets gross really fast, but bear with me...)

If i was lying perfectly still in my bed just PRETENDING to be asleep and knew I was about to get stabbed, my heart would be beating SO hard and pumping my blood SO fast that when the knife went in, my blood would spurt all over the ceiling and walls.

BUT

If I'm really actually ASLEEP, I wouldn't know it was coming. I wouldn't be scared. My heart rate would be normal. When someone stabs me, I would probably just bleed out slowly. The blood would just pool in the bed right next to me.

That could possibly be a factor investigators might take into account IF it's even possible to determine if someone were asleep or awake at TOD (from stabbing, shooting etc).

Ok. I've derailed. What a rant huh? Now my head hurts and I think it's past my bedtime.

That, in theory, about the blood flow, could possibly be true. I'd say the blood spatter analyst would be able to tell more about that. Being shot in the head though, at what I'm guessing would be close range, the smaller entry point would not bleed out as much, while the larger exit wound, where the blood, and other matter, would come from, would probably be absorbed by the bedding. (just guessing)

A little more pondering. The Rhodens were not afraid to fight. I believe if they were awake, they'd have fought tooth and toenail against their assailants.This would have led to defensive wounds, and shots to other parts of their bodies, like CR1. I think they either woke CR1 up as they came in, or he was not yet asleep, and heard them when they came in, and he just couldn't get to his firearm in time. CR1 was a snafu in their plan, but they handled it and moved on. CR1, KR, FR, and GR, do not strike me as being shrinking violets. I don't think they'd have just laid there, pretended to be asleep, and let them shoot them, and their family members, in the head. Especially being parents in the home with children, and not knowing if their children would be next. I'd also not be surprised if DR, CR2, HG, and HR, knew how to handle a firearm too, or had a baseball bat nearby. If the shots were anywhere else, other than only to the head, then I could see more along the lines that they were awake. They may have awakened for just a few moments of realization that something was very wrong, but not in time to fight back. Then again, I could be wrong.

 

[hec60504]

This is why I believe there was more than 1 subject: A gunshot to the sleeping person (even if the firearm had a suppressor) would wake the other person who was sleeping - even if just for a brief moment. In the case of CR1, IMO he was being handled by one subject, while the other subject went into the bedroom quickly.

That, in theory, about the blood flow, could possibly be true. I'd say the blood spatter analyst would be able to tell more about that. Being shot in the head though, at what I'm guessing would be close range, the smaller entry point would not bleed out as much, while the larger exit wound, where the blood, and other matter, would come from, would probably be absorbed by the bedding. (just guessing)

A little more pondering. The Rhodens were not afraid to fight. I believe if they were awake, they'd have fought tooth and toenail against their assailants.This would have led to defensive wounds, and shots to other parts of their bodies, like CR1. I think they either woke CR1 up as they came in, or he was not yet asleep, and heard them when they came in, and he just couldn't get to his firearm in time. CR1 was a snafu in their plan, but they handled it and moved on. CR1, KR, FR, and GR, do not strike me as being shrinking violets. I don't think they'd have just laid there, pretended to be asleep, and let them shoot them, and their family members, in the head. Especially being parents in the home with children, and not knowing if their children would be next. I'd also not be surprised if DR, CR2, HG, and HR, knew how to handle a firearm too, or had a baseball bat nearby. If the shots were anywhere else, other than only to the head, then I could see more along the lines that they were awake. They may have awakened for just a few moments of realization that something was very wrong, but not in time to fight back. Then again, I could be wrong.

 

[Jax49]

IANADr or Nurse, but, I got to thinking on this and did some looking. A person under high stress, or in fight or flight mode, will secrete more adrenaline and cortisol. It has also been found that autopsies of people who die from suicide show significantly high increase (10 fold) in CRF in bloodstream than do those who die from natural causes. CRF is secreted by the hypothalamous, which stimulates the pituitary to secrete ACTH, which in turn causes the adrenal glands to secrete adrenaline and cortisol (the hormone for fight-or-flight response). So, in a nutshell, it seems it could be found in the autopsy if these were elevated. The only problem is, these are elevated in persons who live with high levels of stress too. From what I've come to know of the Rhodens, they had a lot of fight-or-flight, and other stressful, life situations. When stress is temporary the hippocampus will shut the CRF production off though, but in stressed people this doesn't happen like it should.

Undoing Perpetual Stress: The Missing Connection Between Depression, Anxiety ...

By Richard O'Connor

BBM. Thank you so much, that is exactly the info I was interested in.

 

[rsd1200]

This is why I believe there was more than 1 subject: A gunshot to the sleeping person (even if the firearm had a suppressor) would wake the other person who was sleeping - even if just for a brief moment. In the case of CR1, IMO he was being handled by one subject, while the other subject went into the bedroom quickly.

I agree. They found two different shell casings, that we know of, at the CR1 & GR location, plus LE/AG have told us that there were more than one suspect. But, if it had been one home, two victims, I could see just one assailant. But to pull four homes, and eight victims, off, in the time they did, and have time to grab cameras (so we've heard) etc... then I agree, it almost has to be two going home to home, and maybe a third to drive them to, and pick them up from, the three main locations.

 

[Jax49]

O/T (not too far off, I hope)

I just watched some of the earlier video again. There were a couple of scenes of the funerals--I was struck by the children. I don't want to think of the stress they are still living under.

As a small child I had a bit of that stress to live with. The small town where we lived awoke one morning to find an entire family (6 total) had been slaughtered in their beds. It was an ax attack and the authorities determined the perp had tried front doors until he found one unlocked.

Of course, the adults tried to shelter us, but it shattered the security we'd always felt. I especially remember locks being added to our doors. The case was never solved. I pray that doesn't happen to this case. May the victims rest in peace.