OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #20

[jk204]

I agree. They found two different shell casings, that we know of, at the CR1 & GR location, plus LE/AG have told us that there were more than one suspect. But, if it had been one home, two victims, I could see just one assailant. But to pull four homes, and eight victims, off, in the time they did, and have time to grab cameras (so we've heard) etc... then I agree, it almost has to be two going home to home, and maybe a third to drive them to, and pick them up from, the three main locations.

Thanks to all for that good exchange about death asleep. It's useful to remind they were shot in bed.

RSD also pointed out the speed of execution.

given clear intent to kill and speed of execution can we at least rule out robbery?

 

[jk204]

Considering:
- clear intent to kill
- tactic to surprise against defensive household
- multiple perps with at least one (or more) knowing the properties

Perps worked together with motivation and goal to kill. Either:

A) perps united behind a COMMON CAUSE and set a goal to kill

Or

B) perps united behind a COMMON GOAL to kill given that each had individual motivations?

Do you have any idea on that?

I realized recently that HR, FR, CR2 and KR befriended a common pool of people for different reasons and might have entertain conflicts of different nature. So I am considering both (A) and (B) as possibilities

 

[CSIDreamer]

O/T (not too far off, I hope)

I just watched some of the earlier video again. There were a couple of scenes of the funerals--I was struck by the children. I don't want to think of the stress they are still living under.

As a small child I had a bit of that stress to live with. The small town where we lived awoke one morning to find an entire family (6 total) had been slaughtered in their beds. It was an ax attack and the authorities determined the perp had tried front doors until he found one unlocked.

Of course, the adults tried to shelter us, but it shattered the security we'd always felt. I especially remember locks being added to our doors. The case was never solved. I pray that doesn't happen to this case. May the victims rest in peace.

Is there a thread for that? If not, will you start one?

 

[Jax49]

Is there a thread for that? If not, will you start one?

I'm sure there isn't, but I doubt I could even find a newspaper article to link. It happened too many decades ago. It would have been the winter of 55-56 and I don't even remember the family name of the victims.

ETA: to correct year

 

[CSIDreamer]

Thanks to all for that good exchange about death asleep. It's useful to remind they were shot in bed.

RSD also pointed out the speed of execution.

given clear intent to kill and speed of execution can we at least rule out robbery?

I've never really had a strong feeling the motive was robbery. I've always felt like it was annihilation. Even the story of money on/near Kenneth rang hollow with me. More like a staging.

 

[hec60504]

I agree completely... But this still begs the question: Why were they annihilated? Was it revenge? Was it because of something they knew? These seem to be relatively quick kills - meaning the subjects were not open to negotiation; the fate of their victims was already decided (none were tortured to death)...

I've never really had a strong feeling the motive was robbery. I've always felt like it was annihilation. Even the story of money on/near Kenneth rang hollow with me. More like a staging.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I agree completely... But this still begs the question: Why were they annihilated? Was it revenge? Was it because of something they knew? These seem to be relatively quick kills - meaning the subjects were not open to negotiation; the fate of their victims was already decided (none were tortured to death)...

I'm leaning towards (a) jealousy or (b) they stepped on someone's toes in a big way.

You know, it kinda' stuck out to me when the AG said it wasn't drug related. He's inferring they know the motive. (I don't necessarily agree.) You'd think if they know the why, they'd know the who.

ETA: Now all I find is they feel it *is* drug related.

 

[CSIDreamer]

BBM: I missed that. Do you have a link handy or point me in the right direction? Thanks.

It was in July or August I read it. For all I know, the link is upthread. Trying to find an article that has not been "updated" a million times. Have you noticed all the retracting and rearranging that goes on with the articles?

This one says they were (theoretically) drug related. I need to revise my original post!

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Community-still-on-edge-three-months-after-murders-387985392.html

Next to last sentence in the article.

 

[Jax49]

It was in July or August I read it. For all I know, the link is upthread. Trying to find an article that has been "updated" a million times. Have you noticed all the retracting and rearranging that goes on with the articles?

This is the only thing I could find searching this tread:

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Community-still-on-edge-three-months-after-murders-387985392.html

DeWine has said he believes the killings were drug related.

 

[glf]

The only problem I see with AG Mike's statement above is he BELIEVES this was drug related. I always have the fact in the back of my mind that he is a lawyer. They are taught to speak in riddles, for lack of a better way to put it. I mentioned once I thought Frankie's dabbling in the pot business might be minimal. I still think that is true that maybe he's selling dime and quarter bags to trusted friends. There's plenty pocket change to be made that way, and if he did get busted there would be misdemeanor chgs. That way he wouldn't be in danger of losing his kids. I think Chris and Kenny handled the bigger sales transactions, since they neither one were married and neither had custody of a minor child.

 

[CSIDreamer]

The only problem I see with AG Mike's statement above is he BELIEVES this was drug related. I always have the fact in the back of my mind that he is a lawyer. They are taught to speak in riddles, for lack of a better way to put it. I mentioned once I thought Frankie's dabbling in the pot business might be minimal. I still think that is true that maybe he's selling dime and quarter bags to trusted friends. There's plenty pocket change to be made that way, and if he did get busted there would be misdemeanor chgs. That way he wouldn't be in danger of losing his kids. I think Chris and Kenny handled the bigger sales transactions, since they neither one were married and neither had custody of a minor child.

I can see where you're coming from on the statement. I guess the way I look at it is he didn't say .... I believe it's related to money laundering, I believe it's related to car theft, I believe it's related you see where I'm going? I still have a feeling they were into a lot more illegal or questionable activities other than the pot.

 

[mamamumbles]

Considering:
- clear intent to kill
- tactic to surprise against defensive household
- multiple perps with at least one (or more) knowing the properties

Perps worked together with motivation and goal to kill. Either:

A) perps united behind a COMMON CAUSE and set a goal to kill

Or

B) perps united behind a COMMON GOAL to kill given that each had individual motivations?

Do you have any idea on that?

I realized recently that HR, FR, CR2 and KR befriended a common pool of people for different reasons and might have entertain conflicts of different nature. So I am considering both (A) and (B) as possibilities

I feel like it's drug related and there had to have been a shot caller. Since all the babies were spared and no one screwed up and took a baby's life, I would guess the shot caller gave clear direction not to hurt any children. This screams Mexican to me BECAUSE the babies were spared. It is a HUGE no no to kill babies in the Mexican gang world. I know there have been some brutal cartel baby killings in the past, but all the Mexican gang members I know (and I work in a jail 2 hours from the border so it's minimum of 90% of our population) cherish children. You do not mess with children.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[CSIDreamer]

I feel like it's drug related and there had to have been a shot caller. Since all the babies were spared and no one screwed up and took a baby's life, I would guess the shot caller gave clear direction not to hurt any children. This screams Mexican to me BECAUSE the babies were spared. It is a HUGE no no to kill babies in the Mexican gang world. I know there have been some brutal cartel baby killings in the past, but all the Mexican gang members I know (and I work in a jail 2 hours from the border so it's minimum of 90% of our population) cherish children. You do not mess with children.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I'm really asking honestly. What's the difference between Mexican gang and cartel?

 

[jk204]

This is the only thing I could find searching this tread:

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Community-still-on-edge-three-months-after-murders-387985392.html

The problem I have with this statement is "has said" vs "says" everywhere else.

Read it carefully.

"Has said" implies he said it before and not necessarily in that interview.

Dewine wwas careful in that interview. I would actually check when he really said it.

 

[Jax49]

The problem I have with this statement is "has said" vs "says" everywhere else.

Read it carefully.

"Has said" implies he said it before and not necessarily in that interview.

Dewine wwas careful in that interview. I would actually check when he really said it.

Yes, I noticed it wasn't a direct quote but it was the closest I could find. What I didn't find was anywhere anyone suggested he had said it was not drug related (which is where the original discussion started).

Dewine and the sheriff are always careful about what they say. They have to be, since hopefully they will be in a courtroom one day. IMHO.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Yes, I noticed it wasn't a direct quote but it was the closest I could find. What I didn't find was anywhere anyone suggested he had said it was not drug related (which is where the original discussion started).

Dewine and the sheriff are always careful about what they say. They have to be, since hopefully they will be in a courtroom one day. IMHO.

I'm obviously losing my mind. LOL.

 

[jk204]

I feel like it's drug related and there had to have been a shot caller. Since all the babies were spared and no one screwed up and took a baby's life, I would guess the shot caller gave clear direction not to hurt any children. This screams Mexican to me BECAUSE the babies were spared. It is a HUGE no no to kill babies in the Mexican gang world. I know there have been some brutal cartel baby killings in the past, but all the Mexican gang members I know (and I work in a jail 2 hours from the border so it's minimum of 90% of our population) cherish children. You do not mess with children.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

We can have individual opinion on this. I am not saying Mexican gang is impossible, just not the most probable scenario.

I think there are enough trouble makers within 90 miles around to explain it. I do hope arrests are made public soon so to demonstrate that evil is much closer to home.

There was only one arrest made public after a facebook threat. It turned out to be unrelated. But it shows however that LE and AG considered this threat was a credible motive in regards to the facts of the case.

It is my personal opinion that possibly other arrests with warrants were made locally without ever being made public because the individuals were not charged. But at this stage, it's only speculation on my part

 

[jk204]

Yes, I noticed it wasn't a direct quote but it was the closest I could find. What I didn't find was anywhere anyone suggested he had said it was not drug related (which is where the original discussion started).

Dewine and the sheriff are always careful about what they say. They have to be, since hopefully they will be in a courtroom one day. IMHO.

Agreed. Dewine always confirmed the commercial drug operation and never ruled out drug related motive.

Now drug-related doesn't necessarily mean Mexican gang.

 

[mamamumbles]

Agreed. Dewine always confirmed the commercial drug operation and never ruled out drug related motive.

Now drug-related doesn't necessarily mean Mexican gang.

True. Could be any type of gang or drug business. I guess most gangs, or prison inmates, are pretty judgemental about baby killing. Of course you will read all about cartels killing babies all over, but at least the smaller gangs/gang members here in the US are pretty judgemental about child molesters, child killers, and old people killers. This is my experience anyway.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[jk204]

True. Could be any type of gang or drug business. I guess most gangs, or prison inmates, are pretty judgemental about baby killing. Of course you will read all about cartels killing babies all over, but at least the smaller gangs/gang members here in the US are pretty judgemental about child molesters, child killers, and old people killers. This is my experience anyway.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

So how do you explain Reader's position on the child custody hearings and also the gag order?