OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #23

[RAISINISBACK]

I agree. If that dog knew them, she'd have been wiggling all over the place. We know how she responded to unknowns, because of the day that LE was there, and DS restrained her, so she was not a dog that was not okay with strangers, in her space. But DS went right into the trailer when he checked on KR, and Brownie did not stop him at all. The person who killed KR, almost had to have been in that trailer, when KR went to bed. I know it's not popular but it makes me feel odd about how KR fit into this. Was he taken out to leave no witnesses? Had he seen something earlier that would have triggered a memory?

DS doesn't add up for me either. I am leaning toward him staying the night and then getting his girlfriend to alibi him later. I wish we knew if KR was shot with his own gun or if that gun was missing because I can totally see someone staying the night and waiting for KR to go to sleep then killing him with then gun that he had lying next to him.

I can't find the blow up picture someone did of KR's fifth wheel. I know it's in the threads somewhere, but to the best of my recall there were no windows in the front over cab area where the bed would have been neither front nor sides, but without reviewing the picture I can't be certain. I think Betty was the one who blew them up so maybe she can help me. I don't know how to filter out every post but hers.

 

[rsd1200]

I've got this pic of KR's trailer. I don't see how it would be possible to shoot him through the window, and do it with one shot. It also looks as if the window is in tact, at least on the side with the deck. I'd think they'd need some sort of deck, or ladder, etc.. to stand on, that would be sturdy enough to allow them to aim well, in the dark, too.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I've got this pic of KR's trailer. I don't see how it would be possible to shoot him through the window, and do it with one shot. It also looks as if the window is in tact, at least on the side with the deck. I'd think they'd need some sort of deck, or ladder, etc.. to stand on, that would be sturdy enough to allow them to aim well, in the dark, too.

Thank you rsd1200. I don't see a window in the front of the fifth wheel and I think a head shot from the side would be impossible even for a highly trained shooter. I agree they would have needed something to stand on to shoot through the window and dragging someone up or even a ladder would have caused the dog to bark and may have even awakened KR. I also think that window is intact but we can't see the other side.

Just wanted to be sure my theory of someone being in that fifth wheel before KR went to sleep was viable.

 

[Dudly]

I really don't see the surviving parents doing this either, but it is a theory to explore. They are younger than I am, and when I was their age, I was out running all night too. The main one that I am very suspicious about being a coincidence, is DS. He doesn't add up for me.

I've had trouble believing DS from the start. I keep wondering if something is missing from KR's trailer that we, or maybe no one, knows about. Was his story about
cash laying at KR's feet been verified?

 

[rsd1200]

Thank you rsd1200. I don't see a window in the front of the fifth wheel and I think a head shot from the side would be impossible even for a highly trained shooter. I agree they would have needed something to stand on to shoot through the window and dragging someone up or even a ladder would have caused the dog to bark and may have even awakened KR. I also think that window is intact but we can't see the other side.

Just wanted to be sure my theory of someone being in that fifth wheel before KR went to sleep was viable.

BBM
I think it's very viable.

 

[amauet1]

Let's face it guys, these people might not have been told "what" to say when they talked in their interviews, but they were told what "not" to say by LE. Hench..... our problem from the get-go. With very few actual facts to go on, all we have is our investigative skills and imaginations to try and find out "what" happened. Why the powers that be are continuing with this tactic at this time is only known to them. But IMO, it is not a coincidence that so many drug trafficer's have been taken down in Pike Co and surrounding Counties lately.
These murders did open up a can of worms in the drug trade, and LE taking advantage of it is not unusual. Is this another reason why we have not been given much information on this case? I mean it has been quite awhile since the AG threatened to start arresting people if they didn't start talking.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I am really scared of the pitt bulls. I have never seen one that does not look like it wants to bite me. My thought is this. The pitts may be silent attackers true, but if it was a stranger that opened that door wouldn't said stranger have a huge hunk of flesh out of his arm or leg? If anyone owns a pitt I would love to hear what they think the chances are that pitt bull bit the killers if they are strangers. ( I know this sounds a bit sarcastic but I don't mean it to be. I would genuinely like to know your thoughts in relation to your own dog on the chances the pitt bit a stranger.) Another thing. If the dog bit the killers can they get DNA from the dogs mouth/teeth?

I have rescued many Pit Bulls that had been previously abused severely, and I currently have 2 rescues with no known abuse, but they still ended up at shelters, so no clear history. In each case, they have rehabilitated great physically and emotionally, become close to my other dogs, extremely bonded with me, and never showed any aggression toward me or anyone else, including my niece and nephew who are small, noisy, and do toddler things, like lay on the dogs and roll around on the dogs. Yes, they would bark and SOUND ferocious if someone approached the house in the dark, but they are gentle by nature. If someone was attacking me, my Pits might bite, but would not maul the person. Remember, this dog was the Nanny dog, widely sought by families with young children until misinformation became pervasive in the mainstream media and hateful, abusive humans (who frequently inject them with steroids to turn them if they are fighting them) got involved. This breed amazes me in their resilience and ability to forgive and trust humans, despite previous abuse. So, if I were being attacked and I had time to show distress, my Pits would be equally likely to bite or to knock the attacker over. They would absolutely come to my aid, but it would not be a mauling like some people picture. One last note: granted, there are exceptions in every breed due to genetic defect, illness, etc., but Pit Bulls routinely rank very high in temperament tests. Sorry about the the lengthy response. But I write with a great deal of experience with the breed. (forgive my slight rant, please.)

One thought that occurred to me is if the attacker might have controlled KR by threatening to hurt his Pit? That's a cruel scenario, but everything about these murders was cruel.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

In Norway owning pitts and am staffs is prohibited by law(since 2004), even mixes. They're harder dogs to train, and are historicaly bred for their killer instincts, so compared to most other dogs they are considered unpredictable and aggressive by nature. I've had no problems with the pitts and staffs I've known, but the problem was their reputation attracted the wrong kind of owners, criminals and young people with no prior dog experience. It got bloody.
Now, if you have a dog that looks like a forbidden breed, you need to have it chipped and registered by a vet. You still see them around though, let's just say that british staffs have gotten a lot larger in the last 12 years. My guess is some vets are against the prohibition, and chip forbidden breeds as something else, claiming good faith if they're questioned. Just a couple of weeks ago an am staff mix was put down by the police after chewing up a pomeranian outside a resturant. The dog was on a short leash, and the owner was a grown woman.

Back to topic ;-), I wouldn't gamble on getting unharmed past a pitt (or any guard dog) I've only met a few times, so the perps must have known the dogs well, or somehow sedated them. MOO

Fortunately, they are not banned in the U.S. And as a Pit Bull owner several times over, I must say that my experiences are in direct contrast to your description, based only on assumption...as they are banned where you live, and I presume you have not welcomed one into your family.

They are NOT bred to fight. By the vast majority of owners, we love and appreciate the breed's uncommon ability to forgive, be rehabilitated, be part of our families, bond and protect our children, and trudge on in the face of misinformed, negative publicity.

To get those Pits and Staffies to fight, criminals inject them with steroids and abuse them. Aggression is simply not in their natural nature. (Excepting the very small percentage of dogs with a genetic defect-which is no higher in Pits or Staffies than any other breed.)

P.S. Your English is great. I wish I knew a second language so well!

 

[Obiwankenobi]

I really don't see the surviving parents doing this either, but it is a theory to explore. They are younger than I am, and when I was their age, I was out running all night too. The main one that I am very suspicious about being a coincidence, is DS. He doesn't add up for me.

I've never really thought about him in the sense that he may be part of it. I'd really love to know who went first, if it was UHR crew 1st or KR's. It could be possible that KR was having an overnight guest and they waited for him to sleep and then went on to UHR because they knew who was staying over and/or they were believed to have some $ lying around. But I have to think there was more than 1 man involved. I have a hard time believing that the confrontation with CR1 didn't leave someone with some sort of battle wounds unless the perps were welcomed inside and totally blindsided CR and GR.

 

[hec60504]

I believe they were welcomed inside as well. But I still don't think robbery was the motive - I think information was. Something profound enough to put the suspects in prison for a long time, info that someone threatened to release. I also believe there were at least 2, if not 3 people involved in the attacks.

I've never really thought about him in the sense that he may be part of it. I'd really love to know who went first, if it was UHR crew 1st or KR's. It could be possible that KR was having an overnight guest and they waited for him to sleep and then went on to UHR because they knew who was staying over and/or they were believed to have some $ lying around. But I have to think there was more than 1 man involved. I have a hard time believing that the confrontation with CR1 didn't leave someone with some sort of battle wounds unless the perps were welcomed inside and totally blindsided CR and GR.

 

[Elley Mae]

When i read Donald Stone's statement i read it that he didn't get the call from Kenneth to come over, (the night before) to spend the night. If that is the case then it leads to the believe Kenneth was killed first. Jmo

 

[mamamumbles]

I also think KR was first to go. If it was a stranger, there is no way he let them in because they would have been wearing foot coverings and gloves or whatever they need to not drop any prints or evidence. If it was someone who is there frequently, that would make sense. Same with the others. Whoever did this did not leave prints or hairs (I'm assuming unless LE is that bad).

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Elley Mae]

As far as prints, if there are prints(shoes) in blood or on the ground they would have compared them with the known prints that were there, (family members) i would assume, hope. If they have prints they would keep that to themselves. Jmo

 

[glf]

That's one of the problems assoc. with this case. There were 79 pieces of evidence recovered, 60 pieces after BCI came on the scene. We have no idea if they looked for hair fibers or not, especially since there would be so much familial DNA in the homes.
I really don't think Donald has what it takes to plan, carry out, and then keep a straight face about these murders. I do realize that has been said about many a murder suspect, but I still feel like he could not have been involved.
I agree that Leonard and Judy could both very easily live long enough to see these babies become adults, but I believe the courts would lean toward younger family members raising the babies first. I'm sure in the investigation, they have been background and character checked seven ways from Sunday. And until those babies have a permanent home, I will continue to believe LE is using them as a pawn in this situation.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I've got this pic of KR's trailer. I don't see how it would be possible to shoot him through the window, and do it with one shot. It also looks as if the window is in tact, at least on the side with the deck. I'd think they'd need some sort of deck, or ladder, etc.. to stand on, that would be sturdy enough to allow them to aim well, in the dark, too.

It looks to me like there were venetian blinds on the windows by the bed and also on the pull out window. Or curtains.?

 

[hec60504]

There had to be an incredible amount of blood - head shots in particular bleed like mad; the blood literally pours out. I wonder if LE got some shoe prints? If not, these guys must have been real professionals...

That's one of the problems assoc. with this case. There were 79 pieces of evidence recovered, 60 pieces after BCI came on the scene. We have no idea if they looked for hair fibers or not, especially since there would be so much familial DNA in the homes.
I really don't think Donald has what it takes to plan, carry out, and then keep a straight face about these murders. I do realize that has been said about many a murder suspect, but I still feel like he could not have been involved.
I agree that Leonard and Judy could both very easily live long enough to see these babies become adults, but I believe the courts would lean toward younger family members raising the babies first. I'm sure in the investigation, they have been background and character checked seven ways from Sunday. And until those babies have a permanent home, I will continue to believe LE is using them as a pawn in this situation.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have rescued many Pit Bulls that had been previously abused severely, and I currently have 2 rescues with no known abuse, but they still ended up at shelters, so no clear history. In each case, they have rehabilitated great physically and emotionally, become close to my other dogs, extremely bonded with me, and never showed any aggression toward me or anyone else, including my niece and nephew who are small, noisy, and do toddler things, like lay on the dogs and roll around on the dogs. Yes, they would bark and SOUND ferocious if someone approached the house in the dark, but they are gentle by nature. If someone was attacking me, my Pits might bite, but would not maul the person. Remember, this dog was the Nanny dog, widely sought by families with young children until misinformation became pervasive in the mainstream media and hateful, abusive humans (who frequently inject them with steroids to turn them if they are fighting them) got involved. This breed amazes me in their resilience and ability to forgive and trust humans, despite previous abuse. So, if I were being attacked and I had time to show distress, my Pits would be equally likely to bite or to knock the attacker over. They would absolutely come to my aid, but it would not be a mauling like some people picture. One last note: granted, there are exceptions in every breed due to genetic defect, illness, etc., but Pit Bulls routinely rank very high in temperament tests. Sorry about the the lengthy response. But I write with a great deal of experience with the breed. (forgive my slight rant, please.)

One thought that occurred to me is if the attacker might have controlled KR by threatening to hurt his Pit? That's a cruel scenario, but everything about these murders was cruel.

Thank you for your insight on the nature of pit bulls. I think you are very knowledgeable and have given us some food for thought.

That being said according to LE and family KR was asleep when he was shot.

My next question is could the killer have just opened the door a crack and shot KR.

How much in general do the pit bulls weigh and how large are they in general? The ones I have seen (only one or two since they are not many around here) were solidly built and looked to weigh maybe 40 pounds. In other words could the dog have knocked someone down or back by jumping against the door? If so would that have greatly altered the trajectory of the bullet?

 

[grow73]

Fortunately, they are not banned in the U.S. And as a Pit Bull owner several times over, I must say that my experiences are in direct contrast to your description, based only on assumption...as they are banned where you live, and I presume you have not welcomed one into your family.

They are NOT bred to fight. By the vast majority of owners, we love and appreciate the breed's uncommon ability to forgive, be rehabilitated, be part of our families, bond and protect our children, and trudge on in the face of misinformed, negative publicity.

To get those Pits and Staffies to fight, criminals inject them with steroids and abuse them. Aggression is simply not in their natural nature. (Excepting the very small percentage of dogs with a genetic defect-which is no higher in Pits or Staffies than any other breed.)

P.S. Your English is great. I wish I knew a second language so well!

Thank you, Norwegians just love to practice their English. :-D It can actually be quite frustrating for English speaking people who come here to learn Norwegian. ;-)

Regarding the pitts, I stand corrected. I had to read up, and the American pitbull does not seem to have been bred for the rumored traits, even though their ancestors might have been. Guess I also fell for some of the hype. With that said, my daughter's father had a pitt when she was a toddler, and they got along great. This was years before they were banned, and I never thought of taking precautions other than the ones you normally take with kids and dogs.
I've always been an "owner blamer" when it comes to dogs who attack, I also tend to be a "victim blamer" in some situations, for instance when our Bullmastiff accidentally bit me and I had to have 20 stitches in my stupid face.

This was a good read: https://www.cesarsway.com/about-dogs/pit-bulls/how-did-pit-bulls-get-a-bad-rap

 

[rsd1200]

It looks to me like there were venetian blinds on the windows by the bed and also on the pull out window. Or curtains.?

I believe those are pull downs but I'm not certain. I've seen them with both.

 

[jmt0189]

I read that the dogs were intimidating enough for officers to have to asked somebody ( maybe one of the relatives or neighbors) to help get them remove dogs from blocking the properties crime scenes ....