OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #23

[pearl]

But the dogs were locked inside the houses. They would have barked before the druggie/mass murderer got into the house to throw them meat.

Two things we cannot get around.
The dogs.
KR.

I am beginning to think there was no other reason to kill KR except to throw LE off the motive. As in "it can't be custody/someone angry at DR/CR2/HR/rejected lover" because why travel 10 miles and kill KR?

Unless KR's death was an opportunistic one by someone who stayed the night with him and knew about the others and decided to pick up some cash he had lying around.

bbm
I have always felt this to be the case with KR's murder.

 

[Tiff23fr]

911 Call and early communication info:
-7:49 911 call was made
-8:07 Deputy Chandler on scene
-8:14 CRobinson gets the call
"She doesn’t have to look at her phone to recall that it was 8:14 a.m." -Arrives in 20 minutes from Portsmouth a 45 minute drive before roads are blocked. - "They told me they’d all been murdered,” said Chelsea, 21. “I didn’t know what to believe. I just had to get there to see for myself.”

IMO it sounds like two different entities made the calls to Carver and Robinson if the context is accurate from media.

-Carver doesn't state when she received the call or who from but she did not arrive before the roads were blocked "The caller simply said there had been an accident involving*Hannah and her fiance, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden."

"Brentley didn’t have a mark on him, not a single speck of blood. He wasn’t crying and didn’t appear to have been unsettled at all."

Somewhere either during the time frame above, or before, BJM gets Brentley out of the home and it is stated he had no blood,scratches etc. This brings in the question, if Ruger had blood on him from being in the bed with Frankie and Gilley, did she take Brentley out then go get Ruger and not hug or touch Brentley after that. Wouldn't BJM have blood on her from carrying Ruger? If she then coddled or came in contact with Brentley wouldn't at least a speck have transferred to him? Or is it possible that someone else carried Ruger out that didn't touch against Brentley?

Also in that small timeline the sweatshirt was transferred to Brentley. "Brentley spotted Chelsea after she cried out his name. He was wrapped in the too-big sweatshirt of Bobby Jo Manley"

These are a lot of activities in a small timeframe. Something just seems off.

Sources:
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...d-pike-county-shootings-learns-to-adjust.html

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/10/25/hannah-gilleys-mom-my-little-girl-dead/92680404/

 

[RAISINISBACK]

911 Call and early communication info:
-7:49 911 call was made
-8:07 Deputy Chandler on scene
-8:14 CRobinson gets the call
"She doesn’t have to look at her phone to recall that it was 8:14 a.m." -Arrives in 20 minutes from Portsmouth a 45 minute drive before roads are blocked. - "They told me they’d all been murdered,” said Chelsea, 21. “I didn’t know what to believe. I just had to get there to see for myself.”

IMO it sounds like two different entities made the calls to Carver and Robinson if the context is accurate from media.

-Carver doesn't state when she received the call or who from but she did not arrive before the roads were blocked "The caller simply said there had been an accident involving*Hannah and her fiance, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden."

"Brentley didn’t have a mark on him, not a single speck of blood. He wasn’t crying and didn’t appear to have been unsettled at all."

Somewhere either during the time frame above, or before, BJM gets Brentley out of the home and it is stated he had no blood,scratches etc. This brings in the question, if Ruger had blood on him from being in the bed with Frankie and Gilley, did she take Brentley out then go get Ruger and not hug or touch Brentley after that. Wouldn't BJM have blood on her from carrying Ruger? If she then coddled or came in contact with Brentley wouldn't at least a speck have transferred to him? Or is it possible that someone else carried Ruger out that didn't touch against Brentley?

Also in that small timeline the sweatshirt was transferred to Brentley. "Brentley spotted Chelsea after she cried out his name. He was wrapped in the too-big sweatshirt of Bobby Jo Manley"

These are a lot of activities in a small timeframe. Something just seems off.

Sources:
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...d-pike-county-shootings-learns-to-adjust.html

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/10/25/hannah-gilleys-mom-my-little-girl-dead/92680404/

And we have only CR's word that B was left there at 10:30 PM the night before. He could have been used to get past the dogs, which would have all knew him and then placed at the scene after the murders. According to BJM the bedroom door to FR and HG's room was closed so B could not get into the bedroom to see his dad or the blood. Like I said that shows an inordinate amount of compassion, concern and care for that particular child by a killer who has just murdered 8 of his close relatives. No such concern or care was shown to RR or HR's baby. At 6 months old RR could have fallen off the bed and suffered an injury. Being in the bed at the time his parents were killed, he could have been hit by a stray bullet, especially as they were shooting in the dark. He could have been hit by a bullet fragment or bone fragment. Same for HR's baby. No way could they guarantee that either one of those babies would not be hit by a bullet or bullet fragment.

But now BR, he was placed out in the living room, where there was no way he was going to be hit or even see what was happening. Then the door was closed to keep it that way.

That is what seems way off to me.

 

[Dudly]

Welcome, gorilla!
.
KR throws a kink into a lot of theories. One of my thoughts is that he was unwittingly duped into providing information about the main targets, CR1, DR, and their children (GR & HG were just in the wrong place at the wrong time). Whoever did this was close to KR and had used him for info and being able to be around the others, so, if KR was left alive, KR would have known who killed the others. Whoever killed KR had to have known him well enough for KR to be in bed, and his dog not freak out by them having to break into KR's camper trailer. I think the killer was there when KR settled in for bed and his "friend" then killed him. KR was said to have slept w/a gun so one of my theories is that it had to be someone who he'd not thought was a danger to him and was hanging out at the camper with him that night.

I also find it hard to believe anyone broke into, or just walked into, KR's camper and killed him in his sleep. I feel he or the dog would have noticed and reacted...

 

[Tiff23fr]

And we have only CR's word that B was left there at 10:30 PM the night before. He could have been used to get past the dogs, which would have all knew him and then placed at the scene after the murders. According to BJM the bedroom door to FR and HG's room was closed so B could not get into the bedroom to see his dad or the blood. Like I said that shows an inordinate amount of compassion, concern and care for that particular child by a killer who has just murdered 8 of his close relatives. No such concern or care was shown to RR or HR's baby. At 6 months old RR could have fallen off the bed and suffered an injury. Being in the bed at the time his parents were killed, he could have been hit by a stray bullet, especially as they were shooting in the dark. He could have been hit by a bullet fragment or bone fragment. Same for HR's baby. No way could they guarantee that either one of those babies would not be hit by a bullet or bullet fragment.

But now BR, he was placed out in the living room, where there was no way he was going to be hit or even see what was happening. Then the door was closed to keep it that way.

That is what seems way off to me.

I think that timeline and so many activities in such a small window could be a big part of why the investigators woke BJM up to continue questioning her on the actual time the bodies were found. I'm sure they have, or at least hope they have, tried to reenact all the moves that morning by all parties to see if the reported acts can line up with the number of minutes between finding the bodies, LE arrival, and Chelsea's arrival.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think that timeline and so many activities in such a small window could be a big part of why the investigators woke BJM up to continue questioning her on the actual time the bodies were found. I'm sure they have, or at least hope they have, tried to reenact all the moves that morning by all parties to see if the reported acts can line up with the number of minutes between finding the bodies, LE arrival, and Chelsea's arrival.

Hubby mentioned something that had not occurred to me before. That being that those two babies (RR and HR's baby) being in close proximity or between the murder victims would have been in grave danger should a bullet have ricocheted after hitting one of the victims. He pointed out that there have been many instances of bullets hitting a bone which then changed the trajectory of the bullet.

That placed those two children in infinitely more danger that B who was in the living room.

Any gun enthusiasts care to weigh in on the possibility of this happening since all I know about guns is what I hear from hubby.

 

[amauet1]

I have mentioned this before, about the children being right next to their parents when they were found and the danger of being that close to the victims when they were shot. IMO the babies were moved before the victims were shot and placed back with the mothers afterward. There are a lot of things that we have either read or rumor's flying around about this horrible crime that have and haven't been confirmed by the power's that be.
They started at the very first press conference, when at the last minute they told the public about the "grow ops". The rumor then was the media were about to announce that information. so they told us about it.
From the beginning (IMO) everything that the murderer's could think of to "throw-off" LE was done at these murder scenes. They moved things around, shot outside of the trailers, spread rumor's, moved bodies, anything to make the scenes look different than they actually were. And IMO, that's what is taking so long to connect all the dot's.
I also think there is way more than one person in that neighborhood that know who did this or have some idea of who did this and why.

 

[JustFaith]

I've been stewing on this subject for a week. The only scenario that fits with the babies as a motive (for me) is this grand hypothetical of which I have no facts to support....I'm just saying this is the only way I think this could be a motive:

Suppose HMR was raped around the time she became pregnant, and she was hesitant to come forward because the perpetrator was known to her, and threatened her and her family. Suppose this individual waited until the child was born, but moved in to commit this crime before a paternity test could be performed.

He may have felt he needed to take out all of HMR and HMR's close confidants: parents, brothers, favorite uncle, HHG.

I have always believed the shooters had military and/or LE training. That still stands with this hypothesis.

What doesn't work for me in this scenario is why a few close friends of HMR survived. But perhaps, this is who the Sheriff is addressing in his most recent appeals to come forward?

Again, this is my own far-reaching speculation; basically me trying to fit a man-sized boot into a women's high heel shoe-print (I.e. how a child/children may have been a motive).

 

[Venom]

I just don't see how if the babies were sleeping in bed with HR and with FR and HG they could have been moved out of bed, the parents shot and then placed back into bed. I guess it's possible...I just don't see how anyone wouldn't have been woken up by someone walking up to the bed and removing the baby from bed.

 

[rsd1200]

Hubby mentioned something that had not occurred to me before. That being that those two babies (RR and HR's baby) being in close proximity or between the murder victims would have been in grave danger should a bullet have ricocheted after hitting one of the victims. He pointed out that there have been many instances of bullets hitting a bone which then changed the trajectory of the bullet.

That placed those two children in infinitely more danger that B who was in the living room.

Any gun enthusiasts care to weigh in on the possibility of this happening since all I know about guns is what I hear from hubby.

.
As many times as the victims were shot, in the head area, with the children sleeping beside them, and in the dark (I would gather), I'd think that they were shot point blank. The exit wound would most likely be larger and any bone fragments would be absorbed, for lack of a better word, by the bedding. The main harm to the infants, I'd think, would be only if they missed their target by being further away than point blank, or, the infants possibly suffering hearing damage from being close to the point blank shots. If one of the victims woke up a few seconds before, they'd probably have no idea what was happening It would have been extremely loud in those bedrooms, their hearing would have been muted, and they'd probably have felt disoriented, especially with it being dark. . A shotgun wound is going to be devastating. We're talking horrible. Bone fragments everywhere (even though the bedding would probably absorb a lot of the scatter). I'd guess they probably used pistols since there were so many shots.

 

[rsd1200]

I have mentioned this before, about the children being right next to their parents when they were found and the danger of being that close to the victims when they were shot. IMO the babies were moved before the victims were shot and placed back with the mothers afterward. There are a lot of things that we have either read or rumor's flying around about this horrible crime that have and haven't been confirmed by the power's that be.
They started at the very first press conference, when at the last minute they told the public about the "grow ops". The rumor then was the media were about to announce that information. so they told us about it.
From the beginning (IMO) everything that the murderer's could think of to "throw-off" LE was done at these murder scenes. They moved things around, shot outside of the trailers, spread rumor's, moved bodies, anything to make the scenes look different than they actually were. And IMO, that's what is taking so long to connect all the dot's.
I also think there is way more than one person in that neighborhood that know who did this or have some idea of who did this and why.

.
If it were me, I'd not have taken a chance on moving, and waking, the infants. I think they meant to leave them alive but if something happened to them, so be it.

 

[JustFaith]

.
As many times as the victims were shot, in the head area, with the children sleeping beside them, and in the dark (I would gather), I'd think that they were shot point blank. The exit wound would most likely be larger and any bone fragments would be absorbed, for lack of a better word, by the bedding. The main harm to the infants, I'd think, would be only if they missed their target by being further away than point blank, or, the infants possibly suffering hearing damage from being close to the point blank shots. If one of the victims woke up a few seconds before, they'd probably have no idea what was happening It would have been extremely loud in those bedrooms, their hearing would have been muted, and they'd probably have felt disoriented, especially with it being dark. . A shotgun wound is going to be devastating. We're talking horrible. Bone fragments everywhere (even though the bedding would probably absorb a lot of the scatter). I'd guess they probably used pistols since there were so many shots.

I think we are looking at lower caliber handguns, suppressors, and laser sights on the weapons. Laser sights wouldn't require being right beside the victims. They could have shot from outside the windows with these enhancements, possibly?

 

[rsd1200]

I think we are looking at lower caliber handguns, suppressors, and laser sights on the weapons. Laser sights wouldn't require being right beside the victims. They could have shot from outside the windows with these enhancements, possibly?

.
I think they were right inside, in every home. Also, there's not much to have stood on and balanced to get head shots, in the dark, through a window, on all of these folks. I remember BJM saying it looked as if FR had a black eye. I think he was shot through the eye, or very near it, and that was tattooing from the gun barrel being so close. I don't think it was a shotgun. I think it was a pistol. Just using shotgun for comparison.

 

[mamamumbles]

I have to wonder if there were people in each house, hiding, and waiting for them to all go asleep.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[glf]

I don't believe a woman had anything to do with the murders, but we have three single men dead. I wonder if bed sheets were tested for DNA. If they were in a relationship, even if only for a short time, possibly finding out who the women might have been could be a huge clue to the jealousy factor. If Sue had broken up with Bill, and got involved with Kenny, who's to say Bill hated the idea of Sue being involved with somebody else, and sought revenge, the rest of the family had to go, since they all knew about Sue and Kenny, and could turn Bill in as a possible suspect.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

.
If it were me, I'd not have taken a chance on moving, and waking, the infants. I think they meant to leave them alive but if something happened to them, so be it.

With this crime it's like Murphy's Law in reverse. Everything that could go right for the killer, did.

Unbelievable coincidences of those "9th" victims, all victims right where they were supposed to be, everyone home in bed and asleep, no one playing video games or texting a late night message to a bf/gf, babies fed and asleep, keys right where they are supposed to be, doors left unlocked, dogs quiet.

And multiply that X4.

It's hard enough to get that kind of luck at one crime scene let alone four. I don't think it could have went that smoothly for a trained special ops team who had been working together for years. And if Sheriff Reader is right we are dealing with locals here. Whoever the killers are, I have to hand it to them, they are some lucky people. I wonder if they buy lottery tickets?

 

[rsd1200]

With this crime it's like Murphy's Law in reverse. Everything that could go right for the killer, did.

Unbelievable coincidences of those "9th" victims, all victims right where they were supposed to be, everyone home in bed and asleep, no one playing video games or texting a late night message to a bf/gf, babies fed and asleep, keys right where they are supposed to be, doors left unlocked, dogs quiet.

And multiply that X4.

It's hard enough to get that kind of luck at one crime scene let alone four. I don't think it could have went that smoothly for a trained special ops team who had been working together for years. And if Sheriff Reader is right we are dealing with locals here. Whoever the killers are, I have to hand it to them, they are some lucky people. I wonder if they buy lottery tickets?

Absolutely. If they are not a part of this family, or a very close "friend", I will be amazed. I'd almost bet the farm on one of the two being involved in some way.

 

[Flatbush]

Absolutely. If they are not a part of this family, or a very close "friend", I will be amazed. I'd almost bet the farm on one of the two being involved in some way.

I am right there with ya. No farm but I do have a land parcel I could place a bet with.
I am of the belief it was a so called friend. Way too much pointing to they were known to family. I went back and have been re-reading earlier articles trying to glean something, have also have been attempting a little family tree research on the family. A few hours doing that and I see what is slowing LE down, partially anyway. That is one HUGE extended family!

 

[Tiff23fr]

I am right there with ya. No farm but I do have a land parcel I could place a bet with.
I am of the belief it was a so called friend. Way too much pointing to they were known to family. I went back and have been re-reading earlier articles trying to glean something, have also have been attempting a little family tree research on the family. A few hours doing that and I see what is slowing LE down, partially anyway. That is one HUGE extended family!

Could a moderator weigh in on what the TOS are about sharing family tree research? I have looked at and connected a lot of the tree as well based on obituaries and it would be great if TOS allow us to compare those notes. This of course would be for relationship purposes and not as accusations towards the crimes. I also wouldn't be willing to list any current minors.

 

[glf]

I really don't see this as being family, at least not a Rhoden by birth or marriage. Sorry, folks, it just doesn't add up for me. And Yes, I agree the killers were the luckiest people on the planet that nite. Almost like the planning included the moon and the stars. I also agree the killers were inside each house to commit these murders with close to direct contact with each shot. I don't think anybody hid in the homes prior to people going to bed. About the only place to hide would have been a broom closet, walk in pantry, (which would not have been smart), or under a bed.
We've been hearing for months well-planned, something about close to being professional, although killers most likely acquainted with victims, could have been friends, (and I feel like we should also include business relationship), then, they (LE) have also included cartel, gang association, and being out-of-towners.
Then, the weeding out process began, and we're not left with much, except friends or family.
The family theory is a really big deal, considering the size of the extended family. Plus, the larger the family, the more likely there are, and have been family spats, big or little. I think it would be very hard for the killers to be in the family and not being discovered by other members, especially for seven months.