OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #23

[Tillicum]

I am wondering if the evidence of cockfighting is why the DHS was on the scene. According to these articles it is organized crime and illegal in all 50 states. Also the fact that there are so many people coming from other states would up the risk of violence to operators of these fights. A lot of cash money changing hands could tempt someone to kill.

Click here: Why the Rhoden family had so many cars
Authorities have said they found marijuana grow sites at three of the four homicide locations, as well as evidence of *advertiser censored* fighting. Manley maintains he does not know anything about any marijuana growing, saying Monday he did not often visit Rhoden's properties.

[video]http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/09/justice/new-york-cockfighting-bust/index.html[/video]
Cockfighting is a crime in all 50 states.

A cockfight in Queens, a pet shop in Brooklyn, and a farm in upstate Plattekill were raided Saturday night into Sunday by the task force, with the help of New York State Police, the Homeland Security Department and the Ulster County sheriff's office, according to a news release from Schneiderman's office.

Click here: Cockfighting suspects may be organized ring - The Blade
John Goodwin, director of animal cruelty policy for the Humane Society of the United States, said the size of the raid and the fact that so many individuals had come from out of state indicates an organized operation.

Click here: How Has Ohio Become a Cockfighting Capital? · A Humane Nation
Ending cruel practices like cockfighting is not just about putting a stop to animal abuse; there is plenty of evidence that shows these kinds of operations often serve as fronts for hardened and even organized criminals. A U.S. Department of Agriculture agent who brought down a large cockfighting operation in Kentucky this last year stated in an affidavit that Mexican organized crime figures had frequented the cockfights there, and had even brought in a hit man to kill a cockfighter who had laundered money. Federal investigations continue to reveal cockfights can be intricate illegal gambling enterprises, often associated with the distribution of large quantities of cocaine, heroin, and meth.

Is there a direct quote anywhere from Charlie or Dewine stating there was evidence of *advertiser censored* fighting? If so I haven't seen it. I know they confirmed there were fighting *advertiser censored* there but a lot of people breed, raise and sell them but never get involved in the fighting. IMO there's a big difference between raising them and fighting them and I thought Dewine's wife only said they looked like fighting roosters, not that she said they were cockfighting.

Also Charlie had them checked out and there's no way a veterinarian could miss the scarring and injuries if the birds had been used in fighting. I agree that if they were *advertiser censored* fighting, it could be behind the murders, I'm just not convinced at this point they were fighting them. I'm really intrigued with your theory so if you could post a quote confirming the fighting I would be interested in checking it out.

Early on, Reader called the Ohio Department of Agriculture, which sent in two state veterinarians to check every animal. All were fine.

As sheriff, he said, he is obligated to investigate criminal activity and has done so. But once the animals checked out OK, that was good enough for him.

“I am conducting a homicide investigation. I am not investigating a dog-fighting operation. I am not investigating a cockfighting operation. I want to know who killed a family of eight in my community, and that’s what we’re going to find out.”

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/05/29/pike-county-lookback.html#

 

[jk204]

The "9th victim stories"? I would love to stay around to chat about it, but I am sorry I need to go, I have a sore tooth...

 

[RAISINISBACK]

In your research about cockfighting have you found any cases like this with so many victims or multiple members of one family?

The "9th victim stories" have always bothered me. Too coincidental that all these people had last-minute change of plans.

Click here: Almost Midnight: An American Story of Murder and Redemption - Michael W. Cuneo - Google Books

Darrell Mease murdered LLoyd Lawrence and his wife and grandson. Lawrence had a cockfighting operation and also a meth operation. Drugs and cockfighting seem to go hand in hand.


There are a lot of murders in connection with the sport.

Click here: Cockfighting and Related Crimes : The Humane Society of the United States

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Is there a direct quote anywhere from Charlie or Dewine stating there was evidence of *advertiser censored* fighting? If so I haven't seen it. I know they confirmed there were fighting *advertiser censored* there but a lot of people breed, raise and sell them but never get involved in the fighting. IMO there's a big difference between raising them and fighting them and I thought Dewine's wife only said they looked like fighting roosters, not that she said they were cockfighting.

Also Charlie had them checked out and there's no way a veterinarian could miss the scarring and injuries if the birds had been used in fighting. I agree that if they were *advertiser censored* fighting, it could be behind the murders, I'm just not convinced at this point they were fighting them. I'm really intrigued with your theory so if you could post a quote confirming the fighting I would be interested in checking it out.

Early on, Reader called the Ohio Department of Agriculture, which sent in two state veterinarians to check every animal. All were fine.

As sheriff, he said, he is obligated to investigate criminal activity and has done so. But once the animals checked out OK, that was good enough for him.

“I am conducting a homicide investigation. I am not investigating a dog-fighting operation. I am not investigating a cockfighting operation. I want to know who killed a family of eight in my community, and that’s what we’re going to find out.”

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/05/29/pike-county-lookback.html#

Click here: Officials: Cockfighting clues found on Ohio property of slain family - AOL News
Cockfighting chickens, cages and signs of a breeding operation have been discovered on the land in Appalachian-Pike County, about 95 miles east of Cincinnati, Dan Tierney, a spokesman for Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine, said in an email.

Click here: Authorities: Evidence of pot, cockfighting at killing scenes | Fox News

Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine also says there's possible evidence of cockfighting at one of the properties, but he says he doesn't know what's relevant to the investigation.

Click here: Youngest Ohio family member received Facebook threat before murders | Fox News


The threat is just one emerging piece of evidence in the investigation, which has also uncovered cockfighting chickens and a marijuana growing operation at some of the properties where the eight were killed.

Click here: Ohio AG: Unknown if cockfighting, marijuana grows are relevant in killings

He also expanded on comments made in a radio interview Monday about possible evidence of cockfighting on one of the properties. He said the single roosters kept in individual cages “is consistent with” cockfighting.
“The one thing I saw were chickens out there. These would be cockfighting chickens,” he said explaining his wife, Fran DeWine, could identify the types of coops used for fighting chickens from the aerial views of the scene shown on television.


I would think that stating the chickens were fine would not include old scars or even include the fact that they could have been holding events on the property. But then it is just another theory and i have had many over the course of this investigation. Not ruling it out though.

And still wondering about Fran Dewine. lol

 

[Tiff23fr]

Is there a direct quote anywhere from Charlie or Dewine stating there was evidence of *advertiser censored* fighting? If so I haven't seen it. I know they confirmed there were fighting *advertiser censored* there but a lot of people breed, raise and sell them but never get involved in the fighting. IMO there's a big difference between raising them and fighting them and I thought Dewine's wife only said they looked like fighting roosters, not that she said they were cockfighting.

Also Charlie had them checked out and there's no way a veterinarian could miss the scarring and injuries if the birds had been used in fighting. I agree that if they were *advertiser censored* fighting, it could be behind the murders, I'm just not convinced at this point they were fighting them. I'm really intrigued with your theory so if you could post a quote confirming the fighting I would be interested in checking it out.

Early on, Reader called the Ohio Department of Agriculture, which sent in two state veterinarians to check every animal. All were fine.

As sheriff, he said, he is obligated to investigate criminal activity and has done so. But once the animals checked out OK, that was good enough for him.

“I am conducting a homicide investigation. I am not investigating a dog-fighting operation. I am not investigating a cockfighting operation. I want to know who killed a family of eight in my community, and that’s what we’re going to find out.”

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/05/29/pike-county-lookback.html#

Evidence consistent with cockfighting was found at one of the scenes the Pike County, Ohio, crime scenes, according to the Ohio Attorney General's office, adding another dimension of mystery to this unsolved murder case.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-famil...t-cockfighting-found-scenes/story?id=38674426

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Is there a direct quote anywhere from Charlie or Dewine stating there was evidence of *advertiser censored* fighting? If so I haven't seen it. I know they confirmed there were fighting *advertiser censored* there but a lot of people breed, raise and sell them but never get involved in the fighting. IMO there's a big difference between raising them and fighting them and I thought Dewine's wife only said they looked like fighting roosters, not that she said they were cockfighting.

Also Charlie had them checked out and there's no way a veterinarian could miss the scarring and injuries if the birds had been used in fighting. I agree that if they were *advertiser censored* fighting, it could be behind the murders, I'm just not convinced at this point they were fighting them. I'm really intrigued with your theory so if you could post a quote confirming the fighting I would be interested in checking it out.

Early on, Reader called the Ohio Department of Agriculture, which sent in two state veterinarians to check every animal. All were fine.

As sheriff, he said, he is obligated to investigate criminal activity and has done so. But once the animals checked out OK, that was good enough for him.

“I am conducting a homicide investigation. I am not investigating a dog-fighting operation. I am not investigating a cockfighting operation. I want to know who killed a family of eight in my community, and that’s what we’re going to find out.”

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/05/29/pike-county-lookback.html#

And one more. Sorry.

Click here: 1 of the Murdered Ohio Family Members Was Shot 9 Times, Coroner Says - ABC News

Evidence consistent with cockfighting was found at one of the scenes the Pike County, Ohio, crime scenes, according to the Ohio Attorney General's office, adding another dimension of mystery to this unsolved murder case.
DeWine "observed roosters in small cages, one to a cage -- a set-up he’s seen previously associated with *advertiser censored* fighting," Eve Mueller, spokeswoman for DeWine's office, told ABC News today. She did not specify which crime scene.
"Whether or not that was actually happening here, he doesn’t know -- but what he saw was consistent with *advertiser censored* fighting," Mueller said.

 

[Dudly]

Is there a direct quote anywhere from Charlie or Dewine stating there was evidence of *advertiser censored* fighting? If so I haven't seen it. I know they confirmed there were fighting *advertiser censored* there but a lot of people breed, raise and sell them but never get involved in the fighting. IMO there's a big difference between raising them and fighting them and I thought Dewine's wife only said they looked like fighting roosters, not that she said they were cockfighting.

Also Charlie had them checked out and there's no way a veterinarian could miss the scarring and injuries if the birds had been used in fighting. I agree that if they were *advertiser censored* fighting, it could be behind the murders, I'm just not convinced at this point they were fighting them. I'm really intrigued with your theory so if you could post a quote confirming the fighting I would be interested in checking it out.

Early on, Reader called the Ohio Department of Agriculture, which sent in two state veterinarians to check every animal. All were fine.

As sheriff, he said, he is obligated to investigate criminal activity and has done so. But once the animals checked out OK, that was good enough for him.

“I am conducting a homicide investigation. I am not investigating a dog-fighting operation. I am not investigating a cockfighting operation. I want to know who killed a family of eight in my community, and that’s what we’re going to find out.”

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/05/29/pike-county-lookback.html#

Breeding, buying, trading, and selling those chickens is very common practice. It does not mean they were used for fighting. I've seen Amish people that had them at swap meets.

 

[Dudly]

Click here: Officials: Cockfighting clues found on Ohio property of slain family - AOL News
Cockfighting chickens, cages and signs of a breeding operation have been discovered on the land in Appalachian-Pike County, about 95 miles east of Cincinnati, Dan Tierney, a spokesman for Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine, said in an email.

Click here: Authorities: Evidence of pot, cockfighting at killing scenes | Fox News

Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine also says there's possible evidence of cockfighting at one of the properties, but he says he doesn't know what's relevant to the investigation.

Click here: Youngest Ohio family member received Facebook threat before murders | Fox News


The threat is just one emerging piece of evidence in the investigation, which has also uncovered cockfighting chickens and a marijuana growing operation at some of the properties where the eight were killed.

Click here: Ohio AG: Unknown if cockfighting, marijuana grows are relevant in killings

He also expanded on comments made in a radio interview Monday about possible evidence of cockfighting on one of the properties. He said the single roosters kept in individual cages “is consistent with” cockfighting.
“The one thing I saw were chickens out there. These would be cockfighting chickens,” he said explaining his wife, Fran DeWine, could identify the types of coops used for fighting chickens from the aerial views of the scene shown on television.


I would think that stating the chickens were fine would not include old scars or even include the fact that they could have been holding events on the property. But then it is just another theory and i have had many over the course of this investigation. Not ruling it out though.

And still wondering about Fran Dewine. lol

It is a very simple logical reason they are kept one per cage. They will fight if they are put together. They are kept apart so they don't kill each other. What good would dead chickens do for you unless you eat the ones killed...

 

[Tillicum]

Breeding, buying, trading, and selling those chickens is very common practice. It does not mean they were used for fighting. I've seen Amish people that had them at swap meets.

True. I know a lot of people (including Amish) who raise and breed them to sell but they aren't involved in fighting them. I think some of the confusion comes from the term 'fighting chickens'. They're game chickens but most people call them fighting chickens. That doesn't necessarily mean they're used in fights. Just like not all hunting dogs are used for hunting. I'll wait till I see a direct quote from Charlie or Dewine. Media is putting their own spin on it IMO.

 

[becky3066]

Taking a step back, this case is basically cold. It's been almost 9 months. We can all agree the family members are generally uneducated and "unsophisticated." Do people honestly think these folks could pull off a crime like this and totally stump LE?? I just don't buy it. While it may not be a Mexican hit man, I don't think family either. Someone knew what they were doing, and they were cold and calculating.

 

[Dudly]

True. I know a lot of people (including Amish) who raise and breed them to sell but they aren't involved in fighting them. I think some of the confusion comes from the term 'fighting chickens'. They're game chickens but most people call them fighting chickens. That doesn't necessarily mean they're used in fights. Just like not all hunting dogs are used for hunting. I'll wait till I see a direct quote from Charlie or Dewine. Media is putting their own spin on it IMO.

We had a Beagle for 16 years and never took it hunting. She tried to chase a rabbit now and then. The rabbit would stop and wait for the dog and take off again. I don't think anyone one but Dewine got on the *advertiser censored* fighting wagon and only because his wife saw the pens and said that is what they are. The media ran with it from there...

 

[Dudly]

Taking a step back, this case is basically cold. It's been almost 9 months. We can all agree the family members are generally uneducated and "unsophisticated." Do people honestly think these folks could pull off a crime like this and totally stump LE?? I just don't buy it. While it may not be a Mexican hit man, I don't think family either. Someone knew what they were doing, and they were cold and calculating.

I tend to agree. It had to be someone sophisticated enough to not leave enough evidence to incriminate them easily. The average person, even with a vendetta, and lots of planning, isn't that careful. I remember a comment made years ago. Most crooks aren't very smart, that is why they get caught. We have no idea how many were involved. There could be a dozen. They may have hit all four places the same time. Without the official times of deaths, we don't know if they all happened the same day for sure... We have too little to go one do do anything but guess what happened...

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Taking a step back, this case is basically cold. It's been almost 9 months. We can all agree the family members are generally uneducated and "unsophisticated." Do people honestly think these folks could pull off a crime like this and totally stump LE?? I just don't buy it. While it may not be a Mexican hit man, I don't think family either. Someone knew what they were doing, and they were cold and calculating.

And don't forget very lucky. Everything that could go right for the killers did.

 

[Obiwankenobi]

I definitely agree with Tillicum on the media putting their own spin on things. Those articles were released very early on and Reader did say he had all animals checked out and NONE showed any signs of abuse. A few months ago I'd never thought the mean roosters would have played any part in this but now I'm not sure what to believe. From the interviews with the Rhoden family, they seem to support Reader, though there is obviously going to be frustration there. The Manleys, on the other hand, seem quite opposite, from what little we've heard from them. All I can do is continue to pray for justice and closure for everyone, especially the family.

 

[Tillicum]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this neighbor? I'm trying to put myself in his shoes, living close by and at home when 8 people were executed in their homes. All the other neighbors are shook up, scared and deeply saddened by the cruelty but this guy just calls it a hiccup?

VALENCIA (voice-over): On the road that leads to the crime scenes, we meet Stan Tumidolsky, the Rhoden's neighbor. He says although he was home at the time of the shootings, he didn't hear anything.

[16:25:03] Most people in this part of rural Pike County prefer to keep to themselves.

(on camera): What does it say about the area, the community?

STAN TUMIDOLSKY, RHODENS' NEIGHBOR: Nothing. We're all good people. This just happened to be a hiccup, that's all. I don't worry about stuff like that.

VALENCIA: While he may not be worried, plenty of people in Piketon are, including a best friend of one of the victims.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1604/25/cg.01.html

video here [video=youtube;AvN4ihqJiv0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvN4ihqJiv0[/video]

 

[becky3066]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this neighbor? I'm trying to put myself in his shoes, living close by and at home when 8 people were executed in their homes. All the other neighbors are shook up, scared and deeply saddened by the cruelty but this guy just calls it a hiccup?

VALENCIA (voice-over): On the road that leads to the crime scenes, we meet Stan Tumidolsky, the Rhoden's neighbor. He says although he was home at the time of the shootings, he didn't hear anything.

[16:25:03] Most people in this part of rural Pike County prefer to keep to themselves.

(on camera): What does it say about the area, the community?

STAN TUMIDOLSKY, RHODENS' NEIGHBOR: Nothing. We're all good people. This just happened to be a hiccup, that's all. I don't worry about stuff like that.

VALENCIA: While he may not be worried, plenty of people in Piketon are, including a best friend of one of the victims.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1604/25/cg.01.html

video here [video=youtube;AvN4ihqJiv0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvN4ihqJiv0[/video]

Definitely not the way I'd react, but the folks down there in that part of the state are a different breed. They haven't led easy lives, and I don't think much phases them. Plus if the Rhodens caused any trouble, he may not have been totally surprised by it.

 

[becky3066]

And don't forget very lucky. Everything that could go right for the killers did.

Yeah that's very true, but it still just boggles the mind. I've never worked in LE, but my gosh, 8 people killed and no evidence left behind? No family member or friend talking? I know it's a rural area, but I'm still just amazed by this whole thing.

 

[Tillicum]

Definitely not the way I'd react, but the folks down there in that part of the state are a different breed. They haven't led easy lives, and I don't think much phases them. Plus if the Rhodens caused any trouble, he may not have been totally surprised by it.

I'm one of those folks and this is the only person I've seen with this kind of reaction. That's why I asked what others think about it.

 

[becky3066]

I'm one of those folks and this is the only person I've seen with this kind of reaction. That's why I asked what others think about it.

Everyone reacts different to things. I don't know. My mom grew up in southern Ohio, and I went to school there. I wasn't surprised by his reaction.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this neighbor? I'm trying to put myself in his shoes, living close by and at home when 8 people were executed in their homes. All the other neighbors are shook up, scared and deeply saddened by the cruelty but this guy just calls it a hiccup?

VALENCIA (voice-over): On the road that leads to the crime scenes, we meet Stan Tumidolsky, the Rhoden's neighbor. He says although he was home at the time of the shootings, he didn't hear anything.

[16:25:03] Most people in this part of rural Pike County prefer to keep to themselves.

(on camera): What does it say about the area, the community?

STAN TUMIDOLSKY, RHODENS' NEIGHBOR: Nothing. We're all good people. This just happened to be a hiccup, that's all. I don't worry about stuff like that.

VALENCIA: While he may not be worried, plenty of people in Piketon are, including a best friend of one of the victims.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1604/25/cg.01.html

video here [video=youtube;AvN4ihqJiv0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvN4ihqJiv0[/video]

https://ohio.411numbers.com/directory/9375882118/peebles/stanley-w-tumidolsky.html

He is literally the neighbor to Dana'a brother James according to that link. That level of closeness and also running a business there is a strange response.

http://www.manta.com/c/mb5x7n0/stanley-william-tumidolsky-jr