OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #27

[rsd1200]

Meth is a huge problem in southern Indiana also. A friend of mine had a sad experience, her 18 year old daughter was with her 28 year old boyfriend while he was cooking meth in an abandoned farmhouse in southern Indiana. Farmhouse blew up and both daughter and boyfriend were sentenced to 20 years. Daughter gave birth in prison to a sweet little girl. My friend was awarded temporary custody of the newborn since both parents were in prison. She raised the little girl for 7 years until the mom got out of prison. The mom died a few weeks after being released. Then the dad got out of prison and was given full custody of the now 10 year old girl whom he had never even met, but he was the natural father. He promptly moved away and my friend has no visitation rights or contact of any kind with her granddaughter whom she raised from newborn to age 10.

Sometimes the system just sucks.

BBM
Yes, sometimes it does. I hope she and her Granny are reunited someday soon.

I've lost friends and family to drug and alcohol abuse over the years, and now my children are already starting to lose friends, and family. There's a thread on WS for one of my kid's friends that recently disappeared up in the mountains. They've found skeletal remains but it's unknown yet if it's her or not. People go missing more frequently than one would think, in the mountains, so it may not be her. I think they go to shoot up, up in a holler somewhere, get a bad batch, and o.d. There's so many ledges and drop offs that they could stumble off of or little places to get up under, where no one can see you. Just my theory on what happens sometimes. Other times I think some have gone up to one of the big cities, to hustle money, and someone has killed them, or they've died up there and no one knows who they are. It's really sad.

 

[rsd1200]

that's interesting and yet creepy. poor kid...i think it's great that he's not like so many others, playing all day on an iPad, or smart phone... but, i would think he'd like to have friends. or a date one day.

I'm a live and let live kinda person, but I just don't know about the isolation with a child. The W's don't strike me as people who would do too well at the survivalist thing but maybe I underestimate them. I can't see raising kids 100 miles away from the nearest hospital if I didn't have to. 75 miles to the nearest life saving equipment was too far by ambulance for one of mine so they had to airlift him from one hospital, where they'd stabilized him, to another, where they ultimately saved his life. 40 miles was deemed to long for a ground ambulance, for myself, a few years back b/c it was the nearest "big" hospital. So, I was airlifted. No, kids don't need the latest and greatest tech stuff and clothing, just love and acceptance, but if something happened out there it could be very bad, and the lack of socializing with people his own age... It just wouldn't be for me. Not with kids, and I'm a pretty self-sufficient, introvert.

 

[Flatbush]

Interesting few days we have had for sure. I am trying to keep an open mind as I read opinions and links to articles. I keep coming back to HRs oldest. He wanted HR to give him full custody. It makes sense, time will tell. All I know, 8 lives taken, family members left behind and there is no making things back to nomal ever.
Whomever is responsible will reap what they have sowed.
Ya''all have a good rest of the evening.I reckon next week things might get hairy at the court house. Anyone hear a time??? I wanna go!

 

[Flatbush]

RSD, surely they will return for their belongings and what was impounded...
If not, thats a big old flag to me!

 

[rsd1200]

Maybe they look happy because they know regardless of what happens, they'll not be held responsible. They may be a wealthy, powerful family that's been accustomed to having things their way. This may be the biggest crime they've been part of, but they may have been above the law in other instances. They probably have good attorneys and friends in high places who've always taken care of things for them. Some locals probably hold them in high esteem because of their power, their money, their history in the community, their friends at church.

They probably think when all this has blown over, they can return and pick up where they left off or move on to greener pastures. If they were involved in the deaths, they may feel justified in what they've done.

BBM

If it turns out that they were, I think that we'll find that this is the case. Also, I agree, if it turns out that they were involved, I don't think that this will have been their first rodeo, just their largest.

 

[amauet1]

I'm not LE but I was raised with a family member who was a homicide detective in a city that had its share of homicides. I heard a lot about his line of work, investigation techniques, psychological techniques, and over-all, how LE solves murder cases. This was long ago, in the 1960's, but my relative's team had an excellent solve and conviction rate in the days before dna testing was available and some of the cases were incredibly complex.

Based on what I heard from him and how he and his team went about solving murders, my thoughts are that LE had to question her the following reasons:

1. She is a close family member of the victims.
2. She found four of the bodies.
3. She contaminated two crime scenes by entering them and walking around.
4. How did she know Bentley was in FR's trailer and why did she she enter the second trailer after finding CR SR and GR murdered, especially when LE was on their way?
5. Why were the two other people with her so early in the morning and was this out of the ordinary or had she brought them with her before as she did her chores? Did either of her friends enter any of the homes?
6. What did she know about the grow operations?

Since they have given her two polygraphs (according to BJM), they apparently had a lot of questions for her. As for whether she passed the polygraphs, we only have her statement that she did.

As for suspicion of JM, we don't know for sure if he walked around in DR's home. I believe his wife reported that he opened the door, saw Dana and backed out. Again, he is also a close family member and he discovered a murder scene when LE was either on their way or had just gotten to the scene.

From LM we know now that JM sent a text to JW that night, at some point in time. We also know from LM that JM failed a polygraph recently. My guess is LE knows what was in that text message and exactly when he sent it. JM's wife was also texting DR at some point in time before the murders.

I know LM is extremely upset that LE continues to question his family, but those closest to the victims, especially close family members, are always first to be questioned when people are murdered. They have to be ruled out so LE can move forward in their investigation.

I don't for one minute believe that LE has some secret agenda to harass the Manley family or to try to pin a murder charge on JM. I do believe they have reason to believe that some members of the family have not been forthcoming with information and that could include inconsistent statements and/or not being able to satisfactorily explain certain things that are pertinent to the investigation. We don't know what LE knows. They aren't saying.

As LE has stated several times, they are being especially quiet about the case and this is taking a long time because they only have one chance to get it right and they want a successful prosecution when the time comes.

Edited to add: DeWine is a very ambitious man. This is the biggest murder case in the history of the state of Ohio. Is he going to put his reputation and future career on the line to enter into a conspiracy with some locals to harass the family of the murder victims? There's lots of talk about corruption and I'm not local, but I do know that there are lots of people involved in this case and it would take a huge conspiracy with many people to try to falsely hang a murder charge on an innocent person. All it would take is one person who knows of the conspiracy to talk (and that usually happens) and it would blow this sky high and DeWine would be ruined. I don't think he would take that chance, personally.

Adding to your list:
Bjm entered both trailers before she called 911.
For some reason LE felt she found the crime scenes earlier than she said.
As you said family (Manleys) was close enough to know pretty much everything that went on in the households of the Rhoden's including Dana's and KR's.
LE suspects they have not told the truth about what they know/seen/maybe took from the scene that morning.

 

[Renee110]

Pretty much the same way they tried to get custody of S. But without the bloodshed. Apparently the first party acquiesced whereas the Rhoden family did not.

Hmm. Wow. Hmm.

 

[molly1255]

Adding to your list:
Bjm entered both trailers before she called 911.
For some reason LE felt she found the crime scenes earlier than she said.

That is interesting. I thought she went into CR Sr's trailer, called 911 and then went to Frankie's. I do remember they were really questioning her on the time.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I think that's an assumption based on JW responding to a FB post on his profile that his religion doesn't allow/approve the celebration of Halloween. I had done a search a long time ago when I first saw that and Jehovah Witnesses was what I remember coming up on the search.

I think that there are several denominations, in addition to Jehovah's Witnesses, that do not support celebrating Halloween. I know of a couple protestant denominations that generally do not support that particular celebration.

 

[rsd1200]

Under which circumstances, a 40y father texts a 23y old kid and a mother texts another mother at 1 or 2am during the night on a Thursday evening, in the school year.

Think about it. Do not sleuth anybody. We don't know what is in the text

I have kids, as ya'll already know. I have one not too far from JW's age and another a bit older. JW was not working that next night and was not in school. I'm not sure how many, and how old, JM's kids are, but that would make a difference for my scenario. I have called/texted my kid's friends if I'm looking for my own and they've not checked in. Some of my kid's friends will just drop by my house (even if my kids aren't here) and just ask how we are, drink a pop, and head back out. If they see me on FB they'll send me an IM and ask how I'm doing. Stuff like that.

If AM and DM were both night owls, and were good friends, then I could see her calling her. I'm a night owl so I'm on til way into the morning. It's not uncommon for me to be talking to friends at 1,2,3, am, online, while I watch a movie.

Now, this was JM's niece's bf. My niece has a bf. She's a teen, and does typical teen things. We are not friends on FB. I do not know who her bf is, and even if I did know who her bf was, I'd never think to text him in the middle of the night (or at any time). I don't even call my own family after 11:00 unless it is an emergency.

However, if JW had befriended JM's son and he'd been in and out of their home too, then I could possibly see him making the text (of course we've no clue what it was about). The reason why, is b/c, again, my kids' friends calling/texting me or stopping by. One of the kid's friends called me one night around 9 and needed a ride to another town, 80 miles away. It was very important that he get there that night. Me and the better half loaded up and took him.

So, I guess it's kind of who it is, and what the context of the relationship has been. I have family members, who, if they called me at night and asked me to drive a 160 mile round trip for them, I'd likely say "No" and they'd likely say "No" to me too.

Now that that is as clear as mud, I hope it helps somewhat.

 

[SandyQLS]

Adding to your list: Bjm entered both trailers before she called 911. For some reason LE felt she found the crime scenes earlier than she said. As you said family (Manleys) was close enough to know pretty much everything that went on in the households of the Rhoden's including Dana's and KR's. LE suspects they have not told the truth about what they know/seen/maybe took from the scene that morning.

Good point. When a person enters the 1st house and finds murdered people, fear for one's own personal safety would arise immediately. Is the murderer still here? Am I safe? Maybe she ran to CRSr's looking for help and safety, but that's not what I would do - I would call 911 immediately where I am.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Under which circumstances, a 40y father texts a 23y old kid and a mother texts another mother at 1 or 2am during the night on a Thursday evening, in the school year.

Think about it. Do not sleuth anybody. We don't know what is in the text

That 23 year-old "kid" also is a father who picked up his young daughter earlier in the night from the R's. If it's strange for a mother to text another mother at 1 am on a school night, it's equally strange that a father would text another father who that night has visitation/custody overnight of a small child who is possibly in pre-school. Both texts are strange on many levels.

 

[SandyQLS]

Regarding CRSr and GR being beaten or tortured before they were shot to death: I saw an old episode of Forensics Files the other night. A couple never involved in drugs were murdered by home invaders. The man was shot in the legs first before he was shot to death and then she was shot to death. The detective appearing on the program was saying that the shots to the legs indicated that the home invaders were looking for something. When they apprehended the two suspects, sure enough the suspects had thought that the couple had drugs and money, and they had shot him in the legs demanding he give it to them. I wonder if this is what happened to CSSr and GR? When the murderers did not find what they were looking for there, they just moved on to the two next most likely places where it could be hidden. I cannot get over JW taking S a day earlier than usual - high volume on foreknowledge of something coming down and that he wanted S out of there.

 

[rsd1200]

That is interesting. I thought she went into CR Sr's trailer, called 911 and then went to Frankie's. I do remember they were really questioning her on the time.

I guess that accounts for that large time gap from when she first arrived until she called 911. That's always bothered me. There's been a few things about her story that's bothered me, but, she did go in and get the kids out of the nightmare... Gotta give her credit for that.

 

[everybodhi]

RSD, surely they will return for their belongings and what was impounded...
If not, thats a big old flag to me!

When I moved from Maine to California I sold most of my things and ground shipped through the USPO the important personal things in Uhaul boxes, for the high cost of moving my furniture across the country, it didn't take me long to do the math and realize I could just buy new stuff.
I don't think the cost justifies moving everything to Alaska, but being long haul truckers, maybe they intend to come back and drive truckloads of plastic toys and household items to Alaska, some people are more attached to their stuff than me.
His furniture didn't look very valuble but I noticed he had lots of deer heads, maybe he has a sentimental attachment to that stuff and it's worth the thousands of dollars in gas and effort for him to move it all 5000 miles.

But it doesn't really look to me like it was packed in a way to hitch the trailer up to a semi and move, it looks like they used the trailers to save on storage rent, temporarily, until they get back from a vacation and find another place to live.

(I'm only using my own logic to surmise which may not be anything like the logic of the W's.)

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I guess that accounts for that large time gap from when she first arrived until she called 911. That's always bothered me. There's been a few things about her story that's bothered me, but, she did go in and get the kids out of the nightmare... Gotta give her credit for that.

I have to tip my hat to her. I'd have been scared out of my mind. Honestly, I believe my first thought (unless I could hear the children crying from where I stood) would be to get in my car, call 911, start calling family members, and wait on help.

 

[Rixey]

I still think KR was killed early that next morning by someone else that knew he had cash and took advantage of the circumstances to take it.

While it's certainly possible his murder was the result of opportunity knocking, but at this point I think KR was killed because either

1) he was somehow involved, even if he didn't realize his involvement would result in the death of 7 of his relatives/in-laws. Once it was over & he was no longer needed he was killed to keep him from talking.

Or,

2) because he would have known enough to be able to figure out who did it and/or why it was done .

I keep coming back to the idea that only one or two of the victims were the real target and everyone else was collateral damage.

If you think about the people at each of the 4 locations as units, I think that at least 1 person in each unit would have known enough that they would likely know who killed the main target or at least the reason why that person was the main target. To eliminate the likelihood of them talking to LE about that they had to be killed, and to eliminate the very real possibility of a witness, so did everyone else in that unit even if those others knew nothing.

I can't see KR being the main target because of his location/living alone. If you just wanted to kill him, there are plenty of ways to accomplish that and not kill the others.

 

[amauet1]

That is interesting. I thought she went into CR Sr's trailer, called 911 and then went to Frankie's. I do remember they were really questioning her on the time.

And also LM in an interview claimed that BJM went to FR's before she went to CRsr"s.

 

[molly1255]

Good point. When a person enters the 1st house and finds murdered people, fear for one's own personal safety would arise immediately. Is the murderer still here? Am I safe? Maybe she ran to CRSr's looking for help and safety, but that's not what I would do - I would call 911 immediately where I am.

I agree.

In the interview she had with Chris Graves, BJM said she called 911 after finding CR Sr and GR and then she ran to FR's, found his door was also locked, and got the toddler to open the door. Why do this if the sheriff was on his way?

If she went to FR's before she called 911, she knew what was inside his trailer but she only mentioned CR Sr and GR in her call to 911 and she already had the kids out of FR's trailer. That's even stranger, IMO.

Whichever scenario it was, LE knows and they apparently found it her behavior odd, or her statements inconsistent, or both, and they continued to question her.

 

[Rixey]

It's already been previously mentioned that the text between the 2 guys was sent at around 9 pm.

Is there any other source beyond LM telling reporters the text was sent at 9pm?

Just because LM made the statement does not mean this is factual.