OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #27

[Bootsctr]

Meth is a huge problem in southern Indiana also. A friend of mine had a sad experience, her 18 year old daughter was with her 28 year old boyfriend while he was cooking meth in an abandoned farmhouse in southern Indiana. Farmhouse blew up and both daughter and boyfriend were sentenced to 20 years. Daughter gave birth in prison to a sweet little girl. My friend was awarded temporary custody of the newborn since both parents were in prison. She raised the little girl for 7 years until the mom got out of prison. The mom died a few weeks after being released. Then the dad got out of prison and was given full custody of the now 10 year old girl whom he had never even met, but he was the natural father. He promptly moved away and my friend has no visitation rights or contact of any kind with her granddaughter whom she raised from newborn to age 10.

Sometimes the system just sucks.

That is wrong on so many levels. I hope her granddaughter comes home to her soon. Heartbreaking!

 

[MJKTOOL]

Meth is a huge problem in southern Indiana also. A friend of mine had a sad experience, her 18 year old daughter was with her 28 year old boyfriend while he was cooking meth in an abandoned farmhouse in southern Indiana. Farmhouse blew up and both daughter and boyfriend were sentenced to 20 years. Daughter gave birth in prison to a sweet little girl. My friend was awarded temporary custody of the newborn since both parents were in prison. She raised the little girl for 7 years until the mom got out of prison. The mom died a few weeks after being released. Then the dad got out of prison and was given full custody of the now 10 year old girl whom he had never even met, but he was the natural father. He promptly moved away and my friend has no visitation rights or contact of any kind with her granddaughter whom she raised from newborn to age 10.

Sometimes the system just sucks.

Sounds like we probably live fairly close. Grew up in Pike County (Indiana not Ohio). Huge Meth issue there. Still live in Southern Indiana but got out of that county. Reminds me a lot of how people describe Pike County Ohio.

 

[kiwi50]

Meth is a huge problem in southern Indiana also. A friend of mine had a sad experience, her 18 year old daughter was with her 28 year old boyfriend while he was cooking meth in an abandoned farmhouse in southern Indiana. Farmhouse blew up and both daughter and boyfriend were sentenced to 20 years. Daughter gave birth in prison to a sweet little girl. My friend was awarded temporary custody of the newborn since both parents were in prison. She raised the little girl for 7 years until the mom got out of prison. The mom died a few weeks after being released. Then the dad got out of prison and was given full custody of the now 10 year old girl whom he had never even met, but he was the natural father. He promptly moved away and my friend has no visitation rights or contact of any kind with her granddaughter whom she raised from newborn to age 10.

Sometimes the system just sucks.

That is just so unfair. Is there no appeal system?

 

[Canaille]

Some of these lines of thought are getting pretty far off line. Someone said I wonder if they are Jehovah's Witnesses. Then someone says well if they are Jehovah's Witnesses... . Then someone says something like how long has the family been Jehovah's Witnesses? But, we do not actually know what religion if any they are..

I think that's an assumption based on JW responding to a FB post on his profile that his religion doesn't allow/approve the celebration of Halloween. I had done a search a long time ago when I first saw that and Jehovah Witnesses was what I remember coming up on the search.

 

[Canaille]

Louisiana bayous for me, the gator tastes better, not to mention the gumbo.

Hiding out in the Atchafalaya? LOL! Mosquitos would eat them alive. And it's about the end of crawfish season. ;-p

Could be in SC... tons of Ohio plates there.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yum, gator! Tastes like chicken!

The Ws could be anywhere. If I were innocent, and a good part of the town thought I was guilty,I'd seriously consider moving if I had the means. That can hang with you forever and there's no hiding in a small town. Even if you are exonerated at a trial some will always see you as guilty. Every horrible thing that happens in a small town, there's always someone who remembers it, and will bring it up. People never forget, and these eight murders will never be forgotten.

I agree. They may have wanted to get the children far away from the craziness before they had to start school with all that entails. Then again if they are involved in the murders IMO they took the craziness with them.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Interesting theory. I've thought about a theory that involves the W family approaching a M family member about getting rid of CRsr. Doesn't seem like the M clan (BJM excluded) were very fond of him. So if the W's approached the M's with a plan to get rid of CRsr is it possible that certain M's would be receptive to that idea?

Here's the twist though. The W's fully intended to eliminate the whole R family but didn't tell the M clan that. They used JM and AM to find CRsr location. He'd recently bought the new home for DR and maybe it was assumed he'd be there. So JM drives past DR house and doesn't see Crsr vehicle. He texts JW that he doesn't see the target. So AM starts texting DR asking what she's up to. Maybe she asks if CRsr is there, maybe not.

They find where CRsr is and make their move. There's animosity between the men so they beat and shoot CRsr and GR multiple times. They move over to FR place. They see BR sleeping on the couch so they quietly move past him to the bedroom. They shoot FR and HHG. They know they woke up the kid so they exit through the bedroom window.

On to DR house. Depending on the layout of the house, they kill DR or HR first and second. If the rumors and LM comments are to be believed, the shots woke up CRjr and he tried to hide between his bed and the wall so I'm guessing he was last.

I still think KR was killed early that next morning by someone else that knew he had cash and took advantage of the circumstances to take it.

That thought has crossed my mind, except the M's were enlisted to keep DR occupied so she didn't show up at the trailer where CR1 was or call him.

I can see JM involved in CR1 and KR's murders, but if he was, IMO he had no idea they were going after DR and kids.

 

[IceIce9]

That is just so unfair. Is there no appeal system?

In many states Grandparents have few rights, and the natural parent always trumps grandparents unless the parent is proved to be unfit.

Sadly, with the meth and heroin problem here there are many grandparents raising their grandchildren while the parents serve prison time or are simply unfit. But when they are released from prison or go through drug rehab they regain custody of their children.

There are attorneys who specialize in grandparent rights, but it takes big bucks and sometimes years in court to win visitation.

I used to to work with a pediatrician who testified several times for grandparents who had gone to court to gain visitation or custody. In every case the judge decided in favor of the natural parents.

 

[IceIce9]

Sounds like we probably live fairly close. Grew up in Pike County (Indiana not Ohio). Huge Meth issue there. Still live in Southern Indiana but got out of that county. Reminds me a lot of how people describe Pike County Ohio.

i work in healthcare and have worked in clinics in Jasper, Huntingburg, Washington, Evansville, Boonville, Scott County, Jennings County and a few others. Sad to see the lives and families being destroyed by meth and heroin.

I grew up in northwest Ohio and we frequently traveled through southern Ohio on trips to eastern states. Even 20 years ago the evidence of poverty was noticeable in southern Ohio. My dad and I drove through there on US Route 23 a couple of years ago and it looked very similar to some counties in southern Indiana.

 

[Canaille]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-39418054

that's interesting and yet creepy. poor kid...i think it's great that he's not like so many others, playing all day on an iPad, or smart phone... but, i would think he'd like to have friends. or a date one day.

 

[SandyQLS]

That thought has crossed my mind, except the M's were enlisted to keep DR occupied so she didn't show up at the trailer where CR1 was or call him. I can see JM involved in CR1 and KR's murders, but if he was, IMO he had no idea they were going after DR and kids.

You theory may have strong legs - I really like it. Maybe JM/AM/BJM felt that they were owed money from the R's or CRSr (for their part in the grow op?), or that CRSr had not treated DR fairly. Maybe what JM might know about or expected was an intended robbery/shakedown (rumors of grow cash in house) and never considered that anyone would get murdered let alone the whole R family, but the person(s) who actually went out there that night had other intentions. JW might be in that same kind of position... for instance they (JW/JM etal) let it be known to some lowlifes strangers that there was cash somewhere on the R properties, and the lowlifes went property to property looking for it with the W/M clans never expecting this result.

 

[Betty P]

<mod snip> I saw the pic and they look more than happy. How could anyone be "happy" knowing their property and their family's property have undergone a massive search by LE and LE towed away the stuff you left behind and is likely going through it all? Even if I was completely innocent, I'd be mortified and would high-tail it back to get everything straightened out with LE and also to clear my good name with the community.

Makes no sense to me - and you may be onto something close with the joke that you made.

Maybe they look happy because they know regardless of what happens, they'll not be held responsible. They may be a wealthy, powerful family that's been accustomed to having things their way. This may be the biggest crime they've been part of, but they may have been above the law in other instances. They probably have good attorneys and friends in high places who've always taken care of things for them. Some locals probably hold them in high esteem because of their power, their money, their history in the community, their friends at church.

They probably think when all this has blown over, they can return and pick up where they left off or move on to greener pastures. If they were involved in the deaths, they may feel justified in what they've done.

 

[cujenn81]

Those are all good questions. Since the murders, most have been answered. In the following interview with BJM, she discusses a lot of what happened that morning.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

She went to FR's trailer next door, to tell Frankie his father was dead, as most of us would have done. No one told her not to go there. Frankie's trailer was locked. She pounded on the door asking for Frankie to open it. She heard the toddler Brently inside, he opened the door. She went in, saw the carnage there and took the infant, Ruger, and Brently outside. As she was quoted saying: "I was not leaving those babies there." Most of us would have done the same.

In the interview she also said there was another couple with her that morning. In interviews, she said she thinks one of the couple may have followed her into one of the trailers. No doubt LE has asked her to not speak publicly about the case, so IIRC, she hasn't said much about the other couple. Internet speculation has been that they came by to water plants in CRSr's grow op. It's probably safe to assume she knew about it, but perhaps she didn't.

Yes, there's a lot we don't know. Yes, it's reasonable for LE to focus efforts on the people who discovered the bodies. It's also reasonable for LE to focus on the last people to see the victims alive. Until very recently, with the raid on the Wagner family farms, there was no indication LE was doing that. The murders were over a year ago and it's reasonable to ask why it took LE that long to search the properties of one of the last people to see the victims, who was having a disagreement with them.

It's also reasonable to ask why an outside reward for information was initially discouraged and later, information about the CrimeStoppers reward was not publicized until someone in the news media asked about it. In any investigation like this, it's expected for LE to distribute posters and information about the reward to generate tips, but that wasn't done for many months. The only poster created and distributed was done a few months ago by surviving family members.

The case has been locked down. Secrecy and sparse communication with the public and news media have become routine.

As for political motivations and conspiracies, we don't know. Similar things have happened before in the history of US crime. Neither DeWine nor Gov. Kasich are likely comfortable having to deal with this horrible crime, but it comes with the job description. Two major daily newspapers have concerns about the way the case has been handled and have filed suit to view the unredacted final autopsies. Neither of these newspapers has a history of muckraking, both have a long history of treating Ohio government leaders extremely favorably. The fact that they have concerns is significant. Cincinnati Enquirer and Columbus Dispatch rarely step out of line on coverage of state politicians. In the past, many have considered them the "dogs that don't bark". The fact that they're barking now, all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court, says a great deal.

You made some good points in this post. I just wanted to echo your sentiments here. [emoji106]


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[Jennifer17]

Maybe they look happy because they know regardless of what happens, they'll not be held responsible. They may be a wealthy, powerful family that's been accustomed to having things their way. This may be the biggest crime they've been part of, but they may have been above the law in other instances. They probably have good attorneys and friends in high places who've always taken care of things for them. Some locals probably hold them in high esteem because of their power, their money, their history in the community, their friends at church.

They probably think when all this has blown over, they can return and pick up where they left off or move on to greener pastures. If they were involved in the deaths, they may feel justified in what they've done.

Or they may be posting the happy pics to indicate that they are not in the slightest worried, when they well may be very worried.

 

[Betty P]

Or they may be posting the happy pics to indicate that they are not in the slightest worried, when they well may be very worried.

It doesn't appear LE is looking for them, so they probably don't have much reason to worry. Haven't seen the photos, but it sounds like they're taunting everyone back in Pike County saying "Hey, we got away with it." And they may have. They seem like the kind of people used to having others pay for their mistakes. JMO

 

[jk204]

Under which circumstances, a 40y father texts a 23y old kid and a mother texts another mother at 1 or 2am during the night on a Thursday evening, in the school year.

Think about it. Do not sleuth anybody. We don't know what is in the text

 

[cujenn81]

I think one of the reasons I've been more fascinated with this case than others (aside from the fact that an entire family was murdered in their sleep at 4 separate locations in the dead of the night; and not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse) is in large part because there are so many outside factors that MAY OR MAY NOT be related.

We're dealing with a commercial drug grow operation, custody disputes, family disagreements, road rage incidents, possible *advertiser censored* fighting and/or gambling rings, FB threats, unusual dog behavior, the buying/selling/trading/dismantling of an insane number of vehicles (remember allll those cars they had towed away...) and TBH, who knows what else.

On top of all that, there's the mother and daughter who were killed in a similar fashion in a nearby town. It's like a scattershot... none of it (or all of it) seems to connect.

We know DeWine LOVES using the jigsaw puzzle analogy (Lord knows, I've heard him use it one too many times in reference to this case), but I'm having a difficult time connecting this 1000-piece puzzle.

Granted, they probably have a better box picture to compare the puzzle pieces to... but I don't understand their timing with these latest developments.

Why would they wait an entire year to track JM, if they suspect he knows something or was withholding information? And, why would LE search land that wasn't even owned by the Ws at the time of the murders?

And I still wonder why they just HAD to move and guard those trailers. This case is so crazy that it's frustrating.


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[rsd1200]

Interesting theory. I've thought about a theory that involves the W family approaching a M family member about getting rid of CRsr. Doesn't seem like the M clan (BJM excluded) were very fond of him. So if the W's approached the M's with a plan to get rid of CRsr is it possible that certain M's would be receptive to that idea?

Here's the twist though. The W's fully intended to eliminate the whole R family but didn't tell the M clan that. They used JM and AM to find CRsr location. He'd recently bought the new home for DR and maybe it was assumed he'd be there. So JM drives past DR house and doesn't see Crsr vehicle. He texts JW that he doesn't see the target. So AM starts texting DR asking what she's up to. Maybe she asks if CRsr is there, maybe not.

They find where CRsr is and make their move. There's animosity between the men so they beat and shoot CRsr and GR multiple times. They move over to FR place. They see BR sleeping on the couch so they quietly move past him to the bedroom. They shoot FR and HHG. They know they woke up the kid so they exit through the bedroom window.

On to DR house. Depending on the layout of the house, they kill DR or HR first and second. If the rumors and LM comments are to be believed, the shots woke up CRjr and he tried to hide between his bed and the wall so I'm guessing he was last.

I still think KR was killed early that next morning by someone else that knew he had cash and took advantage of the circumstances to take it.

That too is an interesting theory. I've had a couple of theories on why KR, but, and if your theory turns out to be right, maybe they didn't like KR either, and negotiated. Take out CR1 if you want but get KR and GR while your at it, and we feed you info, and turn a blind eye.

That part about CR2 just gets to me though. It really bothered me to learn about where/how they found him. I can't imagine how afraid he must've been, and to have possibly seen a familiar face too. I really hope they're close to getting whoever did this.

 

[JusMeJim]

Under which circumstances, a 40y father texts a 23y old kid and a mother texts another mother at 1 or 2am during the night on a Thursday evening, in the school year.

Think about it. Do not sleuth anybody. We don't know what is in the text

It's already been previously mentioned that the text between the 2 guys was sent at around 9 pm.

In regards to the other text....let me say. I'm a circulation manager for a newspaper, so I get up at 2 am and oftentimes I'm out and about all hours of the early morning. It would probably surprise you that almost every car I meet has someone on the phone. I often wonder who are all these people talking too at 2, 3, 4 am.

Also DR hadn't been off work for long so she was most likely still up and winding down.

 

[Canaille]

Under which circumstances, a 40y father texts a 23y old kid and a mother texts another mother at 1 or 2am during the night on a Thursday evening, in the school year.

Think about it. Do not sleuth anybody. We don't know what is in the text

Well, as a parent, I just came up with the thought of a 40 yo father texting a 23 yo... "Is Junior with you?"