OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #27

[Dudly]

Thanks rsd1200 for the link. First time I have seen Mr. DS.

Was there a sense of urgency to Mr. DS's story about telling whomever it was that they needed to call 911? If cell reception is poor then that explains why they had to "go up the road." Gives credence to JM and AM's texts being sent well before the estimated Time of Death, but not received until later.

This case, or should I saw cases are fascinating... I'm team Leonard. I don't think he had a thing to do with these murders. He's a smart man, very smart.

I think there were grows too. The garage (DR's I believe) and a small wooden shed with a curved roof and partially hidden by a tree. I can't remember which video I saw the wooden shed. It was very inconspicuous. Now if whomever owned them was getting to a point they proved to be competition to another larger grower that might put you in someone sights - literally!

First case I have heard of texts saving one's hide - if it is to be. Fascinating!

DR's property did not have a grow operation from what I remember reading....

 

[rsd1200]

Thanks rsd1200 for the link. First time I have seen Mr. DS.

Was there a sense of urgency to Mr. DS's story about telling whomever it was that they needed to call 911? If cell reception is poor then that explains why they had to "go up the road." Gives credence to JM and AM's texts being sent well before the estimated Time of Death, but not received until later.

This case, or should I saw cases are fascinating... I'm team Leonard. I don't think he had a thing to do with these murders. He's a smart man, very smart.

I think there were grows too. The garage (DR's I believe) and a small wooden shed with a curved roof and partially hidden by a tree. I can't remember which video I saw the wooden shed. It was very inconspicuous. Now if whomever owned them was getting to a point they proved to be competition to another larger grower that might put you in someone sights - literally!

First case I have heard of texts saving one's hide - if it is to be. Fascinating!

This is going back a year in time, and, once again being skeptical of someone who found the scene, but, DS has always struck me as "sketchy". His interview seemed rehearsed except for the part when he misspoke and said he "draped" his head. I didn't buy the tearing up either. He said he told LR he didn't need to see this? This what? He hadn't even been inside yet. Then after you find your cousin with a "gunshot wound" to their head, do you call 911, or do you go wandering around the property? Wandering around the property. Surprise, there's a tray of illegal pot plants, then it occurs to him, that he might want to call 911... and walk, all the way back down KR's lane, 255', then on up the road, to find a signal. They drove there, why not use the vehicle? I guess they could have been in shock but I'd not have really wanted to traipse around the property, to "discover" the pot plants, and then traipse back up the driveway to the main road, if I'd just found my cousin murdered, and I already knew seven other of my kin had been murdered, just a few miles away. I'd have driven and waited up by LR's place at 799 LF. Just sayin.

 

[Betty P]

In the extended interview, LE said, they were both inside. I guess that could mean a trailer as much as any of the out buildings.

I recall early on some of us took a good look at the helicopter footage of CR Srs property. Other than the garage, there wasn't any electrical lines running to any of the other outbuildings, sheds, etc. on the property, To have a grow op in April in Ohio, you would need to have some sort of climate control over the winter. Seems likely many of the seedling trays etc. were in Chris Sr's trailer or garage. Kenny's would have been in that small shed. I don't think the plants they had were very big, just early seedlings getting ready to be planted outdoors.

 

[Betty P]

DR's property did not have a grow operation from what I remember reading....

Correct. Three grow "operations" at 2 locations. Chris Sr's and KR's shed.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I recall early on some of us took a good look at the helicopter footage of CR Srs property. Other than the garage, there wasn't any electrical lines running to any of the other outbuildings, sheds, etc. on the property, To have a grow op in April in Ohio, you would need to have some sort of climate control over the winter. Seems likely many of the seedling trays etc. were in Chris Sr's trailer or garage. Kenny's would have been in that small shed. I don't think the plants they had were very big, just early seedlings getting ready to be planted outdoors.

People who live in the boonies frequently use propane for heating. Unlike our boonie grandparents' propane tanks that were the size of horses (and we played on them like they were horses), tanks are frequently placed underground now.

 

[wlb22]

nor of bodies being removed from the crime scenes. The media usually can snap a photo of a body bag being carried out of a scene or at least a photo of le holding up sheets/screens blocking onlookers from seeing the victims being removed. I only recall seeing an aerial shot of a trailer and a lone dog tied up on an adjacent patch of dirt.

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I have two theories on this...
1...the street was blocked off early on so no news were allowed near any of the homes
2...there was a time lapse between when the bodies were discovered and when it became public knowledge in the community as a whole so they were able to remove the bodies without pubicity

 

[Adt1984]

I have two theories on this...
1...the street was blocked off early on so no news were allowed near any of the homes
2...there was a time lapse between when the bodies were discovered and when it became public knowledge in the community as a whole so they were able to remove the bodies without pubicity

I think there's some truth to both of these theories. My husband was in Piketon the morning it happened and he heard about it before it was on the news. Someone told him about it over the CB around 11:30AM and he called me because the word then was a teenage boy had killed his family and was on the loose. The story quickly changed. The local news broke with the story around 12-12:30PM. I'm not sure how quickly they were able to remove the bodies but there was a several hour window before the news picked up on the murders.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

This might help. Especially, as Granny, Ice9, and others have pointed out, when you don't often check your phone for messages, or coverage is spotty, or have it in airplane mode, you can get a flood of messages that were sent at all times during the day. The timestamp field in the programming code, equals the time that the sender's mobile network received the message from the sender's phone. This is not always correct. See the link for further information. There is even an app, the developer who wrote it talks about it in the link. It's called SMS Sent Time.

About SMS Sent Time:
Many Android devices only display the timestamp when a message was received (not sent). This is a problem when you receive messages while your phone is turned off (or has no network coverage). In this case you don't know when the message was really sent (as you only see the received time when you turn on the phone again). It appends the sent time to the message text (the original timestamp will be kept untouched).

If this is not what you were after let me know. Here is the link where SMS Sent Time's developer talks about the app and the timestamp field.

https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2695980

Many people I know have started using FB Messenger exclusively to send and receive SMS/MMS and, of course, longer messages. They permit or choose for messenger to be their default messaging app. That could come into play here. I'm sure most of y'all know, FB messenger records the time a message was sent and what time the message was read/opened. Although, some if/then apps allow a user to override the timestamp on when a message was read on FB messenger. Data recovery can be a very lengthy process, especially if someone intentionally tries to hide evidence. Maybe the investigation is taking so long because they are trying to nail down everyone's timelines with available data??

 

[Betty P]

I think there's some truth to both of these theories. My husband was in Piketon the morning it happened and he heard about it before it was on the news. Someone told him about it over the CB around 11:30AM and he called me because the word then was a teenage boy had killed his family and was on the loose. The story quickly changed. The local news broke with the story around 12-12:30PM. I'm not sure how quickly they were able to remove the bodies but there was a several hour window before the news picked up on the murders.

I just checked the first thread on this sad case. The first posts began around 11:34 that morning, so the news media coverage probably began shortly before this. IIRC, the mods started a thread pretty quickly.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ne-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-1

At that point, Union Hill Rd had already been closed and BCI in charge of the case and crime scene. If memory serves, Union Hill Rd. was closed to everyone but LE and residents at least until May 12, when the trailers were moved. Apparently, some news helicopters were allowed to take aerial footage, but not for long. Most of the footage showed LE searching the outside of the trailers.

ETA: The first incorrect statement about grow ops at 3 locations came from Mike DeWine, according to this story

http://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/watch-live-investigators-give-updates-on-pike-co-homicides

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I thought I would throw this out here so we could all pick it over and punch holes in it. Anyone who has any thing else please add to it.

Fact: Reader said this was "bigger than a grow op, than stolen cars, than cockfighting."
Drug trafficking would be bigger than grow ops.

Fact: Dewine said "We know more about the criminal activity that has been going on in Pike county for decades."
JW, GW4 and JM's kids could not be involved in a decades long criminal enterprise. Even one decade and they would be just out of their teens. Two, just out of diapers.

Fact: BCI had a huge amount of cars towed from the crime scene.
What did they find out about those cars to tow them? Or what did they find in them? Were they being used as a safe place to store drugs before those drugs were moved along the Highway 23 corridor?

Fact: Reader/BCI had the mobile homes/crime scenes towed.
Why? What was in them?

Fact: BCI had an enclosed trailer belonging to the W's towed.
What was in it?

Fact: The highway 23 drug task force were among LE that searched the W's property.
They investigate drug smuggling along the Highway 23 corridor.

Fact: The Peterson RD farm was in JW and GW4's name but GW3 and AW lived there with them.
Why was the farm in their kids name? Was their credit rating not high enough to finance it? To keep creditors from leveraging it?

Fact: Both JW and his grandparents GW2 and FW's property was searched.
Why was the grandparents property searched? What were they looking for? Why was the Highway 23 task force and SWAT called in to search their property?

Fact: CR1, KR, DR, JM, BJM, GW3, and AW are all about the same age.
Pike county is small population wise. Did they know each other for a long period of time?

Fact: The R's, M's, and W's have all lived in Pike county for generations.
They all lived about 10 miles from each other. Did they all attend school together?

Fact: JM sent a text message to JW's phone the night of the murders.
If the house was in the son's name because of credit rating, were the cell phones also in JW's name for the same reason?

Fact: LM says that text message was sent at 9:00 PM, LE said at 2:00 AM.
We assume the text was sent to JW. Could it have been sent to GW3?

Fact: The money appears to be with the W's. Nice house, big horse ranch, ect.
Could they have been the head of a criminal ring that goes back decades?

Fact: CR1 had 30k to pay down on DR's new home.
Could that be money earned with the W's? Such as providing a place to store drugs before they were moved on along the Highway 23 corridor?

Fact: LE believes JM and BJM are involved and or withholding information.
Could the M's, R's, and W's been involved in some kind of criminal activity together?

Fact: LM said when asked if JM and JW were friends "No. Other than seeing each other at the derby's and stuff." JM and JW did not know each other that well.
But was he friends with GW3?

Fact: LM when asked about his kids involvement said "I would stake my life that my son and daughter did not kill the family. I don't know about the rest of them....I guarantee it."
But could other members of a crime ring involving them all be responsible? Could CR1 have threatened to expose them all if the W's went after full custody of little SW?

 

[mamamumbles]

said "I would stake my life that my son and daughter did not kill the family. I don't know about the rest of them....I guarantee it."
But could other members of a crime ring involving them all be responsible? Could CR1 have threatened to expose them all if the W's went after full custody of little SW?

Trying to clip this from Raisinisback. This last sentence is quite a theory, and would make total sense based on everything else you posted. Great post!

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[IceIce9]

I have no link for this because it was a discussion with DeWine on (attorney) Bill Cunningham's radio show on WLW. This was approximately four weeks after the crime. Bill had asked DeWine if it was Mexican drug cartel related because of the cash found strewn around at one of the murder sites. Said it sounded to him like a statement from a drug cartel, maybe a threat to others in the area who had marijuana grow operations. DeWine said it was a complex situation and mentioned other illegal activities including fencing stolen cars or parts.

I actually have this this on a podcast and will try to find it to listen and get it word for word. But one thing that was mentioned is that DR sold a large amount of cars under her name.

 

[Dudly]

I have no link for this because it was a discussion with DeWine on (attorney) Bill Cunningham's radio show on WLW. This was approximately four weeks after the crime. Bill had asked DeWine if it was Mexican drug cartel related because of the cash found strewn around at one of the murder sites. Said it sounded to him like a statement from a drug cartel, maybe a threat to others in the area who had marijuana grow operations. DeWine said it was a complex situation and mentioned other illegal activities including fencing stolen cars or parts.

I actually have this this on a podcast and will try to find it to listen and get it word for word. But one thing that was mentioned is that DR sold a large amount of cars under her name.

LE determined none of the cars were stolen or illegal in a way to hold them. They were released to the family.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I thought I would throw this out here so we could all pick it over and punch holes in it. Anyone who has any thing else please add to it.

Fact: Reader said this was "bigger than a grow op, than stolen cars, than cockfighting."
Drug trafficking would be bigger than grow ops.

Fact: Dewine said "We know more about the criminal activity that has been going on in Pike county for decades."
JW, GW4 and JM's kids could not be involved in a decades long criminal enterprise. Even one decade and they would be just out of their teens. Two, just out of diapers.

Fact: BCI had a huge amount of cars towed from the crime scene.
What did they find out about those cars to tow them? Or what did they find in them? Were they being used as a safe place to store drugs before those drugs were moved along the Highway 23 corridor?

Fact: Reader/BCI had the mobile homes/crime scenes towed.
Why? What was in them?

Fact: BCI had an enclosed trailer belonging to the W's towed.
What was in it?

Fact: The highway 23 drug task force were among LE that searched the W's property.
They investigate drug smuggling along the Highway 23 corridor.

Fact: The Peterson RD farm was in JW and GW4's name but GW3 and AW lived there with them.
Why was the farm in their kids name? Was their credit rating not high enough to finance it? To keep creditors from leveraging it?

Fact: Both JW and his grandparents GW2 and FW's property was searched.
Why was the grandparents property searched? What were they looking for? Why was the Highway 23 task force and SWAT called in to search their property?

Fact: CR1, KR, DR, JM, BJM, GW3, and AW are all about the same age.
Pike county is small population wise. Did they know each other for a long period of time?

Fact: The R's, M's, and W's have all lived in Pike county for generations.
They all lived about 10 miles from each other. Did they all attend school together?

Fact: JM sent a text message to JW's phone the night of the murders.
If the house was in the son's name because of credit rating, were the cell phones also in JW's name for the same reason?

Fact: LM says that text message was sent at 9:00 PM, LE said at 2:00 AM.
We assume the text was sent to JW. Could it have been sent to GW3?

Fact: The money appears to be with the W's. Nice house, big horse ranch, ect.
Could they have been the head of a criminal ring that goes back decades?

Fact: CR1 had 30k to pay down on DR's new home.
Could that be money earned with the W's? Such as providing a place to store drugs before they were moved on along the Highway 23 corridor?

Fact: LE believes JM and BJM are involved and or withholding information.
Could the M's, R's, and W's been involved in some kind of criminal activity together?

Fact: LM said when asked if JM and JW were friends "No. Other than seeing each other at the derby's and stuff." JM and JW did not know each other that well.
But was he friends with GW3?

Fact: LM when asked about his kids involvement said "I would stake my life that my son and daughter did not kill the family. I don't know about the rest of them....I guarantee it."
But could other members of a crime ring involving them all be responsible? Could CR1 have threatened to expose them all if the W's went after full custody of little SW?

Adding to it after reading it.

Fact: Reader said there are family members and others who know more than they are telling and encourages them to come forward even though they may be involved in the criminal activity but not the murders.
Could this be why the tracker was put on JM's vehicle? He is involved in the criminal activity and LE wants to see who else is involved?

Fact: JM bought the truck in March 2017. LE said the truck was used or allowed to be used in the crime of aggravated murder.
Could the former owners be involved in a trafficking ring also involving the R's W's and M's? Is there a connection between them and the W's and R's?

Fact: LM has consistently said when asked who he thinks killed his daughter and family "I don't want to comment on that." He reluctantly admitted the investigation seems to be headed toward the W's.

 

[IceIce9]

LE determined none of the cars were stolen or illegal in a way to hold them. They were released to the family.

I find it kind of disturbing that vehicles can be seized without evidence of a crime.

 

[Betty P]

said "I would stake my life that my son and daughter did not kill the family. I don't know about the rest of them....I guarantee it."
But could other members of a crime ring involving them all be responsible? Could CR1 have threatened to expose them all if the W's went after full custody of little SW?

Trying to clip this from Raisinisback. This last sentence is quite a theory, and would make total sense based on everything else you posted. Great post!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

It's been my top theory all along. Through his MJ growing (which was probably only a few years old, if that) he ran into people in the business who were involved in much more dangerous/sketchy activities. He knew to keep his mouth shut, but at some point, someone saw him as a threat. I don't see him as dumb enough to rip off a dealer or steal product or money from dangerous dealers/bosses. But perhaps someone asked him to get involved in something higher risk (opiates, coke, etc.) Even if he turned them down, he became a threat.

BTW: the vehicles were all returned to the surviving family members and are still part of the probate process. They probably wouldn't give them back if they were part of something illegal. CRSr was smart enough to avoid the illegal stuff (hauling drugs, chop shop, etc) but he probably knew a lot of people who were.

ETA: I think LE knew this as well. From the first minutes after the 911 call, they probably thought this was something involving bigger criminals. That's why BCI took charge immediately and closed off public access to all information about the crimes.

But why did they push the FBI away? Why do they go to such great lengths to keep the FBI out of the investigation?

 

[OsoTejano]

I think that the alleged criminal activities by the Rs are secondary to the motivations behind the murders themselves. It's probable that LE has obtained information under cover of the murder investigation to launch unrelated investigations into other criminal activities in the area. From all appearances, it looks like the R family was scraping together a modest living by mostly legal means with some small scale pot farming on the side. That said, there is a possibility that this could have been a murder for hire.


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[rotary_dial]

I find it kind of disturbing that vehicles can be seized without evidence of a crime.

They are lucky any of it was returned. Ever read up on civil forfeiture? Govt has been overstepping their boundaries for a long time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States



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[RAISINISBACK]

It's been my top theory all along. Through his MJ growing (which was probably only a few years old, if that) he ran into people in the business who were involved in much more dangerous/sketchy activities. He knew to keep his mouth shut, but at some point, someone saw him as a threat. I don't see him as dumb enough to rip off a dealer or steal product or money from dangerous dealers/bosses. But perhaps someone asked him to get involved in something higher risk (opiates, coke, etc.) Even if he turned them down, he became a threat.

BTW: the vehicles were all returned to the surviving family members and are still part of the probate process. They probably wouldn't give them back if they were part of something illegal. CRSr was smart enough to avoid the illegal stuff (hauling drugs, chop shop, etc) but he probably knew a lot of people who were.

ETA: I think LE knew this as well. From the first minutes after the 911 call, they probably thought this was something involving bigger criminals. That's why BCI took charge immediately and closed off public access to all information about the crimes.

But why did they push the FBI away? Why do they go to such great lengths to keep the FBI out of the investigation?

We don't know if they gave them all back. They could have kept one or two, if they had drugs or traces of drugs in them. With all those cars it would be hard to determine if LE kept a couple of them.

But he may have picked up a few extra dollars by allowing someone to store drugs in those cars for a day or two.

 

[Betty P]

I think that the alleged organized criminal activities are secondary to the murders themselves. It's probable that LE has obtained information under cover of the murder investigation to launch unrelated investigations into other criminal activities in the area. From all appearances, it looks like the R family was scraping together a modest living by mostly legal means with some small scale pot farming on the side. That said, there is a possibility that this could have been a murder for hire.


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It would explain why Reader has said "We're getting closer. We will find you." Sounds like he may not know who the actual killers were, but knows which players are involved in planning it.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ws-conference-pike-county-killings/100409216/

But Reader did offer a warning: "You came in like thieves in the night and took eight lives, some being children, in the most horrific way that I've ever seen in my 20-plus years. We are getting closer. We will find you."

When DeWine talks of decades of criminal activity, that could mean MJ (it's been cultivated on a large scale in rural Applachia region since the 1970's), but probably includes other stuff like auto chop shops, etc. that have been going on probably since Prohibition. Time passes and the "organized" criminal scene evolves to drugs like opiates, heroin, coke, etc. Criminal groups (gangs, families, etc.) evolved along with the times, from one generation to the next.

But I have a difficult time believing at least some in LE didn't know about it. Small towns, sparsely populated areas, cops have to find out about this stuff, especially if it's been going on so long.