OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #28

[Flatbush]

Do we know as a fact there was a prisoner? Or is it our assumption from the presence of the OCSD?

There was a prisoner reported by news sources. No identity listed. There was a picture, but removed fairly quickly. I believe the article was in a Dayton newspaper, not sure.
He was said to have been in the company of the department of corrections. Thats all I know, everything is secret ya know?

 

[Flatbush]

BBM

Maybe they were asked and refused to take one.

Judging from what we are reading that is coming from their own mouth, I don't think LE needs a lie detector test to know they aren't telling the truth. It is glaringly obvious.

I have made no secret that I am on the side of LE. I think they are a lot of hard working individuals who sacrifice their time with their families to solve crimes and they put their lives on the line every time they put on a badge. There are some bad "apples" but to give LE credit it is usually the co-workers of the bad "apples" who catch them and bring them to justice.

I think that the BCI agents who are investigating this are as qualified and as capable as any other LE in the USA. They searched the W's property. They had a good reason to search it. They had evidence they put before a judge to get that search warrant. That judge deemed that evidence enough probable cause to issue that search warrant.

Yes the W's are innocent until proven guilty. That is the way it is in this country and I wouldn't have it any other way. But I also have the right to believe that if LE got a search warrant to search that property, then LE has evidence to prove the W's are involved in the R murders. I believe in the justice system and I also believe in the old saying "where there is smoke, there is fire."

LM who was outraged enough by what he saw as false accusations to throw out to the public that search warrant detailing exactly what evidence LE had to go on to put a GPS tracker on his son's truck, is way more believable than AW who declined to show the reporter the search warrant or even talk about what evidence LE had to issue it or what they took and why.

That search warrant LM had, was in part issued based on evidence of a text message JM sent to JW. I will repeat that, evidence of a text message. To believe JW's statement that it didn't happen, then we have to believe that not only is LE lying, but also whatever phone carriers JM and JW has.
So if we are all to jump on the bandwagon of the W's are innocent, they are being framed by LE and this is a conspiracy against them, then we have to believe that not only are the BCI and AG DeWine in on it but also a judge and the employees of at least one and maybe two cell phone carriers. So excuse me if I refuse a ride on that bandwagon

As far as the statement that HR dropped SW off at the W's the Friday before. If we are to believe this statement, then we have to believe that JW himself lied when he said he picked her up. If he lied about that, what else has he lied about? This is a glaring inconsistency that I hope the BCI has jumped all over. Maybe we will see some progress in this case if BCI hauls JW and AW in to sweat them a little about the inconsistencies in this article.

As far as a polygraph, I for one will not be holding my breath waiting for any of the W's to take one. Because I don't think it is ever going to happen.

HR had a c-section with the last baby 4 days prior. I had a c-section myself, ouch. She was young though, so anybody's guess if she was out and about. May never know, the ones that would know are dead. Unless maybe she told a friend or relative.

 

[rsd1200]

Regarding lie detector tests, Jody Barr reported this:

Since the initial interrogation, Len said his son has submitted to a lie detector test as part of the investigation, but “failed” that examination.

Bobby Jo Manley told FOX19 NOW that she’s submitted to three tests and “passed each one of them,” she said standing on her father’s porch Tuesday afternoon.

Len, though, says he has no confidence that investigators will make arrests in the murders of his daughter and the other victims.

"As dumb as these guys is?" Leonard said, then laughed.

"I always said, 'they couldn't catch a cold,'" said Leonard. "And I'll say it til the day I die."

http://www.fox19.com/story/35453014...of-arrests-investigators-couldnt-catch-a-cold

I cannot find where the Ws have submitted to any lie detector tests. That doesn't seem fair since, even though they are considered innocent until proven guilty, the motive for them was quite obvious.

No one has to submit to a polygraph test, and law enforcement are permitted to lie to you. I'd not take one, and I'm not guilty of hurting anyone. I'd not even talk to LE w/o a lawyer present if I were being looked at by LE in any case, let a lone a case of this magnitude, I'd invoke my Miranda rights and say not another word.

For example, how do we know they're being truthful with JM?:
Consider the following true story:
A suspect requested a polygraph test, and the police hooked the suspect up to a fake machine. During the questioning, the suspect denied any involvement in the crime, then the police show the defendant a fake graph from the fake machine, and tell the suspect that they know he is lying. The suspect thereafter admits being present at the scene of the crime - The court ruled the defendant's admission is a voluntary and admissible confession. People v. Mays (2009) 173 Cal App. 4th 1145

Ten Ways LE Can Lie to You:
http://www.njmoorelaw.com/10-ways-police-can-lie-to-you

 

[GoofyJen]

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rossco...eward-with-pike-county-sheriff-charlie-reader

This is a podcast from a few weeks ago, and focuses on the reward money. You can 'feel' Charlie's desire to solve this case. He also puts out a calm, yet firm threat to the folks who aren't telling LE the whole story.

 

[Agent.99]

I am a strong advocate for having a custody arrangement with a court order attached. It sounds as if that is exactly what they were doing here, Parties agreed to a week on week off arrangement and were just getting a legal document affirming same. However....AW was posting on AK sites prior to the murders. 50/50 custody is impossible if one parent lives in Ohio and the other in Alaska.
The only way that isn't sketchy is if the W boys had no intention of moving with their parents but in the end changed their minds.

 

[StarrChance]

No one has to submit to a polygraph test, and law enforcement are permitted to lie to you. I'd not take one, and I'm not guilty of hurting anyone. I'd not even talk to LE w/o a lawyer present if I were being looked at by LE in any case, let a lone a case of this magnitude, I'd invoke my Miranda rights and say not another word.



For example, how do we know they're being truthful with JM?:
Consider the following true story:
A suspect requested a polygraph test, and the police hooked the suspect up to a fake machine. During the questioning, the suspect denied any involvement in the crime, then the police show the defendant a fake graph from the fake machine, and tell the suspect that they know he is lying. The suspect thereafter admits being present at the scene of the crime - The court ruled the defendant's admission is a voluntary and admissible confession. People v. Mays (2009) 173 Cal App. 4th 1145

Ten Ways LE Can Lie to You:
http://www.njmoorelaw.com/10-ways-police-can-lie-to-you

Agree 100%. Son in LE told me exactly the same advice, innocent or guilty.

 

[Jennifer17]

I am a strong advocate for having a custody arrangement with a court order attached. It sounds as if that is exactly what they were doing here, Parties agreed to a week on week off arrangement and were just getting a legal document affirming same. However....AW was posting on AK sites prior to the murders. 50/50 custody is impossible if one parent lives in Ohio and the other in Alaska.
The only way that isn't sketchy is if the W boys had no intention of moving with their parents but in the end changed their minds.

Or maybe just disappear with her, but AW let the cat out of the bag by joining AK facebook sites.

 

[rsd1200]

I can see SW going with her father on the 15th, Kylie was born on the 17th. Seems quite possible she would be with the W's while HR was in the hospital. JW took SW to the hospital to visit her new sister.

I am curious about the time up to the murders, KR2 in a interview said HG watched the baby, no mention of SW while they went fishing. If SW was home I think KR2 would of said HG watched KR and SW. I find it strange 4 days after giving birth HR would go fishing.

There is a tendency to believe everything LM has to say, maybe because he is the only info we get. There was some talk earlier that JM and CRsr didn't get along, it seems the Manley's had a falling out with the Rhoden's.L M in one interview said he didn't go around CRsr place then a few weeks later said he drove cars to get transferred and was paid $50. to do so. I can see CRsr being friends with the W's as he more than likely done work at the flying W.

It has been said HR was CRsr princess, he didn't approve of CH or CG. I belong to a R group that has a few family members actually 2 groups 1 has R the other has M. In the group the M's are in they will answer questions on occasion the other group stays pretty silent BR answered a lot about how the head stone. They all have foot stones, and there is a headstone being made it should be paced in the next few weeks.It seems the Rhoden family has been in charge as BR said his aunt designed it,nothing was mentioned of the Manley's.

First, if I understand correctly, you are kin to the families? I was not aware, and am so very sorry for your family's loss, and pain this past year. I cannot even imagine. You have my utmost sympathies.

I've been pondering your post and, based on HRM's ultrasound, and I can't put my finger on it now about a date that was posted, I thought the baby was born a bit earlier than anticipated. That would lead me to believe that maybe S was there, and it was Thur. night that she was picked up. However the article that speaks to that, seems to not give a direct quote from JW. So, I'm a bit flummoxed over the differing time frames.

I'd not heard about the going fishing four days after giving birth, that's new information for me. Even at the height of youth, and health, at age 19, it's just, well, I can't imagine how that could be very enjoyable, or comfortable. Our daughter wasn't bedfast (she was 19 w/her first) but she wasn't really ready to go traipsing around the farm to sink a line and she's got a pretty high pain threshold. Please don't take this in a bad, or snarky way, but I find that fishing trip a bit odd.

I agree about LM. He's vocal, and speaks his mind, when he speaks. I'm not calling him a liar, but, I do think he speaks, before he thinks, sometimes.

I got the feeling from HMR's FB, just from a comment that DR had made, that maybe they weren't happy w/her b/f choice. Didn't know if meant anything or not, but coming from her momma, I thought it might.

Thank you for sharing with us.

 

[Nickandnora]

Do I read this right? HR went fishing with KR2 and HG just before the murders?

Also, what do you mean you belong to a R group? Are you related?

It was in one of KR2 interviews, they went fishing and that is when they made plans for KR2 to sleep over. R group is Facebook group

 

[Nickandnora]

rsd1200 I apologize if I made you think that I am kin, I am not just been following along since day 1. if I have time tonight I am going to search for the fishing article it wasn't some time ago. I know when I read it I thought wow that is quick to be out

 

[rsd1200]

I am a strong advocate for having a custody arrangement with a court order attached. It sounds as if that is exactly what they were doing here, Parties agreed to a week on week off arrangement and were just getting a legal document affirming same. However....AW was posting on AK sites prior to the murders. 50/50 custody is impossible if one parent lives in Ohio and the other in Alaska.
The only way that isn't sketchy is if the W boys had no intention of moving with their parents but in the end changed their minds.

I wonder if JW was even planning a move prior to the murders? If so, he'd most likely have taken her for his week, and then just disappeared to AK. They'd not have left footprints all over the internet if their intention was to murder eight people and start a new life in AK. I mean, if that was their intention, they're dumb as rocks. think they'd have at least tried to have been smart enough to have played it closer to the vest, kind of like Conn the con from eastern, Ky. I know if I had the means to move from that area after my child's other parent, grandparents, and maternal family, were basically slaughtered, I would. Even if it were just the next county over, so that I didn't have to drive her past there.

 

[rsd1200]

rsd1200 I apologize if I made you think that I am kin, I am not just been following along since day 1. if I have time tonight I am going to search for the fishing article it wasn't some time ago. I know when I read it I thought wow that is quick to be out

Oh, no problem. I just misunderstood. Just when I think I can't find anything more that I've not heard nor read, I do. Thanks again though, I'd missed it or forgotten it.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Finally got the quote function to work....

You are a straight shooter! I appreciate that fact.

I believe the fact that, according to LM, JM failed the poly combined with the text message between JM and JW prompted LE to place the GPS tracker on the truck.

I watched an old Forensics File regarding the murder of a young woman, and once the main suspect failed the poly, LE immediately began tailing him.

Additionally, if the Ws original story was caught on film and now we have version 1.2 and that is also captured on film, I believe LE can and should subpoena to get those interviews.

I believe JM could be a witness as to when S was actually picked up that fateful night and not earlier as JW story Version 1.2. I suspect LM, AM and JM + others were witness or had knowledge regarding custody dispute.

Did JM lie when asked during the poly about not knowing who committed the murders? Can only speculate.

Will LM have response based on the newest claims by the W's? I bet JM's lawyer will advise that they do not respond.

BBM

You are a straight shooter! I appreciate that fact.

Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. I have to be in the business I am in. I tell my clients up front that I am brutally honest and I am going to tell them the truth whether they want to hear it or not. The reason for this, is if my clients even catch a whiff of deceit or half truths they will never trust me entirely. And they have to trust me with everything, even their most secret dealings.

So if I appear to be too blunt on here, blame it on too many years in this career.

Hubby on the other hand, is much more tactful. He has to be in his field because he has to get people to talk to him. He has to get information from them and he tells them up front that he is probably going to use that information against them. So he has to appear sympathetic, softer. because he is asking hard questions that people often don't want to answer.

He tells me every day that I would not last ten minutes in his business, and I tell him that my clients would walk all over him. What a pair we are.

 

[Jennifer17]

BBM

You are a straight shooter! I appreciate that fact.

Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. I have to be in the business I am in. I tell my clients up front that I am brutally honest and I am going to tell them the truth whether they want to hear it or not. The reason for this, is if my clients even catch a whiff of deceit or half truths they will never trust me entirely. And they have to trust me with everything, even their most secret dealings.

So if I appear to be too blunt on here, blame it on too many years in this career.

Hubby on the other hand, is much more tactful. He has to be in his field because he has to get people to talk to him. He has to get information from them and he tells them up front that he is probably going to use that information against them. So he has to appear sympathetic, softer. because he is asking hard questions that people often don't want to answer.

He tells me every day that I would not last ten minutes in his business, and I tell him that my clients would walk all over him. What a pair we are.

And all this time, I thought that you were a man.:shame:

 

[RAISINISBACK]

And all this time, I thought that you were a man.:shame:

Wow. Maybe it is my hard core attitude? IDK. I have talked about hubby a few times on here. Probably more than other posters want to read.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM

You are a straight shooter! I appreciate that fact.

Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. I have to be in the business I am in. I tell my clients up front that I am brutally honest and I am going to tell them the truth whether they want to hear it or not. The reason for this, is if my clients even catch a whiff of deceit or half truths they will never trust me entirely. And they have to trust me with everything, even their most secret dealings.

So if I appear to be too blunt on here, blame it on too many years in this career.

Hubby on the other hand, is much more tactful. He has to be in his field because he has to get people to talk to him. He has to get information from them and he tells them up front that he is probably going to use that information against them. So he has to appear sympathetic, softer. because he is asking hard questions that people often don't want to answer.

He tells me every day that I would not last ten minutes in his business, and I tell him that my clients would walk all over him. What a pair we are.

I had to use tact in my line of work, and lots, and lots, of patience. I enjoyed what I did, and where I worked, but not every day will be sunshine and roses, no matter what you do or where you do it. I don't really sugar coat, but, being blunt in my line would not have been a good thing in most instances.

 

[Betty P]

Checking facts. Who said the warrant for the GPS was based on that text message. Unless I am wrong, I haven't seen this as a statement from LE. LM said it.

Do I believe more LM or JW ? I don't know.

I do agree these warrants were issued and LE came with force for good reasons. Also, the story on HR/JW handover of S** is inconsistent.

Agree. It's also relevant to note that LE has not come with a 33 unit caravan of armed officers and SWAT & crime scene vans to search the properties of LM, JM or BJM, nor any other surviving relatives of the Rhoden/Manley/Gilley families.

LE hasn't revealed much about their investigations, but those raids speak volumes. For the most part, M's have cooperated with LE. especially LM. W family left town. They've only spread dubious, conflicting information via the news media. Many of us have said all along, anyone who leaves the area after these murders is suspicious.

 

[Betty P]

Good point. Would love to know how their conversation went when he saw her after she gave birth.

Sadly, anyone who might know is now dead. Unless something was said to a friend. Was anything mentioned on her (HR's) FB? There was likely a short time frame between JW's visit and the massacre, she may not have said much on social media, though it's possible she called or texted friends.

ETA: To clarify, JW may not have expressed anger when he visited HR and new baby in the hospital, but he may have expressed his feelings more when he went to DRs home to pick up SR just prior to her murder. So many inconsistencies in stories about where HR was and what she did in the hours before her death. Obviously, she encountered JW somewhere. He took SR home with him at an unscheduled time. JMO, there was likely some kind of confrontation with HR.

 

[Obiwankenobi]

And all this time, I thought that you were a man.:shame:

Me too! Hahaha!

 

[rsd1200]

Agree. It's also relevant to note that LE has not come with a 33 unit caravan of armed officers and SWAT & crime scene vans to search the properties of LM, JM or BJM, nor any other surviving relatives of the Rhoden/Manley/Gilley families.

LE hasn't revealed much about their investigations, but those raids speak volumes. For the most part, M's have cooperated with LE. especially LM. W family left town. They've only spread dubious, conflicting information via the news media. Many of us have said all along, anyone who leaves the area after these murders is suspicious.

I don't think they've left the lower 48. I think that they went up there on a family getaway and have come back. If they're up there, they're looking for a place to live.

ETA: It's been a month now and it seems nothing has come from the searches. I'm leaning toward believing the Ws that the search warrants were not specific, other than where they could search and on what addresses.