OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #29

[Dudly]

JW quote: " I did this for her (SW) best interest." Kind of ominous don't you think?

Is he really talking about moving her to Alaska or something else?

That is taking a quote out of context. He was talking about moving at the time.

 

[Bootsctr]

Rhoden family massacre: Wagner family tries to make new home in Alaska

KENAI, Alaska — Colorful Little Tikes plastic playhouses and slides dot the Wagner family’s new backyard.

The four-wheelers are parked nearby, just off the side of the gravel driveway and out of the way of the now-emptied 40-foot trailer that hauled the family’s possessions 4,107 miles from Adams County last month.

There are the 4-wheelers. I wonder how many they have - 2 or 4?

 

[Bootsctr]

That is taking a quote out of context. He was talking about moving at the time.

Has he ever spoken about Justice for Hannah and the rest of the massacre victims? No anger that the murderers are still running around scott free while family members on the maternal side of the child's family are buried 8 feet deep in Ohio? I don't get it.

 

[Betty P]

Why the pro life extremists? She didn't abort anything?

Pro-life religious extremists are also radical about extra-marital sex, having children out of wedlock, etc. Not sure how much they were part of the murders, but they could have been part of a group or local subculture that helped stoke the fires of irrational anger and dangerous retribution that helped some people rationalize the massacre of an entire family. JMO, the killings may have had dual motives - threat to the local drug trade and misplaced extreme moral outrage about the custody and paternity controversy surrounding HMR's children.

It's a dilemma that many ultra religious, church-going conservatives deal with these days - the fact that their own family members use and deal in drugs while having children out of wedlock. That's the W family in a nutshell and there are millions of others like them. They want to condemn others but ignore or rationalize the problem within their own family and friends. It's logical to also assume some of those people justify becoming involved in the drug trade. Despite their piety, members of the extended W family were involved in drug use and likely some aspects of dealing and selling. They may have also been involved in the planning and/or murdering of 8 people in 1 family. Sometimes you get so caught up in your own self-righteousness that you rationalize horrible things.

The whole situation becomes extremely awkward for those higher up the political chain in LE, where pols routinely campaign on throwing drug users and dealers in jail. What do you do when your investigation into a family massacre leads you to a group of drug dealers who are also self-professed conservative Christians?

It's not uncommon. The US has it's own history of murder by religious cults, religious leaders murdering family members, preying on innocent children. It shouldn't be a stretch to realize that some of these folks might also be running drug rings.

ETA: It calls to mind the psychological tactic of "othering", mentally classifying someone as not part of your group or belief system and therefore inferior to you and not deserving of respect. Recent murders like that of 13 yo Nicole Lovell by two college students who were raised in very religious backgrounds, where they were taught to abstain from sex before marriage.

https://therearenoothers.wordpress.com/2011/12/28/othering-101-what-is-othering/

BTW, Ohio has a very big,powerful movement to teach abstinence before marriage. IIRC, it actually receives state funding. Can't underestimate the public power of those groups.

ETA#2: That also reminds me of another place to look for some kind of monetary fraud: Check for any possible links to state money given to Pike County area groups, businesses and organizations for educational, public health or charitable/community "outreach" purposes. Yes, Ohio does give state taxpayer money to religious organizations.

Links:

https://www.odh.ohio.gov/odhprograms/chss/ad_hlth/Ohio Abstinence Education Program.aspx

https://www.odh.ohio.gov/-/media/OD...cent-health/allabstinenceedcontacts.pdf?la=en

https://www.odh.ohio.gov/-/media/OD...olescent-health/abstinenceedregions.pdf?la=en

 

[Dudly]

Has he ever spoken about Justice for Hannah and the rest of the massacre victims? No anger that the murderers are still running around scott free while family members on the maternal side of the child's family are buried 8 feet deep in Ohio? I don't get it.

From interviews with the local people, the Rhodens got what they had coming for doing things they shouldn't do. There doesn't seem to be any anger or
concern for justice. They have moved on...

 

[rsd1200]

If they waited that long to search the W's properties, I find it hard to believe that they didn't have their act together, (especially with all of those folks that came there to aid in the search), that if there were any connections to the Rs, Ws, and drug trafficking, that they didn't find a single connection, or a tiny speck of drugs. We don't know that they didn't already send LEOs out to search the homes earlier but it didn't make the news b/c there weren't an army of LE w/an amphibious vehicle going down the road.

The Rhoden's property and cars were returned to the families. LE loves to confiscate drug bust property. The Rhoden pot plants has varied from 2,000 plants, to 1,200, to pot found at all sites, to three grows at two sites, to, finally, "a couple little grows" per Reader.

The only thing they confiscated from the Ws was a single trailer. I believe the two four-wheelers belonged to LE.

LE loves to confiscate stuff, and have auctions, especially in poor counties. I've no doubt they'd have seized any property they could have in relation to the Rs or the Ws, if it could have been connected to drugs in any way. They made the R family look bad from day one so what would seizing their property matter? They've had a year to investigate any drug trafficking between the two families, and the rest of Pike County, get search warrants, and lower the boom.

Seems LE had their act together here though:

Multiple searches led to the seizure of approximately $10,000 cash, one recreation vehicle, four ATV’s, two motorcycles, nine vehicles, 26 pounds of methamphetamine (found in a raid in Preble County) and an estimated 70 prepaid credit cards used in the funding and trafficking of drugs.

http://www.portsmouth-dailytimes.com/news/17184/23-arrested-in-drug-ring

26 pounds of meth goes for around $8k -$12k per pound, or $1k per ounce, and I'm lowballing it. Now the folks in the above story were dealing some drugs.

Look at the Ws new digs in AK. Look at their old digs in Piketon. Not saying it was a bad place, it wasn't, but with four adults and two children, they were going to outgrow that house real soon. I just don't see heavy drug dealing in either the Ws nor the Rs. Prior to moving to that little house most all the Ws were registered as living at the Bethel Rd place and there's pretty much nothing there now. I do have a feeling the Ws were/are in debt up to their ears.

I think it's highly possible that R & G murders could have happened whether there were pot grows or not. Could they have used that as a reason to try and throw LE off and try to have them looking in the direction of drugs? Could be.

[FONT=&quot]And those who carried it out were trying to do everything they could do to hinder the investigation and their prosecution." ~ Dewine[/FONT]

Just thinking.

 

[jk204]

Pro-life religious extremists are also radical about extra-marital sex, having children out of wedlock, etc. Not sure how much they were part of the murders, but they could have been part of a group or local subculture that helped stoke the fires of irrational anger and dangerous retribution that helped some people rationalize the massacre of an entire family. JMO, the killings may have had dual motives - threat to the local drug trade and misplaced extreme moral outrage about the custody and paternity controversy surrounding HMR's children.

It's a dilemma that many ultra religious, church-going conservatives deal with these days - the fact that their own family members use and deal in drugs while having children out of wedlock. That's the W family in a nutshell and there are millions of others like them. They want to condemn others but ignore or rationalize the problem within their own family and friends. It's logical to also assume some of those people justify becoming involved in the drug trade. Despite their piety, members of the extended W family were involved in drug use and likely some aspects of dealing and selling. They may have also been involved in the planning and/or murdering of 8 people in 1 family. Sometimes you get so caught up in your own self-righteousness that you rationalize horrible things.

The whole situation becomes extremely awkward for those higher up the political chain in LE, where pols routinely campaign on throwing drug users and dealers in jail. What do you do when your investigation into a family massacre leads you to a group of drug dealers who are also self-professed conservative Christians?

It's not uncommon. The US has it's own history of murder by religious cults, religious leaders murdering family members, preying on innocent children. It shouldn't be a stretch to realize that some of these folks might also be running drug rings.

ETA: It calls to mind the psychological tactic of "othering", mentally classifying someone as not part of your group or belief system and therefore inferior to you and not deserving of respect. Recent murders like that of 13 yo Nicole Lovell by two college students who were raised in very religious backgrounds, where they were taught to abstain from sex before marriage.

https://therearenoothers.wordpress.com/2011/12/28/othering-101-what-is-othering/

BTW, Ohio has a very big,powerful movement to teach abstinence before marriage. IIRC, it actually receives state funding. Can't underestimate the public power of those groups.

ETA#2: That also reminds me of another place to look for some kind of monetary fraud: Check for any possible links to state money given to Pike County area groups, businesses and organizations for educational, public health or charitable/community "outreach" purposes. Yes, Ohio does give state taxpayer money to religious organizations.

Links:

https://www.odh.ohio.gov/odhprograms/chss/ad_hlth/Ohio Abstinence Education Program.aspx

https://www.odh.ohio.gov/-/media/OD...cent-health/allabstinenceedcontacts.pdf?la=en

https://www.odh.ohio.gov/-/media/OD...olescent-health/abstinenceedregions.pdf?la=en

You captured what I meant. I agree, ideology doesn’t have to be the primary motive, it can be in the culture of the assaillants.

It's one of the angles to consider in the environment of the different parties involved.

 

[Betty P]

From interviews with the local people, the Rhodens got what they had coming for doing things they shouldn't do. There doesn't seem to be any anger or
concern for justice. They have moved on...

That's pretty sad. Why did they think Rhodens did that was so much worse than what any of them do? It doesn't sound like they were doing heavy drugs or killing people. Growing some MJ, having kids out of wedlock is not unusual down there, certainly doesn't justify mass murder. For being poor, maybe? Talking too loud? Not knowing their "place"? Not going to the "right" church enough times a week?

It would be interesting to know why some of these people think this way. Obviously it wasn't a common opinion.

 

[jk204]

If they waited that long to search the W's properties, I find it hard to believe that they didn't have their act together, (especially with all of those folks that came there to aid in the search), that if there were any connections to the Rs, Ws, and drug trafficking, that they didn't find a single connection, or a tiny speck of drugs. We don't know that they didn't already send LEOs out to search the homes earlier but it didn't make the news b/c there weren't an army of LE w/an amphibious vehicle going down the road.

The Rhoden's property and cars were returned to the families. LE loves to confiscate drug bust property. The Rhoden pot plants has varied from 2,000 plants, to 1,200, to pot found at all sites, to three grows at two sites, to, finally, "a couple little grows" per Reader.

The only thing they confiscated from the Ws was a single trailer. I believe the two four-wheelers belonged to LE.

LE loves to confiscate stuff, and have auctions, especially in poor counties. I've no doubt they'd have seized any property they could have in relation to the Rs or the Ws, if it could have been connected to drugs in any way. They made the R family look bad from day one so what would seizing their property matter? They've had a year to investigate any drug trafficking between the two families, and the rest of Pike County, get search warrants, and lower the boom.

Seems LE had their act together here though:

Multiple searches led to the seizure of approximately $10,000 cash, one recreation vehicle, four ATV’s, two motorcycles, nine vehicles, 26 pounds of methamphetamine (found in a raid in Preble County) and an estimated 70 prepaid credit cards used in the funding and trafficking of drugs.

http://www.portsmouth-dailytimes.com/news/17184/23-arrested-in-drug-ring

26 pounds of meth goes for around $8k -$12k per pound, or $1k per ounce, and I'm lowballing it. Now the folks in the above story were dealing some drugs.

Look at the Ws new digs in AK. Look at their old digs in Piketon. Not saying it was a bad place, it wasn't, but with four adults and two children, they were going to outgrow that house real soon. I just don't see heavy drug dealing in either the Ws nor the Rs. Prior to moving to that little house most all the Ws were registered as living at the Bethel Rd place and there's pretty much nothing there now. I do have a feeling the Ws were/are in debt up to their ears.

I think it's highly possible that R & G murders could have happened whether there were pot grows or not. Could they have used that as a reason to try and throw LE off and try to have them looking in the direction of drugs? Could be.



Just thinking.

Yes. I agree. All of it. Including the debt part although we don't have it as a fact, except for a comment from JW in july 2016 interview saying he maxed out his cc.

 

[Betty P]

You captured what I meant. I agree, ideology doesn’t have to be the primary motive, it can be in the culture of the assaillants.

It's one of the angles to consider in the environment of the different parties involved.

It's a mentality that's as old as the hills, so to speak.

"If it weren't for your trashy daughter, my son never would have had premarital sex!" Nevermind that he initiated relations with her when she was only 14 and he was 19.

"If it wasn't for your trashy daughter and your family, my son would never have smoked MJ, or taken meth/heroin/whatever." By most accounts, CRSr and KR were only involved in selling MJ. It doesn't appear any were tweakers, they all worked long hours, took care of their families. That's not something you can do if you're a drug addict.

 

[jk204]

It's a mentality that's as old as the hills, so to speak.

"If it weren't for your trashy daughter, my son never would have had premarital sex!" Nevermind that he initiated relations with her when she was only 14 and he was 19.

"If it wasn't for your trashy daughter and your family, my son would never have smoked MJ, or taken meth/heroin/whatever." By most accounts, CRSr and KR were only involved in selling MJ. It doesn't appear any were tweakers, they all worked long hours, took care of their families. That's not something you can do if you're a drug addict.

To be fair, I was not targeting anyone in particular with that comment. There were a lot of people around the victims. js

 

[amauet1]

I don't think the W's are "hurting" that much for cash. They sold a lot of livestock/belongings before leaving. They "sold" their property/home (or land contract). They have their family/church helping and supporting them. In the "Chris Graves" article from Alaska, she reported that in Alaska they have a "58 billion Permanent Fund that provides a 1000 dollar check to every Alaska resident annually. Two parents, two brother's and 2 children would add up to 6000 dollars a year. (I don't know what time of year, it wasn't reported). I'm sure the small place they live in now will be upgraded as soon as possible in the future. Their just waiting till the "lasor focus" is over on them, before moving again.

 

[Betty P]

I don't think the W's are "hurting" that much for cash. They sold a lot of livestock/belongings before leaving. They "sold" their property/home (or land contract). They have their family/church helping and supporting them. In the "Chris Graves" article from Alaska, she reported that in Alaska they have a "58 billion Permanent Fund that provides a 1000 dollar check to every Alaska resident annually. Two parents, two brother's and 2 children would add up to 6000 dollars a year. (I don't know what time of year, it wasn't reported). I'm sure the small place they live in now will be upgraded as soon as possible in the future. Their just waiting till the "lasor focus" is over on them, before moving again.

You also have to wonder about the timing of the raids. If BCI had conducted the raids before they left for Alaska, they might found some drugs and been forced to confiscate a lot of W assets. Instead, they were allowed to take most of their assets and get out of town.

JMO, they're getting "kid glove" treatment by LE. Imagine if roles were reversed, would the Rhoden family have received the same treatment? Just wondering, something to think about.

 

[rsd1200]

Pro-life religious extremists are also radical about extra-marital sex, having children out of wedlock, etc. Not sure how much they were part of the murders, but they could have been part of a group or local subculture that helped stoke the fires of irrational anger and dangerous retribution that helped some people rationalize the massacre of an entire family. JMO, the killings may have had dual motives - threat to the local drug trade and misplaced extreme moral outrage about the custody and paternity controversy surrounding HMR's children.

It's a dilemma that many ultra religious, church-going conservatives deal with these days - the fact that their own family members use and deal in drugs while having children out of wedlock. That's the W family in a nutshell and there are millions of others like them. They want to condemn others but ignore or rationalize the problem within their own family and friends. It's logical to also assume some of those people justify becoming involved in the drug trade. Despite their piety, members of the extended W family were involved in drug use and likely some aspects of dealing and selling. They may have also been involved in the planning and/or murdering of 8 people in 1 family. Sometimes you get so caught up in your own self-righteousness that you rationalize horrible things.

The whole situation becomes extremely awkward for those higher up the political chain in LE, where pols routinely campaign on throwing drug users and dealers in jail. What do you do when your investigation into a family massacre leads you to a group of drug dealers who are also self-professed conservative Christians?

It's not uncommon. The US has it's own history of murder by religious cults, religious leaders murdering family members, preying on innocent children. It shouldn't be a stretch to realize that some of these folks might also be running drug rings.

ETA: It calls to mind the psychological tactic of "othering", mentally classifying someone as not part of your group or belief system and therefore inferior to you and not deserving of respect. Recent murders like that of 13 yo Nicole Lovell by two college students who were raised in very religious backgrounds, where they were taught to abstain from sex before marriage.

https://therearenoothers.wordpress.com/2011/12/28/othering-101-what-is-othering/

BTW, Ohio has a very big,powerful movement to teach abstinence before marriage. IIRC, it actually receives state funding. Can't underestimate the public power of those groups.

ETA#2: That also reminds me of another place to look for some kind of monetary fraud: Check for any possible links to state money given to Pike County area groups, businesses and organizations for educational, public health or charitable/community "outreach" purposes. Yes, Ohio does give state taxpayer money to religious organizations.

Links:

https://www.odh.ohio.gov/odhprograms/chss/ad_hlth/Ohio Abstinence Education Program.aspx

https://www.odh.ohio.gov/-/media/OD...cent-health/allabstinenceedcontacts.pdf?la=en

https://www.odh.ohio.gov/-/media/OD...olescent-health/abstinenceedregions.pdf?la=en

I am not posting these to offend anyone, or start any hot bed discussions, but BettyP's articles made me think of reading this, and, what I would call, extreme behaviours and justification, w/regard to religious belief. To fervently disagree with someone is one thing. To target them in such a manner is completely different.

We humans have a way of convincing ourselves of our utter rightness.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfund...y-in-the-life-of-a-former-sidewalk-counselor/

Hope this isn't against TOS.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't think the W's are "hurting" that much for cash. They sold a lot of livestock/belongings before leaving. They "sold" their property/home (or land contract). They have their family/church helping and supporting them. In the "Chris Graves" article from Alaska, she reported that in Alaska they have a "58 billion Permanent Fund that provides a 1000 dollar check to every Alaska resident annually. Two parents, two brother's and 2 children would add up to 6000 dollars a year. (I don't know what time of year, it wasn't reported). I'm sure the small place they live in now will be upgraded as soon as possible in the future. Their just waiting till the "lasor focus" is over on them, before moving again.

JW had maxed out his CC getting custody of S. They didn't make that much off of the sale of the farm. All of those animals required food. A lot of food. They sold those pigs and such, if the price they got, was what was listed, for not near what others get for them, and had to feed them over the period of the past year they were selling them off. Unless you really know what you are doing, you can lose boo cooos of money in those animal ventures.

They won't get the Perment check for the year 2017, you have to live there for a full calendar year to qualify, and it does not stay the same amount each year. It fluctuates up and down.

In sniffing around, I just don't see the W3s and 4s as having massive amounts of money. You can look like you're livin' large when you're livin' on credit.

 

[rsd1200]

You also have to wonder about the timing of the raids. If BCI had conducted the raids before they left for Alaska, they might found some drugs and been forced to confiscate a lot of W assets. Instead, they were allowed to take most of their assets and get out of town.

JMO, they're getting "kid glove" treatment by LE. Imagine if roles were reversed, would the Rhoden family have received the same treatment? Just wondering, something to think about.

We don't know that the interiors of the homes had not been searched previously especially w/ "custody" being one of the first words out of LM's mouth. Everything is sealed and silent. LEOs could have gone in and searched those homes in the beginning and everyone was so focused on the family and the funerals and Mexican Cartels that no one would have noticed and the Ws aren't telling, other than to say much more than, We have cooperated (which is about all that I'd say to the public if I were in their shoes, tbh).

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I am not posting these to offend anyone, or start any hot bed discussions, but BettyP's articles made me think of reading this, and, what I would call, extreme behaviours and justification, w/regard to religious belief. To fervently disagree with someone is one thing. To target them in such a manner is completely different.



http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfund...y-in-the-life-of-a-former-sidewalk-counselor/

Hope this isn't against TOS.

I don't want to start a discussion on pro or con, but as everyone here has read I was raised strict Pentecoastal. IMO my son is addicted to religion/Bible. He is 100% pro life.

Although I personally would never have gotten an abortion, I do not believe it is my right to judge others. If a woman does not want a child she has conceived and can live with the fact she had an abortion, then so be it. Again it is not my place to judge and not my sin so therefore not my business.

My son and I have had many arguments over this to the point it is a forbidden subject in my house and his (hubby lowered the hammer on us with that at a family dinner a few years back) so we no longer argue about it.

But I will say this. Almost every single anti-abortion law introduced into Congress on both the state and federal level has been introduced by a man who did not have to have the child or in most cases raise it.

Something to ponder over when you need a break from this case.

 

[Dudly]

If they waited that long to search the W's properties, I find it hard to believe that they didn't have their act together, (especially with all of those folks that came there to aid in the search), that if there were any connections to the Rs, Ws, and drug trafficking, that they didn't find a single connection, or a tiny speck of drugs. We don't know that they didn't already send LEOs out to search the homes earlier but it didn't make the news b/c there weren't an army of LE w/an amphibious vehicle going down the road.

The Rhoden's property and cars were returned to the families. LE loves to confiscate drug bust property. The Rhoden pot plants has varied from 2,000 plants, to 1,200, to pot found at all sites, to three grows at two sites, to, finally, "a couple little grows" per Reader.

The only thing they confiscated from the Ws was a single trailer. I believe the two four-wheelers belonged to LE.

LE loves to confiscate stuff, and have auctions, especially in poor counties. I've no doubt they'd have seized any property they could have in relation to the Rs or the Ws, if it could have been connected to drugs in any way. They made the R family look bad from day one so what would seizing their property matter? They've had a year to investigate any drug trafficking between the two families, and the rest of Pike County, get search warrants, and lower the boom.

Seems LE had their act together here though:

Multiple searches led to the seizure of approximately $10,000 cash, one recreation vehicle, four ATV’s, two motorcycles, nine vehicles, 26 pounds of methamphetamine (found in a raid in Preble County) and an estimated 70 prepaid credit cards used in the funding and trafficking of drugs.

http://www.portsmouth-dailytimes.com/news/17184/23-arrested-in-drug-ring

26 pounds of meth goes for around $8k -$12k per pound, or $1k per ounce, and I'm lowballing it. Now the folks in the above story were dealing some drugs.

Look at the Ws new digs in AK. Look at their old digs in Piketon. Not saying it was a bad place, it wasn't, but with four adults and two children, they were going to outgrow that house real soon. I just don't see heavy drug dealing in either the Ws nor the Rs. Prior to moving to that little house most all the Ws were registered as living at the Bethel Rd place and there's pretty much nothing there now. I do have a feeling the Ws were/are in debt up to their ears.

I think it's highly possible that R & G murders could have happened whether there were pot grows or not. Could they have used that as a reason to try and throw LE off and try to have them looking in the direction of drugs? Could be.



Just thinking.

Other than LE saying the Rhodens were doing something illegal, without showing proof, there is nothing to show they were into any illegal enterprises. Reader didn't seem to think the grow operations were substantial enough to get them killed over it. Nothing was said about any cars confiscated being illegal. It makes you wonder if everything will ever be known. What bothers me the most, other than the murders, is the absolute secrecy of everything by LE. It's baffling...They have been making progress in the case for 14 months. How much more progress do they need? It seems like they still haven't completely cleared the first people they should have been investigating. Is it possible they really don't know who did this?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don't think the W's are "hurting" that much for cash. They sold a lot of livestock/belongings before leaving. They "sold" their property/home (or land contract). They have their family/church helping and supporting them. In the "Chris Graves" article from Alaska, she reported that in Alaska they have a "58 billion Permanent Fund that provides a 1000 dollar check to every Alaska resident annually. Two parents, two brother's and 2 children would add up to 6000 dollars a year. (I don't know what time of year, it wasn't reported). I'm sure the small place they live in now will be upgraded as soon as possible in the future. Their just waiting till the "lasor focus" is over on them, before moving again.

I think the W's were into trafficking. I think they were making good money at it, good enough to pay cash for a 175000.00 house. But with the murders came increased scrutiny and a radical decrease in cash flow. I think the last year has been hard on them with the law nosing around and them unable to do business as usual.

In addition I think CR1 was doing some trafficking also. You basically had a man who was unemployed. Yes I have seen the ragged tarp covered trailers in the photos. But think about this, Around 2014 if I remember RSD1200's research right, CR1 began buying property. He also acquired his sisters interest in his fathers land. I think this was because he paid them for that. Then there is that huge new barn built around 2014 also. Yes they did return some of the cars to family (we have no way of knowing if they returned all of them or not), but think how much CR1 had invested in those cars. I have been doing some checking and even if they were taken to the metal scrap yard they would have brought between 400 to 600 dollars each. Some of those cars looked pretty new or at least not old junkers. He was buying them at auction so we have to assume others were bidding on them so I am thinking some of those cars brought around 5000.00 each. Then you have the heavy equipment he had. Even used that is very expensive. I looked up some bulldozers, dump trucks ect and even those made in 1995 goes for 15000.00 and some higher than that at almost 30000.00 Speaking of 30000.00 cash, he paid that much down on DR's new home. So all in all, even if CR1 looked dirt poor, he was making enough money to buy all that stuff in just a couple of years. He did not make that money buying and selling cars, some of it yes, but the profit margin would have been very low. He had to buy the car, buy parts tag it, and then he wasn't selling them very high so he wasn't getting rich doing it. he did not make that much money doing an occasional job for BBL.

Did DR know? I think so. I think that's why she left him and moved into a house of her own.

Did LM know? It's doubful, but I do think BJM most definitely did.

Did KR know? Absolutely, but I don't think he was heavily involved in it other than maybe making a few "auction" runs. DS I feel sure knew.

JM I think was a part of it, although a very limited part as his financials are not as clear, but AM came up with 8000.00 pretty fast. I am certain AM's family were all involved so at the very least her and JM knew.

Maybe RSD1200 can refresh us on the timeline that those cars and buildings began appearing on the UHR property.

All this is JMO.

 

[Betty P]

Speaking of timelines, here's the one I recently updated. I'm sure there are other items you all want to add. Just let me know. We need to add any info that came up subsequent to W's moving to Alaska.

Rhoden Murders Timeline:

2012 – AG DeWine issued press release announcing LE had discovered “a major marijuana grow site” in Pike County with suspected ties to a Mexican drug cartel. During the discovery, 1200 plants were destroyed by investigators and two abandoned campsites were located, which they believe had belonged to Mexican nationals.

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306329-Media-amp-Timeline-NO-DISCUSSION-Pike-Co-OH-8-Family-Members-Murdered>


Feb 2016: Box of marijuana discovered at Piketon Post Office, investigation leads to discovery of "shatter" operation

10 days prior to murders: A Facebook threat is made by a teen saying he will "Go up to Union Hill and take them all out"

4 days prior to murders: Hanna R gives birth

2 days prior to murders: Woman sentenced in road rage incident court case involving Chris Jr.

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5&p=12509140&posted=1#post12509140>

Thursday, 4/21/2016


8am: Dana arrives at work - Hillcrest Nursing Home

11pm: Dana leaves work - Hillcrest Nursing Home - 14 miles away per CNN

Approx 11:20 pm - Dana arrives home



Friday, 4/22/2016

1 am: April Manley, sister in law of Dana Rhoden, exchanges text messages with Dana
[video=youtube;bf4ObgRJ_Xo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4ObgRJ_Xo[/video]
2 am: James Manley texted Jake Wagner, ex-boyfriend of Hanna Rhoden and father of her oldest daughter

Between 1 am and 7 am - the following were murdered

Bodies found at 3122 UHR: Dana, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden Jr.
Bodies found at 4077 UHR: Chris Sr. and Gary (3 GSW to head)
Bodies found at 4199 URH: Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilley
Body found near 799 LFR: Kenneth Rhoden (1 GSW to head)

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page55>


7:15 am: Bobby Jo Manley, sister of Dina Rhoden, arrives at Chris Sr.'s property to feed his animals. She says she was with two friends, identities have varied, not confirmed.
7:15 to 7:40?: She uses a key to unlock the front door and sees the bodies of Gary & Chris Rhoden Sr. Exact time not known
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

7:49 am: Bobby Jo calls 911

ibid.


7:53 am: PCSO Dep. Music and Dep. Chandler are dispatched to 4077 Union Hill Road in response to the 7:49 am 911 call from BJM.
Approx 7:55 am: Billy Jo Manley runs next door to trailer of Frankie Rhoden & Hannah Gilley. Door is locked, she hears toddler inside, asks him to open the door. She then discovers the bodies of Frankie & Hannah. She takes the children outside to her car.
Ibid.
7:15 – 7:53 am: Sometime after discovering the bodies, Billy Jo Manley calls her brother James Manley. He and his son go to the home of Dana Rhoden and discover she is dead. According to his wife, James doesn’t go further into Dana’s home, though he can see her legs and hear a baby crying.
Ibid

8:07 am: Dep. Chandler arrived "at a neighboring residence where he was flagged down by a subject. Dep. Chandler advised that he needed multiple ambulances due to multiple down at multiple residences."

8:12 am: Dep. Music, Dep. Ball, and Maj. Evans all arrived "on scene" where they were approached by [Redacted] who stated: "there are two more dead people here." [Redacted] pointed to the residence at 4077 Union Hill.

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page57>

8:07 am – 8:17 am: Time of death declared for victims.


8:21 am: PCSO request for assistance sent to BCI (Source CNN -- I will have to fetch a link)
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>

12:13 pm: at least 4 BCI Crime Scene Unit trucks are seen at the intersection of Hwy 32 and Union Hill Road headed towards the crime scenes. (Source: tweet including a photo made by Gannett Ohio reporter @saranealeigh)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>


1:26 pm Friday: Donald Stone calls 911 to report Kenneth's body

1:36 pm -- Ohio AG Mike DeWine issues a press release: 7 people murdered in "execution-style killings"
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

1:49 pm – Time of death listed for Kenneth Rhoden
http://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...-family-death-certificates-released/85051602/

Saturday, 4/23/2016

3:41am - LE arrives at Bobby Jo Manley's residence to question her; 5 others also questioned

??: Kenny Rhoden (cousin) calls 911 in Greenup Co, KY stating he is being chased by a green Chrysler.

Sunday, April 24, 2016
Autopsies performed by Hamilton County Medical Examiner in Cincinnati, OH
https://mgtvwcmh.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/pike-county-final-autopsies-redacted.pdf
http://nbc4i.com/2016/09/23/attorney-general-releases-autopsies-for-rhoden-family-members/

April 28, 2016 - Funeral for Gary Rhoden, South Shore, KY
April 30, 2016 - Funeral for Hannah Gilley in Ottway, OH
May 3, 2016 - Funeral for Rhoden family - Chris Sr, Dana, Frankie, Hanna, Chris Jr. and Kenneth
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news...always-scar-this-town/yRPTKlTHsLqHb2kAg3M2lN/
Thursday, May 12, 2016
Trailers of family members Chris Rhoden Sr, Frankie Rhoden & Kenneth Rhoden were sealed and moved to storage at Hasdell Chemical Co. in Waverly, OH. Dana Rhoden’s trailer was moved later.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...nty-mobile-homes-moved-crime-scenes/84288652/

May 27, 2016
Death certificates released to news media
http://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...-family-death-certificates-released/85051602/
Times of death:
8:07 am – Chris Rhoden, Sr, Gary Rhoden
8:11 am – Frankie Rhoden, Hannah Gilley
8:17 am – Dana Rhoden, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden, Jr.
1:49 pm – Kenneth Rhoden

August 2016
Jacob Wagner, father of Hanna Rhoden’s older daughter, lists his family farm for sale. Location is 260 Peterson Rd, Peebles, OH

Sometime after murders and before May 2017 raid on Wagner properties, it is determined through testing that JW is not the father of Hanna Rhoden’s second child.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...-away-scene-rhoden-family-massacre/101600436/

Saturday, April 22, 2017
Pike County LE place a GPS tracking device on truck owned by James Manley, brother of Dana Manley Rhoden. LE claims it was placed there because the truck was related to an aggravated murder case
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ng-pike-county-massacre-case-court/101773632/

Friday, April 28, 2017
11:35 am - James Manley finds and removes tracking device and destroys it
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ng-pike-county-massacre-case-court/101773632/


About May 5, 2017
Jacob Wagner asks ___ Brown if he can store some trailers on his property. He tells him his farm is sold and he and his brother have found good paying jobs “up north” and are moving there. He needs to move out of farm for new owners. JW drops off 3 trailers at the Brown property “a week before the search”.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...assacre-more-search-details-emerge/101713414/

May 5 – May 12, 2017
Sometime after dropping off 3 trailers loaded with furniture and personal possessions, Jacob Wagner and family leave the area. Later posts on FB show photos of them in a location resembling areas in Alaska or Canada.

Friday, May 12, 2017
Abt 11 am - PCSO, BCI, Adams County SO, Ohio Dept of Corrections STAR and other Ohio LE agencies conduct a search at properties related to Jacob Wagner & family.
260 Peterson Rd, Peebles, OH – farm formerly owned by Wagner’s parents, where JW resided with his mother, father, brother, daughter Sophia Rhoden Wagner and daughter of his brother George.
Unlimited Motors, St Hwy 41, Peebles, OH – Auto repair business and farm of ___ Brown, friend of J Wagner.
Ibid
Saturday, May 13, 2017
LE team raids Flying W Farms. Franklin County Sheriff’s office assists. Their rep claims their SWAT team accompanied the raid, saying they had an arrest warrant. FCSO later retracts the statement. A neighbor of Flying W Farms who witnessed the vehicle caravan entering and leaving the property is interviewed, claiming there was a SWAT vehicle and an ambulance present.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...elative-charged-evidence-tampering/101747576/

http://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/2017/05/16/rhoden-investigation-intensifies/101759968/