OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #29

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM
Especially if you live in a region where folks cannot afford new cars. If you can buy vehicles that have been totaled because of moderate body damage, maybe the air bags deployed (Insurance will total out a decent car with air bags deployed). If someone has a body shop and knows how to reinstall the airbags and do other repairs, yes, they can turn a good profit. People are looking for cheap cars to get to and from doctor's appointments, school, work, etc... What may be cheap to someone else may be expensive to another person. I'd likely not take a chance on a $3k, car with a rebuilt title, but if it's clean, it runs, and you are on a tight budget, then that car is looking better all the time.


I don't know if the map lines are entirely correct, or, if it reflects the right-of-way (which is normally around 30' from the center line here), and is cutting of the back end, or not. This may be normal but it would seem to cut off some of the back of the property as those lines in the front of the property, here anyway, would be considered county right-of-way. Here it is typically 30' from the center line. If the yard is kept clean all the way to the roadway edge they normally don't fool w/the r.o.w. area on your land.

The big barn is around 85' long x 34' wide. It may have been a body shop, or one in the making. Tools are expensive.

On the 2014 aerial shot for the pva, the line from the road, to the red vehicle parked in front of the old yellow house, is right at 30'.

CR1's trailer is outside the lines but if you add the 30' on to the back of the line, it is within boundary.

4077 UHR is actually only .10 of an acre is just a tiny piece of property wedged in there. 16' x 370' ish.

FR's trailer was not on Rhoden property. I see no way that it could be on Rhoden property.

Thank you RSD1200 for your timeline re: the land ect.

Thank you Betty P for your timeline.

You both are awesome!

Ok I priced a metal building 30' x 85' and came up with an estimate of 21500.00. This price is for the frame only. So if we add metal siding to that I am thinking around 35000.00. Is this a fair estimate for that building?

So we have a metal building built in 2014 for 35000.00

We have 2 campers added to a property in 2014 for a cost of about 3000.00?

Purchase of DR's home at 60000.00 with a 30000.00 down payment in 2016.

Maybe some of you who know their vehicles can look at the photos of those on the property and those towed and estimate what year, make and model they are. If we have that we can look up what that car is worth in the Kelly Blue Book.

Anyone know how to do a real estate search to see what property CR1 bought in the years 2014, 2015, and 2016?

We can kind of get an idea of how much money he was spending in those years I think.

 

[rsd1200]

I have searched and searched for information on the two people who were with her and have found no information. Surely the police would have interviewed them extensively as they could verify the timing and sequence of events after their arrival.

One thing I am very curious about, did these two people usually accompany her when she went to feed the dogs, as I think that's what her purpose was for going to there that morning? Did BJM normally take someone with to help? Did she usually go alone, but on that particular day she took other people along? What was their purpose for going? Were they going along to help BJM feed animals?

If BJM normally went alone but on this day she took others along I would find this very odd.

Manley got up about 6:10 a.m. to wake her 15-year-old daughter by 6:30 a.m. and get her on the bus to school by 7. Then — as she did most every weekday morning — she drove over to the trailer of CR1., 40, to feed his dogs and chickens.
http://www.wgrz.com/news/nation-now/ohio-massacre-i-was-not-leaving-those-babies-in-there/185980446

She lives pretty close and must have picked the friends up on the way.

7:15 am: BJM arrives at CR1's (BettyP's timeline)

7:49 am: BJM calls 911 (911 Call/BettyP's timeline)

From all indications, she went straight from the car, leaving her cell phone charging, to CR1's door, finding it locked, and the dogs on the porch (both oddities according to BJM).

Hearsay at the time had it that they were going somewhere together after BJM finished w/her feeding of the dogs and chickens.

No matter how you look at it, there's a nearly :35 minute gap, between arrival and 911 call. I just can't come up with that much time.

Get out of the car, note things are "off".
Get key, and she knew where the key was so no searching around for a way inside.
Step into a blood soaked den, follow drag marks to the bedroom, run out and grab cell phone.
Make 911 call.

Was something was expected, but maybe not murder?

 

[Venom]

Does anyone else find it odd that BJM arrived at 7:15 and called 911 at 7:49? That's about 30 minutes from the time she found the bodies until she called. I know she had to get the key and unlock the door, but would that take that long to do?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Joe Deters: Colerain Township mass shooting could be a capital murder case



Rick Smith, supervisory special agent in charge of the Cincinnati FBI office, said that while he could not comment on the Colerain Township shooting specifically, federal law allows for the FBI to become involved in shootings with three or more victims.
Some examples of that work include providing expert analysis and laboratory work. Agents may continue to be involved if there is an indication federal laws were violated, he said.





If FBI gets involved in cases with two or more victims then are they involved in the R's murders?

 

[ts51]

I wondered, too, who these people were, because they could easily have noticed the grow ops at CR1, maybe, so they would have had to be trusted to not inform LE of what they saw?..

I have searched and searched for information on the two people who were with her and have found no information. Surely the police would have interviewed them extensively as they could verify the timing and sequence of events after their arrival.

One thing I am very curious about, did these two people usually accompany her when she went to feed the dogs, as I think that's what her purpose was for going to there that morning? Did BJM normally take someone with to help? Did she usually go alone, but on that particular day she took other people along? What was their purpose for going? Were they going along to help BJM feed animals?

If BJM normally went alone but on this day she took others along I would find this very odd.

 

[jk204]

About the people with BJM. Do we know if they arrived in her car or in their own car?

 

[Margo/Mom]

I think the W's were into trafficking. I think they were making good money at it, good enough to pay cash for a 175000.00 house. But with the murders came increased scrutiny and a radical decrease in cash flow. I think the last year has been hard on them with the law nosing around and them unable to do business as usual.

In addition I think CR1 was doing some trafficking also. You basically had a man who was unemployed. Yes I have seen the ragged tarp covered trailers in the photos. But think about this, Around 2014 if I remember RSD1200's research right, CR1 began buying property. He also acquired his sisters interest in his fathers land. I think this was because he paid them for that. Then there is that huge new barn built around 2014 also. Yes they did return some of the cars to family (we have no way of knowing if they returned all of them or not), but think how much CR1 had invested in those cars. I have been doing some checking and even if they were taken to the metal scrap yard they would have brought between 400 to 600 dollars each. Some of those cars looked pretty new or at least not old junkers. He was buying them at auction so we have to assume others were bidding on them so I am thinking some of those cars brought around 5000.00 each. Then you have the heavy equipment he had. Even used that is very expensive. I looked up some bulldozers, dump trucks ect and even those made in 1995 goes for 15000.00 and some higher than that at almost 30000.00 Speaking of 30000.00 cash, he paid that much down on DR's new home. So all in all, even if CR1 looked dirt poor, he was making enough money to buy all that stuff in just a couple of years. He did not make that money buying and selling cars, some of it yes, but the profit margin would have been very low. He had to buy the car, buy parts tag it, and then he wasn't selling them very high so he wasn't getting rich doing it. he did not make that much money doing an occasional job for BBL.

Did DR know? I think so. I think that's why she left him and moved into a house of her own.

Did LM know? It's doubful, but I do think BJM most definitely did.

Did KR know? Absolutely, but I don't think he was heavily involved in it other than maybe making a few "auction" runs. DS I feel sure knew.

JM I think was a part of it, although a very limited part as his financials are not as clear, but AM came up with 8000.00 pretty fast. I am certain AM's family were all involved so at the very least her and JM knew.

Maybe RSD1200 can refresh us on the timeline that those cars and buildings began appearing on the UHR property.

All this is JMO.

Explain what you mean by trafficking? When I hear trafficking I think human trafficking.

 

[Margo/Mom]

I also think the sisters turned over their ownership free of charge. That big barn has always puzzled me. The location and orientation seems strange. It looks like the side away from the road has several large openings. I know maps can be inaccurate but it looked to me that part of it was on the neighbor's property. Some of the cars were even back farther. Fixing cars bought at auctions can be lucrative to someone who can fix them. You can make 100%-200% profit on them.
I agree that we all may in shock when the whole story comes out if it does come out...

Someone who does a lot of repair/resale of cars would also be in a good position to pick up the odd stolen vehicle, or vehicle that had been involved in a crime. We know that there are a lot of drugs flowing through Pike County. This involves a lot of people having a need to change vehicles often. Risky business, but one that likely pays.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Explain what you mean by trafficking? When I hear trafficking I think human trafficking.

Drugs.

 

[Dudly]

Does anyone else find it odd that BJM arrived at 7:15 and called 911 at 7:49? That's about 30 minutes from the time she found the bodies until she called. I know she had to get the key and unlock the door, but would that take that long to do?

It could be completely normal if she fed chickens first then went to get dog food out of the house. But, who knows...

 

[Obiwankenobi]

It could be completely normal if she fed chickens first then went to get dog food out of the house. But, who knows...

I am thinking 35 minutes really isn't that much time. She also could've been mistaken on the time she arrived at CR1's. I'm with you, she probably began her routine and come to realize after a little bit, something was off. She said, I think, she "found" the keys. I know if I have a key hidden outside, I will relocate it if it needs to be used. I think after she discovered what had happened, she ran to her car and phoned 911. After the call, she went to FR's and discovered that scene. Otherwise, she'd been reporting 4 murders. I definitely don't believe she had any knowledge of this horrific event that had taken place just shortly before her arrival. This is a very bizarre case with lots of coincidences, well maybe coincidental, maybe not.

 

[Bootsctr]

I think it could have taken her a while to find the "key." Sounds like she normally walked right in and would holler Rhoden just to let him know it was her feeding the critters. I bet she got very nervous when the door was locked and the two dogs were sitting outside looking at her. She may have fumbled around in locating the keys and have been shaking. She says she has passed 3 lie detector tests. I believe her. But, whomever did this, knew about what time she would be around to feed the animals. I bet they were listening to a scanner or watching her from a distance. Spooky!

 

[rsd1200]

The building has an approx. 9' side bay, then a 10' door, then on the opposite side of the door it's approx 16' wide.


The 9' side bay is approx 8' tall. The peek of the roof with the opening is approx 22'.


30'w x 85'L overall. They may very well have built that building themselves. They had quite a bit of equipment. We didn't do anything anywhere near the same scale but went and bought, and hauled, our own metal siding, snagged some replaced telephone poles for free, got some lumber that was considered imperfect from the local sawmill (in other words it wasn't purty), and had some folks around who were handy with the right equipment, and got our horse shed put up super cheap. If they did their own labor, they could have probably gotten that built for around $20k give or take a couple-three K, based on what the siding was going for at the time, what the interior looks like, if they have dirt, or concrete floors, if they wired it themselves, etc... I'd not rule out getting the Amish to build it either.


As far back as 2009 there was something, if only a shed, or other trailer, at FR's location. So, I think FR may have either been renting, or the plot lines are just "off" (not uncommon for the latter). FR and KR were really the ones into Derbies w/CR2 getting ready to get into them too from what I've understood.


When FR moved in up the road, and was old enough to drive (He turned 16 in 08/2011), and work, I think he followed in KR's footsteps with the derby cars, the car clutter began to come about and the whole family got into it the fun.


In 2010 the car clutter was pretty much non existent, w/the exception of some around the yellow house, which it is said that KR lived there for awhile. Same for 2012, and up to mid 2013 (based on map data I've found). Then, in 2014 up until the murders, the junked cars started to show up.

I think this is about the time they started to get more into the idea of buying other cars that they were running across, and could fix and turn over for a fast profit under STC. Since nearly all of the males in the family worked for BBL I could see this coming together as a business propostion. DR also wrote about going to the car wash to clean up the cars, and not seeing BH there, and missing him.




Side Note on Properties:
The Camp Creek property was purchased for $8k in 2008 from the man who's property butts up to the UHR properties. Could have been a land contract. 2014 shows a trailer but it is not a new trailer


A sister was Et Al over some of the properties for a period of time, then in April, 2011, all that she was et al over, was then changed over to CR1. The properties have a rather cluttered chain of transfer on some of the pieces. We don't get to see the all of the why's and what ifs though. The property that has the garage on it, to the right of where CR1's trailer is located, was sold to CR1 by TR's M.i.l. (just found that interesting). Not all of the land has been in the Rhoden family for generations. More like just since ole man Rhoden acquired it, and then other land has been acquired throughout time.

 

[rsd1200]

I am thinking 35 minutes really isn't that much time. She also could've been mistaken on the time she arrived at CR1's. I'm with you, she probably began her routine and come to realize after a little bit, something was off. She said, I think, she "found" the keys. I know if I have a key hidden outside, I will relocate it if it needs to be used. I think after she discovered what had happened, she ran to her car and phoned 911. After the call, she went to FR's and discovered that scene. Otherwise, she'd been reporting 4 murders. I definitely don't believe she had any knowledge of this horrific event that had taken place just shortly before her arrival. This is a very bizarre case with lots of coincidences, well maybe coincidental, maybe not.

In her 911 call she stated that "the doors was locked when we got here but I knowed where the key was at". @ 1:42.

[video=youtube;mZ7bVwytJTc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ7bVwytJTc[/video]

The dogs were normally inside too, she noted they were outside which was not normal. This is a woman who was very familiar with CR1 and KR's properties.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/


"BJM, LM’s youngest daughter, told the paper that KR had video cameras at his trailer and she said she knew they were there because she used to clean his property. She told the paper she was unsure whether police obtained footage for his cameras."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/1...ieve-two-properties-had-security-cameras.html


Her father, who lives on Union Hill Road less than two miles from three of the four homicide scenes, said CR helped his daughter, who didn’t have a job at the time of the killings. He paid her to feed the animals on his property.

CR and KR were good to his daughter, he said, because she drove their late father to appointments when other members of his family were unable. The Rhoden patriarch died in 2008. His obituary made reference to BJM as a "very special family that he loved so much."


"If I thought she did this, she wouldn't be alive. If she killed my family, she ain't no better than anyone else. I mean that's hard to say,'' he said last month sitting at his kitchen table. "But them people gave her cars, gave her money, gave her a place to live. I mean, who would kill the people who gave you a golden egg every time you needed it?"

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...sacre-no-answers-family-marks-time/100005422/

 

[IceIce9]

Manley got up about 6:10 a.m. to wake her 15-year-old daughter by 6:30 a.m. and get her on the bus to school by 7. Then — as she did most every weekday morning — she drove over to the trailer of CR1., 40, to feed his dogs and chickens.
http://www.wgrz.com/news/nation-now/ohio-massacre-i-was-not-leaving-those-babies-in-there/185980446

She lives pretty close and must have picked the friends up on the way.

7:15 am: BJM arrives at CR1's (BettyP's timeline)

7:49 am: BJM calls 911 (911 Call/BettyP's timeline)

From all indications, she went straight from the car, leaving her cell phone charging, to CR1's door, finding it locked, and the dogs on the porch (both oddities according to BJM).

Hearsay at the time had it that they were going somewhere together after BJM finished w/her feeding of the dogs and chickens.

No matter how you look at it, there's a nearly :35 minute gap, between arrival and 911 call. I just can't come up with that much time.

Get out of the car, note things are "off".
Get key, and she knew where the key was so no searching around for a way inside.
Step into a blood soaked den, follow drag marks to the bedroom, run out and grab cell phone.
Make 911 call.

Was something was expected, but maybe not murder?

So the two unnamed people just sat in the car waiting patiently during the 35 minutes between arrival and 911 call? Did BJM scream, yell, or shout out when stepped into the blood soaked den? Did the two people hear her and become aware that something unusual, frightening, or tragic had happened? Did they wonder why BJM was spending so much time in the trailer when she was supposed to just feed the animals?

Was it out of the ordinary that BJM took people along with her while she fed the animals? Did she usually go alone? Or did others accompany her?

Did she take people with her that morning so that she would have someone to confirm that she was them, and provide an alibi?

Did she expect to find a break in or robbery, but not a murder scene?

 

[rsd1200]

It could be completely normal if she fed chickens first then went to get dog food out of the house. But, who knows...

If I saw the dogs on the front porch, and his usual vehicle not missing, I'd have thought he was home. This is just me though, I'd have probably went straight to the door, as she seems to have described, if only to see if he'd already fed and watered all of the animals for the day. I'm just guessing but the dog food was probably inside and she probably let them out to do their business when she arrived each day. I don't think she took those folks with her every day either. No, I don't think she killed eight people, but she may have unknowingly been pumped, or, by being around the family so much, may have expected trouble but never thought it would be them on the receiving end.

 

[rsd1200]

So the two unnamed people just sat in the car waiting patiently during the 35 minutes between arrival and 911 call? Did BJM scream, yell, or shout out when stepped into the blood soaked den? Did the two people hear her and become aware that something unusual, frightening, or tragic had happened? Did they wonder why BJM was spending so much time in the trailer when she was supposed to just feed the animals?

Was it out of the ordinary that BJM took people along with her while she fed the animals? Did she usually go alone? Or did others accompany her?

Did she take people with her that morning so that she would have someone to confirm that she was them, and provide an alibi?

Did she expect to find a break in or robbery, but not a murder scene?

According to BJM (and the way I read it, she went straight to the trailer when she got there):

She had a friend and his wife with her when she pulled into the driveway. She left her cellphone charging in the car and went up to the trailer. She turned the handle of the door and thought it was odd it was locked, she said. She also thought it was odd that R's two pit bulls were outside on the front porch, one sitting in a recliner. The animals normally stayed inside the trailer, she said.

She said she ran out of the trailer, crying. BJM thinks she was screaming: “Get me my phone, get my phone.” She called 911 at 7:49 a.m. and had to look at the mailbox to find the address, which the police operator wanted.
'Where is your daddy?'
She then went to the next trailer to alert her nephew FR that she had found his father dead.
But his front door was locked, too.
She pounded on the door, calling for FR or for B to open the door for "Aunt Jo."
The toddler unlocked the door and let her in.
“I said: ‘Where is your daddy? Where is your daddy?'" she said. "He pointed to the bedroom.”

http://www.wgrz.com/news/nation-now/ohio-massacre-i-was-not-leaving-those-babies-in-there/185980446

 

[evelezrn]

I've wondered from the very beginning why the friends BJM had "with her" that morning, to this day, haven't been named. I've not heard anyone even speculate as to who they are, no rumors, etc. AFAIK their identities remain confidential.

It was a bit early in the morning to have already picked up friends that day. BJM didn't mention picking anyone up between getting her daughter to the school bus and going to CHsr house.

If BJM did NOT pick up the friends that morning, had they stayed with her the night before?

Were people visiting from out of town?

Did they ride to CRsr WITH her?

Did they follow her in a different car?

Did they just "meet her there" at his house? If so, who got there first, etc?

IMO, by this point, IF the"general public" doesn't know who BJM had with her that morning, it's because we're not supposed to know.

This is hypothetical... IF their identities were being kept confidential after all this time, why? The only reason I can think of would be because naming them would either: 1. jeopardize an ongoing investigation, or 2. because their lives would be in danger if the wrong people knew who they were. IF it was due to an ongoing investigation, it would have to mean they were already CI's before this happened, which would mean something even bigger. (I hope the way I worded this makes sense).

ADDING THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE BJM KNOWINGLY PLAYED A ROLE IN THIS.
And iirc, she count not remember whether or not they entered the residences

 

[Bootsctr]

If BJM had not discovered the families, who would have been next in line to find them? Would we think it odd if she said she was supposed to feed the animals that morning, but decided to go on and do what she had planned with "her friend and his wife" ? It just seems as LM stated "why kill the people who gave you a golden egg every time you needed it", that BJM had nothing to gain by the murders...

Who had the most to gain by the murders?

I do find the wording of the article "her friend and his wife" strange. I would expect maybe her friend and her husband ? Then again maybe this was an elderly couple she was helping to take to a doctor appointment or something? That's just me though.

The big barn is quite curious to me too. I watched the helicopter view again thinking I had seen a very nice concrete floor, but just watched it again and it is not clear what type of flooring to me that it had.

OT sort of: Just watched this: American Monster The Green Monster

Season 2 • Episode 1
In Ohio, an intruder brutally guns down Jack and Linda Myers in their sleep. The only witness is their sleepy 4-year-old grandson. But their extensive home movies - aired here for the first time - may have captured a monster lurking in their midst.

https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/tv-shows/american-monster/full-episodes/the-green-monster

Their 4 y/o grandson ran to his daycare to report that his grandparents were "melting." Turns out it was Jack Myers' youngest son. He tried to blame the older estranged son (his brother), but his story fell through when tapes surfaced at Walmart of him purchasing the ammo. It stood out to me because the guilty son never denied he killed his father and step-mother. He just asked for a lawyer. Passed up a plea deal for life without parole. Ugh! He would have inherited the entire farm. Greedy!

 

[rsd1200]

I've wondered from the very beginning why the friends BJM had "with her" that morning, to this day, haven't been named. I've not heard anyone even speculate as to who they are, no rumors, etc. AFAIK their identities remain confidential.

It was a bit early in the morning to have already picked up friends that day. BJM didn't mention picking anyone up between getting her daughter to the school bus and going to CHsr house.

If BJM did NOT pick up the friends that morning, had they stayed with her the night before?

Were people visiting from out of town?

Did they ride to CRsr WITH her?

Did they follow her in a different car?

Did they just "meet her there" at his house? If so, who got there first, etc?

IMO, by this point, IF the"general public" doesn't know who BJM had with her that morning, it's because we're not supposed to know.

This is hypothetical... IF their identities were being kept confidential after all this time, why? The only reason I can think of would be because naming them would either: 1. jeopardize an ongoing investigation, or 2. because their lives would be in danger if the wrong people knew who they were. IF it was due to an ongoing investigation, it would have to mean they were already CI's before this happened, which would mean something even bigger. (I hope the way I worded this makes sense).

ADDING THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE BJM KNOWINGLY PLAYED A ROLE IN THIS.
And iirc, she count not remember whether or not they entered the residences

I think they've just wanted to stay out of the limelight and asked her not to publicly name them. I've read rumors of who they were but nothing specific. I think they were in the car with her, and she just swung by and picked them up b/c in the interview with her it reads;

She had a friend and his wife with her when she pulled into the driveway.

BBM
She remembered that one of them followed her into FR's trailer but not which one.