OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #29

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Dudly said:
Could it have been to get scared people to come to LE to tell them what they know in return for protection?
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I wouldn't think so. I would say the opposite. Anyone thinking of talking would, as RSD1200 says "run for the hills".
 
Renee110 said:
I agree with you in that the kids were removed before parents were shot. This is just so bizarre and weird to me. To kill off an entire family is as cold and heartless as it gets. I mean... you have to be a monster and demonic to do that, yet these monsters and demons took time and care to spare the children witch is absolutely opposite of cold, heartless and demonic. I do not believe AT ALL that gangs did this... they would not show this kind of concern. Seriously, this sparing of the children just absolutely flummoxes me. One thing does not mix with the other.
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BBM

It does if you throw religion in there. The children were innocent. The other's were not. The wages of sin type thing.
 
Renee110 said:
I agree with you in that the kids were removed before parents were shot. This is just so bizarre and weird to me. To kill off an entire family is as cold and heartless as it gets. I mean... you have to be a monster and demonic to do that, yet these monsters and demons took time and care to spare the children which is absolutely opposite of cold, heartless and demonic. I do not believe AT ALL that gangs did this... they would not show this kind of concern. Seriously, this sparing of the children just absolutely flummoxes me. One thing does not mix with the other.
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Was the spelling edit for flummoxes? :waitasec::lol:
 
Canaille said:
About JM saying that he didn't want to see his niece like that... has he been quoted as saying that himself to media? As I recall it was his wife who quoted him.
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This is true, and as I've said, it is hearsay, just as things LM has stated are hearsay. This is his wife though, and not a random community member, that he talked to about this. From what AM has stated, he did not go inside that trailer. That part has not been retracted, contradicted, nor changed, throughout this, unlike several other statements given.

So whether AM stated his words on point, or not, why did he not go inside, why would he assume they were all deceased? If he didn't know that S wasn't in there, and did hear the baby cry, why would he not instinctively go inside? BJM rolled right up in there and got those babies out of there. (And I've been suspicious of her throughout this even so. Not that she did it but maybe she was an information source. Knowingly or unknowingly.) I know everyone is different, but it seems that JM had already decided that everyone was dead and no point in going inside, just let the baby cry til LE got there.
 
bighairdontcare said:
If it is "rumor", then why would there have been an issued warning?
I would suppose that they had obtained some sort of credible information, in order to issue a public statement. No?
I am getting the impression that KF was possibly hauling dope for MS-13 (or something like that)?
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or maybe reader is talking out of his a$$ and just saything something to say something
 
Dudly said:
With night vision goggles that are pretty common now and/or a laser sight on a gun would make doing this in the dark relatively easy. The bullet hits where the little red dot appears. They may not have even seen Kylie. I don't think it is possible to know if CR2 was hiding behind his bed before he was shot or fell behind it after from what we know. LE would know if any bullets passed through him or from the entry angle. How someone could do this crime is what got me following it. It definitely was a heartless crime. I feel bad running over worms on the road after a heavy rain so this is well beyond my comprehension...
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Going off of LM saying, again, hearsay, that he saw his sis as he started to go in, I think that DR was awake, and went to the door, or heard something and got up to check. She was on her computer at right around 1:00 a.m. It's hard to come straight home after work and go straight to bed no matter what shift you're on. You have to unwind a bit. A healthy, nursing newborn will nurse, on average, every couple three hours. If the baby has gotten the hang of it, a lot of times mom can doze back off while baby nurses, but K was only a few days old, so she may have needed a little help, all babies are different. HMR, between feedings, or during, may have slept through the whole thing because of being exhausted (especially if she'd been out driving, and fishing earlier that day, as we've been told through KR2, in addition to having to nurse K so often, and pump when she didn't have K with her.). I agree that it's very likely that they'd had some type of night vision goggles, and a red dot too, but I think some of them were shot very close range, unlike CR1, and possibly GR too. I'm like you. I'm one of the few around here that goes out of their way to not run over a snake. I'm not a big spider fan but won't hardly even kill them unless it comes down to an us or them situation.
 
Dudly said:
Could it have been to get scared people to come to LE to tell them what they know in return for protection?
Click to expand...

Could have been that, or set in motion by the other side, to scare them into keeping that info to themselves.
 
IceIce9 said:
My first thought about S was that she was picked up for her own safety. If JW knew that a deadly situation was about to occur he would not have wanted his daughter to be anywhere near danger.

Can you imagine A allowing S to be present for that bloodbath?

How selfish though, that other children were left there where anything could have happened to them.
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I didn't realize JW was known to have done this..whrn did that come out as fact?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Betty P said:
All good points. Missing SR that morning and various reactions of those who had her should have raised quite a few red flags for LE . They should have been questioning JW quickly that day. Instead they focused on someone paying BJM to kill 8 people. Good thing they finally focused their efforts in the direction of a custody issue..
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Scrolling back through tonight, and got to thinking, didn't LE take JM's truck at the scene that day? Someone, LM, iirc, said something about because the tags weren't up to date, but I really doubt that expired tags were LE's focus that day, but it may have given them an easy out to snag it for awhile though.
 
rsd1200 said:
I don't think the kids were left in the beds during the killings. They didn't want the babies dead. You can't see in the dark. I think the babies were removed, put back. I think that all of the folks at DR's were awake. Hearsay has it that DR was found just inside the door by JM. Hearsay has it that CR2 was found hiding between his bead and the wall. HMR was in bed w/the infant. I figure she was possibly taken second, and CR2 tried to hide, but they knew he was there (even though based on what we've learned, it would not have been unlikely for him to have been staying somewhere else that night, even on a weekday, it seems that's normal in this family.). If either FR or HHG may have started awake, and someone is there with a gun and you've got a child(ren), and they're telling you if you move, they'll shoot the kids, then you'll likely not move. They shoot FR & HHG, and put the baby back. Either way the assailant(s) are still black-hearted demon(s).
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I tend to agree, the child was likely remove from bed first.

I would say HMR was killed first. In DR's home' she is the only one in bed. In addition, it would be difficult for an assailant to grab her baby while she is awake in bed. In this case, she would have been found beside her bed. But she never saw it coming. She was either sleeping or with someone she trusted.

CR2 likely killed last. He heard shots, he had time to hide. I believe we have MSM for him being found between the wall and his bed.

It leaves DR killed second. It was reported she was killed with 5 bullets in head and neck. I tend to think it was at close range, in the hallway to the room, not by the door. So I would say, she was killed as she came out of her room after the first shots in HR's room.

IMO, the assaillants were either (a) extremely quiet and went straight to HRs room or (b) they were trusted by everyone and were there to visit the baby with HR. I am leaning towards the latter.
 
<modsnip> Their job is to protect their client and to serve them, legally, to the best of their ability, whether it is a misdemeanor, or a murder, and to protect their fourth amendment rights. There are innocent people sitting on death row. I've got a goto lawyer, and I want her to fight tooth and nail, if/when I need her for whatever I need her for, or direct me to someone better suited, within the firm, for that particular need.

The criminal defense atty. knows the intricacies of the law, their clients usually do not, and if you are placed in the position of needing a criminal attorney, those are some scary waters. There has to be compelling facts for probable cause to be met, and probable cause must be met, in order for you to be arrested, and charged, with a crime.

A criminal defense attorney is there to ensure that their client's rights are not being violated, and that their client is not just being harassed. Obviously Reader, nor anyone else, as of yesterday, has enough of anything to bring charges against the Ws or the Neither Dewine, nor Reader, have yet to come out and call anyone in the W family, a person of interest, let alone a suspect (they aren't even calling JM a suspect or poi).

If they don't have enough on the Ws, to even call them persons of interest, yet make announcements that got sent out nationwide, as to locating their whereabouts, (like they couldn't hire a local fifth grader to find that out), and announce that they want to find anyone who may have had any dealings with them, over a year after the murders, then they may have come close to harassment. If there are any lawyers out there please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is bringing out nut jobs. Some guy went onto the property, of the new owners, on Peterson, where a No Trespassing sign was clearly posted (he filmed it), and trespassed. Wandered all around the property, went in the barn, showed his face for the camera, etc... Felt he'd done nothing wrong b/c he was "investigating" a crime. Only problem is, he's not LE. Just a joker w/a camera, trespassing onto the new owners property.

If I were in the Ws position, I'd want the best, bulldog, hotshot, criminal attorney, that I could afford. Reader, and Dewine, either need to get it together and call the Ws persons of interest, name them as suspects, or get up off the pot, and find the information they need to make that call, be it the Ws, or some other group of folks.

Thus far this has been a secretive, strange, unsettling, and very nearly libelous, investigation, and I don't blame anyone for lawyering up if that secretive bunch comes sniffing at their door. They aren't even letting folks see the full search warrants that they're serving them. They've all been sealed. They can't keep track of what they tell the public from one day to the next, Reader seems to be a good guy, but I'm not so sure he's got the bad apples all picked off his tree, and Adams County has had their share of bad LE press too. If they don't already have additional help with this that we're not seeing, I think that it might be time to call in the cavalry.


The lawyers statement pretty much meant, in my interpretation, for Reader and Dewine, to either put up, or shut up. They could get that family killed and what if little S or Bw were there? What if they are in fact innocent? The Ws might be guilty as sin but thus far we've not seen one shred of evidence from LE that would convict them in a court of law, they don't even have enough to call them a poi. Reader and Dewine have given the public nothing but the s.o.s. just served up on a different plate every few weeks.

Sorry for the book. Can't sleep, and annoyed at the spinning wheels of this investigation. This case is the first thing I check on in the morning and the last thing I look at before I go to sleep, not to mention checking in throughout the day. :gaah:
 
jk204 said:
I tend to agree, the child was likely remove from bed first.

I would say HMR was killed first. In DR's home' she is the only one in bed. In addition, it would be difficult for an assailant to grab her baby while she is awake in bed. In this case, she would have been found beside her bed. But she never saw it coming. She was either sleeping or with someone she trusted.

CR2 likely killed last. He heard shots, he had time to hide. I believe we have MSM for him being found between the wall and his bed.

It leaves DR killed second. It was reported she was killed with 5 bullets in head and neck. I tend to think it was at close range, in the hallway to the room, not by the door. So I would say, she was killed as she came out of her room after the first shots in HR's room.

IMO, the assaillants were either (a) extremely quiet and went straight to HRs room or (b) they were trusted by everyone and were there to visit the baby with HR. I am leaning towards the latter.
Click to expand...

I think you are probably right on the order of death. DR probably had a tablet, or laptop, and was doing a bit of surfing before turning in. As you said, they may have already stopped by (at least one of them), to hang out w/HMR & baby, and when everyone settled in, gave a signal for the other party to come in. Easy enough to let them right inside.

I think that CR1 had let his dogs out to do their business, but those folks came knocking, and the dogs never got let back inside. Also possible that the dogs knew the killers, didn't react during the whole thing, and were in the way afterward, so were let out by the assailant(s). I wonder if the dogs had any blood on them. If only those dogs could talk.
 
rsd1200 said:
Scrolling back through tonight, and got to thinking, didn't LE take JM's truck at the scene that day? Someone, LM, iirc, said something about because the tags weren't up to date, but I really doubt that expired tags were LE's focus that day, but it may have given them an easy out to snag it for awhile though.
Click to expand...
Yes they did. I remember they towed it away anf LM was very upset about them taking JM's truck.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
rsd1200 said:
<modsnip> Their job is to protect their client and to serve them, legally, to the best of their ability, whether it is a misdemeanor, or a murder, and to protect their fourth amendment rights. There are innocent people sitting on death row. I've got a goto lawyer, and I want her to fight tooth and nail, if/when I need her for whatever I need her for, or direct me to someone better suited, within the firm, for that particular need.

The criminal defense atty. knows the intricacies of the law, their clients usually do not, and if you are placed in the position of needing a criminal attorney, those are some scary waters. There has to be compelling facts for probable cause to be met, and probable cause must be met, in order for you to be arrested, and charged, with a crime.

A criminal defense attorney is there to ensure that their client's rights are not being violated, and that their client is not just being harassed. Obviously Reader, nor anyone else, as of yesterday, has enough of anything to bring charges against the Ws or the Neither Dewine, nor Reader, have yet to come out and call anyone in the W family, a person of interest, let alone a suspect (they aren't even calling JM a suspect or poi).

If they don't have enough on the Ws, to even call them persons of interest, yet make announcements that got sent out nationwide, as to locating their whereabouts, (like they couldn't hire a local fifth grader to find that out), and announce that they want to find anyone who may have had any dealings with them, over a year after the murders, then they may have come close to harassment. If there are any lawyers out there please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is bringing out nut jobs. Some guy went onto the property, of the new owners, on Peterson, where a No Trespassing sign was clearly posted (he filmed it), and trespassed. Wandered all around the property, went in the barn, showed his face for the camera, etc... Felt he'd done nothing wrong b/c he was "investigating" a crime. Only problem is, he's not LE. Just a joker w/a camera, trespassing onto the new owners property.

If I were in the Ws position, I'd want the best, bulldog, hotshot, criminal attorney, that I could afford. Reader, and Dewine, either need to get it together and call the Ws persons of interest, name them as suspects, or get up off the pot, and find the information they need to make that call, be it the Ws, or some other group of folks.

Thus far this has been a secretive, strange, unsettling, and very nearly libelous, investigation, and I don't blame anyone for lawyering up if that secretive bunch comes sniffing at their door. They aren't even letting folks see the full search warrants that they're serving them. They've all been sealed. They can't keep track of what they tell the public from one day to the next, Reader seems to be a good guy, but I'm not so sure he's got the bad apples all picked off his tree, and Adams County has had their share of bad LE press too. If they don't already have additional help with this that we're not seeing, I think that it might be time to call in the cavalry.


The lawyers statement pretty much meant, in my interpretation, for Reader and Dewine, to either put up, or shut up. They could get that family killed and what if little S or Bw were there? What if they are in fact innocent? The Ws might be guilty as sin but thus far we've not seen one shred of evidence from LE that would convict them in a court of law, they don't even have enough to call them a poi. Reader and Dewine have given the public nothing but the s.o.s. just served up on a different plate every few weeks.

Sorry for the book. Can't sleep, and annoyed at the spinning wheels of this investigation. This case is the first thing I check on in the morning and the last thing I look at before I go to sleep, not to mention checking in throughout the day. :gaah:
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. After a year they say they have made big progress but still can't name a POI or possible motive. The whole investigation is just bizarre... Why did they wait till the Wagners moved to concentrate on them? If they have cooperated as their attorney says, they have had all they need all along or have nothing on them. They are still fishing for a chance to accuse them. BCI is looking incompetent. The secrecy is looking like a coverup. I still wonder if they will expose a large undercover operation if they solve it. Or expose some prominent names doing illegal things. It is getting ridiculous...They said there was video from a camera in a birdhouse and other sources but nothing they can use?
I
 
rsd1200 said:
<modsnip> Their job is to protect their client and to serve them, legally, to the best of their ability, whether it is a misdemeanor, or a murder, and to protect their fourth amendment rights. There are innocent people sitting on death row. I've got a goto lawyer, and I want her to fight tooth and nail, if/when I need her for whatever I need her for, or direct me to someone better suited, within the firm, for that particular need.

The criminal defense atty. knows the intricacies of the law, their clients usually do not, and if you are placed in the position of needing a criminal attorney, those are some scary waters. There has to be compelling facts for probable cause to be met, and probable cause must be met, in order for you to be arrested, and charged, with a crime.

A criminal defense attorney is there to ensure that their client's rights are not being violated, and that their client is not just being harassed. Obviously Reader, nor anyone else, as of yesterday, has enough of anything to bring charges against the Ws or the Neither Dewine, nor Reader, have yet to come out and call anyone in the W family, a person of interest, let alone a suspect (they aren't even calling JM a suspect or poi).

If they don't have enough on the Ws, to even call them persons of interest, yet make announcements that got sent out nationwide, as to locating their whereabouts, (like they couldn't hire a local fifth grader to find that out), and announce that they want to find anyone who may have had any dealings with them, over a year after the murders, then they may have come close to harassment. If there are any lawyers out there please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is bringing out nut jobs. Some guy went onto the property, of the new owners, on Peterson, where a No Trespassing sign was clearly posted (he filmed it), and trespassed. Wandered all around the property, went in the barn, showed his face for the camera, etc... Felt he'd done nothing wrong b/c he was "investigating" a crime. Only problem is, he's not LE. Just a joker w/a camera, trespassing onto the new owners property.

If I were in the Ws position, I'd want the best, bulldog, hotshot, criminal attorney, that I could afford. Reader, and Dewine, either need to get it together and call the Ws persons of interest, name them as suspects, or get up off the pot, and find the information they need to make that call, be it the Ws, or some other group of folks.

Thus far this has been a secretive, strange, unsettling, and very nearly libelous, investigation, and I don't blame anyone for lawyering up if that secretive bunch comes sniffing at their door. They aren't even letting folks see the full search warrants that they're serving them. They've all been sealed. They can't keep track of what they tell the public from one day to the next, Reader seems to be a good guy, but I'm not so sure he's got the bad apples all picked off his tree, and Adams County has had their share of bad LE press too. If they don't already have additional help with this that we're not seeing, I think that it might be time to call in the cavalry.


The lawyers statement pretty much meant, in my interpretation, for Reader and Dewine, to either put up, or shut up. They could get that family killed and what if little S or Bw were there? What if they are in fact innocent? The Ws might be guilty as sin but thus far we've not seen one shred of evidence from LE that would convict them in a court of law, they don't even have enough to call them a poi. Reader and Dewine have given the public nothing but the s.o.s. just served up on a different plate every few weeks.

Sorry for the book. Can't sleep, and annoyed at the spinning wheels of this investigation. This case is the first thing I check on in the morning and the last thing I look at before I go to sleep, not to mention checking in throughout the day. :gaah:
Click to expand...

You are right about some nut jobs taking out the Wagners thinking they are guilty then S would lose her family, too, if she survived...

Y
 
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