OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #30

[RAISINISBACK]

I think the person was close to KR, and the rest, too. KR's dog may not have understood that the person killed KR and knew the person as an "okay" person, but knew that something was wrong after that person left, which then made the dog uncertain of them, when they returned in their LEO uniform, at the scene the next day. Maybe the dog had never seen them in their LEO uniform either. My dogs are always friendly to company but, with my Rott, I do believe that if someone came at me, she'd intervene. Nothing brings her much more joy than for me to pay attention to her. She would sit in my lap if I'd let her, but she weighs around 120 pounds, so I just can't. I do allow her to lay her head in my lap, and she'll start trying to inch the rest of her body on up too. She thinks she's the size of the two ankle biters.

BBM

I understand what you are saying. There is a strong possibility in an area as sparsely populated as Pike county that the chances that the R's were friends with a LE officer is very good. They may even have some relatives or extended family that are LE. In my family I have LE in the local, state and federal levels. Many families do.

I understand what you are saying about the dogs also. I have four dogs including a Min Pin that I keep at my office through the day (keeps the furniture, mail, shoes, clothes ect safe). The Min Pin, while not really friendly, had never attempted to bite any clients. Last year a young boy (around 18 years old) came in and when the Min Pin ran at him barking he kicked at him. From that moment on the Min Pin tried to bite every single person who walked in the door, both coming in and leaving. Even my employees who worked there every day. He would try to bite them when they came to work and try to bite them when they left for lunch ect.

If your theory is correct, and the killer was a LE that KR was friends with or related to, then it is very possible that Brownie would not have tried to attack him that night, but after the shot, which would have been a loud bang that might have startled her, the next day, when that LE officer showed up with the rest of investigators, she tried to attack him and "eat him up" LM's words) and had to be restrained by DS.

What does everyone think about the possibility of this scenario?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I just don't get why they waited though. Could it be that they suspected the parents, and not the boys, so the judge wouldn't grant a search warrant for the interior of the home, because the home belonged to the two brothers? But the farm, was being run by the parents? I've seen something similar play out twice (it happened once, to me). They couldn't be that ignorant of what was going on because the Ws were pretty out there in the open with their plans. Could it be that a judge, who favored the Ws, held up the warrant until they got themselves moved out of town? Wouldn't an Adams County judge or magistrate have to approve the warrant, since they lived in Adams county? If they didn't approve the warrant, then they'd have to take the search warrant request to a higher court, wouldn't they?

BBM

It could be that LE saw the W's slipping through their fingers and moving a long distance away.

I personally think that the very public way that raid on W property was carried out means something. After all LE admitted they served 40 or more search warrants prior to the one served on the W's, but there was never a peep in MSM of who or where those prior search warrants were served. I think that LE was the ones who tipped off the news media prior to the search so that reporters would be crawling all over the place during the search. But why have media there during this particular search? It can only mean they wanted everyone everywhere to know they suspected the W's as the killers. And just to make sure everyone was getting the point DeWine gave his "laser focus" speech. I think LE wanted to make it harder for the W's to just disappear and enjoy a "dream home' somewhere far from the crime.

The same way with JM. Like RSD1200 has said, I think more than one vehicle was equipped with a GPS tracker. And others may have discovered them and took them off. Why make JM's so public? The only reason I can think of is to let everyone know they suspected JM as being part of the murders.

Then again LE could have received a tip that the W's and JM were involved.

Another thought occurred to me that LE may have turned their attention to JM after he failed that polygraph and got JM's phone records and saw that late night text. If LE was already suspicious of the W's they would surely question why JM sent a text to JW at 2:00 AM.

JM failing a polygraph and sending a text to his niece's ex boyfriend at 2:00 AM certainly raises him in my suspicion.

And JW's ever changing stories as to when he picked up S, along with that late night text from his ex girlfriends uncle makes me very suspicious of him too.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

That's always been my assumption. The fifth wheel was not that big inside. his bed was at the end of the living room area, he probably just sat there and talked to anyone visiting.

Wish DS could talk more. Might go back and look at his interviews again. I recall him being so frightened and nervous his mouth was dry and his throat constricted. He could barely talk at times.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160516/81ff0d7f54f414623762aa61d9477173.jpg

ETA: Also, don't forget that KR's trailer locked from the outside, not the inside. JMO, and I could be wrong, but I've always thought the issue of the dogs is a red herring. If pros did these killings, they would have known how to deal with the dogs. The issue with dogs should never be cause to rule out anyone. Pros can handle it. Doesn't have to be a friend, cousin, close relative, etc.

BBM

But we don't have anything official that it did not lock from the inside. IIRC that information came from another poster on here who claimed to be close to KR but was never verified as an insider.

Assuming that KR locked his door at night like most people do, he would have had to get up out of bed to open it for his late night visitor. Unless his visitor had a key given to him/her by KR.

That says family or close friend to me.

 

[amauet1]

Here's the interview with DS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwBNUji0RHY

The only people who talked after the murders were LM and DS. LM was angry and upset, he seems to always have been an outspoken person. DS seems different. I'm trying to figure out why he talked to the news media afterwards. Any ideas?


He also says the money was laying on the bed. It doesn't sound like it was scattered around, but I could be wrong. If, as some speculate, it was a robbery, why would they leave money at the crime scene? They wouldn't.

ETA: I'm also putting forward again the theory that the murders were meant to send a message to a large group of people: "We're in charge here. Don't mess with us or this will happen to you." Was DS involved as one of the informants who gave information to the killers? Was his interview on tv part of their plan, part of the overall message?

That was new in the investigation. I think MSM was trying to get an interview with anyone just to get it "on air". Here's a guy at the time that didn't have a lot of money. I think he talked for the money, but has since regretted it or their just not interested in what he isn't saying anymore. I think BJM did her articles for the paper for the same reason, but also to gain simphathy (sp) for herself. I think she has "played" the victim in the past and it's worked for her ( JMO with the Rhodens). I think that both BJM and DS have lied to LE/BCI to save themselves and others involved in this crime. The Manleys were there everyday, involved in some of their business since CRsr and KR started them. I don't think they knew everything that went on in each others lives, but with facebook and the many posts they each made about what I would consider "personal issues" the whole world knew a lot about them. These families and friends seemed to me, to be "all up in" each others business both personal and business wise.
For a family involved in what they were, this wasn't the smartest thing to be doing. My kids have done the same and I have warned them not to. You never know who's reading your posts and what some nut might do.

 

[amauet1]

News video from the 1 yr anniversary of the murders. I'm going back over a lot of the news coverage trying to figure out where this case currently stands. The reporter says that LE has shared little about the case with the public, but also very little with the families. That is unusual. I believe LE has not shared much with family about how they died. Coroner said he only shared some info from the preliminary autopsy reports when he was deposed in the lawsuit.

Again, this raises red flags about other cases I've followed where something was being covered up.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qPgGrNrCRc

Kinda sounds like they don't trust some families or all. And if they haven't shared all of the autopsy information, then how could the "families" object about the findings being public?

 

[amauet1]

BBM

I understand what you are saying. There is a strong possibility in an area as sparsely populated as Pike county that the chances that the R's were friends with a LE officer is very good. They may even have some relatives or extended family that are LE. In my family I have LE in the local, state and federal levels. Many families do.

I understand what you are saying about the dogs also. I have four dogs including a Min Pin that I keep at my office through the day (keeps the furniture, mail, shoes, clothes ect safe). The Min Pin, while not really friendly, had never attempted to bite any clients. Last year a young boy (around 18 years old) came in and when the Min Pin ran at him barking he kicked at him. From that moment on the Min Pin tried to bite every single person who walked in the door, both coming in and leaving. Even my employees who worked there every day. He would try to bite them when they came to work and try to bite them when they left for lunch ect.

If your theory is correct, and the killer was a LE that KR was friends with or related to, then it is very possible that Brownie would not have tried to attack him that night, but after the shot, which would have been a loud bang that might have startled her, the next day, when that LE officer showed up with the rest of investigators, she tried to attack him and "eat him up" LM's words) and had to be restrained by DS.

What does everyone think about the possibility of this scenario?

I think someone spent the night with KR or opened the door so fast that all he had much time for was to set-up. Trying to get awake and figure out what was going on. He could have been shot and then someone went through his pockets looking for his phone. JMO

 

[amauet1]

BBM

It could be that LE saw the W's slipping through their fingers and moving a long distance away.

I personally think that the very public way that raid on W property was carried out means something. After all LE admitted they served 40 or more search warrants prior to the one served on the W's, but there was never a peep in MSM of who or where those prior search warrants were served. I think that LE was the ones who tipped off the news media prior to the search so that reporters would be crawling all over the place during the search. But why have media there during this particular search? It can only mean they wanted everyone everywhere to know they suspected the W's as the killers. And just to make sure everyone was getting the point DeWine gave his "laser focus" speech. I think LE wanted to make it harder for the W's to just disappear and enjoy a "dream home' somewhere far from the crime.

The same way with JM. Like RSD1200 has said, I think more than one vehicle was equipped with a GPS tracker. And others may have discovered them and took them off. Why make JM's so public? The only reason I can think of is to let everyone know they suspected JM as being part of the murders.

Then again LE could have received a tip that the W's and JM were involved.

Another thought occurred to me that LE may have turned their attention to JM after he failed that polygraph and got JM's phone records and saw that late night text. If LE was already suspicious of the W's they would surely question why JM sent a text to JW at 2:00 AM.

JM failing a polygraph and sending a text to his niece's ex boyfriend at 2:00 AM certainly raises him in my suspicion.

And JW's ever changing stories as to when he picked up S, along with that late night text from his ex girlfriends uncle makes me very suspicious of him too.

Totally agree.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM

I understand what you are saying. There is a strong possibility in an area as sparsely populated as Pike county that the chances that the R's were friends with a LE officer is very good. They may even have some relatives or extended family that are LE. In my family I have LE in the local, state and federal levels. Many families do.

I understand what you are saying about the dogs also. I have four dogs including a Min Pin that I keep at my office through the day (keeps the furniture, mail, shoes, clothes ect safe). The Min Pin, while not really friendly, had never attempted to bite any clients. Last year a young boy (around 18 years old) came in and when the Min Pin ran at him barking he kicked at him. From that moment on the Min Pin tried to bite every single person who walked in the door, both coming in and leaving. Even my employees who worked there every day. He would try to bite them when they came to work and try to bite them when they left for lunch ect.

If your theory is correct, and the killer was a LE that KR was friends with or related to, then it is very possible that Brownie would not have tried to attack him that night, but after the shot, which would have been a loud bang that might have startled her, the next day, when that LE officer showed up with the rest of investigators, she tried to attack him and "eat him up" LM's words) and had to be restrained by DS.

What does everyone think about the possibility of this scenario?

That's exactly what I was talking about. They may not be able to put guy, gun, bullet, death, together, but like your Min Pin (I love those little dogs, btw. They're so regal looking. My aunt had one.), I think they could put together, guy coming in that they knew,(possible yelling), and the guy creating a loud bang. The dog was probably confused as to why her human was not moving anymore too, and that could have even added to the dog's distress and aggressiveness.

 

[rsd1200]

I think someone spent the night with KR or opened the door so fast that all he had much time for was to set-up. Trying to get awake and figure out what was going on. He could have been shot and then someone went through his pockets looking for his phone. JMO

Or, could it be someone who stayed there frequently, had a key, let themselves in, KR wakes up, sits up, and it's over. As you said, amauet1, someone could have gone through his pockets, hence the scattered money, but they weren't worried about money. Maybe they even grabbed some but left some behind on their way out. I think all of this went down fast. Who would know where the trail cams were? Someone who helped him put them out, maybe? Someone else who enjoyed hunting? Possibly hunted with the Rs? Was besties with CR1?

 

[rsd1200]

BBM

It could be that LE saw the W's slipping through their fingers and moving a long distance away.

I personally think that the very public way that raid on W property was carried out means something. After all LE admitted they served 40 or more search warrants prior to the one served on the W's, but there was never a peep in MSM of who or where those prior search warrants were served. I think that LE was the ones who tipped off the news media prior to the search so that reporters would be crawling all over the place during the search. But why have media there during this particular search? It can only mean they wanted everyone everywhere to know they suspected the W's as the killers. And just to make sure everyone was getting the point DeWine gave his "laser focus" speech. I think LE wanted to make it harder for the W's to just disappear and enjoy a "dream home' somewhere far from the crime.

The same way with JM. Like RSD1200 has said, I think more than one vehicle was equipped with a GPS tracker. And others may have discovered them and took them off. Why make JM's so public? The only reason I can think of is to let everyone know they suspected JM as being part of the murders.

Then again LE could have received a tip that the W's and JM were involved.

Another thought occurred to me that LE may have turned their attention to JM after he failed that polygraph and got JM's phone records and saw that late night text. If LE was already suspicious of the W's they would surely question why JM sent a text to JW at 2:00 AM.

JM failing a polygraph and sending a text to his niece's ex boyfriend at 2:00 AM certainly raises him in my suspicion.

And JW's ever changing stories as to when he picked up S, along with that late night text from his ex girlfriends uncle makes me very suspicious of him too.

BBM
Even if that were the case, if they hadn't had enough for probable cause, to get a warrant for three different locations prior to that, how did they have enough when the Ws very openly stated that they were, planning to go to Alaska? It was absolutely all over their FB. No attempt at hiding it at all. Openly seeking a rental in one, of two, pretty specific places. Did the judge push it through without probable cause only for that reason? They weren't named suspects or pois and were openly saying where they were heading. No secret. If they had enough probable cause after they left, they had enough probable cause to push it through a day or two before they took the trip took off for Alaska. Either way it goes, something doesn't seem kosher. Maybe LM is the person sitting on LEs phone pointing the way to the Ws, but, it then began to shine a light on JM, in addition to the Ws. He has talked about how very close that DR and JM were. So very close. Nothing about DR and AM, and when they were putting BJM under the lights, I don't remember any comments about her and DR's level of closeness, only that she'd practically raised the R kids. Makes me think of the old saying, Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Does LM have something nagging in the back of his head? Is that why he's shut up now? Just thinking on screen.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Or, could it be someone who stayed there frequently, had a key, let themselves in, KR wakes up, sits up, and it's over. As you said, amauet1, someone could have gone through his pockets, hence the scattered money, but they weren't worried about money. Maybe they even grabbed some but left some behind on their way out. I think all of this went down fast. Who would know where the trail cams were? Someone who helped him put them out, maybe? Someone else who enjoyed hunting? Possibly hunted with the Rs? Was besties with CR1?

Should we try to put together a timeline?

We know that FR was alive at 10:30 PM (per ChelR).
We know that DR was alive at 1:00AM (per FB and AM)
We know that a hunter reported a gunshot at 4:00AM (per MSM)
We know that KR usually left for work at 5:00AM ( per Kendra)
We know that BJM came to feed the animals at around 7:00 AM after getting her child up to go to school (per BJM)

Before we try the time line I would like everyone to give their thoughts on three questions.

When DR worked a double shift she got home at around 11:00 PM (per MSM).

Question one: Do you think DR may have called CR1 to tell him she was on her way home?
Question two : Do you think DR may have called FR, HR or CR1 after she got that phone call at work that upset her?
Question three: Do you think she would have called CR1, or FR after she got home just to chat or checked on HR or CR2 to make sure they were asleep?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM
Even if that were the case, if they hadn't had enough for probable cause, to get a warrant for three different locations prior to that, how did they have enough when the Ws very openly stated that they were, planning to go to Alaska? It was absolutely all over their FB. No attempt at hiding it at all. Openly seeking a rental in one, of two, pretty specific places. Did the judge push it through without probable cause only for that reason? They weren't named suspects or pois and were openly saying where they were heading. No secret. If they had enough probable cause after they left, they had enough probable cause to push it through a day or two before they took the trip took off for Alaska. Either way it goes, something doesn't seem kosher. Maybe LM is the person sitting on LEs phone pointing the way to the Ws, but, it then began to shine a light on JM, in addition to the Ws. He has talked about how very close that DR and JM were. So very close. Nothing about DR and AM, and when they were putting BJM under the lights, I don't remember any comments about her and DR's level of closeness, only that she'd practically raised the R kids. Makes me think of the old saying, Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Does LM have something nagging in the back of his head? Is that why he's shut up now? Just thinking on screen.

BBM

I think LM is like most parents, he views his children through rose colored glasses. Most of us parents like to think of our kids as they were when they were younger, not now when they are middle aged.

I think DR and JM were very close when they were younger. But marriage changes things and very often husbands and wives (I think especially wives) get in between siblings so that the siblings are not as close as they once were. But yet the older parents never know about the small feuds between their kids and in-laws or choose to believe that those small feuds do not do any lasting damage and everything goes on as it always was.

But when you live with someone everyday (since we have been talking about dogs I will use this word) who is constantly yapping in your ear about the wrongs, real or imagined, that your sister or brother has done, then over time it wears you down.

I went through this with a sister-in-law who was particularly good at this. She was constantly telling my brother how we snubbed her at family gatherings or slighted her during Christmas gift giving or how when she called one of us we either didn't answer or cut the conversation with her short. I found myself spending long periods of very valuable time on the phone with her (she always called us when she knew we would be working or busy) so as to not give her the impression I was snubbing her. One day i said enough and when she called I very firmly told her I was too busy to talk. Five minutes later my brother called and asked why I was so short with his wife. I told him that she always made sure she called when she knew I was working and that if he wanted me to spend long hours talking to his wife I would quit working and move in with him so I could be available to her 24/7. He never complained about it again but there was always a coolness between us after that.

 

[amauet1]

BBM
Even if that were the case, if they hadn't had enough for probable cause, to get a warrant for three different locations prior to that, how did they have enough when the Ws very openly stated that they were, planning to go to Alaska? It was absolutely all over their FB. No attempt at hiding it at all. Openly seeking a rental in one, of two, pretty specific places. Did the judge push it through without probable cause only for that reason? They weren't named suspects or pois and were openly saying where they were heading. No secret. If they had enough probable cause after they left, they had enough probable cause to push it through a day or two before they took the trip took off for Alaska. Either way it goes, something doesn't seem kosher. Maybe LM is the person sitting on LEs phone pointing the way to the Ws, but, it then began to shine a light on JM, in addition to the Ws. He has talked about how very close that DR and JM were. So very close. Nothing about DR and AM, and when they were putting BJM under the lights, I don't remember any comments about her and DR's level of closeness, only that she'd practically raised the R kids. Makes me think of the old saying, Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Does LM have something nagging in the back of his head? Is that why he's shut up now? Just thinking on screen.

Seems to me (and you it looks like) that the Manleys and Wagners are having a contest between each other on who can blame whom for this and that. So that tells me that both families are involved in this mess. Like i have said IMO the Manleys know a lot of what went down both before and after this crime. And at first, weren't the Wagners going "on vacation" to Alaska, not moving there at first?

 

[amauet1]

Should we try to put together a timeline?

We know that FR was alive at 10:30 PM (per ChelR).
We know that DR was alive at 1:00AM (per FB and AM)
We know that a hunter reported a gunshot at 4:00AM (per MSM)
We know that KR usually left for work at 5:00AM ( per Kendra)
We know that BJM came to feed the animals at around 7:00 AM after getting her child up to go to school (per BJM)

Before we try the time line I would like everyone to give their thoughts on three questions.

When DR worked a double shift she got home at around 11:00 PM (per MSM).

Question one: Do you think DR may have called CR1 to tell him she was on her way home?
Question two : Do you think DR may have called FR, HR or CR1 after she got that phone call at work that upset her?
Question three: Do you think she would have called CR1, or FR after she got home just to chat or checked on HR or CR2 to make sure they were asleep?

I think that "if" there was a call to work, it would have been HMR informing Dana that JW was either there or had been there to get little S.
"If" that is true, Dana could have called FR, CRsr, to go over and help defuse the situation. I think she may have requested that they either call or text her (Dana) about the outcome. (I would so I wouldn't worry).
And you left out JW there at 10:30 to pick up little S.

If still alive HHG would have been up early because of B and R.
Dana could have been up early for work at 8am.

Really all could have been early risers for work, babies, business, etc. Seems to me "if" there was a plan to kill all, this would have been considered by killers. I think I read that CRjr could have been suspended from school, that's why I didn't include it.

Hi Dudley! I'm ifing again! LOL

 

[amauet1]

BBM

I think LM is like most parents, he views his children through rose colored glasses. Most of us parents like to think of our kids as they were when they were younger, not now when they are middle aged.

I think DR and JM were very close when they were younger. But marriage changes things and very often husbands and wives (I think especially wives) get in between siblings so that the siblings are not as close as they once were. But yet the older parents never know about the small feuds between their kids and in-laws or choose to believe that those small feuds do not do any lasting damage and everything goes on as it always was.

But when you live with someone everyday (since we have been talking about dogs I will use this word) who is constantly yapping in your ear about the wrongs, real or imagined, that your sister or brother has done, then over time it wears you down.

I went through this with a sister-in-law who was particularly good at this. She was constantly telling my brother how we snubbed her at family gatherings or slighted her during Christmas gift giving or how when she called one of us we either didn't answer or cut the conversation with her short. I found myself spending long periods of very valuable time on the phone with her (she always called us when she knew we would be working or busy) so as to not give her the impression I was snubbing her. One day i said enough and when she called I very firmly told her I was too busy to talk. Five minutes later my brother called and asked why I was so short with his wife. I told him that she always made sure she called when she knew I was working and that if he wanted me to spend long hours talking to his wife I would quit working and move in with him so I could be available to her 24/7. He never complained about it again but there was always a coolness between us after that.

LOVE that response! I'm still laughing! But I agree with you, siblings that were close when children are sometimes not that way as adults. Me and my little brother have some years between us. And when we were all at home together, were very close. My being older, I babysat him and was both sister /mother. As adults, we went our seperate ways and only see each other every once in a while and holidays. I really don't know him as an adult, but know he is a good man. We just aren't as close anymore.

 

[Bootsctr]

I love timelines Raisin!! And surveys!!!

Question 1: Yes, I think DR could have called CR1 after the phone call that upset her.
Question 2: Yes, I think DR could have called CR1 to let him know she was on her way home.
Question 3: I think she would have checked on HR and CRjr to see if they were sleeping.

 

[Bootsctr]

Seems to me (and you it looks like) that the Manleys and Wagners are having a contest between each other on who can blame whom for this and that. So that tells me that both families are involved in this mess. Like i have said IMO the Manleys know a lot of what went down both before and after this crime. And at first, weren't the Wagners going "on vacation" to Alaska, not moving there at first?

This is my theory as well. The W's and the M's are in this together. I see the W's as having motive, means and opportunity (with a little help from the M's that included that late night/early morning text from JM to JW. As far as JM's motive, I think it had something to do with Dana's recent acquisition of the nice piece of property and a trailer. I could see a wife being jealous that her sister-in-law was moving up in the world.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think that "if" there was a call to work, it would have been HMR informing Dana that JW was either there or had been there to get little S.
"If" that is true, Dana could have called FR, CRsr, to go over and help defuse the situation. I think she may have requested that they either call or text her (Dana) about the outcome. (I would so I wouldn't worry).
And you left out JW there at 10:30 to pick up little S.

If still alive HHG would have been up early because of B and R.
Dana could have been up early for work at 8am.

Really all could have been early risers for work, babies, business, etc. Seems to me "if" there was a plan to kill all, this would have been considered by killers. I think I read that CRjr could have been suspended from school, that's why I didn't include it.

Hi Dudley! I'm ifing again! LOL

LOL. I love that ifing thing.

You know what they say about that don't you?

If Ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we would all have a Merry Christmas. :loveyou:

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I love timelines Raisin!! And surveys!!!

Question 1: Yes, I think DR could have called CR1 after the phone call that upset her.
Question 2: Yes, I think DR could have called CR1 to let him know she was on her way home.
Question 3: I think she would have checked on HR and CRjr to see if they were sleeping.

Hi amauet1 I am going to be ifing! I love that phrase of yours. It is going to be my favorite phrase to use next year. I can see it now telling my clients "ok I am going to be ifing right now but...." LOL Thank you !!!!!

So If DR called Cr1 about the phone call that would mean CR1 at least was alive after 10:30 PM.

If Dr called CR1 to tell him she was home then that means CR1 was alive after 11:00 PM.

If DR checked on HR and CR2 that means both of them were alive at 11:00 PM.

Any one else?

 

[amauet1]

Hi amauet1 I am going to be ifing! I love that phrase of yours. It is going to be my favorite phrase to use next year. I can see it now telling my clients "ok I am going to be ifing right now but...." LOL Thank you !!!!!

So If DR called Cr1 about the phone call that would mean CR1 at least was alive after 10:30 PM.

If Dr called CR1 to tell him she was home then that means CR1 was alive after 11:00 PM.

If DR checked on HR and CR2 that means both of them were alive at 11:00 PM.

Any one else?

Your more than welcome to use that phrase! LOL!

Right now with what little info we have to go on, and the "lasor focus" on the W, they and the Manleys are all we have. Let me put this out there.
LM has said that there was a custody thing going on and an article in one of the papers printed that. And if it's true there was some kind of fight between CRsr and BW sometime before the murders, then it seems to me, that the Wagner's and Rhoden's weren't getting along as AW and JW would like us to think.
JW showed up at the hospital, Why? These families were not getting along. Her new boyfriend could have been there with her, difinately her family was there. Was JW alone or did he bring the whole clan? Just to intimidate the Rhodens? Couldn't AW by herself have brought litle S to see her new sister? There was a rumor about Sheriff Reader being at the hospital that day. Could some kind of fight have occured? Could some people have been banned from visitation?