OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #30

[Dudly]

Thinking back on that case involving lawyers, judges, etc., if the Rs somehow found out about that and were silenced, it puts a whole new spin on the requests for the public to tell LE what they know about it. Maybe they are wanting to know who they need to watch to make sure things are kept quiet...

 

[Betty P]

Thinking back on that case involving lawyers, judges, etc., if the Rs somehow found out about that and were silenced, it puts a whole new spin on the requests for the public to tell LE what they know about it. Maybe they are wanting to know who they need to watch to make sure things are kept quiet...

Yes, that's probably why there are no rewards to speak of and no real tips. Remember, from the beginning LE's attitude towards locals was demeaning, almost threatening. These poor people are stuck fearing both the killers who haven't been caught and possibly LE and the criminal justice system who want to cover up the whole thing.

I think DeWine, et al know who the crooked elected officials/judges, etc. are. They've been sitting on this information, it appears for around 4 yrs without taking action. I've heard other locals say the same thing online - that LE is busting all the small time users and dealers while ignoring the higher ups in the corrupt networks. The locals need to deal with it next election.

Reading through the news stories, etc. about the missing women, it's just unusual there's so much corruption, drugs, murder, etc. going on in Scioto County, Chillicothe (Ross), etc. but everyone expects the public to believe that nothing is wrong with Pike County. Those 8 people were slaughtered in their bes because someone got mad over a fight at the local hamburger stand or because someone picked a fight over hunting dogs or derby cars. Oy.

ETA: When considering the sealed affadavit and allegations about an unnamed state judge, remember who has a son serving on the Ohio Supreme Court.

 

[rsd1200]

[


BBM

It makes perfect sense. Dogs are pack animals that in the wild den together. When a dog lives in the home with you then you are his "pack" In the wild dogs will defend their pack against any perceived threat, including a threat from an animal they are not familiar with. There was a study many years ago (cannot even recall the name) but do remember it stating that wild dogs will bark and try to attack a vehicle even though they had never been in contact with or seen one. They just perceived it as a threat.

In KR's case, I think if someone dressed as LE or identifying themselves as such had knocked on his door that night, that even though KR may have let them in, he still would have had to restrain Brownie, so he would not have been lying in bed, but rather shot while he was at the door holding Brownie to keep her from biting the LE officer. Also I just cannot see him answering the door to a LE officer then casually going back to bed. When LE comes to your door in the middle of the night, you don't just let them in then go back to bed.

IMO whoever KR let in that night was close enough to him that he felt comfortable enough with to just climb back into bed. That speaks of a very close friend, or family. Also he had to have been comfortable with the fact that his killer was known enough to Brownie that the dog would not bite them while he lay in bed. As I said, close friend or family.

I think the person was close to KR, and the rest, too. KR's dog may not have understood that the person killed KR and knew the person as an "okay" person, but knew that something was wrong after that person left, which then made the dog uncertain of them, when they returned in their LEO uniform, at the scene the next day. Maybe the dog had never seen them in their LEO uniform either. My dogs are always friendly to company but, with my Rott, I do believe that if someone came at me, she'd intervene. Nothing brings her much more joy than for me to pay attention to her. She would sit in my lap if I'd let her, but she weighs around 120 pounds, so I just can't. I do allow her to lay her head in my lap, and she'll start trying to inch the rest of her body on up too. She thinks she's the size of the two ankle biters.

 

[Dudly]

I think the person was close to KR, and the rest, too. KR's dog may not have understood that the person killed KR and knew the person as an "okay" person, but knew that something was wrong after that person left, which then made the dog uncertain of them, when they returned in their LEO uniform, at the scene the next day. Maybe the dog had never seen them in their LEO uniform either. My dogs are always friendly to company but, with my Rott, I do believe that if someone came at me, she'd intervene. Nothing brings her much more joy than for me to pay attention to her. She would sit in my lap if I'd let her, but she weighs around 120 pounds, so I just can't. I do allow her to lay her head in my lap, and she'll start trying to inch the rest of her body on up too. She thinks she's the size of the two ankle biters.

The dog could have been reacting to other LEO there and not just the one of them that may have been there previously. Getting a better picture of the scope of corruption in the area opens new possibilities. There could have been LE investigating their own crime or someone's they knew. They could have been hiding more evidence than they officially found if that were the case...

 

[rsd1200]

I think if that was the case LE would have known the W's were involved in the "business" and could possibly be in danger. I think that very public raid on W properties was to let everyone and their brother know that not only were the W's blowing town, but exactly where they were moving. I do not think LE would have did that if they thought the W's were in any danger from the killers. No, I think LE did it to let the people in Kenai and AK know that who they suspected as the killers of the R's was moving in next door to them. Don't forget that "laser focus" which in this very secretive case is paramount to DeWine naming them as suspects.

I think that reference to a mysterious "business associate" by the W's attorney was to throw suspicion off them so the people living in Kenai wouldn't watch them as close.

Indeed the W's may have used it trying to throw off LE suspicion.

I just don't get why they waited though. Could it be that they suspected the parents, and not the boys, so the judge wouldn't grant a search warrant for the interior of the home, because the home belonged to the two brothers? But the farm, was being run by the parents? I've seen something similar play out twice (it happened once, to me). They couldn't be that ignorant of what was going on because the Ws were pretty out there in the open with their plans. Could it be that a judge, who favored the Ws, held up the warrant until they got themselves moved out of town? Wouldn't an Adams County judge or magistrate have to approve the warrant, since they lived in Adams county? If they didn't approve the warrant, then they'd have to take the search warrant request to a higher court, wouldn't they?

 

[rsd1200]

Could he have just been sitting on the bed and fell back on it when shot? Maybe he was ON the bed and not necessarily IN bed....

This is what I've thought. That KR was sitting on the bed, and had invited them in, and the assailant just up and shoots him.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, that's probably why there are no rewards to speak of and no real tips. Remember, from the beginning LE's attitude towards locals was demeaning, almost threatening. These poor people are stuck fearing both the killers who haven't been caught and possibly LE and the criminal justice system who want to cover up the whole thing.

I think DeWine, et al know who the crooked elected officials/judges, etc. are. They've been sitting on this information, it appears for around 4 yrs without taking action. I've heard other locals say the same thing online - that LE is busting all the small time users and dealers while ignoring the higher ups in the corrupt networks. The locals need to deal with it next election.

Reading through the news stories, etc. about the missing women, it's just unusual there's so much corruption, drugs, murder, etc. going on in Scioto County, Chillicothe (Ross), etc. but everyone expects the public to believe that nothing is wrong with Pike County. Those 8 people were slaughtered in their bes because someone got mad over a fight at the local hamburger stand or because someone picked a fight over hunting dogs or derby cars. Oy.

ETA: When considering the sealed affadavit and allegations about an unnamed state judge, remember who has a son serving on the Ohio Supreme Court.

BBM

Goes on here too. Every now and then they'll pop one to make it look good but we all knew who they were back in the day (I don't so much now b/c I'm not out and about now) but they'd pick up the guys selling dime bags and the big fish would keep right on swimming.

 

[Betty P]

I just don't get why they waited though. Could it be that they suspected the parents, and not the boys, so the judge wouldn't grant a search warrant for the interior of the home, because the home belonged to the two brothers? But the farm, was being run by the parents? I've seen something similar play out twice (it happened once, to me). They couldn't be that ignorant of what was going on because the Ws were pretty out there in the open with their plans. Could it be that a judge, who favored the Ws, held up the warrant until they got themselves moved out of town? Wouldn't an Adams County judge or magistrate have to approve the warrant, since they lived in Adams county? If they didn't approve the warrant, then they'd have to take the search warrant request to a higher court, wouldn't they?

BBM

I've wondered the same thing. Could be Adams Co slowed down the process considerably, though one would think the Ohio AG could overrule that.

 

[rsd1200]

The dog could have been reacting to other LEO there and not just the one of them that may have been there previously. Getting a better picture of the scope of corruption in the area opens new possibilities. There could have been LE investigating their own crime or someone's they knew. They could have been hiding more evidence than they officially found if that were the case...

Either way, KR's dog, was the only dog that we know of, who had to be restrained. This tells me that the dog, being in the camper with her human, in close quarters, had to have known, and been okay with the person who entered the trailer and killed her owner. She was in the trailer when DS found KR. She didn't bother DS or the boy with him, so she was okay with folks she knew.

 

[Betty P]

This is what I've thought. That KR was sitting on the bed, and had invited them in, and the assailant just up and shoots him.

That's always been my assumption. The fifth wheel was not that big inside. his bed was at the end of the living room area, he probably just sat there and talked to anyone visiting.

Wish DS could talk more. Might go back and look at his interviews again. I recall him being so frightened and nervous his mouth was dry and his throat constricted. He could barely talk at times.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160516/81ff0d7f54f414623762aa61d9477173.jpg

ETA: Also, don't forget that KR's trailer locked from the outside, not the inside. JMO, and I could be wrong, but I've always thought the issue of the dogs is a red herring. If pros did these killings, they would have known how to deal with the dogs. The issue with dogs should never be cause to rule out anyone. Pros can handle it. Doesn't have to be a friend, cousin, close relative, etc.

 

[rsd1200]

That's always been my assumption. The fifth wheel was not that big inside. his bed was at the end of the living room area, he probably just sat there and talked to anyone visiting.

Wish DS could talk more. Might go back and look at his interviews again. I recall him being so frightened and nervous his mouth was dry and his throat constricted. He could barely talk at times.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160516/81ff0d7f54f414623762aa61d9477173.jpg

ETA: Also, don't forget that KR's trailer locked from the outside, not the inside. JMO, and I could be wrong, but I've always thought the issue of the dogs is a red herring. If pros did these killings, they would have known how to deal with the dogs. The issue with dogs should never be cause to rule out anyone. Pros can handle it. Doesn't have to be a friend, cousin, close relative, etc.

I agree about the dogs. I'm a dog person and can normally handle dogs pretty well. Most folks won't get out of their vehicles when our big dogs are outside. (I do have a Beware of Dog sign at the head of the drive). However, there's been a couple folks, who are dog people, and I've run out to get the dogs in, so they can get out of their vehicles, and found them actually sitting, in my driveway, with both big dogs bouncing happily around them. Then again, we had a 30 pound pit mix when I was a kid, and it didn't matter WHO it was, family or stranger, friend or foe, that dog would bite them! He nearly neutered our neighbor...:facepalm: The little guy stayed on quarantine and was even eventually placed on the vicious dog registry! He really wasn't very big but he was stout. If someone encroached on his territory, it was ON. He was hard headed and ornery but he never bit us. He lived to be about 15. Note: This was an era when dogs roamed free, and not many folks allowed animals in the house, much less thought about training them. Our little alligator with hair wouldn't even come when called, he'd look over his shoulder, like, yeah, right, and keep right on going. My Momma just can't understand why I let animals live in my home and is terrified of my Rott, yet she's never raised a hackle at her. So, in my long way around of telling it, one never really knows what a dog would do unless specifically trained as a guard dog. I've got two that I think would help a burglar pack up the house if doggy treats were involved, one I'm not real sure how he'd react, and one, I feel would probably take a stand if they felt that the person was menacing (especially toward me). My little dog from my childhood, who bit everyone who he felt needed biting? Burglars broke in our home twice, on his watch, sacked up what they wanted, and left, totally unscathed...

 

[mamamumbles]

That's always been my assumption. The fifth wheel was not that big inside. his bed was at the end of the living room area, he probably just sat there and talked to anyone visiting.

Wish DS could talk more. Might go back and look at his interviews again. I recall him being so frightened and nervous his mouth was dry and his throat constricted. He could barely talk at times.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160516/81ff0d7f54f414623762aa61d9477173.jpg

ETA: Also, don't forget that KR's trailer locked from the outside, not the inside. JMO, and I could be wrong, but I've always thought the issue of the dogs is a red herring. If pros did these killings, they would have known how to deal with the dogs. The issue with dogs should never be cause to rule out anyone. Pros can handle it. Doesn't have to be a friend, cousin, close relative, etc.

I agree. Dogs should not be taken into account. I don't think it's hard to get past any dogs. I've sprayed a couple with OC spray if they were vicious and they run away with their tails between their legs. Not even an issue.


Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Dudly]

I agree about the dogs. I'm a dog person and can normally handle dogs pretty well. Most folks won't get out of their vehicles when our big dogs are outside. (I do have a Beware of Dog sign at the head of the drive). However, there's been a couple folks, who are dog people, and I've run out to get the dogs in, so they can get out of their vehicles, and found them actually sitting, in my driveway, with both big dogs bouncing happily around them. Then again, we had a 30 pound pit mix when I was a kid, and it didn't matter WHO it was, family or stranger, friend or foe, that dog would bite them! He nearly neutered our neighbor...:facepalm: The little guy stayed on quarantine and was even eventually placed on the vicious dog registry! He really wasn't very big but he was stout. If someone encroached on his territory, it was ON. He was hard headed and ornery but he never bit us. He lived to be about 15. Note: This was an era when dogs roamed free, and not many folks allowed animals in the house, much less thought about training them. Our little alligator with hair wouldn't even come when called, he'd look over his shoulder, like, yeah, right, and keep right on going. My Momma just can't understand why I let animals live in my home and is terrified of my Rott, yet she's never raised a hackle at her. So, in my long way around of telling it, one never really knows what a dog would do unless specifically trained as a guard dog. I've got two that I think would help a burglar pack up the house if doggy treats were involved, one I'm not real sure how he'd react, and one, I feel would probably take a stand if they felt that the person was menacing (especially toward me). My little dog from my childhood, who bit everyone who he felt needed biting? Burglars broke in our home twice, on his watch, sacked up what they wanted, and left, totally unscathed...

I've been around three different Rotties and they all thought they were lap dogs to me. One could be aggressive to certain people even though they came around often and barked when anyone came on the property. Two almost never barked. One would sit on my feet to make me pet him. One stood beside me and put his foot on top of mine to make me pet him. The other one just ran circles around me wanting to plat fetch. So yes, they can all be different. And there was a K9 handler on the Sheriff Department...

 

[rsd1200]

I agree. Dogs should not be taken into account. I don't think it's hard to get past any dogs. I've sprayed a couple with OC spray if they were vicious and they run away with their tails between their legs. Not even an issue.


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The spray doesn't work on all of them, but it does work on most. Windy days are a problem for sprays too (it can blow back). Some dogs some come in silent, and from behind, too. The majority of dogs will not go off of their territory to attack. Our delivery guy waits for one of us to come out now. He was blindsided by five large dogs, at a home he was delivering to. He nearly died. Thankfully someone got to him in time. He's a dog owner, and even has a large dog, but doesn't take chances with large dogs, he doesn't know, anymore. I told him I completely understood.

 

[rsd1200]

I've been around three different Rotties and they all thought they were lap dogs to me. One could be aggressive to certain people even though they came around often and barked when anyone came on the property. Two almost never barked. One would sit on my feet to make me pet him. One stood beside me and put his foot on top of mine to make me pet him. The other one just ran circles around me wanting to plat fetch. So yes, they can all be different. And there was a K9 handler on the Sheriff Department...

The foot thing is a trait, I do believe. lol Both of mine have done that. The one I have now will sit on your foot, Put one front paw on your toes, get both front paws on your feet, etc... My other one, and this one, hardly ever bark. Especially this one. She patrols her territory but rarely barks.

 

[Dudly]

That's always been my assumption. The fifth wheel was not that big inside. his bed was at the end of the living room area, he probably just sat there and talked to anyone visiting.

Wish DS could talk more. Might go back and look at his interviews again. I recall him being so frightened and nervous his mouth was dry and his throat constricted. He could barely talk at times.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160516/81ff0d7f54f414623762aa61d9477173.jpg

ETA: Also, don't forget that KR's trailer locked from the outside, not the inside. JMO, and I could be wrong, but I've always thought the issue of the dogs is a red herring. If pros did these killings, they would have known how to deal with the dogs. The issue with dogs should never be cause to rule out anyone. Pros can handle it. Doesn't have to be a friend, cousin, close relative, etc.

I think the hasp and padlock on the outside was extra security when he was away. Those doors and frames are aluminum and easy to pry open. It may have had a working lock system on the inside. As much in and out traffic, at all hours, three of the houses seemed to have, the dogs may not have paid much attention to someone showing up.
I

 

[Dudly]

The spray doesn't work on all of them, but it does work on most. Windy days are a problem for sprays too (it can blow back). Some dogs some come in silent, and from behind, too. The majority of dogs will not go off of their territory to attack. Our delivery guy waits for one of us to come out now. He was blindsided by five large dogs, at a home he was delivering to. He nearly died. Thankfully someone got to him in time. He's a dog owner, and even has a large dog, but doesn't take chances with large dogs, he doesn't know, anymore. I told him I completely understood.

I have always been told to really watch a dog that doesn't bark but circles around behind you. Those are the ones very likely to bite...

 

[Betty P]

Here's the interview with DS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwBNUji0RHY

The only people who talked after the murders were LM and DS. LM was angry and upset, he seems to always have been an outspoken person. DS seems different. I'm trying to figure out why he talked to the news media afterwards. Any ideas?


He also says the money was laying on the bed. It doesn't sound like it was scattered around, but I could be wrong. If, as some speculate, it was a robbery, why would they leave money at the crime scene? They wouldn't.

ETA: I'm also putting forward again the theory that the murders were meant to send a message to a large group of people: "We're in charge here. Don't mess with us or this will happen to you." Was DS involved as one of the informants who gave information to the killers? Was his interview on tv part of their plan, part of the overall message?

 

[Betty P]

News video from the 1 yr anniversary of the murders. I'm going back over a lot of the news coverage trying to figure out where this case currently stands. The reporter says that LE has shared little about the case with the public, but also very little with the families. That is unusual. I believe LE has not shared much with family about how they died. Coroner said he only shared some info from the preliminary autopsy reports when he was deposed in the lawsuit.

Again, this raises red flags about other cases I've followed where something was being covered up.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qPgGrNrCRc

 

[rsd1200]

I have always been told to really watch a dog that doesn't bark but circles around behind you. Those are the ones very likely to bite...

Yep, those are usually the ones. Some will lunge right at you but you those are usually on chains, leashes, or behind a fence. My Rott patrols when she's out (that's what I call it.) or is on alert. We had a fella come by that she knew, but it was dark, apparently she'd followed behind him all the way to the front steps, without him knowing, and then mouthed his hand as he was getting ready to climb the porch steps. He nearly had a coronary. She will bark, but it's usually barking at other critters in the woods. If they broach the yard area, the barking is over, and they're history. The Shepherd will bark til the cows come home. Because Brownie, was inside the trailer, with her human, a single human that she'd likely formed a bond with, I feel she'd have been the most likely to have been aggressive toward a stranger. If she'd been sprayed the assailant(s) would have been affected too, in that tiny enclosed space. I doubt KR would have allowed someone in, if they were wearing a mask, either. He, (as well as the others), seemed not to be prepared to shoot back at the assailant(s).