OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[MittenScarpetta]

BBM

Or they knew he had keys to CR1's and FR's homes and they killed him to get the keys that they knew he had. After all who would know if keys to the other homes were taken from his trailer.

That could be the clue that ties KR to the rest.

JMO

If he had keys to the other homes, I wonder who would have known that?

I’m sure it’s possible CRsr could’ve mentioned while working at BBL that his brother had keys to his homes. It’s also possible family members and close friends would’ve known that as well.

 

[Chelly]

Following this case since Day 1.

Never could understand why these family members had so many sleep-overs. Who does that?

Am I the only person who finds it odd that their very young children are frequently dropped off and picked up at various homes at 10:30 p.m?

Not judging, just don't understand these sleeping arrangements.

 

[Betty P]

I know LM said it , but the mention of no forced entry was mentioned here as well.



Perhaps that’s just clever wording on behalf of Chris Graves though. I’m not sure.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/94294522

In regards to the The Eapman murders, I’ve read about that case several times. There are eery similarities -the killer being familiar with the house, killing two adults in their sleep (one considered the target).

However there was a 12 year old left alive. But in the Rhoden murders, a 16 year old was murdered. Both of those kids were in the homes of their parents when shot.

If they’re related, why leave a 12 year old alive but kill a 16 year old in another homicide?

Doug Eapman was also involved prior in interstate pill trafficking. LE said he was selling drugs again.

Candy Newsome was said to be dealing pills as well.

LE has never stated the Rhoden’s were selling drugs. What they did say about a organized grows, they later said they didn’t believe was related to the murders.

IMO-selling pills is a lot different than growing weed. The two things are as different as night and day.

So, I guess where I’m coming from, IF all of these cases are related, then IMO the Rhoden’s would’ve been handling more things than marijuana.

And how do the 4 W’s come into play with all of that? I mean, I have seen accounts of certain situations involving the elders horses and what they were said to be used for at one time, but I don’t know that to be fact. And that’s not the 4 W’s with a laser focus on them.

As far as being an expert bonfire builder, I really don’t think that’s a factor. Wood burns slow, clothes burn to nothing very quick.

While we are on the subject, anyone know when trash day was for the W’s? Did they have local trash service? I mean if they weren’t looked at for a year, heck they could’ve thrown any evidence away. It’s not like LE would find it in a landfill, especially this late in the game.

I’m truly not disagreeing. I take no offense to different opinions and thoughts. I actually think that’s a good thing-it keeps this case talked about. Guests viewing are more likely to read an open ws thread with conversations that are ongoing, rather than old threads and it keeps the most recent thread at the top of google searches.

One more question, for anyone really, I’m headed back to read the autopsy reports again, but wasn’t it only CRsr & GR that didn’t have the mention of a toe tag? Could it be because they had shoes on at the time their body’s were found?

Something to consider: What if it was someone in the W family who was involved in the business of trafficking harder drugs? Perhaps someone was involved in the transportation of them? Perhaps it was somehow linked to people who had land contracts who have been arrested for manufacture or sale of hard drugs? This activity could have been taking place in counties adjacent to Pike County, perhaps not previously known to the Sheriff.

Maybe CR1 made a threat about revealing that in the midst of the custody battle?

WRT shoes on CR1 and GR, it's possible they were still up when attacked. The AR's seem to indicate CR1 was beat up, fought back. They may have been awake.

 

[rsd1200]

But more than a few times the ex doesn't just kill whoever is in one house, they go around to other relatives houses and kill them also. Sometimes driving from town to town to do so. Killing their ex, their kids, the parents, siblings and grandparents of the ex and in one case one guy even drove to a different town to kill his ex's cousin and her husband.

It's like the threat of "If you leave me I'll hunt you down and kill you" doesn't cut it any more, now it's "If you leave me I'll hunt down your entire family and kill them before I kill you, so you know they are dead before you go."

I suspect this is what happened in the R case.

The ones who go plumb off like that, are usually caught pretty quickly. The Ws have ended up with S, but I just don't see that as the motivating factor behind these murders.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Something to consider: What if it was someone in the W family who was involved in the business of trafficking harder drugs? Perhaps someone was involved in the transportation of them? Perhaps it was somehow linked to people who had land contracts who have been arrested for manufacture or sale of hard drugs? This activity could have been taking place in counties adjacent to Pike County, perhaps not previously known to the Sheriff.

Maybe CR1 made a threat about revealing that in the midst of the custody battle?

I’ve considered many times that CR1, in defense of HMR & S, could’ve made a threat to expose people for who they really are.

That’s still not off the table for me.

I just truly think there has to be something very significant regarding the 4 transplanted Alaskans because of the comments that have been made publicly.

I’m not sure all of what you stated could be stated and clear this case up in 3 seconds, like Junk said.

His statement has made it seem like the motive is really quite simple and all of the surrounding factors we all know about, aren’t really that simple. It’s quite a tangled intertwined web.

ETA-just saw your edit about shoes. That’s just a guess on my part. I can’t and have never been able to figure out why toe tags are not mentioned (or redacted) in those two autopsies, but are in the other 6. Not trying to be callous or insensitive in any way, I know autopsy reports are very emotional for surviving family.

 

[rsd1200]

Either a key, or would JW's visit to see HR have coincided with the time the mother of F's child was dropped off?

ETA: JW said he picked up S around 10:30 P.M. and I don't think this is the reason he was there, because I think he already had S. The ex-gf of FR dropped off their child around 10:30 PM that night, too. JW may have seen the ex gf dropping the child off at FR's. FR's ex gf may have seen JW at DR's home, too, and that might explain why JW had to come up with a reason for having been at DR's home - and said he was there to pick up S. AW later corrected that and said he got S the week prior.

I think that AW said she spoke with DR after, or near, midnight. If the assailant(s) had gotten there at 10:30p, killed HMR and CR2, they'd had to have sat there til DR came home, and ambush her. DR would not have been able to talk to AW or be posting online around midnight.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Following this case since Day 1.

Never could understand why these family members had so many sleep-overs. Who does that?

Am I the only person who finds it odd that their very young children are frequently dropped off and picked up at various homes at 10:30 p.m?

Not judging, just don't understand these sleeping arrangements.

I don’t really think much about the sleepovers because I’ve seen this firsthand with a few families I know. Some families are very close and when you add teenagers and young adults into the mix who have lots of cousins and friends the same age, they like to hang out together.

I’ve thought the late times for pickup and drop off of kids was out of sorts. But I’m basing that off my own parenting where my kids were in bed between 7-8pm when they were babies and toddlers.

I have found it curious that there were so many sleep overs planned for the night of 4/21 that didn’t happen.

And the one that’s never made sense to me is DS. But that’s all JMO.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I think that AW said she spoke with DR after, or near, midnight. If the assailant(s) had gotten there at 10:30p, killed HMR and CR2, they'd had to have sat there til DR came home, and ambush her. DR would not have been able to talk to AW or be posting online around midnight.

AW or AM?

 

[Betty P]

I’ve considered many times that CR1, in defense of HMR & S, could’ve made a threat to expose people for who they really are.

That’s still not off the table for me.

I just truly think there has to be something very significant regarding the 4 transplanted Alaskans because of the comments that have been made publicly.

I’m not sure all of what you stated could be stated and clear this case up in 3 seconds, like Junk said.

His statement has made it seem like the motive is really quite simple and all of the surrounding factors we all know about, aren’t really that simple. It’s quite a tangled intertwined web.

Perhaps Junk is exaggerating, using hyperbole, or perhaps it could be explained that easily. CR1 and the W family were in a custody battle. Threats were made by CR1. W's told drug bosses and murders happened.

It was an unusually brutal and extensive mass killing, described by LE as a sophisticated, pre-planned execution. JMO, there aren't too many people who can explain that in 3 seconds without leaving out some details.

I very much think CR1 threatened to expose some illegal activity he was aware of. Perhaps his threat could have exposed rogue people in LE, business or the criminal justice system. It's happened many times before and in the past has sometimes resulted in pro hits.

 

[rsd1200]

Agree, the killers probably planned in advance how and where they would get rid of weapons and anything else they used in the murders. Recall, GR's father said there were at least 2 types of guns used for the murders at CR1's place, so there were probably multiple weapons to dispose of. Probably also needed to dispose of bloody clothing, etc. Also wondering how they kept from getting blood on the interior of the vehicle(s) they used. The killers very likely were covered in blood by the end of the murders.

ETA: Also add disposal of "burner" cell phones and possibly burglary tools used for breaking into homes, too.

BBM
Coveralls, and possibly a truck. A truck that disappears til any blood is sure to be gone out of the bed, and burn the coveralls.

That one dude found stuff stuffed in a well from a murder years before. There's likely old wells all over those hills too. If you don't know they are there you'll walk right over top of them and never notice. Also, I'd not be surprised if there were caves in that area. Bodies can be stashed in those, so clothing and firearms wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

BBM
Coveralls, and possibly a truck. A truck that disappears til any blood is sure to be gone out of the bed, and burn the coveralls.

That one dude found stuff stuffed in a well from a murder years before. There's likely old wells all over those hills too. If you don't know they are there you'll walk right over top of them and never notice. Also, I'd not be surprised if there were caves in that area. Bodies can be stashed in those, so clothing and firearms wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

BBM there’s caves and caverns all over Ohio. I know there’s the Indian Caverns just north of Columbus. I’ve been to the ones in Liberty, OH, called Ohio Caverns. They explain the history and how they’re all over the state. A cave or well would be a perfect hiding spot. Especially, if it’s used by someone who knows the land and all the hiding spots that most people probably don’t.

 

[rsd1200]

It's ok if we disagree.

I think it's possible some kind of tools were used in some cases to open back doors or windows. IIRC, the quotes about no signs of forced entry came from LM. They may or may not be accurate. LE may have told him that in hopes of scaring him or his family into admitting complicity. As many of us have ascertained, LE probably erroneously focused on other family members in the beginning.

Yes, burner phones would possibly have been used and disposed of. I'm basing my opinion about the killers on similar murders in the area:

Candace Newsome & her daughter

http://wchstv.com/news/local/police-release-names-of-mother-daughter-found-dead-in-scioto-county

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/politics/...amily-who-lost-mother-and-daughter/1114371092

Dr. Kevin Lake

http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170926/who-fatally-shot-pill-mill-doctor-in-his-new-albany-area-home

There's also the similarities with the deaths of the Eapmons in KY

Recall, the bedroom window at CR1's trailer was open that morning.

Putting cell phones, clothing and other evidence in a fire is risky. Unless the killers are able to generate a high temp fire and supervise the burning closely, parts of clothing and cell phones would likely remain. JMO. Yes, I know the local gentry are probably skilled at building bonfires for wiener roasts, etc. It doesn't make first time mass murderers experts at getting rid of all the evidence.

But I do think they may have kept the red truck as a way to later set up JM. I still can't figure out why LE didn't go after the owner of that truck sometime in the year before it was sold to JM. There's so much that LE does and doesn't do about this case that makes no sense at all.

Just a side note. Like gunfire, burn pits and burn barrels are very common, as are bonfires, out in the country. I'd never pay a bit of attention to them and would probably think folks were just having a party or running their dogs.

 

[rsd1200]

Something to consider: What if it was someone in the W family who was involved in the business of trafficking harder drugs? Perhaps someone was involved in the transportation of them? Perhaps it was somehow linked to people who had land contracts who have been arrested for manufacture or sale of hard drugs? This activity could have been taking place in counties adjacent to Pike County, perhaps not previously known to the Sheriff.

Maybe CR1 made a threat about revealing that in the midst of the custody battle?

WRT shoes on CR1 and GR, it's possible they were still up when attacked. The AR's seem to indicate CR1 was beat up, fought back. They may have been awake.

If they had, as LE said, a couple little weed grows on their land, then that kinda pulls the R's ability to blackmail anyone else about drugs. No one wants a felony or their weed op shut down. If someone who was doing something illegal, was trying to blackmail me and I was doing something illegal, it would be a stalemate.

ETA: However, if it was a rogue cop, that changes the game entirely.

 

[rsd1200]

AW or AM?

Oops, AM.

 

[rsd1200]

If he had keys to the other homes, I wonder who would have known that?

I’m sure it’s possible CRsr could’ve mentioned while working at BBL that his brother had keys to his homes. It’s also possible family members and close friends would’ve known that as well.

BBM
Just a thought, but there may have been several keys floating around, and one day, someone is thinking; Hmmm, now where did I put that key ring??? They finally make a copy from another key, and forget about the lost key ring. It'll turn up...

I swear I don't even remember who has keys to my home. I am not kidding when I say that I have keys to family homes, but don't have one to my own. Living out in the country and within an easy drive of one another, we don't have to hire folks to care for our animals if we go away, for a day, or even a month, we just ask family and they already have the keys. It's also handy if you've ever locked yourself out of the house (raises hand). It saves a locksmith call and a very long wait.

 

[Chelly]

I don’t really think much about the sleepovers because I’ve seen this firsthand with a few families I know. Some families are very close and when you add teenagers and young adults into the mix who have lots of cousins and friends the same age, they like to hang out together.

I’ve thought the late times for pickup and drop off of kids was out of sorts. But I’m basing that off my own parenting where my kids were in bed between 7-8pm when they were babies and toddlers.

I have found it curious that there were so many sleep overs planned for the night of 4/21 that didn’t happen.

And the one that’s never made sense to me is DS. But that’s all JMO.

Thanks for your input. Agree with your questioning of DS arrangements for that night. There is something odd there.

 

[Tripod]

I just wanted to pop in here to let you WSers on this thread know how much I appreciate you keeping this case discussion going. I followed this daily for a long time, then got discouraged at no LE updates or much of any news at all, and life got in the way of my reading here, too I still check in and want to encourage you to keep on keeping on, for this family!

 

[MittenScarpetta]

BBM
Just a thought, but there may have been several keys floating around, and one day, someone is thinking; Hmmm, now where did I put that key ring??? They finally make a copy from another key, and forget about the lost key ring. It'll turn up...

I swear I don't even remember who has keys to my home. I am not kidding when I say that I have keys to family homes, but don't have one to my own. Living out in the country and within an easy drive of one another, we don't have to hire folks to care for our animals if we go away, for a day, or even a month, we just ask family and they already have the keys. It's also handy if you've ever locked yourself out of the house (raises hand). It saves a locksmith call and a very long wait.

I agree. We also don’t know if FR & DR kept a key outside, just like CR1 did (as stated by BJM)

Then there’s KR. My instincts tell me he let his killer(s) in. But that’s JMO.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Thanks for your input. Agree with your questioning of DS arrangements for that night. There is something odd there.

There is. I’ve never been able to reason why he didn’t return the next morning to work on cars, like he stated was the plan. He said he had changed his mind about staying the night but he never said the plan to work on cars was off the table.

And well, there’s no way he didn’t hear about the murders that morning because most people across the country heard about them. I don’t know why he didn’t go check on KR hours earlier when he heard that KR’s close family had been murdered.

Who knows though, I guess he could’ve been asleep. Or maybe hadn’t checked his phone or the news.

 

[rsd1200]

I agree. We also don’t know if FR & DR kept a key outside, just like CR1 did (as stated by BJM)

Then there’s KR. My instincts tell me he let his killer(s) in. But that’s JMO.

KR is an anomaly to me. I have to agree with you about him either letting them in, or, they started out there, and as he was counting his money, getting ready to kick back for the night, they killed him. Maybe he had keys to the other homes, and they took them.

Also, KR's trailer was facing his drive, which is over 200' long. If someone knocks on your door but no car is heard coming up your drive, nor is one in sight, I can attest to the fact that folks antenna go up when strangers show up on your porch late at night without a vehicle, or with one (especially with the meth explosion and everybody thievin' left and right). He lived in a fifth wheel, with a porch. No way his dog wouldn't feel the vibration, and hear folks coming up onto the porch. If he did see a vehicle, but didn't know the vehicle, he'd probably be a bit wary in that instance too. I think he likely knew his killer and he may have been killed just because they used him for something, and if he were alive the next morning, he'd know exactly who did this.