OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[amauet1]

BBM
Coveralls, and possibly a truck. A truck that disappears til any blood is sure to be gone out of the bed, and burn the coveralls.

That one dude found stuff stuffed in a well from a murder years before. There's likely old wells all over those hills too. If you don't know they are there you'll walk right over top of them and never notice. Also, I'd not be surprised if there were caves in that area. Bodies can be stashed in those, so clothing and firearms wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

Could have been as simple as old black clothing. Something laying around or picked up at local goodwill/flea market.

 

[molly1255]

I think that’s all very possible.

But that still leaves me with one question-

IF it was an ordered hit, how did they get in the homes and around the dogs?

I know you’ve suggested they went through the windows. Having lived in a trailer years ago with my mom, I know how hard it is to get in and out of trailer windows. Ours was much newer than the R’s, but the windows themselves were still made of the typical metal framing that’s used in trailer windows (unless you upgrade when you purchase one brand new). That metal HURTS when you climb through and the windows are higher off the ground than standard wooden frames houses.

On top of trailer windows being painful and hard to climb through, a person would also risk being noisy coming through a window, especially if they don’t know what’s on the other side of the window-a bed, a dresser, nightstand etc.

And if there wasn’t anything blocking the windows, surely the dogs would have went crazy at CR1’s and DR’s.

So that leaves me with it may have been an ordered hit, but it still had to be a hit done by at least one person the family knew.

Someone who could at least gain access to one home as a visitor, not a murderer.

Or someone who knew where the key was that BJM mentioned, outside CR1s.

Also, I believe JW made an oops when he stated he picked S up on Thurs, 4/21. He was never supposed to say that OR he said it in an instance known as CYA. He wasn’t supposed to be there on 4/21, but he was worried someone had saw him there and in came the story about picking up his daughter.

JMO

I think coming through a window would have made a lot of noise and once they made it through the window, there would be a big thud when they landed on the floor. I think that would have alerted anyone else in the trailer that someone had gotten in. I think they were let in, or they had keys.

Also agree that JW made a big oops when he said he picked up S, but he may have done it because he thought someone may have saw him. That someone may have been the ex gf of FR's, who was at FR's around 10:30 that night, too.

 

[rsd1200]

I think that’s all very possible.

But that still leaves me with one question-

IF it was an ordered hit, how did they get in the homes and around the dogs?

I know you’ve suggested they went through the windows. Having lived in a trailer years ago with my mom, I know how hard it is to get in and out of trailer windows. Ours was much newer than the R’s, but the windows themselves were still made of the typical metal framing that’s used in trailer windows (unless you upgrade when you purchase one brand new). That metal HURTS when you climb through and the windows are higher off the ground than standard wooden frames houses.

On top of trailer windows being painful and hard to climb through, a person would also risk being noisy coming through a window, especially if they don’t know what’s on the other side of the window-a bed, a dresser, nightstand etc.

And if there wasn’t anything blocking the windows, surely the dogs would have went crazy at CR1’s and DR’s.

So that leaves me with it may have been an ordered hit, but it still had to be a hit done by at least one person the family knew.

Someone who could at least gain access to one home as a visitor, not a murderer.

Or someone who knew where the key was that BJM mentioned, outside CR1s.

Also, I believe JW made an oops when he stated he picked S up on Thurs, 4/21. He was never supposed to say that OR he said it in an instance known as CYA. He wasn’t supposed to be there on 4/21, but he was worried someone had saw him there and in came the story about picking up his daughter.

JMO

BBM

I've lived in trailers;

The first one was nice, but older, and in a neighborhood setting, with a couple other people in the home. Trailers were at least 40 feet or so apart, nothing behind us, and at least 150' to the homes in front of us. I never heard much out of the neighbors and only then if both parties were outdoors. However, within ours, you could hear all us walking across the floors, talking in the other rooms, yelling, vibrations of folks getting up and down. Ours was tied down with cables, and had a decent sized covered deck. You could feel vibrations off the decks, and hear folks moving across them, too.

I've stayed in two others, not so nice, and both in trailer parks, and the trailers were very close together, but, I tended to tune out the noise around me after awhile. I think with noises around us, on a daily basis, we get so used to them, that they become background noise. Folks who come here from a big city can almost hear the silence. I had no deck at those, but, I could have heard, and felt it, if someone was messing with my windows or doors.

I am small framed, but on the taller side, and at that time, I was very, very thin. There's no way I could have gotten in, and out of, those windows quietly, and without leaving dna behind, not to mention, as you noted, the physical pain of going through them.

ETA: Just saw Amauet mentioning the "thud". Absolutely! It's why I went OUT the window in my childhood home's window, and back in, another route. My childhood home was a brick ranch with standard windows. I could go out them but the pain, and "thud" of coming back through the storm window, caused me to have an alternate route to get back inside. I had the two routes, instead of one, because I knew my family's habits, and I knew that home like the back of my hand, so there was good reason that I went out the window too.

 

[MizStery]

I think coming through a window would have made a lot of n <snip>

Also agree that JW made a big oops when he said he picked up S, but he may have done it because he thought someone may have saw him. That someone may have been the ex gf of FR's, who was at FR's around 10:30 that night, too.

Please read my theory and critique!

Those who have surmised that JW was deceitful saying that he retrieved SW at estimated 10:30 pm are correct. JW had to include that lie as part of his statement as to his whereabouts that night. As we know Chelsea dropped off BR and departed at approximately the same time. JW knew Chelsea would mention in her statement that he was already there when she departed.He had to casually mention this in his timeline to pepetrate his deception as to his true purpose that night. If anyone knew the players roles that night he would. He also knew he would be one of the last witnesses pior to the Rhoden slaughter.

I believe 'why' he was there had nothing to do with picking up SW because HR had dropped her off and he had her that week. The fib was to provide coverage for the true mission as why he was at ground zero. It is conjecture as to what type of business placed him there. I believe that text to JM could have been a secret handshake that he was heading back to UHC. Perhaps GR or CRsr had been conned that some transaction was to happen. But they were tricked and the expected arrival was but a cover for the (just my theory) planned orchestrated robbery.

I do do not believe JM knew there was a slaughter of the Rhoden's planned. I think he could have been involved a plan to rob CRsr and he had a small roll to play.

But there was much more planned for UHC and it involved leaving no adults alive.

What was the business at hand and why the slaughter? I do not know?I do not even have a hunch what evil savagery could even carry out these murders.

But it I do believe that JW was at the UHC CS at 10:30 pm and he returned later to finish what was started.

I am not accusing any one else. There were people duped but how the thing was supposed to go down is beyond my abilities.

Sheesh I posted to the wrong thread. Thanks to who ever :beamup: me back to the correct thread #32. :blushing: I really would never have been a success in a college marching band! :laughing:

I posted then looked the new s/w is awesome. Thanks Trisha :clap:
:cow:

 

[Dudly]

Something to consider: What if it was someone in the W family who was involved in the business of trafficking harder drugs? Perhaps someone was involved in the transportation of them? Perhaps it was somehow linked to people who had land contracts who have been arrested for manufacture or sale of hard drugs? This activity could have been taking place in counties adjacent to Pike County, perhaps not previously known to the Sheriff.

Maybe CR1 made a threat about revealing that in the midst of the custody battle?

WRT shoes on CR1 and GR, it's possible they were still up when attacked. The AR's seem to indicate CR1 was beat up, fought back. They may have been awake.

I know it was mentioned in the 911 call that it looked like someone beat the hell out of him. But, if he was shot that many times, he would have looked very bad without being beaten...

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I know it was mentioned in the 911 call that it looked like someone beat the hell out of him. But, if he was shot that many times, he would have looked very bad without being beaten...

A lot of people have commented on the “bruising” noted on the autopsy. There is no doubt bruising noted BUT it’s not specified as perimortem or premortem. I’m actually positive it’s specified, but redacted somewhere within the autopsy.

And IMO that makes a big difference as well-one could mean he was beat while alive and the other could mean his body suffered trauma after his heart stopped beating , ie being drug from one room to another.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Please read my theory and critique!

Those who have surmised that JW was deceitful saying that he retrieved SW at estimated 10:30 pm are correct. JW had to include that lie as part of his statement as to his whereabouts that night. As we know Chelsea dropped off BR and departed at approximately the same time. JW knew Chelsea would mention in her statement that he was already there when she departed.He had to casually mention this in his timeline to pepetrate his deception as to his true purpose that night. If anyone knew the players roles that night he would. He also knew he would be one of the last witnesses pior to the Rhoden slaughter.

I believe 'why' he was there had nothing to do with picking up SW because HR had dropped her off and he had her that week. The fib was to provide coverage for the true mission as why he was at ground zero. It is conjecture as to what type of business placed him there. I believe that text to JM could have been a secret handshake that he was heading back to UHC. Perhaps GR or CRsr had been conned that some transaction was to happen. But they were tricked and the expected arrival was but a cover for the (just my theory) planned orchestrated robbery.

I do do not believe JM knew there was a slaughter of the Rhoden's planned. I think he could have been involved a plan to rob CRsr and he had a small roll to play.

But there was much more planned for UHC and it involved leaving no adults alive.

What was the business at hand and why the slaughter? I do not know?I do not even have a hunch what evil savagery could even carry out these murders.

But it I do believe that JW was at the UHC CS at 10:30 pm and he returned later to finish what was started.

I am not accusing any one else. There were people duped but how the thing was supposed to go down is beyond my abilities.

Sheesh I posted to the wrong thread. Thanks to who ever :beamup: me back to the correct thread #32. :blushing: I really would never have been a success in a college marching band! :laughing:

I posted then looked the new s/w is awesome. Thanks Trisha :clap:
:cow:

I truly wonder if he just showed up there or if HMR knew he was coming over. There’s many scenarios and excuses he could have told HMR and used to just show up unannounced.

 

[Dudly]

KR is an anomaly to me. I have to agree with you about him either letting them in, or, they started out there, and as he was counting his money, getting ready to kick back for the night, they killed him. Maybe he had keys to the other homes, and they took them.

Also, KR's trailer was facing his drive, which is over 200' long. If someone knocks on your door but no car is heard coming up your drive, nor is one in sight, I can attest to the fact that folks antenna go up when strangers show up on your porch late at night without a vehicle, or with one (especially with the meth explosion and everybody thievin' left and right). He lived in a fifth wheel, with a porch. No way his dog wouldn't feel the vibration, and hear folks coming up onto the porch. If he did see a vehicle, but didn't know the vehicle, he'd probably be a bit wary in that instance too. I think he likely knew his killer and he may have been killed just because they used him for something, and if he were alive the next morning, he'd know exactly who did this.

I have wondered if he was expecting someone and left the door unlocked and had Brownie in the bathroom or something so she wouldn't be a problem....

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I have wondered if he was expecting someone and left the door unlocked and had Brownie in the bathroom or something so she wouldn't be a problem....

The retired homicide detective that used to comment on these threads had a theory that DS didn’t tell KR he wasn’t staying the night and KR went to bed leaving the door unlocked expecting DS would be coming over to sleep.

I don’t know if that has any basis, but it’s an interesting theory.

 

[Dudly]

I’ve requested records in other cases, but I’m much further away from those locations.

I’m also curious if all the the search warrants are still sealed. In other cases I’ve followed-some still unsolved-the search warrants were only sealed for a certain amount of time allowed under law.

I know there’s statutes per state regarding the sealing of search warrants, so it’s not something that has one answer.

In this case, from what I recall, even the court order to seal the evidence is itself sealed. I doubt if anything has become public by default...

 

[amauet1]

BBM

I've lived in trailers;

The first one was nice, but older, and in a neighborhood setting, with a couple other people in the home. Trailers were at least 40 feet or so apart, nothing behind us, and at least 150' to the homes in front of us. I never heard much out of the neighbors and only then if both parties were outdoors. However, within ours, you could hear all us walking across the floors, talking in the other rooms, yelling, vibrations of folks getting up and down. Ours was tied down with cables, and had a decent sized covered deck. You could feel vibrations off the decks, and hear folks moving across them, too.

I've stayed in two others, not so nice, and both in trailer parks, and the trailers were very close together, but, I tended to tune out the noise around me after awhile. I think with noises around us, on a daily basis, we get so used to them, that they become background noise. Folks who come here from a big city can almost hear the silence. I had no deck at those, but, I could have heard, and felt it, if someone was messing with my windows or doors.

I am small framed, but on the taller side, and at that time, I was very, very thin. There's no way I could have gotten in, and out of, those windows quietly, and without leaving dna behind, not to mention, as you noted, the physical pain of going through them.

ETA: Just saw Amauet mentioning the "thud". Absolutely! It's why I went OUT the window in my childhood home's window, and back in, another route. My childhood home was a brick ranch with standard windows. I could go out them but the pain, and "thud" of coming back through the storm window, caused me to have an alternate route to get back inside. I had the two routes, instead of one, because I knew my family's habits, and I knew that home like the back of my hand, so there was good reason that I went out the window too.

Molly mentioned the thud, but thanks.

 

[rsd1200]

I've been wondering about the fight that OPs were discussing. If it's the one where the kids came out and the Rs met them with firearms and ball bats, I don't think that LE was called. I've always heard that the young people left, but blustered about it on FB.

The one thing that got me confused at one point, about cops being called, was the April 25 interview with LM. At :58 he's talking about, they (LE) let his daughter, and his grandson, take their vehicles, then he goes directly into; Saturday evening we had a big conflict up here... The video was released, in an article, on Monday, April the 25th. I am almost positive that he's talking about a big conflict, with the deputies, and such, on the Saturday evening after the murders, because of the way he went from his family's vehicles, into the conflict with the deputies. I feel it was about JM's vehicle, too. Just thought I'd toss it out there.

https://globalnews.ca/video/2660827/father-of-ohio-shooting-victim-says-suspect-knew-rhoden-family

 

[Betty P]

LOL, I posted a reply to the questions about reference to bruising on some victims in the autopsy reports, but it seems to have disappeared. Oh well.

Shorter version: The coroner seemed to reference some victims were involved in a struggle when she noted the bruising.

 

[Betty P]

In this case, from what I recall, even the court order to seal the evidence is itself sealed. I doubt if anything has become public by default...

Agree, and they will probably stay that way until the case is solved and the trial is over (if it ever gets to that). We've discussed this before in relation to other cases where the news media and outsiders question the decisions of prosecutors & LE.

Questions about revealing evidence to the public has been relevant in cases where prosecutors/ME's rule cases as accidental or suicide when they were, in fact, homicide. An example I quoted was the Rebecca Zahau case, where her death was ruled suicide, but was later ruled homicide at the hand of her brother in law.

LE revealed some evidence in that case, but kept some details and evidence hidden. The ruling was questioned by the family and public. When the family gained access to all the evidence files and found many omitted details actually indicated homicide, it was very awkward for LE.

DeWine, et al seem intent on keeping as many details as possible from the public in the Rhoden cases. While they claim it's to enable them to rule out false confessions, a good deal of the withheld info isn't really relevant to making a case if they arrest the killers. It seems most likely, JMO, that the info is withheld because they don't want to be second guessed on their investigation. They don't want outside experts questioning their assumptions and conclusions.

JMO, at this point, it's likely the killers will never be arrested and even the most elementary details of the murders won't be revealed, outside of what we may eventually hear from family and witnesses. Hopefully, the family and others will some day no longer feel threatened and will reveal any details they know to the public.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I've been wondering about the fight that OPs were discussing. If it's the one where the kids came out and the Rs met them with firearms and ball bats, I don't think that LE was called. I've always heard that the young people left, but blustered about it on FB.

The one thing that got me confused at one point, about cops being called, was the April 25 interview with LM. At :58 he's talking about, they (LE) let his daughter, and his grandson, take their vehicles, then he goes directly into; Saturday evening we had a big conflict up here... The video was released, in an article, on Monday, April the 25th. I am almost positive that he's talking about a big conflict, with the deputies, and such, on the Saturday evening after the murders, because of the way he went from his family's vehicles, into the conflict with the deputies. I feel it was about JM's vehicle, too. Just thought I'd toss it out there.

https://globalnews.ca/video/2660827/father-of-ohio-shooting-victim-says-suspect-knew-rhoden-family

It’s interesting LE kept his truck he owned at the time of the murders BUT when he got the red truck, they put a gps on it.

If they believed the red truck was involved in the commission of a murder, why wouldn’t they seize and process that truck as well?

ETA-instead of seizing the red truck with a warrant, LE placed a GPS.

 

[Betty P]

It’s interesting LE kept his truck he owned at the time of the murders BUT when he got the red truck, they put a gps on it.

If they believed the red truck was involved in the commission of a murder, why wouldn’t they seize and process that truck as well?

If LE knew the red truck was involved in the murders, why didn't they question that owner and search the truck back then? That owner should have been examined very closely - cell phone records, polygraph, etc. Why did LE wait for over a year to investigate JM, when he didn't own it during the murders? JMO, the red truck was just an excuse to try to build a case against JM, to get him and the other Manleys before the Grand Jury.

JM's arrest and the GJ testimony are the only incidents that finally persuaded LM to stop talking to the news media. That may also have been a reason. Prosecutor Junk seems to have a habit of using GJ proceedings to silence people and make cases disappear or go cold.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

LOL, I posted a reply to the questions about reference to bruising on some victims in the autopsy reports, but it seems to have disappeared. Oh well.

Shorter version: The coroner seemed to reference some victims were involved in a struggle when she noted the bruising.

I’ll go back and reread for the 100th time LOL I’ve never caught the indication of a struggle by the coroner, I just remember the soft tissue bruising that was noted.

I don’t doubt there was a struggle. I should have clarified better in my post.

I am curious how many of those contusions (soft tissue bruising) were before death and after death. How many of the bruises were related to the gunshot wounds which also cause bruising.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

If LE knew the red truck was involved in the murders, why didn't they question that owner and search the truck back then? That owner should have been examined very closely - cell phone records, polygraph, etc. Why did LE wait for over a year to investigate JM, when he didn't own it during the murders? JMO, the red truck was just an excuse to try to build a case against JM, to get him and the other Manleys before the Grand Jury.

JM's arrest and the GJ testimony are the only incidents that finally persuaded LM to stop talking to the news media. That may also have been a reason. Prosecutor Junk seems to have a habit of using GJ proceedings to silence people and make cases disappear or go cold.

This is the thing though- in order to get a warrant, the information on the warrant has to be be factual and truth.

LE can lie all they want in press conferences, interviews, statements, etc but they CANNOT lie on a warrant.

If they lie on a warrant, any evidence obtained from that warrant is thrown out AND in JM’s case, if they lied on the warrant for the truck, he could probably own the state of Ohio for defamation, unjust pretenses, loss of wages, pain and suffering etc via a civil lawsuit.

I still believe there was something that lead them to that truck.

But I do agree, the original owner should have been sought out, polygraphed, investigated.

I also believe that truck should have been confiscated and processed.

 

[Betty P]

This is the thing though- in order to get a warrant, the information on the warrant has to be be factual and truth.

LE can lie all they want in press conferences, interviews, statements, etc but they CANNOT lie on a warrant.

If they lie on a warrant, any evidence obtained from that warrant is thrown out AND in JM&#8217;s case, if they lied on the warrant for the truck, he could probably own the state of Ohio for defamation, unjust pretenses, loss of wages, pain and suffering etc via a civil lawsuit.

I still believe there was something that lead them to that truck.

But I do agree, the original owner should have been sought out, polygraphed, investigated.

I also believe that truck should have been confiscated and processed.

If they were telling the truth about the red truck, they must have some information that leads them to think it was used in connection with "a murder" (note they never said it was the Rhoden/Gilley murders). If they had a witness statement, security video, etc., it should have been enough to get a search warrant for the truck. They were able to get a SW from a judge for the GPS, so....

Speaking of vehicles, while researching corruption in SE Ohio, I came across this article. Probably not relevant, but interesting. I don't think like a criminal and am always amazed at how creative people can be when it comes to "making money".

http://www.news-herald.com/general-...st-ohio-ex-sheriffs-appeal-in-corruption-case

Kelly was accused of pocketing cash by selling county vehicles to a salvage yard and spending public money on clothes and meals. His attorney argued that Kelly traded forfeited vehicles for cash that was used for law enforcement purposes.

This guy was selling county vehicles and forfeited vehicles (probably seized during drug arrests) to a salvage yard, then keeping the cash. I suppose someone could make good money doing this, if they kept "funny" books that weren't audited. Also wonder if other county officials use the same practice to raise "personal" cash - selling forfeited vehicles for salvage. Maybe selling them for a price, but listing a lower value on the books.

ETA: Apparently, former Athens County Sheriff Kelly claimed he used cash from the sale of forfeited vehicles to pay "confidential informants".

https://www.athensnews.com/news/loc...cle_0849f57c-d29f-11e6-a4bb-4fde907ad8b6.html

ETA2: This former Sheriff Kelly guy gets more interesting. He was called to testify in the trial of an elderly man he arrested for growing marijuana on his property. The defendant apparently served as his own attorney and questioned Kelly (who came from prison to testify in court) about how Kelly discovered he was growing MJ, whether the amount confiscated was weighed and about procedures for storing MJ in the evidence room. The implication seems to be that Kelly or officers misrepresented how much was seized and were possibly selling confiscated MJ.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/loc...cle_48230fc0-e8a8-11e6-8e86-ab04d6610dbb.html

Again, not saying Kelly was involved in the Rhoden murders, he was in jail at the time. But it makes you wonder if his activities and methods are similar to those of LE in other areas of SE Ohio. Wonder if some LE have been playing these games with MJ growers in SE Ohio for a long time. JMO.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

LOL, I posted a reply to the questions about reference to bruising on some victims in the autopsy reports, but it seems to have disappeared. Oh well.

Shorter version: The coroner seemed to reference some victims were involved in a struggle when she noted the bruising.

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/...BCI/Pike-County-Final-Autopsies-REDACTED.aspx

I’ve re-read it again. The only victim I see a fresh contusion on is CRjr, noted to the left elbow and left forearm.

Am I missing something? The redaction is significant and even redacts terms that are not abnormal.