OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[Betty P]

If they had, as LE said, a couple little weed grows on their land, then that kinda pulls the R's ability to blackmail anyone else about drugs. No one wants a felony or their weed op shut down. If someone who was doing something illegal, was trying to blackmail me and I was doing something illegal, it would be a stalemate.

ETA: However, if it was a rogue cop, that changes the game entirely.

JMO, if CR1 was only growing weed, but threatened to expose W's if they were engaged in trafficking of hard drugs, it ups the ante a great deal. The penalties for hard drugs are much heftier than for growing weed. The W's may have already threatened CR1 over his own grow op and he may have felt he had nothing to lose. W's may have been willing to pull out all the stops in order to get custody of S. It's also possible they weren't aware that CR1 knew of their other drug activities.

It seems there was something explosive that happened in the custody dispute that resulted in the W's deciding to participate in the murders of 8 Rhoden family members. It had to be something really big in that battle to trigger such drastic action. Not an impulsive act, but something set off a deliberate plan to kill them all. A decision that resulted in a time period of intense planning to carry it out. Something CR1 or others said that caused a drastic yet controlled plan to annihilate an entire family.

JMO, CR1 said or did something that crossed a line and put his family in danger and it was done in the heat of the custody battle. He may not have made a direct threat, but he stood up to the W's in a way they felt it necessary to interpret a threat or concoct one.

What was said or threatened? What else could have tipped the scales towards pre-planned mass murder of 8 family members? When LE responded to the fight on UHR a couple weeks before the murders, did CR1 make a direct or indirect threat against LE when they responded? Who called LE that night & which county responded?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

JMO, if CR1 was only growing weed, but threatened to expose W's if they were engaged in trafficking of hard drugs, it ups the ante a great deal. The penalties for hard drugs are much heftier than for growing weed. The W's may have already threatened CR1 over his own grow op and he may have felt he had nothing to lose. W's may have been willing to pull out all the stops in order to get custody of S. It's also possible they weren't aware that CR1 knew of their other drug activities.

It seems there was something explosive that happened in the custody dispute that resulted in the W's deciding to participate in the murders of 8 Rhoden family members. It had to be something really big in that battle to trigger such drastic action. Not an impulsive act, but something set off a deliberate plan to kill them all. A decision that resulted in a time period of intense planning to carry it out. Something CR1 or others said that caused a drastic yet controlled plan to annihilate an entire family.

JMO, CR1 said or did something that crossed a line and put his family in danger and it was done in the heat of the custody battle. He may not have made a direct threat, but he stood up to the W's in a way they felt it necessary to interpret a threat or concoct one.

What was said or threatened? What else could have tipped the scales towards pre-planned mass murder of 8 family members? When LE responded to the fight on UHR a couple weeks before the murders, did CR1 make a direct or indirect threat against LE when they responded? Who called LE that night & which county responded?

I’ve heard contradicting statements regarding LE responding to the fight a couple weeks prior. BUT if they did, there would be a report on file in either Adams or Pike County. That’s protocol across the board anytime LE responds to a call and it is public record.

I’m sure the media would have picked up that report long ago if it existed. I don’t know that prior reports outside of a homicide investigation can be sealed-if they exist unless they are sealed by an agency such as CPS, which wouldn’t be be case for that instance.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for your input. Agree with your questioning of DS arrangements for that night. There is something odd there.

There's always been a question over KR's daughter saying KR planned to go to work in Columbus as usual that day and DS saying he planned to work on cars. Which was it? Seems if he was planning to skip work (and a day's pay) to stay home to "work on cars", he would have told others besides DS.

Was it possible he stayed home from work for other reasons? Security concerns? Work on the grow op? Or had he really planned all along to go to work at his regular job?

 

[Betty P]

I’ve heard contradicting statements regarding LE responding to the fight a couple weeks prior. BUT if they did, there would be a report on file in either Adams or Pike County. That’s protocol across the board anytime LE responds to a call and it is public record.

I’m sure the media would have picked up that report long ago if it existed. I don’t know that prior reports outside of a homicide investigation can be sealed-if they exist unless they are sealed by an agency such as CPS, which wouldn’t be be case for that instance.

It's interesting that no news outlet has requested that info or reported on it, to our knowledge. Anyone want to volunteer to call Pike or Adams county to request a copy of the report?

 

[RichP]

Rich P,

Since you posted today, I’m curious if you’re thoughts are still the same as what they were when this happened? Do you still think believe these murders were drug related in some way?

I just wanna pick your brain [emoji12] I’ve tried to get on board with the drug theories, I just don’t see it and I don’t know why.

Hi Mitten,

My thoughts haven't changed since the murders occurred. They are in some way connected to drugs, probably of a "white" type, either pills or heroin. I don't think the R's were dealing but had something to do with the transporting through that area.

I believe that CRsr was main target with DR, FR and maybe GR as people he would have talked with. The rest of the people were just collateral damage. I tend to think that KR [perhaps unwittingly] "helped" in the commission of the crimes. Whether it was to silence them because certain powerful people thought they were going to talk or it was to eliminate competition I don't know.

I don't think it had anything to do with child custody. If it was why kill KR? I don't think it was an "Appalachian feud" type of thing because if it was the little kids would have targeted as well.

I believe there were about three actual perpetrators. If they were from outside the area than they certainly had close familia help in knowing when everyone would be home. Outsiders, scouting around for as long as it would have taken to get an accurate picture of the situation, would have drawn attention to themselves. If the perpetrators were local than I think they would be related to each other.

I could go on with the amount of corruption I believe there is in that area going all the way to Columbus but you get the idea.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

It's interesting that no news outlet has requested that info or reported on it, to our knowledge. Anyone want to volunteer to call Pike or Adams county to request a copy of the report?

I’ve thought about it but I have to admit, it’s intimidating and a bit scary in my mind to put your name out there in a county where there’s an unsolved mass murder of 8.

 

[Betty P]

I’ve thought about it but I have to admit, it’s intimidating and a bit scary in my mind to put your name out there in a county where there’s an unsolved mass murder of 8.

No kidding. Who knows which party out there has an ax to grind against members of the public asking questions? Not just Pike County, but at the state capitol, too. I know in other cases here at WS, members have reached out to people connected to cases they're following - family and LE. I'd be reluctant to do that in this case, but someone should, especially if this case goes cold.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

No kidding. Who knows which party out there has an ax to grind against members of the public asking questions? Not just Pike County, but at the state capitol, too. I know in other cases here at WS, members have reached out to people connected to cases they're following - family and LE. I'd be reluctant to do that in this case, but someone should, especially if this case goes cold.

I’ve requested records in other cases, but I’m much further away from those locations.

I’m also curious if all the the search warrants are still sealed. In other cases I’ve followed-some still unsolved-the search warrants were only sealed for a certain amount of time allowed under law.

I know there’s statutes per state regarding the sealing of search warrants, so it’s not something that has one answer.

 

[rsd1200]

JMO, if CR1 was only growing weed, but threatened to expose W's if they were engaged in trafficking of hard drugs, it ups the ante a great deal. The penalties for hard drugs are much heftier than for growing weed. The W's may have already threatened CR1 over his own grow op and he may have felt he had nothing to lose. W's may have been willing to pull out all the stops in order to get custody of S. It's also possible they weren't aware that CR1 knew of their other drug activities.

It seems there was something explosive that happened in the custody dispute that resulted in the W's deciding to participate in the murders of 8 Rhoden family members. It had to be something really big in that battle to trigger such drastic action. Not an impulsive act, but something set off a deliberate plan to kill them all. A decision that resulted in a time period of intense planning to carry it out. Something CR1 or others said that caused a drastic yet controlled plan to annihilate an entire family.

JMO, CR1 said or did something that crossed a line and put his family in danger and it was done in the heat of the custody battle. He may not have made a direct threat, but he stood up to the W's in a way they felt it necessary to interpret a threat or concoct one.

What was said or threatened? What else could have tipped the scales towards pre-planned mass murder of 8 family members? When LE responded to the fight on UHR a couple weeks before the murders, did CR1 make a direct or indirect threat against LE when they responded? Who called LE that night & which county responded?

If he had the kind of grow op that they said he did, he was facing a felony(ies), if discovered, and, his income was down the drain, along with helping other folks out (expensive derby cars, places to live, vehicles for his kids, etc...) along with buying property for himself, also, having his, and his brothers', property being seized.... All those vehicles they were selling? That's another business down the drain. He had a lot to lose. I don't see CR1 jeopardizing his income stream(s).

 

[Betty P]

Hi Mitten,

My thoughts haven't changed since the murders occurred. They are in some way connected to drugs, probably of a "white" type, either pills or heroin. I don't think the R's were dealing but had something to do with the transporting through that area.

I believe that CRsr was main target with DR, FR and maybe GR as people he would have talked with. The rest of the people were just collateral damage. I tend to think that KR [perhaps unwittingly] "helped" in the commission of the crimes. Whether it was to silence them because certain powerful people thought they were going to talk or it was to eliminate competition I don't know.

I don't think it had anything to do with child custody. If it was why kill KR? I don't think it was an "Appalachian feud" type of thing because if it was the little kids would have targeted as well.

I believe there were about three actual perpetrators. If they were from outside the area than they certainly had close familia help in knowing when everyone would be home. Outsiders, scouting around for as long as it would have taken to get an accurate picture of the situation, would have drawn attention to themselves. If the perpetrators were local than I think they would be related to each other.

I could go on with the amount of corruption I believe there is in that area going all the way to Columbus but you get the idea.

Good post! I agree. It took something very serious to warrant killing 8 people, likely more than just MJ or custody alone.

Thanks also for mentioning the long-established corruption in the area and in Columbus. Followers of this case who aren't from Ohio or don't know it's history may not fully grok the situation. The extensive cover up of everything involving the murders (including spending of large sums of money to keep the trailers locked up from public view) is testimony to that, IMO. Certain things unknown to us could harm people in high places, JMO. These are people powerful enough to get reporters from major news outlets removed from their jobs and coverage of the Rhoden murders story shut down in media outlets across the US.

BCI & DeWine took over this investigation within an hour or two of the 911 call, somewhat unusual. The hostile messages sent by LE to the "killers" were probably meant for the public at large - keep your mouth shut or you'll have problems, too. It was reflected in LM's quote about "them" covering things up for years.

Something bad happened and it threatened to spread to powerful people not involved in the killing who stood to lose a great deal anyway. It's a domino effect as each small time corrupt official exposed leads to investigation of someone else in the network, higher up the ladder. From the very first day, I had the impression of people putting out fires ahead of investigating murders.

To view the fault lines in this battle, to ascertain who was trusted, take a look at a couple of things:

• The county prosecutors who sent letters to the Ohio Supreme Court in support of DeWine's position on keeping the unredacted Rhoden autopsy reports from the news media (those who supported the Cincinnati & Columbus newspapers will probably suffer some consequences for their choice

• The outside LE officials who came to Pike County to "assist" with the investigation in the beginning. Unlike the FBI, these LEO's were allowed to participate in searches and interview witnesses.

• The LE agencies that were allowed to participate in the raids on the W properties

I could go on, but corruption is definitely a part of this case. The way LE and prosecutors have spent large amounts of money and worked so hard to hide nearly every detail about the investigation, evidence and crimes. JMO, it's unprecedented in US murder investigations.

 

[Betty P]

I’ve requested records in other cases, but I’m much further away from those locations.

I’m also curious if all the the search warrants are still sealed. In other cases I’ve followed-some still unsolved-the search warrants were only sealed for a certain amount of time allowed under law.

I know there’s statutes per state regarding the sealing of search warrants, so it’s not something that has one answer.

Maybe that's what we need: someone who is farther away from Ohio to makes some requests for information. A good place to start might be requesting records of what happened on UHR in the weeks before the murders. There are locals who probably know what happened that night when LE was called, but know not to speak publicly about it. By now, most have probably been called before a GJ and can't discuss it. It doesn't seem right to pressure them to come forward as there might be serious consequences for doing so.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

KR is an anomaly to me. I have to agree with you about him either letting them in, or, they started out there, and as he was counting his money, getting ready to kick back for the night, they killed him. Maybe he had keys to the other homes, and they took them.

Also, KR's trailer was facing his drive, which is over 200' long. If someone knocks on your door but no car is heard coming up your drive, nor is one in sight, I can attest to the fact that folks antenna go up when strangers show up on your porch late at night without a vehicle, or with one (especially with the meth explosion and everybody thievin' left and right). He lived in a fifth wheel, with a porch. No way his dog wouldn't feel the vibration, and hear folks coming up onto the porch. If he did see a vehicle, but didn't know the vehicle, he'd probably be a bit wary in that instance too. I think he likely knew his killer and he may have been killed just because they used him for something, and if he were alive the next morning, he'd know exactly who did this.

I think he was killed so they could get the keys to the other homes. Or at least the key to CR1's.

I think they started with KR much earlier in the evening, around 9 or 10 PM, just as he was getting ready to go to sleep for an early start to work the next morning. He had a long drive to work the next morning so I think he would have went to bed early.

This was a week night. We know FR was up at 10:30 PM. We know DR was up at midnight. We think CR1 and GR might have been awake.

If they killed KR earlier to get the keys to the homes there was no one really who might have checked on him or called him because anyone who knew him figured he would be in bed because he had to get up early.

I think they ended at DR's.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

O/T but is the "Thanks" button seeming to work properly for everyone else? I click it a lot, while on my laptop, not as often when using Taptalk, b/c I just hate using my phone for much other than browsing, but, I noticed, while browsing on TapTalk yesterday, that my "Thanks" weren't showing up on posts that I'd "Thanked" on my laptop. So, I went back and did some thanking... If it's not showing that I've thanked folks for their input, please know that I appreciate every post, and have thanked a whole bunch, but, it may not be showing up. So, if it isn't, Thank You to everyone!!!! :loveyou:

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I think he was killed so they could get the keys to the other homes. Or at least the key to CR1's.

I think they started with KR much earlier in the evening, around 9 or 10 PM, just as he was getting ready to go to sleep for an early start to work the next morning. He had a long drive to work the next morning so I think he would have went to bed early.

This was a week night. We know FR was up at 10:30 PM. We know DR was up at midnight. We think CR1 and GR might have been awake.

If they killed KR earlier to get the keys to the homes there was no one really who might have checked on him or called him because anyone who knew him figured he would be in bed because he had to get up early.

I think they ended at DR's.

JMO

Does anyone know who the last person to see KR alive was?

I always thought it was DS the night prior, but that was a poor assumption on my part because he was supposed to stay the night.

Maybe that’s been clarified before and I overlooked it or forgot about it, i dont know.

 

[Betty P]

If he had the kind of grow op that they said he did, he was facing a felony(ies), if discovered, and, his income was down the drain, along with helping other folks out (expensive derby cars, places to live, vehicles for his kids, etc...) along with buying property for himself, also, having his, and his brothers', property being seized.... All those vehicles they were selling? That's another business down the drain. He had a lot to lose. I don't see CR1 jeopardizing his income stream(s).

If this was the scenario, CR1 had no choice. The W's had probably already threatened to reveal his grow ops if the family didn't give up custody of S. W's may have had connections in LE or elsewhere that made them feel protected. They probably thought they could successfully bully CR1 into telling HR to give up custody. Perhaps he decided to up the ante by threatening to expose their criminal involvement, which may have included more serious drugs than weed. W's went up the chain of command and a hit was ordered.

If this was the W's calculated plan, it has worked well so far. They have been protected. Efforts to frame the Manleys haven't been wholly successful. Attempts to blame it on other locals haven't worked yet, either. But they have pulled everyone into GJ, threatened and shut them up. Some have been sent to jail for other offenses. W's were allowed to pull up stakes and move to AK.

So far, it's buried.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

If this was the scenario, CR1 had no choice. The W's had probably already threatened to reveal his grow ops if the family didn't give up custody of S. W's may have had connections in LE or elsewhere that made them feel protected. They probably thought they could successfully bully CR1 into telling HR to give up custody. Perhaps he decided to up the ante by threatening to expose their criminal involvement, which may have included more serious drugs than weed. W's went up the chain of command and a hit was ordered.

If this was the W's calculated plan, it has worked well so far. They have been protected. Efforts to frame the Manleys haven't been wholly successful. Attempts to blame it on other locals haven't worked yet, either. But they have pulled everyone into GJ, threatened and shut them up. Some have been sent to jail for other offenses. W's were allowed to pull up stakes and move to AK.

So far, it's buried.

I think that’s all very possible.

But that still leaves me with one question-

IF it was an ordered hit, how did they get in the homes and around the dogs?

I know you’ve suggested they went through the windows. Having lived in a trailer years ago with my mom, I know how hard it is to get in and out of trailer windows. Ours was much newer than the R’s, but the windows themselves were still made of the typical metal framing that’s used in trailer windows (unless you upgrade when you purchase one brand new). That metal HURTS when you climb through and the windows are higher off the ground than standard wooden frames houses.

On top of trailer windows being painful and hard to climb through, a person would also risk being noisy coming through a window, especially if they don’t know what’s on the other side of the window-a bed, a dresser, nightstand etc.

And if there wasn’t anything blocking the windows, surely the dogs would have went crazy at CR1’s and DR’s.

So that leaves me with it may have been an ordered hit, but it still had to be a hit done by at least one person the family knew.

Someone who could at least gain access to one home as a visitor, not a murderer.

Or someone who knew where the key was that BJM mentioned, outside CR1s.

Also, I believe JW made an oops when he stated he picked S up on Thurs, 4/21. He was never supposed to say that OR he said it in an instance known as CYA. He wasn’t supposed to be there on 4/21, but he was worried someone had saw him there and in came the story about picking up his daughter.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

I think that’s all very possible.

But that still leaves me with one question-

IF it was an ordered hit, how did they get in the homes and around the dogs?

I know you’ve suggested they went through the windows. Having lived in a trailer years ago with my mom, I know how hard it is to get in and out of trailer windows. Ours was much newer than the R’s, but the windows themselves were still made of the typical metal framing that’s used in trailer windows (unless you upgrade when you purchase one brand new). That metal HURTS when you climb through and the windows are higher off the ground than standard wooden frames houses.

On top of trailer windows being painful and hard to climb through, a person would also risk being noisy coming through a window, especially if they don’t know what’s on the other side of the window-a bed, a dresser, nightstand etc.

And if there wasn’t anything blocking the windows, surely the dogs would have went crazy at CR1’s and DR’s.

So that leaves me with it may have been an ordered hit, but it still had to be a hit done by at least one person the family knew.

Someone who could at least gain access to one home as a visitor, not a murderer.

Or someone who knew where the key was that BJM mentioned, outside CR1s.

Also, I believe JW made an oops when he stated he picked S up on Thurs, 4/21. He was never supposed to say that OR he said it in an instance known as CYA. He wasn’t supposed to be there on 4/21, but he was worried someone had saw him there and in came the story about picking up his daughter.

JMO

I'm running around a lot today, so let me find some time to sit down and write it out. However it happened, they knew where dangerous dogs were located and planned to deal with them. Same with the doors. The biggest danger they faced was having any of the victims awaken and grab guns and cell phones. Having one person come along who knew the dogs would have helped, likely the same person who surveilled the families for the killers. Possibly the same person who drove the red truck.

Another question I've always had was who among family or acquaintances behaved oddly in the days just before and after the murders. Who missed work, changed their appearance, changed their habits and routines, had difficulty sleeping, behaved erratically, disappeared for periods of time without telling anyone where they were? The actual killers may not have known the Rhodens, had no emotional attachment to them, may not have even been from the area. But the person who helped them may have exhibited strange behavior before and after the murders.

I can't figure out the windows, but one was opened at CR1's. We saw it in the video and photos, BJM mentioned it.

Let me put together a more detailed timeline for each crime scene and see what we come up with.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I'm running around a lot today, so let me find some time to sit down and write it out. However it happened, they knew where dangerous dogs were located and planned to deal with them. Same with the doors. The biggest danger they faced was having any of the victims awaken and grab guns and cell phones. Having one person come along who knew the dogs would have helped, likely the same person who surveilled the families for the killers. Possibly the same person who drove the red truck.

Another question I've always had was who among family or acquaintances behaved oddly in the days just before and after the murders. Who missed work, changed their appearance, changed their habits and routines, had difficulty sleeping, behaved erratically, disappeared for periods of time without telling anyone where they were? The actual killers may not have known the Rhodens, had no emotional attachment to them, may not have even been from the area. But the person who helped them may have exhibited strange behavior before and after the murders.

I can't figure out the windows, but one was opened at CR1's. We saw it in the video and photos, BJM mentioned it.

Let me put together a more detailed timeline for each crime scene and see what we come up with.

Sounds good! I believe a window was open at FR’s as well. I think I remember reading that somewhere in an article AND seeing a window open in a picture on the back of FR’s house. CR’s was the front window with a curtain hanging out and snagged on something , that faced in the direction of FR’s.

 

[amauet1]

I’ve considered many times that CR1, in defense of HMR & S, could’ve made a threat to expose people for who they really are.

That’s still not off the table for me.

I just truly think there has to be something very significant regarding the 4 transplanted Alaskans because of the comments that have been made publicly.

I’m not sure all of what you stated could be stated and clear this case up in 3 seconds, like Junk said.

His statement has made it seem like the motive is really quite simple and all of the surrounding factors we all know about, aren’t really that simple. It’s quite a tangled intertwined web.

ETA-just saw your edit about shoes. That’s just a guess on my part. I can’t and have never been able to figure out why toe tags are not mentioned (or redacted) in those two autopsies, but are in the other 6. Not trying to be callous or insensitive in any way, I know autopsy reports are very emotional for surviving family.

I too am not certain of the involvement of the Wagner's. IMO a lot of the story we have come up with, fits them to a tee. So why hasn't the case been solved? I also believe that the more people involved in this case, the easier for a leak. You always have someone in a group who wants to save their own azz, over yours. But in families, the members would be constantly worried about one of their own talking and you would have to keep them all around you, all the time to avoid them talking. Which families are doing that? I believe the W's could have provided info and guns, type of vehicle, ammo since that is what LE said they wanted witnesses to those things to come forward. I don't see the W's paying a pro to do this, since it seemed they were in debt all over the place. Example: House was in boys names, money owned on property due to non-payment of barn, go-fund-me page set up to help pay for lawyer in custody suit. selling off animals and equipment before leaving. Seemed to me they were trying to gather as much cash as they could for their move to Alaska.
Who needed a pro to kill these people, when it seems a lot of the community, friends and family were fighting with them over different things? Yes, all the problems this family was going through was part of the planned murders. And so far, only that part of the plan has worked for the Killers. Running down all the leads given to BCI, has been a factor in the time it is taking to solve this. I mean look at all the different theories we have come up with in 2 years on hardly any information.
I to believe that CRsr and GR were awake when attacked. I believe that CRsr was called to the "office trailer" for something . Divide and conquer, get your strongest foe seperated from the pack, to take him down easier. Plus to have enough time to torture him for info or just vengenge or both. From the number of shots and the blanks on the autopsy, it seems to me, someone took great joy in hurting him. GR seems to have fought a little to because of the knuckles on one of his hands.

 

[amauet1]

I think that AW said she spoke with DR after, or near, midnight. If the assailant(s) had gotten there at 10:30p, killed HMR and CR2, they'd had to have sat there til DR came home, and ambush her. DR would not have been able to talk to AW or be posting online around midnight.

Did you mean AM?