GUILTY OH - Steubenville Rape Case, 11 Aug 2012 #2

[Steely Dan]

She sounds like a real gem....

It's very comforting to know that you guys still have eyes on this... I'm looking forward to upcoming arrests!!

This is strictly rumor. The article I read that had this in it never called it fact, but anonymous evidently pulled pictures of the assault off of one of the coaches computer. The rumor was that the coach was paying players to do some attacks like this and photograph it for him. The rumor also says that he threw his computer away. Hopefully it's still on the mainframe.

This is why I think the IT guy is important to the investigation. He deleted a lot of stuff from the system. If it's unretrieveable he could testify to what he was told to eliminate. He could be the most important witness in this case. JMO

 

[bexlex]

This is strictly rumor. The article I read that had this in it never called it fact, but anonymous evidently pulled pictures of the assault off of one of the coaches computer. The rumor was that the coach was paying players to do some attacks like this and photograph it for him. The rumor also says that he threw his computer away. Hopefully it's still on the mainframe.

This is why I think the IT guy is important to the investigation. He deleted a lot of stuff from the system. If it's unretrieveable he could testify to what he was told to eliminate. He could be the most important witness in this case. JMO

Didn't one of the players say that the coach was going to take care of everything? I just assumed that meant "make sure we don't get in trouble". I'll bet that IT guy is under a lot of pressure from the community right now. Hard to understand how a kids sport could result in so much power for the "elite".

 

[Steely Dan]

Didn't one of the players say that the coach was going to take care of everything? I just assumed that meant "make sure we don't get in trouble". I'll bet that IT guy is under a lot of pressure from the community right now. Hard to understand how a kids sport could result in so much power for the "elite".

I love football, but I don't get the phenomenon of High School Football. It's like crack to some communities. There's a kid in Texas(?) who was a backup offensive lineman who ran over another kid. A girl who was in the car testified that he was laughing and backed over him. The kid got probation. He ended up getting his probation revoked for leaving the house and going to a drinking party. IIRC

 

[ArianeEmory]

Didn't one of the players say that the coach was going to take care of everything? I just assumed that meant "make sure we don't get in trouble". I'll bet that IT guy is under a lot of pressure from the community right now. Hard to understand how a kids sport could result in so much power for the "elite".

I don't get it either. And it seems we're seeing more and more of these cases. I thought this whole thing was just a television cliche. I am so grateful we have Anonymous at times like this.

 

[erik28]

This is developing, but 4 more indictments are out: http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/25/justice/ohio-steubenville-rape-case/index.html

Belardine, McVey, and a school teacher and principal. None for Reno.

 

[i.b.nora]

"Superintendent Michael McVey was the only one of the four to be charged Monday with felonies: a count of tampering with evidence and two counts of obstructing justice. He also is charged with two misdemeanors: making a false statement and obstructing official business.

A school teacher and an elementary school principal were charged with failure to report child abuse or neglect. A volunteer assistant Steubenville football coach, Matt Belardine, was charged with four misdemeanors: allowing underage drinking; obstructing official business; making a false statement; and contributing to the unruliness or delinquency of a child."

 

[bexlex]

"Superintendent Michael McVey was the only one of the four to be charged Monday with felonies: .......

A school teacher and an elementary school principal were charged with failure to report child abuse or neglect. A volunteer assistant Steubenville football coach, Matt Belardine, was charged with four misdemeanors:."

Are they just dipping their toes in to see if the water is nice?? Where are the high school level coaches etc.???

 

[JeannaT]

The elephant in the room, in my opinion, is everyone is trying to act like this doesn't happen ALL THE TIME. It's like the Lance Armstrong thing. Everyone acted so shocked and shaming, hello, all competitive bikers at that level dope. All of them.

This kind of thing goes on at every large high school, every couple years. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is an unusual case - football players get drunk at a party and a girl who wants to be popular has sex with them and then gets shamed when the story gets out and it's awful. And the coaches/principals give everyone a stern lecture to stop passing the photos around, they tell all the kids to delete everything, and stop using social media to shame the girl, and it ends. Except of course the girl is scarred forever. Which doesn't stop another girl from being in this situation in another nearby school, a couple years later.

Happens all the time.

 

[seattlechiquita]

This is developing, but 4 more indictments are out: http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/25/justice/ohio-steubenville-rape-case/index.html

Belardine, McVey, and a school teacher and principal. None for Reno.

Was just reading the news. I am pleased there is movement in the case. This is a huge deal. I reckon they are still building the case against Reno/don't have enough evidence?

The bigger this becomes, the more of a dent it will make in the usually unscathed rape culture of high school football.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

It is good to see that justice is being done in this case...

anyone other than me wondering if Sheriff of Jefferson County in Ohio, Fred Abdalla, is on the list of those being investigated for not following due process of law?

:waitasec:

 

[CuriousGuy]

The elephant in the room, in my opinion, is everyone is trying to act like this doesn't happen ALL THE TIME. It's like the Lance Armstrong thing. Everyone acted so shocked and shaming, hello, all competitive bikers at that level dope. All of them.

This kind of thing goes on at every large high school, every couple years. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is an unusual case - football players get drunk at a party and a girl who wants to be popular has sex with them and then gets shamed when the story gets out and it's awful. And the coaches/principals give everyone a stern lecture to stop passing the photos around, they tell all the kids to delete everything, and stop using social media to shame the girl, and it ends. Except of course the girl is scarred forever. Which doesn't stop another girl from being in this situation in another nearby school, a couple years later.

Happens all the time.

It happens far too often but I think you are trivializing gang rape as "boys will be boys" by stating it happens "all the time". I played HS Football in the football adoring south and it never happened at my school or any other school in my area. Sure some girls "got" with some players for status reasons but never did I witness or hear about the disgusting behavior that not only occurred here but was condoned.

This (name your sport) is God and anything goes mentality is despicable and must stop. Holding the perps responsible, while abhorrent to those ingrained in the culture, is a great start. JMHO

 

[erik28]

The elephant in the room, in my opinion, is everyone is trying to act like this doesn't happen ALL THE TIME.... I don't know why everyone is acting like this is an unusual case - football players get drunk at a party and a girl who wants to be popular has sex with them and then gets shamed when the story gets out and it's awful.

To continue characterizing this situation as a girl having sex that she later regrets misses the boat and seems willfully dismissive on your part. I appreciate that you recognize that there is long-time scarring in these cases, but this was legally a case of rape that was prosecuted and the defendants in the case were found guilty of rape. They even apologized somewhat at their conviction & sentencing hearings.

 

[JeannaT]

It happens far too often but I think you are trivializing gang rape as "boys will be boys" by stating it happens "all the time". I played HS Football in the football adoring south and it never happened at my school or any other school in my area. Sure some girls "got" with some players for status reasons but never did I witness or hear about the disgusting behavior that not only occurred here but was condoned.

This (name your sport) is God and anything goes mentality is despicable and must stop. Holding the perps responsible, while abhorrent to those ingrained in the culture, is a great start. JMHO

I'm not dismissing anyone at all here. Anymore than I'm dismissing professional bikers for being cheaters and liars.

I'm saying, it seems either incredibly naive or we are, as a society, purposely ignoring that this is going on all over the country all the time. To pick out one particular high school, and one particular girl and set of boys, just seems almost schizophrenic in the way the public is reacting to this.

 

[erik28]

JeannaT, I apologize for assuming a motivation behind your statement. I still think that comparing this case with regretted sex minimizes the facts of rape and obscures the issue of consent that was clearly not available in this specific case.

To me, this media attention is working to make sure that we are aware that these kinds of cases are going on all the time all over the country. But I do also agree that it is possible as a culture that people in the US are intentionally ignoring this situation all the time.

 

[erik28]

The indictments from the grand jury are complex: http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/...tments-Issued-by-Steubenville-Special-Grand-J

Lynette Gorman relates to an April 12, 2012 date. McVey's evidence tampering, obstruction of justice, falsification and obstruction of official business charges span April 5, 2012 - November 19, 2013

In the press conference after the indictment release (live-streamed, I don't have a link), DeWine made it clear that the grand jury is done with the investigation and that it is unlikely that any other indictments related to the August 2012 rape of Jane Doe will be made. He did say that it was possible that new information coming out of the trials via these four indictments could identify other crimes, but while he clearly could not rule it out, such charges seemed to him to be very unlikely.

 

[JeannaT]

JeannaT, I apologize for assuming a motivation behind your statement. I still think that comparing this case with regretted sex minimizes the facts of rape and obscures the issue of consent that was clearly not available in this specific case.

To me, this media attention is working to make sure that we are aware that these kinds of cases are going on all the time all over the country. But I do also agree that it is possible as a culture that people in the US are intentionally ignoring this situation all the time.

Well, I also don't think it's the sex act that ruins these girls lives. I think it's the public reaction and the shunning and humiliation that follows that ruins them.

If there were the fewest pictures taken, and they weren't shared, and no one shunned the girls in this situation or made vulgar comments, and if afterward she was treated with respect in school and by the football team, there would be no issue whatsoever.

It's the public humiliation, after the fact, that seems to surprise these girls and makes their lives unbearable.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Well, I also don't think it's the sex act that ruins these girls lives. I think it's the public reaction and the shunning and humiliation that follows that ruins them.

If there were the fewest pictures taken, and they weren't shared, and no one shunned the girls in this situation or made vulgar comments, and if afterward she was treated with respect in school and by the football team, there would be no issue whatsoever.

It's the public humiliation, after the fact, that seems to surprise these girls and makes their lives unbearable.

What sex act? She was raped. Why are minimizing what happened? And I am pretty sure that there would be an issue, no matter what happened afterwards, because she was raped. There are millions of women who are raped, and don't suffer public humiliation from it, and, they are still affected by it. What is up with this victim blaming? Yup, it was just a sex act, and then when people started calling the girl a "*advertiser censored*" that's when she got upset by it, but she was fine before? Because you know passing out and multiple guys having their way with you...that's just a Friday night.

I saw before that you basically compared the girl to someone who wants to have sex with multiple member of the sports team. What is up with the victim blaming especially on a website like Websleuths? You do realize that a girl who is passed out can't consent?

 

[JeannaT]

Eileen, until we are willing to look at our society's problems unflinchingly we will never solve them.

We are not allowed to discuss information that didn't come from mainstream media on this board, which is a good thing.

But usually mainstream media misses huge truths. Because frankly, it's none of our business. So you end up, in a story like this, without the tools to understand the dynamics of what happened.

As with most incidents like this, this event started coming together LONG before the nigh where everything came to a head.

And if we don't acknowledge that - that along the way, attentive friends/parents/teachers/others had a chance to change the outcome for this group of young people before the night of Aug 11, 2012, then we miss the opportunity to spot it and head it off the next time it will happen.

And if we refuse to discuss the bigger picture - what the causes of this behavior are and how they can be stopped besides acting completely surprised and revolted when it happens - we are powerless to stop it.

That's not about blame. That's about not being surprised this happens, and where it happens, and to whom. That's about beginning to solve it.

 

[Tugela]

The 4 indictments can be read here.

Two of the indictments appear to relate to a different case that allegedly happened in April 2012 but the complaint was made only after the current case hit the news. I think that those cases are going to be difficult to prove in court because of that delay.

The remaining two indictments relate to this case, and are essentially failure to report (and in one instance including contributing to the delinquency of a minor, which I assume relates to supplying alcohol or something of that nature). The failure to report cases date to or just after the date of the incident, so it might be tough to prove that they knew that something had happened (as opposed to rumours).

 

[Snoods]

The elephant in the room, in my opinion, is everyone is trying to act like this doesn't happen ALL THE TIME. It's like the Lance Armstrong thing. Everyone acted so shocked and shaming, hello, all competitive bikers at that level dope. All of them.

This kind of thing goes on at every large high school, every couple years. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is an unusual case - football players get drunk at a party and a girl who wants to be popular has sex with them and then gets shamed when the story gets out and it's awful. And the coaches/principals give everyone a stern lecture to stop passing the photos around, they tell all the kids to delete everything, and stop using social media to shame the girl, and it ends. Except of course the girl is scarred forever. Which doesn't stop another girl from being in this situation in another nearby school, a couple years later.

Happens all the time.

Respectfully, I hope you are not trying to insinuate that this rape victim had consensual sex with the rapists to be popular, are you? I think that you must be, otherwise why bring this up? The two boys in this thread are convicted rapists. They raped her. All I can say is thank goodness they were dumb enough to film it and brag about it. This comes from the proud mother of a former high school football quarterback and basketball player. Who has never been convicted of rape, nor had any friends that were particularly rape-y.