I have been wondering if someone may have "unknowingly" helped him. If that would be the case....surely that person has come forward by now and LE is aware of it.
GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #4
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Leila
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New here. This case has intrigued me.
A few thoughts I have had that I haven't seen mentioned:
1. Is is possible that the dog just got out of the house during whatever was going on and ran off? I don't know much about dogs, but seems like some will get out and be gone for several days. I am hoping that maybe he/she just ran off and may be found in a few days.
2. Where was HIS car during all of this? I keep thinking that maybe his car was as the house (in the garage?) at the beginning of this and that he may have put Sarah in the trunk and left her there, instead of taking her all the way back to his house, while he took care of everyone else. Or that he ordered her to go and get in the truck or car under threat of hurting the family if she didn't. I seem to recall that is basically what happened to the Groene kids. Then he was able to control them by the fact that he had "control" of Sarah. Just something about the words used like "she was under his control" and "didn't leave of their own volition" and/or "under their own power".
3. Where was the mom during that day? Is it possible that somehow he was stalking her/them, she was near the university where the truck was found, he flagged her down for a ride home with some story (leaving his car in the area). She may have recognized him as the son of a neighbor and then they/he could have had a few beers at the house being social, until kids came home and whatever else happened. This would explain leaving her car on campus, he would have transferred to his car and driven home where he had already left Sarah. If they were hanging out then maybe mom mentioned that boyfriend wasn't going to be home that day and he saw an opportunity?
For those speculating how he got them under control, all he had to do was grab one of the children (probably Sarah). If he was in the house in a social way in an instant he could grab her, with a weapon or not, and be in complete control of the situation.
I really hope that it doesn't end up that any of them were in that house on Wed night when the police went by. That would be absolutely heartbreaking.
Going back to lurkdom now. Thanks for all the great information and great forum.
:Welcome-12-june: bubblesdoe! Excellent questions!
snapdragon
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Ok... here it goes... JMO, thinking aloud- trying not to sound negative, but this post is kinda negative, cause I have horrible feelings about this... Nowadays, you seem to get nothing out of LE, until after a conviction is secured. Saw that in the Sandra Cantu case- answers came afterward.
When the sheriff "struggled" for words like their own "volition" etc, I think they have a pretty good idea of what may have happened, but are watching their language for a future trial.
I really think this guy is nuts and a rage-aholic. I am beginning to agree with the idea that the women or one woman may have known him very casually. This is based on two things: Firstly, the mother said that he hasn't lived in that neighborhood for 2yrs, YET he was there a few days before the crime occurred. Secondly, according to the posts here (I didn't see the presser), it was said that Sarah first met MH WITH her MOTHER AND BROTHER on WEDNESDAY. Either the kids got home together to find the mother tied up and/or incapacitated, or they got home separately. My guess on that isn't pleasant either. Stephanie was due over there (prolly b4 kids got home, since her and Tina were to go apt hunting BEFORE Tina's shift). If that is the case, he may have just knocked her out (or worse) and put her somewhere. I am guessing that Tina had been injured and perhaps restrained in some way, while he WAITED for Sarah. She would have prolly done anything to cooperate because she knew her kids were coming home. During this ordeal, he was prolly amped up on some type of drug plus his mental instability, and was drinking excessively- hence the beercans. He could have easily taken Sarah to his place where he BOUND and GAGGED her (like he prolly did to at least a few of the others).
This is where I get a bit angry, if the reported facts are correct: If I understand correctly, the cops went to the house on Wed eve at the request of Tina's boss, saw the truck there, saw lights on, but got no answer at the door and left. If this is the case, I am very, very disappointed. The mgr at DQ asked for a WELFARE CHECK, and knocking on a door and leaving is not a welfare ck. Did the officer look in all the windows? Might he have seen blood if he had? I do not know the facts for sure, so I am not condemning anyone. but I'd like to know the reality of that first welfare ck. Seems like MH had free reign there for awhile... a sick, horrible thought.
Hopefully we will find out where those poor souls are. My gut tells me that his "apple of his eye" was Sarah, and the others were OBJECTS in his way. And a yappy little dog?((sorry! I love dogs, just thinking of how he might think!)) Hate, hate to say it, but that could've been dealt with in a few seconds. Poor, poor family. He should face capital punishment for his crimes so he doesn't end up on the street again, and no one else has to go through this.
When the sheriff "struggled" for words like their own "volition" etc, I think they have a pretty good idea of what may have happened, but are watching their language for a future trial.
I really think this guy is nuts and a rage-aholic. I am beginning to agree with the idea that the women or one woman may have known him very casually. This is based on two things: Firstly, the mother said that he hasn't lived in that neighborhood for 2yrs, YET he was there a few days before the crime occurred. Secondly, according to the posts here (I didn't see the presser), it was said that Sarah first met MH WITH her MOTHER AND BROTHER on WEDNESDAY. Either the kids got home together to find the mother tied up and/or incapacitated, or they got home separately. My guess on that isn't pleasant either. Stephanie was due over there (prolly b4 kids got home, since her and Tina were to go apt hunting BEFORE Tina's shift). If that is the case, he may have just knocked her out (or worse) and put her somewhere. I am guessing that Tina had been injured and perhaps restrained in some way, while he WAITED for Sarah. She would have prolly done anything to cooperate because she knew her kids were coming home. During this ordeal, he was prolly amped up on some type of drug plus his mental instability, and was drinking excessively- hence the beercans. He could have easily taken Sarah to his place where he BOUND and GAGGED her (like he prolly did to at least a few of the others).
This is where I get a bit angry, if the reported facts are correct: If I understand correctly, the cops went to the house on Wed eve at the request of Tina's boss, saw the truck there, saw lights on, but got no answer at the door and left. If this is the case, I am very, very disappointed. The mgr at DQ asked for a WELFARE CHECK, and knocking on a door and leaving is not a welfare ck. Did the officer look in all the windows? Might he have seen blood if he had? I do not know the facts for sure, so I am not condemning anyone. but I'd like to know the reality of that first welfare ck. Seems like MH had free reign there for awhile... a sick, horrible thought.
Hopefully we will find out where those poor souls are. My gut tells me that his "apple of his eye" was Sarah, and the others were OBJECTS in his way. And a yappy little dog?((sorry! I love dogs, just thinking of how he might think!)) Hate, hate to say it, but that could've been dealt with in a few seconds. Poor, poor family. He should face capital punishment for his crimes so he doesn't end up on the street again, and no one else has to go through this.
SuziQ
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I thought of that too and thought Ah geeze, I hope it wasn't his mom.
Kinda O/T I know someone who had their sweet senile old father drive them to fill out a job application at a bank. The son was really robbing the bank. Son was eventually arrested. Dad was ill and no one told him and I don't think he ever knew what he did. RIP Bill.
Leila
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I've noticed a few glitches with the forum tonight. For a while I couldn't access WS at all. I also noticed that posts that were on page 3 are now on page 2.
Logical thinking does not apply to this guy. I wouldn't even be surprised if he attacked the dog first. Anything is possible. Sarah has probably told police how it started and in due time this will be revealed. I agree that this guy could control the whole family by threatening a child, but then there is the blood that was found indicating an attack. I guess the blood is not Sarah's and unfortunately not from the creep either. JMO.
I have been thinking the same thing. MH supposedly worked as a tree trimmer, perhaps he did some work in this neighborhood, or in the areas around Wooster Rd, Coshocton Rd and Newcastle Rd - all areas/neighborhoods that are somewhat on-the-way from the Herrman/Sprang/mh parents residences to roads that lead to his house on Old Columbus Rd. For some reason I keep thinking of the movie Manhunter, nothing specific, but the similar idea of a perp watching a family (ies?), wanting what he sees, then devising a plan to get it. My gut feeling tells me mh had been watching for a long time and had already made some kind of contact, however cursory, like offering services for tree trimming, etc. Perhaps he had already performed some work in this neighborhood and he certainly could have driven by frequently and/or spied on the family at length considering his mom/stepdad live so close by.
Leila
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I believe it was stated in yesterday's presser by the sheriff. But, I could have misinterpreted what I thought I heard. I was having sound problems yesterday and strained to hear what was being said.
snapdragon
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I had to access with Firefox instead if Internet explorer. That worked for me... IE was choking on this site for some reason.
Soulmagent
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Anybody think they did a DNA test on the beer cans and got him pinned as the suspect from that? I dont know why that just popped in my head.
Also is the google earth map something we could compare a car from or was he not in the area then?
Also is the google earth map something we could compare a car from or was he not in the area then?
snapdragon
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Run of the mill DNA tests take 24-72 hrs. I can almost guarantee you that they have that data. There are new, in the field, forensic DNA tests that will soon be able to give data within an hour... The problem with 24-72hrs in most cases is that they have to release the perp from prison. But it could definitely help in cases like this as well. Very soon it will be as fast as fingerprint analysis ( am in the scientific field).
Soulmagent
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I know but thurday they found the beer cans, and sunday they are in his house.
I was wondering if that is how they knew where his was so quickly. A match in the system. He is a felon.
Lawd I hope they tested the beer cans....LE working this case seems to be pretty diligent and on top of their game. I'm STILL amazed how quickly they found the young girl and that she was alive. Dying to know how they knew to find her there.
I doubt it because they knew the girl was in his house. If they had DNA results from beer cans and no other information how would they know the girl was in his house as opposed to the other three people? I suspect somebody informed them the girl was in his house.
Soul125
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It's possible, but I would think that he would have to be a complete fool to leave his fingerprints at a crime scene where 4 people are missing. But there really is no telling with this guy. I don't think he would have intended to be caught that easily.
Leila
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Thanks SuzyQ!
I note the following in the article you linked:
"Herrmann, her children and Sprang disappeared Wednesday from Herrmann's home in nearby Howard. Barber has said blood indicating an injury had been found in Herrmann's home, where Sprang's vehicle was in the driveway."
We now have another place mentioned for where Stephanie's car was found. In the first reports it was in Tina's garage. In later reports it was in Stephanie's garage. Now, it's in Tina's driveway.
Only one of these reports can be accurate.................
snapdragon
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Yeah, I bet he is... prolly coming down off the drugs/alcohol.. best time to get them to talk. JMO!!!!
hndinglove
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has anyone in LE actually described the scene as "spattered"? to me, this reads like someone extrapolating facts that might not be true...
I don't like the looks of this quote. It says "blood spattered".
Soulmagent
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Point. unless they were watching for a few hours first. They have nifty toys but they still cant see though walls and basments so wonder who tipped them off. Facebook girl?
Has anyone heard how old the ex girlfriend of MH was?
And how old her kid is?
Wondering if Kody or sarah knew the ex's kid.
cluciano63
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Are you kidding me? How hard is it to find out where Stephanie's car was parked??
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